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Faceplams: Honestly, he's been doing "this" for quite a while. Personally, I've felt that way about just about every video he's put out since the Heart Shaped Glasses video.Originally Posted by HWB
Active Member
Honestly, he's been doing "this" for quite a while. Personally, I've felt that way about just about every video he's put out since the Heart Shaped Glasses video.
Throbbing Member
Manson is a very close friend to Johnny Deep, this does not surprise me one bit, him being in the video
Active Member
Admittedly, I just skimmed the video - but I didn't find anything "shocking" about it. Just kind of yawned, really. The only problem I had with it is Depp...I just wish people would stop employing him.
I've had the album on in the background this morning for a first listen, and nothing has grabbed my attention. Sounds like a super generic, easy to forget rock album that doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
I thought it parts of it were visually pretty interesting. Best scenes were the dichotomy of MM and Depp sitting across from each other with the big contrasting color scheme. That being said, it is still sort of dull, you've gotta admit. Lyrics are awful, song is forgetful, chorus sucks. *shrugs*
Stubby Member
other than "blood honey" this is one of the more boring manson albums....actually, they've all been pretty blah for years now. its too bad, back in his prime his album releases were events. id hear things id never heard before, layers, atmospheres, guitars, drums, syths all working in perfect harmony with the lyrics to create something really unique. Now its just....lame. the loss of a true cohesive band killed his/their sound.
The Virus Inside
I thought the video was entertaining. Not the best he's ever done, but one of his best videos in a looooong time.
I looked at the comments on the video, and everyone outside of ETS is like "OMG, Best video!" and "Manson is back!!"
Maybe the ETS crowd really is a bit too harsh on him, lol.
Still, with all that said, the song does suck. This song is one of the worst on the record. It's very monotone and doesn't really build up to anything or go anywhere.
Hairy Member
Finally heard the Saturnalia song after all the talk of comparisons and man like I don't know if he had a moment like A Warm Place where nobody during production caught onto how close it is to Bauhaus but man, once that part :30-1:00 in happens, I could not believe how similar it was, like a Vanilla Ice moment haha.
While he's now got his new album out, etc. I can't help but revisit ACSS instead. Thematically it feels very relevant to right now politically and socially and like it could have been written today. The song 1996 could have been called 2016 basically and the timing of it is interesting as it was 20 years ago and I can remember some old interview he did at the time, or maybe in his book, where he talked about the album as foreshadowing future events. While I'm not exactly saying he's Nostradamus I do find the concepts in ACSS (and probably the whole tryptich for that matter) all too close to things going on. I wonder if he's talked about the album in any recent press and its relevancy to current events as it seems like something he'd bring up.
Throbbing Member
I didn't watch the video yet, but I just finished listening to the album. Definitely not his best, but still decent for a latter-day Manson album.
Am I the only one who's noticing that the Manson band hasn't really been much of a band since The Golden Age Of Grotesque era? I haven't seen many recent full band photos, and the last time the full band appeared in a music video was five years ago... as silhouettes in the background behind Manson. I think the album could have used some involvement from Twiggy, one of the main composers of the Triptych albums (along with Pogo, who's not exactly on the best terms with Manson) since Triptych-style seems to be what people think Manson was aiming for this time. This marks two consecutive albums with the studio band being pretty much just Manson with Tyler Bates composing all the music and playing almost all the instruments besides drums (which worked for The Pale Emperor, but that was a very different album).
I sometimes forget that I'm not the only Manson fan on this board when I read all the posts that pretty much translate into "Manson is an abomination (especially live)" and sometimes hammer in that Trent Reznor is better in every way, but I still consider this to be one of his weaker albums. Might need a few more listens, but it's best not to compare it to his old stuff despite returning to the darker, more industrial style.
EDIT: Yeah, the video is kinda crappy. Repetitive fetish video that could be mistaken for a porn flick. Tyler Bates (I think) sits in with Manson just to lip sync the chorus and imply that he's pretty much replaced Twiggy as Manson's right-hand man. That pretty much sums up the video. By no means his best video, which might be one of his Mechanical Animals era videos ("The Dope Show", "I Don't Like The Drugs", or "Coma White"; "Rock Is Dead" isn't it because it's just a performance video).
EDIT 2: Ignore the Tyler part, not that the video would have made much difference if either Tyler or Twiggy appeared in place of Johnny.
(And is it just me, or does ETS not have a "strike through" like the nin.com forums had?)
Last edited by Patrick_Nicholas; 10-10-2017 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Watched the video after making my initial post
Stubby Member
Tyler Bates is not in the SAY10 music video.
Active Member
Guy who hits women and Marilyn Manson wiggle around naked girls for 6 minutes.
A R T
Unintelligible Whispering
I would venture that the reason ETS is harsher on Manson is perhaps because of the overlap of longtime NIN/MM fans concentrated here that go back to the glory days. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd say yeah, my modern-day disappointment is probably informed by actively being a fan during what I perceive as the good old days.
I don't want to boil it down to "new generations of fans don't understand what it was like to be around in our day" but...sometimes I wonder if the situation is close. I didn't love him because he "shocked", I loved him because he was a provocative, intelligent counter-cultural force that took the world by storm and it was impossible to not be aware of the band's existence during that period. Because I lived through that, it's impossible for me to look at him now and see anything but a guy running around pointlessly flaunting explicit imagery for its own sake. He's not challenging anyone's notions or ideals, just trash-talking and throwing toilet paper like a little rapscallion. And without the benefit of a slew of insanely talented musicians to back him up anymore.
Honestly, In order for him to be fully living up to the legend and the impression that he left on me in my younger years, not only would he have to be producing top-notch, challenging albums, he'd probably also have to be, I dunno, taking on religious fundamentalism on all fronts, running for office, staging unannounced musical protests in public places, getting arrested, and being an active cultural force again all while doing so. And I know those are lofty and ridiculously unrealistic expectations to have. :P
But I'd be happy just having good music. I once gave so much of a shit that I still hold out hope every time, for at least that, and so I'm always one of the first to check in and the first to find myself frequently disappointed.
Throbbing Member
Shit. I thought that was him. Did a Google image search and found out it was Johnny fucking Depp of all people. Damn, I'm out of the loop.
\
EDIT: Oh, now I see the posts stating it was Johnny! I'm ABSOLUTELY out of the loop.
Last edited by Patrick_Nicholas; 10-10-2017 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Fuck, I'm stupid. I obviously didn't read most of the posts on this page before posting.
Stubby Member
Manson's albums are always kind of weird for me. I never really listened to him, even when I started becoming a big Nine Inch Nails fan. I didn't really tear into his discography until a few years later. (It was at that turn of millenium point, so I'm one of those weird fans that my first NIN/MM albums were WT & EMDM, so I was more familiar with Golden Age than with Antichrist Superstar.)
Every album since EMDM (which I was REALLY into) I've always kind of heard it and been like "Huh, well that was a thing." They tend to grow on me, though, some more than others (I felt Born Villain was a VERY weird album when I first heard it, and it's never really grabbed me as much, though I do listen to it on occasion, The Pale Emperor however, I listen to rather regularly, probably about once a week.)
I feel like this one is going to be like that. I'm just going to listen to it occasionally and get "used" to it.
I can see Saturnalia and KILL4ME being on my regular listen list, but other than that it just seems to be more Manson. Which isn't a bad thing, per se, because I like his style regardless but I feel like a proper re-invention is needed. The Pale Emperor was getting close, as was Eat Me Drink Me, but this honestly feels like a slight step backwards.
Last edited by GrayscaleRain; 10-10-2017 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Edited to be easier to read.
Stubby Member
That song was terrible. You guys weren't kidding when you said his voice was shot.
Also,
Stubby Member
This album has grown on me a bit. About half the songs are pretty good when listened to on their own but the others make a full album listen unbearable. The lyrics are simply too terrible and the production is not saving it. Perhaps Manson should have spent more time on writing lyrics or just cut the fat and released this as an EP or something. My revised track-listing would be something like
1. Tattooed In Reverse
2. Say 10
3. Kill4Me
4. Blood Honey
5. Threats of Romance
Honorable mention/bonus track: 6. Saturnalia aka Bela lugosi's Dead
Stubby Member
I was excited to see Manson with his contact lense back on in the new video, he hasn't worn them in years. Kind of like Trent wearing leather and gloves again, awesome throwback to the good old days before Manson started doing too many drugs and Trent started having too many kids...LOL
The Virus Inside
Manson has officially cancelled the rest of his North American leg and was pulled from the Aftershock festival.
https://www.facebook.com/AftershockF...type=3&theater
Looks like no MM/TR surprise... Maybe it was destiny trying to prevent a gong-show in the making.
Hope TR has something else up his sleeve as a backup surprise now.
Banned
Try listening to the shitshow that is Born Villain right after listening to Heaven Upside Down... it makes "HUD" look like a fucking masterpiece...
Active Member
Was this just some weird ETS wet dream, or did someone in the know actually make some clear hints at this happening?
Administrator
Yes. In fact, ETS was having a similar dream about NIN/Ministry surprise at the previous festival and Trent responded to that at Q&A session (telling us to forget it).
Throbbing Member
I find myself enjoying Heaven Upside Down more than The Pale Emperor.
Even with the unforgivably cringeworthy lyrics and the Bauhaus cover.
I concede that I have horrible taste in music.
Stubby Member
Hey, Cruel World..., No Reflection, Overneath the Path of Misery, Slo-Mo-Tion, The Flowers of Evil - 5 favorites out of 13 is a decent album to me, I never listen to the other songs because they are pretty awful but these 5 songs are some of my all time favorite Manson songs.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
I listened to Born Villain once and legit never again. Couldn't tell you the lyrics from a single song, except that No Reflection just because the chorus is so cheesy haha. THEOL had a few tracks I dug...the extended version of the first track Devour IIRC was pretty good...sure it had lyrics like 'a big bottle of big, big pills' (lmao) but that extended ending was pretty cool. A few other tracks as well...but that's probably the problem. Back in the day no songs were skippable. Now everyone has to point out 'well at least the song ______ doesn't suck!'
Matador de Froot Loops
Wouldn't go that far, the video is alright but far from "the best".
Still, i liked it a lot, at least he's trying harder on the videos, i don't get the hate, it's not like it's any different from Manson's previous vids, the song it's Ok, i don't love but i don't hate.
Throbbing Member
Looks like some people have never watched "The Dope Show".
Or are we referring to his post-Triptych videos?
Matador de Froot Loops
Of course i watched "The Dope Show" (great homage to Jodorowsky), i wasn't comparing "Say 10" to it, i was just saying he's trying harder like in the old days (but of course any video from the ACSS or even the "Portrait..." era are miles away...)
Of course "Say 10" is one of the best of the "post-Triptych era" and i can even compare it to "Long hard road out of hell" (because of the sex-fetish-spooky vibe), but as i said: it doesn't hold a candle to any of the classic vids, but it makes me glad that at least he's trying harder on his visuals and concept...
Banned
Aside from his voice being shot and the songs seemingly being half baked, it just seemed like he was trying too hard to do Antichrist Superstar Part 2 and be "shocking" rather than branch out and experiment (esp after Eat Me Drink Me and THEOL where he put the whole image aside and tried new shit)...Thats why Pale Emperor was so applauded, because the dude put aside the shock rock schtick and focused on music...and why HUD is a step back because once again hes trying too hard to be shocking...with that said, I put on EMDM last night for the first time in years...and actually dug it..Aside from a couple awful songs (if i was a vampire and the evan rachel wood song heart shaped glasses) theres some cool shit on there.
House Always Wins
I love every song minus Are You the Rabbit? I have never liked that song, lyrically or musically. Feels like a bad instrumentation of Danzig’s She Rides.
I can even like Mutilation on most spins. Title track is amazing and I love Putting Holes In Happiness...that riff.
Stubby Member
Hey Cruel World is one of my all time favorites.
Stubby Member
Hey Cruel World... was a great opener for that record. I don't quite get all the hate Born Villain gets. I thought it was a pretty solid record and if he would write more songs like 'The Gardner' I would be fn thrilled. Love that song.
