PIG - and Other Raymond Watts Projects

[THE JOHNNY ROOK]

It has been 8 years since the last Pig album, Raymond Watts is back! Can't stop listening to this.



Any fans here of Pig here? Really looking forward for more information and will keep this updated.

[aggroculture]

PIG is awesome and Sinsation is one of my all-time industrial faves.
But Pigmartyr/Pigmata was truly horrible.
Hope the next one is better.

[DVYDRNS]

I love Pig. but he needs to stick with the sampling and orchestration to really keep his fans salivating. this new track lacks both of these prerequisites.

but i do hope he is doing well.

[Space Suicide]

Oh shit, PIG!

Sinsation is a true 1990's Industrial staple. I fucking love Raymond Watts, I have his entire discography. He's such a talented multi-instrumentalist and visionary. I also love his look and his physical aesthetic as far as imagery and such goes.

Praise the Lard and A Stroll In the Pork are amazing as well.

His time in KMFDM was stellar too. Nihil was a fucking bombastic record. <3

[ManBurning]

That song is AWESOME!! Been a while since a song grabbed me at first listen like that!
I can't seem to find any information on a so called new album with this track on it though... not sure if this is a one-off track he just threw on the internet or what.

[sayyosin]

This made my day. PIG <3

[BlueCalx]

It is, at this point, basically a one-off track he threw on the internet. Watts has been working in the studio with Marc Heal from Cubanate off and on this year, but as he's basically a stay-at-home father these days his usual glacial production pace is slowed even further. New music and touring are not major priorities for him. Further, his lunatic behaviour in the '90s and early '00s burnt his bridges for good with a lot of his old collaborators, Sascha Konietzko among them. The people who are willing to work with him, like Marc Heal, Gunter Schulz and En Esch, aren't exactly known for their disciplined approaches to making art.

Like everyone else in the thread, I'd love to hear new music out of Watts. Wrecked is a thrilling record, loud and bombastic and funny and brutal. Sadly, it's the sort of album that doesn't get made anymore. Remember the '90s, people? This magical period in time when music was making so much money that it was totally cool for a record label to invest *NSync-level money in a fucking symphonic industrial rock album made by a guy who drinks like a fish and does more dope than Keith Richards? Now can you imagine doing that now?

Watts is a favourite of mine, much to the chagrin of my girlfriend. His style is totally unique in his genre; who else has ever made music that dabbles in metal, rock, jazz, trance, and classical composition while still remaining reasonably cohesive? Who else has provided anything that approaches the insane, aggressive wall of sound maximalism that grade-A Pig music does? Watts, though, is a terribly frustrating musician to follow. He's such a lazy songwriter that he often skirts self-parody. My friends and I have a "write Pig lyrics" game where we start off with, say, "I am the poison that lines the rim/ the core of hate you hide within/ you are the toxins in my spine/ the final dose that kills the mind" and then pass the mic. And yeah, when he's not collaborating with good people, we end up with half-baked crap like Pigmata. He's been kicked off tours for his rockstar antics and at one point he lost all his money to a mysterious con man who used the assumed name "Martin Eden". He's basically the new Brian Wilson. I love his stuff to death, but for the sake of my sanity I've learned not to expect much from him.

If you saw him at the WaxTrax! Retrospectacle, though, you'd have to admit that he's still got it.

[blassster]

I LOVE PIG. Thanks for the song link Johnny, never knew. Anyone else order one of the limited-run shirts from last year from http://www.theswining.com?

[Sebek]

His style is totally unique in his genre; who else has ever made music that dabbles in metal, rock, jazz, trance, and classical composition while still remaining reasonably cohesive? Who else has provided anything that approaches the insane, aggressive wall of sound maximalism that grade-A Pig music does?

Foetus does. As much as I agree 100% with everything else you said, J.G. Thirlwell is very much in the same vein. Not that I enjoy him nearly as much as Pig but he's done quality stuff I've come to appreciate (especially recently, IMO -- kind of the opposite of Watts).

For a very long time Pig was one of my absolute favorite artists, and then came a slow and steady series of disappointments. Loved seeing him play with KMFDM, but years later when he finally got to doing actual <Pig> shows in that last small tour he did I'm sad to say it was a bit of a let down. Seemed as though he just didn't have the support... samples were missing, his female backup singer bailed, etc. And then there's the newer material which pales in comparison to the sprawling epics he used to create. Back in the 90's the songs he made weren't just catchy and had good hooks, they were fucking masterfully composed, extremely layered and detailed. I'd love if he could tap back into that again.

[THE JOHNNY ROOK]

I love his "old" sound too but also loved Pigmata. Why the hate for that album (Pigmata)? Genuine American Monster started the trend of venturing there and Pigmata capitalized on it. Thought it was solid all around.

I do miss his old sound but that is like complaining how The Slip was no Downward Spiral. See where I am going with this statement? Artists evolve, except me, I have still been painting the same portraits of my old home room teacher and mailing them to him.

I tried finding my Sinsation album today (I bought at a pawnshop over 10 years ago for $5), but it is lost! So I rocked Praise the Lard instead!

Also thanks Sebek for bringing up Foetus. Steriod Maximus (Watts and Thirlwell together, wut?) those were the days.

[Radiovoyr]

I dig the hell out of this track, it has that Pig swagger that I miss so much in new KMFDM albums. Kind of refreshing to hear this sort of guitar work done right. I guess I am out of the loop, what exactly happened between Raymond and Sascha?

[Space Suicide]

This thread made me revisit his discography today, favorites:









BONUS!:

[THE JOHNNY ROOK]

I have been on a Pig binge lately, this is probably my favorite cover of any song, just something about it.

[blassster]

You can buy some digital tracks at The Swining that don't appear on any CD, some of them were created post-pigmata. I like those old Pig Orchestra covers too. Looks like there may be some XL, 2XL, 3XL sizes left of those PIG shirts, unless they just forgot to update that post on the main front page. Other than that I don't think there's much we can do to give more support, though I think they added some albums on iTunes/Amazon in mp3 form within the last year or two.


Also, WHAT THE FUCK? Hahaha, the title seems like a parody of On the Slaughterfront. Ray appears half through that sample. Found it through amazon's suggestions when browsing other pig stuff. This thread has me all excited following this new track.

[BlueCalx]

what exactly happened between Raymond and Sascha?

Per Konietzko's answer to this question on the Ultra Heavy Beat forums, Sascha grew fed up with Raymond's drink and drug habit and unprofessional work ethic. He said something about Andy Selway having to poke Raymond with a pencil during a live performance in order for him to stay in time, and he also mentioned that Watts was busted with baggies of drugs at an airport. Too much drama. Konietzko is, as far as I can tell, the only person left on the planet who takes KMFDM seriously. Collaborators who don't treat the project like a 9 to 5 job really rankle him and quickly find themselves tossed out, then dissed and dismissed on the internet. His attitude, though, has paid off. KMFDM have a new album out roughly every 18 months, followed by a well-attended tour, while Watts isn't capable of producing much more than internet speculation about his health and whereabouts.

EDIT: Also, not to go off topic too much, but you guys are quite right to cite Foetus. I used to be a massive Thirlwell fan, and I still play a lot of Flow, Nail and the Manorexia and Steroid Maximus music. His music after Love, though, lost me. I've played all those records and found them unmemorable and unappealing. Now that I've had my memory jogged, though, I'll give his new stuff another shot. I've often returned to music I didn't quite get a few years after an initial negative impression and come away really loving it.

[Piko]

Also, there was the Pigmartyr debacle. It was to be released on KMFDM records, and Raymond opted out and went with a shitty label. As sascha put it, "All Glitz, No Glamour". But what BlueCalx said is true, on Sascha's account. Part of me thinks that Raymond just stopped caring about recording and touring. He had family issues (divorce), so his head wasn't there as it probably could have been. And I agree that Sascha takes KMFDM very seriously. Look what he did to Esch and Schulz. Esch's influence just became less and less throughout the years until they eventually split. If Sascha considers you a waste of time, or not dedicated to the project like he thinks you should be, he'll just work on without you.

[aggroculture]

A Stroll in the Pork: great EP.
As for Foetus...I just feel that Raymond does it a whole lot better, whatever "it" is.
Marc Heal? Doesn't sound too promising...never heard anything by Cubanate that grabbed me, feel free to put me straight.
KMFDM may have records out and a fanbase (who are these people?), but they are a joke these days and have been for years: I am glad Ray is not part of that.
This new track is pretty awful, I hope they cut those "drunken" sounding vocals. And yes, it is too little too late.

[aggroculture]

(double post)

BlueCalx: any more info on "Eden"? Apparently he co-produced the abysmal Pigmartyr...

EDIT: Stumbled on this http://www.dailyraider.com/index.php?id=6067

[BlueCalx]

(double post)

BlueCalx: any more info on "Eden"? Apparently he co-produced the abysmal Pigmartyr...

EDIT: Stumbled on this http://www.dailyraider.com/index.php?id=6067

I've had a devil of a time finding out anything on this character. As best I can tell, he did co-produce Pigmartyr, was indeed responsible for it sounding like shit, and was also the one to talk Ray out of working with KMFDM Records on the release, thus providing another blow to Watts's relationship with Sascha & co. and helping to close off another avenue for Ray to make music and make money. After Pigmartyr, he did indeed depart for Australia. In an interview that I've been unable to dig back up, I remember Watts saying that Eden was "in love".

Martin Eden, for those who don't know, is the title character in a Jack London novel. The book is written partly as veiled autobiography and partly as a critique of socialism, and it ends with the main character's suicide. That's neither here nor there, but I did want to establish a basis for my statement that "Martin Eden" is an alias.

As for KMFDM, I don't have nearly the problem with them that many others do. Their recent music is perfectly serviceable dance-rock full of catchy hooks, thumping beats and chugga riffs. It's not going to change the world, but it'll move your ass if you still think it's cool to go out to goth/industrial nights and do the rivethead stomp in 2012. They're their genre's AC/DC, forgoing innovation in favour of reliability and providing cheap thrills to the remaining faithful. KMFDM's current lineup is comprised of almost the entire Pig live band, plus Sascha and Lucia. I saw them live last summer with a room full of aging goths, aging punks, aging metalheads, RPG geeks and sullen young bucks and they totally slayed.

[Piko]

They aren't the live band anymore... And KMFDM's been pretty generic for the past few years. WTF?! was the redemption. Raymond certainly left a huge void when he left KMFDM. But I wasn't too amazed by his WWIII tracks. Not bad songs, but they could've been much more. I do still wonder what Hau Ruck and the later albums would've sounded like if he had stayed. But I dunno... He only contributed vocals to like two or three songs an album. He's certainly more charismatic than sascha though, easily.

And yeah, Eden was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Shadaloo]

Christ, how I miss the days when looking forward to a new Pig release wasn't entirely an exercise in futility. I got into Ray's work a little bit before GAM came out with Sinsation as my introduction (holy shit what an album), and think I got GAM on Napster months before it was released stateside. He has or had a pretty sizeable fanbase in Japan; getting together a comprehensive discography means buying imports. Took me ages to find the Poke In The Eye on CD (later issue with the eye artwork) and I shelled out for it, but I'm happy to have it.

I dig Pigmata/Pigmartyr; don't get where the dislike comes from either apart from the way 'Eden' botched it.

Here's hoping for more new stuff some time, but hey, family first - if he's a stay at home dad, more power to him. I remember reading on theswining forum that he'd started jogging, and apparently quit drinking and smoking, so maybe his rockstar antics are behind him in part.

[Piko]

Problem with Pigmartyr was the mixing. Sounded like shit. Pigmata sounds FAR superior and listenable. And I don't mind the album. I like it actually. Eden influenced a more accessible sound out of Pig. Enough of a change that they didn't even want to call it a Pig album. It IS a Pig album though. A little different, but still a Pig album nonetheless. Easily, the most commercial sounding material to come from Raymond. Not a bad thing though. It was the shitty mixing and label that ruined Pigmartyr for me (some people, probably to this day, still never received their CD...). Pigmata was the redemption. Sound is incredible and it's everything Pigmartyr should've been. And while not Pig's best, I'd easily rank it over anything kmfdm had done post-reformation (although I really do enjoy WTF?!).

[blassster]

For those not on facebook:

"PIG session. Raymond writing lyrics on the studio floor." - 3 hours ago, via www.facebook.com/theswining

[Piko]

Nice! Looks promising, but I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.

[THE JOHNNY ROOK]

For those not on facebook:

"PIG session. Raymond writing lyrics on the studio floor." - 3 hours ago, via www.facebook.com/theswining

Wonder how many noise complaints he got in that studio apartment ?

[Radiovoyr]

Per Konietzko's answer to this question on the Ultra Heavy Beat forums, Sascha grew fed up with Raymond's drink and drug habit and unprofessional work ethic. He said something about Andy Selway having to poke Raymond with a pencil during a live performance in order for him to stay in time, and he also mentioned that Watts was busted with baggies of drugs at an airport. Too much drama. Konietzko is, as far as I can tell, the only person left on the planet who takes KMFDM seriously. Collaborators who don't treat the project like a 9 to 5 job really rankle him and quickly find themselves tossed out, then dissed and dismissed on the internet. His attitude, though, has paid off. KMFDM have a new album out roughly every 18 months, followed by a well-attended tour, while Watts isn't capable of producing much more than internet speculation about his health and whereabouts.

EDIT: Also, not to go off topic too much, but you guys are quite right to cite Foetus. I used to be a massive Thirlwell fan, and I still play a lot of Flow, Nail and the Manorexia and Steroid Maximus music. His music after Love, though, lost me. I've played all those records and found them unmemorable and unappealing. Now that I've had my memory jogged, though, I'll give his new stuff another shot. I've often returned to music I didn't quite get a few years after an initial negative impression and come away really loving it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Makes a lot of sense - Sascha does seem a bit like he would have very intense work ethic, which is probably why I like KMFDM so much. I dislike an album, I can just wait a yearish for the next one haha.

[aggroculture]

Problem with Pigmartyr was the mixing. Sounded like shit. Pigmata sounds FAR superior and listenable. And I don't mind the album. I like it actually. Eden influenced a more accessible sound out of Pig. Enough of a change that they didn't even want to call it a Pig album. It IS a Pig album though. A little different, but still a Pig album nonetheless. Easily, the most commercial sounding material to come from Raymond. Not a bad thing though. It was the shitty mixing and label that ruined Pigmartyr for me (some people, probably to this day, still never received their CD...). Pigmata was the redemption. Sound is incredible and it's everything Pigmartyr should've been. And while not Pig's best, I'd easily rank it over anything kmfdm had done post-reformation (although I really do enjoy WTF?!).

This has convinced me to give Pigmata another shot. I remember giving it a try, and thinking "this is the same shitty album as Pigmartyr" but I'll try again.
I interviewed RW back in 2000 or so, it was one of my first interviews, he was great: I went to the studio and he was really cool.
Then I met him at a KMFDM show after the release of Watts' Pigmartyr (a show he disappointingly didn't guest perform at, not even Juke Joint Jezebel): he asked me my opinion of Pigmartyr - be honest, he said. When I started to remonstrate it wasn't up there with older releases, he got mad, and started on about not repeating yourself or doing the same thing over and people move on etc. It was a bit awkward.

BTW just wanted to add that this thread warms the cockles of my heart: I only know one guy IRL who digs Pig, and it's great to see there are fans out there.

[THE JOHNNY ROOK]

When I started to remonstrate it wasn't up there with older releases, he got mad, and started on about not repeating yourself or doing the same thing over and people move on etc. It was a bit awkward.

'

Like I said before, The Slip was no TDS. They are musical ventures. I have actually turned a lot of friends to PIG recently showing them Drugzilla when they never heard of Pig, KMFDM, 'industrial' before in their life. I think it is great, I love Pigmartyr even though I was a fan before. I missed the orchestra sounds but he moved on.

Can't tell me you don't enjoy listening to the first 40 seconds then WAM BAM THANK YA MAM in your face!

Dat bass

[blassster]

A few minutes ago PIG shared a status from Cubanate's page:

New PIG track "Shake" is now finished. Will publish it next week once I've mixed my new one "The Compound Eye".

[THE JOHNNY ROOK]

Just a chill track... something fun to cruise to in your car. Mostly electronic. I hope he throws a curve-ball and dishes this huge orchestral piece soon.


Enjoy!