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Thread: Marilyn Manson

  1. #3331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prettybrokenspiral View Post
    Bingo.

    If Trent came out and vouched for Manson's last decade and said THEOL, Born Villain and Heaven Upside Down were huge influences when he was writing Hes Marks and the EP trilogy, the general attitude towards those albums would shift dramatically..
    Do you really think Trent would ever be influenced by any of these albums lol. They're not good

  2. #3332
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    I'm hugely interested in album sequencing. Where rampant speculation is concerned, I'm very interested by what the placement of "We Are Chaos" might indicate for the album as a whole. Second slots in Manson albums are often reserved for high-energy/high-groove pre-release or lead singles and they're usually much more accessible than the rest of the LP while being a fair representation of the overall aesthetic. This was less true for Pale Emperor—"Deep Six" was an aberration on the album, but probably the only likable thing on it for people who wanted more traditional Manson—and High End of of Low, which was an just an incredibly inconsistent record.

    "Cake & Sodomy"
    "The Beautiful People"
    "The Dope Show"
    "The Love Song"
    "mObscene"
    "Putting Holes in Happiness"
    "Pretty as a Swastika"
    "No Reflection"
    "Deep Six"
    "Tattooed in Reverse"

    My guess—based on nothing more than this, at present—is that the album is going to stick to something like this not overly complicated instrumentation, but that "We Are Chaos" isn't terribly indicative of the record as a whole. Though I am more intrigued now, thinking in these terms, by what "Red, Black, and Blue" will sound like. Are we going "Irresponsible Hate"/"Great Big White World" or "GodEatGod"/"The Boat Ride"?

  3. #3333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graz View Post
    Yep Iíve listened to the original countless times. I just remember everyone around here shitting on Mansonís version when it was released. I donít think many gave it a proper chance. Whatever.
    I assume, aside from your random trolls, most of the people who didn't give it a proper chance wouldn't waste the energy posting about it. I truly despised it. As a big fan of The Doors, I know I'm predisposed to be extra dubious about covers of them, but I really felt like it failed. I'm glad it worked for you, though.

    I thought their cover of "Five to One," though straightforward, was a great update. Fun. And the recent "God's Gonna Cut You Down" and "Stigmata" were better than a lot of the recent original songs. But "The End" feels...like a commissioned piece. Kinda without heart. This was my original response to it.

    But man, "The End" was upsetting. The instrumental is pretty sterile, which I think demands a way more inventive vocal performance. That's not there. The autotune on "walked on down the hall" is upsetting. I cannot wait until it's 2040 and we can all look back and say, "Jesus. Remember that decade where every song for some reason involved autotuned vocals of otherwise competent vocalists? I mean, to the point where it was far from being subversive or inventive and instead was just suddenly how 70% of a whole decade of music sounded? That was ridiculous." Yeah. I didn't need autotune in "The End." Weird choice.

    But for some reason, the thing that upsets me the most is that, during the climax of the song, he defuses the "Mother? I want to fuck you all night" by muttering "motherfucker" three or four times before getting to the, well, actual fucking of mother. There's no way to hear "The End" and not understand that that moment is supposed to be a particularly explosive moment of catharsis, so I'm not sure why you'd choose to undercut it by preempting it with "motherfucker." One would assume that Manson, also being a massive fan of The Doors, understands the structure of the original and I'd love to know what he thinks he's accomplishing by doing this. Literally, I'd like to know. It probably doesn't help that I'm a massive fan of the original song and the original film version of The Stand, the project I guess this is destined for. But geez. Again, weird choice, I say.

  4. #3334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I assume, aside from your random trolls, most of the people who didn't give it a proper chance wouldn't waste the energy posting about it. I truly despised it. As a big fan of The Doors, I know I'm predisposed to be extra dubious about covers of them, but I really felt like it failed. I'm glad it worked for you, though.

    I thought their cover of "Five to One," though straightforward, was a great update. Fun. And the recent "God's Gonna Cut You Down" and "Stigmata" were better than a lot of the recent original songs. But "The End" feels...like a commissioned piece. Kinda without heart. This was my original response to it.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I’m sorry if I somehow offended you or anyone else. Calling me a troll was completely unnecessary though. I’m just a fan and sometimes I get irked when I see people shitting on music of any band I enjoy. Hope you all enjoy the new record. Peace out.

  5. #3335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graz View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I’m sorry if I somehow offended you or anyone else. Calling me a troll was completely unnecessary though. I’m just a fan and sometimes I get irked when I see people shitting on music of any band I enjoy. Hope you all enjoy the new record. Peace out.
    No, no, no! I didn’t mean you were a troll! I’m so sorry for the confusion!

    What I meant was that it seemed to me that, largely, the people who didn’t like it seem to have given it a chance, except for random trolls who were shitposting. Not you! Not you!

  6. #3336
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    Sorry I misinterpreted your post, my bad, thought you were targeting me. No worries. Anyway, here’s the thing about Born Villain (not trolling I swear). I think this album was made to be listened to in an elevated state. It has this experimental dance-rock thing going on that just has a great groove throughout. Kinda like MM crossed with LCD Soundsystem or something. I’m not saying you have to be lit to enjoy it, but it seems that way for me.
    Last edited by Graz; 08-01-2020 at 06:49 PM.

  7. #3337
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    I had the opposite reaction. If I'm "lit" while listening to Born Villain, I find it incredibly boring and tedious to sit through. The recordings sound flat and lifeless. I love Twiggy but his guitar playing is just average. He can play rhythm but all of his lead stuff is uninteresting noodling. The performances on every track feel half-assed. The vocals and lyrics are the same cliche, play-on-words, "look how clever I am" bullshit he's been doing since Golden Age (also the EXTREME repetition of phrases is so ridiculously lazy!). Born Villain should have been shelved or given away as a demo. I can mostly look past the worst aspects of the post-Manson as a band records but Born Villain... is so fucking cringe! Believe me I have tried so many times to listen with a open mind. I can't make it past "Pistol Whip" without feeling embarrassed. I will never understand how so many of Manson's fanbase loathes Eat Me, Drink Me while praising BV. EMDM is a campy Halloween version of Mechanical Animals. Born Villain is pure trash.

    I also miss when Marilyn Manson was a band and not just a person.

  8. #3338
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    Quote Originally Posted by rampface View Post
    The recordings sound flat and lifeless. I love Twiggy but his guitar playing is just average. He can play rhythm but all of his lead stuff is uninteresting noodling. The performances on every track feel half-assed. The vocals and lyrics are the same cliche, play-on-words, "look how clever I am" bullshit he's been doing since Golden Age (also the EXTREME repetition of phrases is so ridiculously lazy!). Born Villain should have been shelved or given away as a demo. I can mostly look past the worst aspects of the post-Manson as a band records but Born Villain... is so fucking cringe! Believe me I have tried so many times to listen with a open mind. I can't make it past "Pistol Whip" without feeling embarrassed. I will never understand how so many of Manson's fanbase loathes Eat Me, Drink Me while praising BV. EMDM is a campy Halloween version of Mechanical Animals. Born Villain is pure trash.
    I feel mostly the same way, though I think the record is largely just extremely lifeless and forgettable and not, generally speaking, outright objectionable. During the run-up to its release, Manson and Twiggy on multiple occasions, I believe, suggested that it was a more "punk rock Mechanical Animals." I'm curious, does anyone actually get that vibe from it? I'm more in-line with your take that Eat Me, Drink Me is a campy Halloween Mechanical, though I'd never before thought of that I'd be hard-pressed to name anything about Born Villain that reminds me of that record.

  9. #3339
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    Born Villain doesn’t remind me of any other album, it sounds unique in his catalog. Maybe that’s why I’m drawn to it. It doesn’t really trigger the same kind of emotional response like the many albums before it did. I can just vibe with it and it’s cool for me. I know it’s not for everyone.

  10. #3340
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    Quote Originally Posted by rampface View Post
    Do you really think Trent would ever be influenced by any of these albums lol. They're not good
    Trent was absolutely feeling impressed when he heard "I Want To Murder You Like They Do In The Movies" who could have thought someone could make a 9 minutes long song that is so empty and totally undeserving of its lenght? Really impressive way to let down the listener in a huge way!

    Goddamn, I really do hate this album so much lol.

  11. #3341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prettybrokenspiral View Post
    Bingo.

    If Trent came out and vouched for Manson's last decade and said THEOL, Born Villain and Heaven Upside Down were huge influences when he was writing Hes Marks and the EP trilogy, the general attitude towards those albums would shift dramatically..
    Seeing how people still think "Lulu" from Metallica/Lou Reed is terrible even when Bowie himself praised it I don't think so. I don't think people would be willing to like something just cause their favorite artist liked it or was even inspired it, that would be pretty sheepy, frankly.

    And like others have mentioned, I don't see what Trent could be inspired by? It's not like Manson was making any unique music here or something we haven't heard from other bands before, I don't know what Manson did on THEOL for anyone to feeel inspired in any capacity.

  12. #3342
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Seeing how people still think "Lulu" from Metallica/Lou Reed is terrible even when Bowie himself praised it I don't think so. I don't think people would be willing to like something just cause their favorite artist liked it or was even inspired it, that would be pretty sheepy, frankly.

    And like others have mentioned, I don't see what Trent could be inspired by? It's not like Manson was making any unique music here or something we haven't heard from other bands before, I don't know what Manson did on THEOL for anyone to feeel inspired in any capacity.
    I've listened to a lot of stuff that Trent was influenced by and stuff that he's influenced. I like about half. About all his involvement does is suggest to me I should maybe give something a spin. I can't imagine most rational adults being so cult of personality about something like that.

  13. #3343
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    Quote Originally Posted by rampface View Post
    Do you really think Trent would ever be influenced by any of these albums lol. They're not good
    You're missing the point. Trent would likely not be influenced by any of these albums, no..

    But, if he was, or had he produced any of them, people here who always complain about them would have a much different attitude towards them.

    Let's say, for instance, Trent had produced Born Villain and said at the time "We set out to strip ourselves of any fears or inhibitions of what the audience might think and came up with this gloriously challenging record that's not very immediate and really forces you to spend time with it, peeling back the layers and getting in touch with the heaviness and the violence of the music and the lyrics we achieved here. Me and Brian are really proud of this work and it exceeded our expectations. We hope someone out there hears this and feels what we felt when this was being made.."

    People would touting that record like it was ACSS for the modern era. Guaranteed..

  14. #3344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prettybrokenspiral View Post
    You're missing the point. Trent would likely not be influenced by any of these albums, no..

    But, if he was, or had he produced any of them, people here who always complain about them would have a much different attitude towards them.

    Let's say, for instance, Trent had produced Born Villain and said at the time "We set out to strip ourselves of any fears or inhibitions of what the audience might think and came up with this gloriously challenging record that's not very immediate and really forces you to spend time with it, peeling back the layers and getting in touch with the heaviness and the violence of the music and the lyrics we achieved here. Me and Brian are really proud of this work and it exceeded our expectations. We hope someone out there hears this and feels what we felt when this was being made.."

    People would touting that record like it was ACSS for the modern era. Guaranteed..
    I don't think so. It's not like anyone here has formed their opinions about those albums because TR didn't produce them, or because he said anything negative about them. So far as I know he's said nothing. Folks just don't like them very much. In general, I don't think peoples' tastes here are so governed by the whims of TR - don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan, but I like plenty of stuff that I know he doesn't care for, and he's recommended plenty of things which aren't my bag. I'd imagine most others here are similar.

    And the counterfactual you're trying to entertain isn't very illuminating: if TR had produced those albums, they would have been very different, and he certainly wouldn't have been influenced by them unless they'd have been very different. So, what we're effectively being asked to entertain is that if those albums were very different - better, essentially - then more people would like them and fewer people would dump on them. Well duh.
    Last edited by Tom; Yesterday at 04:03 AM.

  15. #3345
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    Do people like 2wo album because Trent produced it? Didn't think so

  16. #3346
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    Do people like 2wo album because Trent produced it? Didn't think so
    Hey, I actually paid for that album not once but twice. And it’s...still...not good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    Do people like 2wo album because Trent produced it? Didn't think so
    I don't really like Niggy Stadust, at all, really.

    Not only Trent produced that, but he also performs on plenty of the songs, a lot of the tracks are Fragile outtakes (I like those on ther own just don't like their usage here) and Trent has not only written down a statement about the album but also about specific tracks which is rare for him to do.

    So, I don't think Trent's lack of involevement has anything to do with people's reception here of Manson's recent music. Maybe people would indeed be more forigving, perhaps first influences would be little bit more biased, but I don't think it would make such a big difference as Prettybrokenspiral claims.

  18. #3348
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    I don't really like Niggy Stadust, at all, really.
    Funny, it was good enough to get me into Saul Williams, but now it's my least favorite of his albums! Volcanic Sunlight is a masterpiece tho

  19. #3349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I feel mostly the same way, though I think the record is largely just extremely lifeless and forgettable and not, generally speaking, outright objectionable. During the run-up to its release, Manson and Twiggy on multiple occasions, I believe, suggested that it was a more "punk rock Mechanical Animals." I'm curious, does anyone actually get that vibe from it? I'm more in-line with your take that Eat Me, Drink Me is a campy Halloween Mechanical, though I'd never before thought of that I'd be hard-pressed to name anything about Born Villain that reminds me of that record.
    Manson always promote a new record comparing to some classic of his own (new one being a exception I guess), even though isn't even 1/4 closer. Even when he was a music journalist he made a review about his band which didn't even had something done, that's how he launched his music career so I'm kind of surprised people didn't realized yet he's kind of a compulsive liar.

  20. #3350
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    Portrait of an American Family is by far the biggest shitbomb of any Manson record ever and the one I spin least. Irony is Trent had a hand in that one (not nearly as much as ACSS which is basically a NIN record with Brian on vocals). I will take Eat Me Drink Me or High End of Low ANY day of the week over Portrait. Portrait is a cool scare mommy and daddy shock rock record when you are in 8th grade...Its basically like a GWAR record....I outgrew that album by the time I turned 14.....At least EMDM and THEOL he tried to stop shocking people and just focused on music...which is all I ever wanted from Brian Warner....Just focus on the music
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell; Yesterday at 07:27 PM.

  21. #3351
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    Quote Originally Posted by firewlker View Post
    Manson always promote a new record comparing to some classic of his own (new one being a exception I guess), even though isn't even 1/4 closer. Even when he was a music journalist he made a review about his band which didn't even had something done, that's how he launched his music career so I'm kind of surprised people didn't realized yet he's kind of a compulsive liar.
    To be fair, many bands do this. Deftones, for example, often like to compare their current latest LP to White Pony.

  22. #3352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Portrait of an American Family is by far the biggest shitbomb of any Manson record ever and the one I spin least. Irony is Trent had a hand in that one (not nearly as much a ACSS which is basically a NIN record with Brian on vocals). I will take Eat Me Drink Me or High End of Low ANY day of the week over Portrait. Portrait is a cool scare mommy and daddy shock rock record when you are in 8th grade...Its basically like a GWAR record....I outgrew that album by the time I turned 14.....At least EMDM and THEOL he tried to stop shocking people and just focused on music...which is all I ever wanted from Brian Warner....Just focus on the music
    To me POAAF is kinda overrated. There's some songs I like from it but it always comes to my mind that POAAF actually it's the last Spooky Kids album while ACSS being officially Marilyn Manson debut record, even though POAAF doesn't have the 'Spooky Kids' on the name. Even considering that POAAF demos X final product doesn't really change that much in comparison of ACSS demos X final product.

    And maybe what I'm about to say now it's unpopular opinion or not but: Reznor production skills shines a lot on his own material (NIN, HTDA, scores) but besides some little exceptions, it lacks a lot on other people work.

    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    To be fair, many bands do this. Deftones, for example, often like to compare their current latest LP to White Pony.
    There's a lot of Manson words that made me wrote that line about he being a compulsive liar, but I don't want to extend much about that. But also you're pretty right on yours too.

  23. #3353
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    To be fair, many bands do this. Deftones, for example, often like to compare their current latest LP to White Pony.
    "Ignore your initial impressions! This is exactly like 'xyz', you picky fuck!" (I know it's going to seem like I'm picking on you...)

    The latest song is pretty much 5/10 material. I would rather that Manson release a dark/alt country record at this point, but yawn. Those people (not you) trying to legitimize his current dirge via discounting his past are 100% off.

    "That record is sequenced by Trent Reznor, you biased fuck!"

  24. #3354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Portrait of an American Family is by far the biggest shitbomb of any Manson record ever and the one I spin least. Irony is Trent had a hand in that one (not nearly as much a ACSS which is basically a NIN record with Brian on vocals). I will take Eat Me Drink Me or High End of Low ANY day of the week over Portrait. Portrait is a cool scare mommy and daddy shock rock record when you are in 8th grade...Its basically like a GWAR record....I outgrew that album by the time I turned 14.....At least EMDM and THEOL he tried to stop shocking people and just focused on music...which is all I ever wanted from Brian Warner....Just focus on the music
    Quote Originally Posted by firewlker View Post
    To me POAAF is kinda overrated. There's some songs I like from it but it always comes to my mind that POAAF actually it's the last Spooky Kids album while ACSS being officially Marilyn Manson debut record, even though POAAF doesn't have the 'Spooky Kids' on the name. Even considering that POAAF demos X final product doesn't really change that much in comparison of ACSS demos X final product.
    Boy. I can't deny that this is a very different and more Spooky Kids- than Mr. Manson-toned record, but I don't think I'd ever be able to call it a "shitbomb."

    It's...either less serious or more stupid about its seriousness? It's a more working class version of a lot of his ideas? Before he added layers of pretense and numerological/pseudohistorical scaffolding? I didn't need to use Alta Vista to understand the Kabbalah and Anton LaVey to make my way through the liner notes. It's juvenile, but I think part of that is by design. There's a definite focus on shock value, yes, and probably sometimes to the detriment of the music. But the instrumentals are solid, if not at all innovative and rather cliched, mostly thanks to Daisy.

    Does it stand up today? I guess if I play it now, I sort of look at it my version of my fifty-year-old friends spinning Scorpions or Guns 'n' Roses. I'm not claiming it's a musical achievement, but I think it's still a fun rock album.

    I've never heard this take from a Manson fan and now I really wish I could make it so this wasn't the record that made me fall in love with the band; I'm not sure how objective I can be on this one. When it was all I had, back in '94/'95, it was awesome and important; even by the time Antichrist ​came out, it might have been too steeped in nostalgia for me to get a clear look at all its faults.

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    I absolutely <3 POAAF. Never even heard of Manson or his band prior to hearing them open up for NIN in Madison November 1994. Fun fact: Jim Rose Circus was actually the “band” before NIN, MM was the third band in that bill. Manson and the band blew me away that evening, and I have a really hard time getting into live acts that I’ve never heard recording of before. The rawness of Portrait is avoidable trait for me. And yes, nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

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    Portrait is a classic. It was actually the 3rd album I got after ACS & SLC. I spun it regularly for a close to a decade, it will always play some part of my rotation, no mater how old I get.

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    Potrait is a goofy album that is like halloween shlock combined with spooky whatever.. it's a really fun album. I remember when I first heard Antichrist Superstar and i was annoyed with how serious he was taking himself.

    I guess that's kind of a lost perspective at this point. I still think everything up through Mechanical Animals is really good, but nothing after that does much for me.

    And even though I love Mechanical Animals on a lot of levels, the lyric "as hollow as the O in god" is the dumbest shit ever. You have to try to come up with something that fucking dumb.
    Last edited by Jinsai; Yesterday at 08:03 PM.

  28. #3358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    I remember when I first heard Antichrist Superstar and i was annoyed with how serious he was taking himself.
    Yes. It didn't hit me at first because, when it dropped, I was a ravenous sixteen-year-old very caught up in the aura of Manson, but this was, in part, how I came to feel about Antichrist. It's fucking greatódon't think I'm saying anything elseóbut it was sort of a shock to see, with maybe the exception of "Wormboy," that Manson had entirely lost its spirit of play. And I was probably pretty forgiving of that for a lot of reasons, but not least because "Wormboy" is the worst song on the record. And also, coincidentally, the only one written mostly by Daisy if I remember correctly (though he shares a credit with Twiggy for it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    the lyric "as hollow as the O in god" is the dumbest shit ever. You have to try to come up with something that fucking dumb.
    Ha! I really like that line!

  29. #3359
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    Do people like 2wo album because Trent produced it? Didn't think so
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyeurs_(album)

    Nine Inch Nails' Trent Reznor receives executive-producer credit, with the actual production duties being handled by Bob Marlette and Skinny Puppy's Dave Ogilvie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
    I absolutely <3 POAAF. Never even heard of Manson or his band prior to hearing them open up for NIN in Madison November 1994. Fun fact: Jim Rose Circus was actually the “band” before NIN, MM was the third band in that bill. Manson and the band blew me away that evening, and I have a really hard time getting into live acts that I’ve never heard recording of before. The rawness of Portrait is avoidable trait for me. And yes, nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
    This is a shot in the dark. But does anyone remember the music they played on the speakers between the acts? It was like spooky circus music or whatever. It has always stuck with me, but I have no idea what it was or if it was played at every venue of the tour.

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