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Thread: Brussels attacks

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    No nation should be brought into an existencial crisis just to cater for its guests.
    Right, because a rapid shift in population, culture and religion has never happened before in European history...
    That still sounds a whole lot like "these muslims are invading us !". They're still far from it, and honestly, so what... Nations evolve, that's what Europe is. Once were the celts, then the romans, then the christians, the communists, the imperialists, so on, so forth. Shit happened, then settled in. It's not like most European cultures aren't already reduced to a propped-up corpse...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    Right, because a rapid shift in population, culture and religion has never happened before in European history...
    That still sounds a whole lot like "these muslims are invading us !". They're still far from it, and honestly, so what... Nations evolve, that's what Europe is. Once were the celts, then the romans, then the christians, the communists, the imperialists, so on, so forth. Shit happened, then settled in. It's not like most European cultures aren't already reduced to a propped-up corpse...
    Ummm...

    After the fall of the Western Roman Empire (and thus the Ancient Ages), if you wanted to summarize Europe in the Middle Ages with just one word, then Christianity would have been a good choice. Christianity is something that survived to this very day - yes, politics are now secular, but saying that religions changed... Not at all. Every change in the last 1000 years was just some form of advancement or another iteration of Christianity, whether we are talking about the division of Christianity or the Church of England. The Soviet Union tried to force its views on the part of Europe they held hostage, but with what success? Visit any Eastern-European country and you can start counting the crosses yourself. We were under Russian influence until '89, but despite that, out of the 6 elections after that, 3 of them were won (cojointedly) by the Christian party as well. (And everything they suggest or force through are the most moronic stuff you could think of, but that's besides the point)

    Population changed? Sure, first The Black Death came, then the Industrial Revolution. But it had nothing to with ethnics. Nations were just as proud back then as today, except at that time they could do basically anything, as we did not have basic human rights. If you were an ethnicity you could have one and only one saving grace: you were willing to fight viciously. If you defended the kingdom you lived in bravely, then you might got rights. But other than that, you were a 2nd or 3rd degree citizen only.

    I learned about a nation which succesfully fought for their rights and did not let themselves to be pushed around. Though it had an ugly end, the power and effect of the French Revolution on our modern history is undisputeable. It made everyone realize that people have power now, and you can't just swipe them away saying "oh they'll just live with it, what else could they do?" Hungary has two days honored by Google, and one of them is for the Revolution of '56 against the Soviet regime, which tried to force itself on it's slave countries. Other countries followed suit, and though we got rekt pretty hard, it showed that nope, you still can't just say to people that they will live in a world 180 degree different from what they used to, and expect them to just obediently swallow it.

    Not sure how the Celts or Romans come to the picture though. Romans were advanced people while Europe had savage barbarians. If anything, Romans were the first to give us something remotely resembling as being a nation, and when actual kingdoms in Europe were founded, they cemented their power by forging their people under one banner, making them feel like a true nation. So basically you either adopted Christianity or got majorly fucked.

    Europe may had "some" (haha) infights, but the cultures of the (now) UK, (now) Germany and France have never been shaken. Hell, freakin' Germany stood up from zero TWICE now; you've got to give credit to the German people for even existing today, let alone being the major power they are. Yes, some cultures and major powers got dissolved along the way, like Prussia, Poland (they came back, welcome back!), or Austria-Hungary, but we also got new relevant countries like the united Italy or the free Spain. Though Spain was a badass even back then, so maybe I should've listed it among the first three.

    Europe's demise has already started, no one can deny that. Germany, France, they all had problems with ethnics even before the refugee crisis, and they were falling behind of the likes of the USA, China or Russia. The latter two where they solved their ethnics problems with middle-aged tools. You won't see refugees in Russia or China, that's for sure, and as for the USA, seems like building a wall to keep a certain ethnic group out is at the very least will net you a presidential nominee, so there's that to think about.

    You are saying if it's broken why even try to fix it, why not just embrace and hasten a new age? A good question, since I have no answers as to how we could keep our culture intact. Germany will surely rather rename itself Syria within 200 years, than to even make any attempt in their policies which might alienate ethnics - WW1 but especially WW2 made it so that they have to be in a 300% political correct state to distance themselves from the past events as much as possible. Germany is the ex who cheated on you twice, so even though she is paying for everything you do, and supports you in every way, if you catch her to even glimpse on another man, she's done for. Though it should have nothing to do with why German people don't want to have more children. If ever in doubt, money is always the answer - throw at them free money and let those lil' babies eventually pay it back to you just by existing. Then again, it's surely a more complicated matter.

    I didn't say Syrians are coming here to conquer. It's just basic stuff that if you forcefully inject so many new people from an entirely different culture into your vein, then they will stick together - just as we would. And if you can't keep them in the minority, then they will have every right to take bigger and bigger bites from the cake.
    Last edited by Volband; 03-29-2016 at 01:24 PM.

  3. #93
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    LOL, Mr. Volband is making Donald Trump look like the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

    The U.S. doesn't even have any of its own "culture" (other than maybe Native American and African American) so I don't even know what any of this means. Other than hearing my mother, a typical WASC, living in the League of Nations in her condo building, and she keeps bitching about how none of them SPEAK ENGLISH GOD DAMN IT, and that the Polish want to turn it into a POLISH VILLAGE, THIS IS AMERICA. But they all send their kids to POLISH SCHOOL to learn POLISH and the little kids don't know any English and the adults only buy Polish vodka so "why are they here?" if they only want to live among the Polish people and send their money back to Poland? And they're so CLIQUE-Y, OH.MY.GOD, BECKY. And this drives the Americans in my mother's building nuts. So, yeah, Syrians, Polish, Russians, Indians, Mexicans, whatever, insert your favorite hated interloper [here], they're speaking a language we can't understand and it's like the Korean manicurist episode of Seinfeld.



    Ultimately, the Syrians' dreams is to ... drum roll, please ... go back to Syria.

    Just like those Poles in my mother's building want to go back to Poland. They don't want to assimilate because they ain't plannin' on STAYIN'. They just want to go home. And, they're trying to keep their OWN culture alive, too. (meanwhile, they're bitching about the Mexicans in the building. and they REALLY hate the Russians in the building.)
    Last edited by allegro; 03-29-2016 at 02:23 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    LOL, Mr. Volband is making Donald Trump look like the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

    The U.S. doesn't even have any of its own "culture" (other than maybe Native American and African American) so I don't even know what any of this means. Other than hearing my mother, a typical WASC, living in the League of Nations in her condo building, and she keeps bitching about how none of them SPEAK ENGLISH GOD DAMN IT, and that the Polish want to turn it into a POLISH VILLAGE, THIS IS AMERICA. But they all send their kids to POLISH SCHOOL to learn POLISH and the little kids don't know any English and the adults only buy Polish vodka so "why are they here?" if they only want to live among the Polish people and send their money back to Poland? And they're so CLIQUE-Y, OH.MY.GOD, BECKY. And this drives the Americans in my mother's building nuts. So, yeah, Syrians, Polish, Russians, Indians, Mexicans, whatever, insert your favorite hated interloper [here], they're speaking a language we can't understand and it's like the Korean manicurist episode of Seinfeld.



    Ultimately, the Syrians' dreams is to ... drum roll, please ... go back to Syria.

    Just like those Poles in my mother's building want to go back to Poland. They don't want to assimilate because they ain't plannin' on STAYIN'. They just want to go home. And, they're trying to keep their OWN culture alive, too. (meanwhile, they're bitching about the Mexicans in the building. and they REALLY hate the Russians in the building.)
    You are right, you don't have your own culture, so with all due respect, let's not compare the USA with Europe in this regard. Have you been in Europe? We have buildings dating back 2000 years and almost every city is built around the same principle. Everywhere you go, you see culture and buildings, statues, plaques, whatnot honoring it. You can walk on roads which were originally built by the Ancient Romans, but even if you just take a regular tour with a guide, he or she can tell you something interesting about every corner. Most Europeans have a very strong connection to their nationality, and they are proud of what makes them to be. After all, most of us has at least a 1000 years old of tradition if not more. I'm not saying we are giving a kiss to our national flag every night and moning, we just simply has a sense of healthy existence. That's why you can't really say "you've been to Europe", only the countries you've been, since the moment you cross a border you are somewhere entirely new - for better or worse.

    You can't just say "well, we are not even 300 years old, and we were created pretty much artificially, but...", just no. Even your own war for revolution was won with the help of European soldiers. I like the USA, would totally visit the shit out of it, but please... comparing cultures in this case is pointless, and you are doing a rather shitty job with the minorities as well.

    The reason I mentioned Trump is to showcase that even in one of the most influential country in the world, it is possible to be a presidential nominee on the back of opposing ethnics and drumming up the fear of nationalitism (or as it is called in the USA, patriotism) in the people. The basic education in Europe might be superior to the USA's, but that's might still not be enough to prevent such people getting elected here as well.

    You brought up something interesting though. If Syrians want to go back to Syria eventually, but they can't, then that's an even bigger hinderance to integrating them. Cooling the tensions between Syrians and the citizens is a big meat to chew on its own, but if not even the Syrians would like to stay or adapt... Then I guess we'll have the longest and most expensive starng competition ever.

    edit: I forgot to mention a dozen other things, but the first that came to my mind are the dishes! It's funny how entirely different the dishes can be in Europe. People who try Hungarian dishes for the first time are rather shocked how fucking spicy everything is, but many fall in love with it and are sad they can't even buy the propwer ingredients where they live. But when you grow up with said dishes, you don't even realize the food you've been stuffing yourself ever since you knew about yourself can be so exciting for those who haven't tried it.

    Also, don't let Eastern-Europeans get you into drinking with them. You can't win. We have the most drunken countries this side of Europe.
    Last edited by Volband; 03-29-2016 at 03:42 PM.

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    The Syrians are still planning to go back someday; they hope that someday they will get their homeland back; ask any Syrian.

    And we DO have a culture: it's a melting pot of every culture of every immigrant who has come to this country and brought that thousand years of history with them. Accordingly, we have about 50 different types of ethnic restaurants in Chicago (Chicago even has several Hungarian restaurants and a Hungarian Festival), about 20 different languages spoken, tons of different art and history cultures melded into our city, we are like a quilt of customs and heritages. And our huge country is just like that in different ways, dwarfing all of Europe with a mix of immigrants from all over the world. That's why you didn't get the joke about how we have xenophobes here who want them all to go "home" because these foreigners (who aren't foreigners and who actually live here) don't speak English and these xenophobe Americans want to surround themselves with English-speaking culturally-whitewashed Anglicans. But, honey, that horse left the barn 250 years ago.

    But don't brag about drinking; this is a thread about people dying at the hands of terrorism, not a thread to brag about alcoholism. We have plenty of that in this country, too, trust me. See this about Native Americans, for instance. This isn't the place for that discussion.

    Look, 65 Pakistani Christians were killed by the Taliban on Easter, over 360 people were injured, mostly children killed in a children's park on the Easter holiday. But we aren't seeing this as front-page news or seeing sad cartoons because they were brown people.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-29-2016 at 09:53 PM.

  6. #96
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    Funny how the inexistant American culture is just steamrolling over the old world's, has been for 60 years now too...

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    There is "not keeping Europe white" with having mixed couples and there's "not keeping Europe white" with ethnic people having a much higher birth ratio within their group. The problem with the latter that it will lead to cultural differences and opposition. In a hypothetical scenario a hundred years from now, these once-refugees could have every right to change the majority of churches into Islamic ones. Why should they follow the European traditions, ceremonies, whatever, when they have their own and they are continously overgrowing the Europeans? No nation should be brought into an existencial crisis just to cater for its guests.

    No, if you want to settle in Europe, then first and foremost, learn the language of the country you live in (rip Belgian refugees) then adapt and accept OUR culture. You don't have to follow it, but you better not make a fuss about all the crosses all around the city for example, saying it offends you.
    Man, this is crazy. There is literally 0% chance that Europe is going to someday replace all their churches with mosques, lol. Your culture is not under threat. If anyone should be concerned about losing their culture in this new arrangement, it's the Syrians.

    Assimilation is a natural and inevitable part of all immigration. Syrian immigrants are not going to "stick together" for a hundred years, at least not in the rigid way you seem to be fantasizing about. There is no historical precedent for what you are describing. It is literally impossible for Syrian immigrants to remain unchanged by their new lives in Europe because one's "culture" is a fluid and perpetually evolving thing. Yes, people hold onto traditions (and there's nothing wrong with that)...but the years go by as they forge new relationships and experience a new kind of day-to-day life, and they gradually start to become transformed people. And their children? Second generation immigrants are drastically different people than their parents. They feel a much deeper connection to the country they were born in than whatever country their parents came from. By the third generation, they're essentially "natives," and whatever form of their family's previous culture they still manage to retain is made possible only through a tremendous personal effort to "hold onto tradition," because everything they are surrounded by compels them to assimilate. Even then, their "original" culture is not really original at all at that point, but more of an imagined memory of something they have little to no first hand experience with.

    I currently live in Minneapolis, which has an incredibly high population of Somali refugees and immigrants who came here after the Somali civil war broke out about 25 years ago, a situation that bears some similarities to the Syrian/European refugee situation. In fact, we have the highest Somali population in the entire world outside of Somalia itself. The cultural "integrity" of this place hasn't been diminished or compromised in the slightest. Instead, it's the Somali population who has become more and more Americanized as the years have gone on. With most of these current kids, if it weren't for their last names, you would have no way whatsoever of knowing their heritage comes from Somalia, or that they were possibly Muslim, because they are utterly indistinguishable from any other young American. Generally speaking, this is how immigration goes.

    And if you're so concerned about people "sticking to themselves" and not assimilating, you might want to adopt a less culturally competitive mindset, as your current attitude will only encourage the kind of scenario you claim to be worried about. People are far more likely to stay isolated when they feel surrounded by hostility.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The Syrians are still planning to go back someday; they hope that someday they will get their homeland back; ask any Syrian.

    And we DO have a culture: it's a melting pot of every culture of every immigrant who has come to this country and brought that thousand years of history with them. Accordingly, we have about 50 different types of ethnic restaurants in Chicago (Chicago even has several Hungarian restaurants and a Hungarian Festival), about 20 different languages spoken, tons of different art and history cultures melded into our city, we are like a quilt of customs and heritages. And our huge country is just like that in different ways, dwarfing all of Europe with a mix of immigrants from all over the world. That's why you didn't get the joke about how we have xenophobes here who want them all to go "home" because these foreigners (who aren't foreigners and who actually live here) don't speak English and these xenophobe Americans want to surround themselves with English-speaking culturally-whitewashed Anglicans. But, honey, that horse left the barn 250 years ago.

    But don't brag about drinking; this is a thread about people dying at the hands of terrorism, not a thread to brag about alcoholism. We have plenty of that in this country, too, trust me. See this about Native Americans, for instance. This isn't the place for that discussion.

    Look, 65 Pakistani Christians were killed by the Taliban on Easter, over 360 people were injured, mostly children killed in a children's park on the Easter holiday. But we aren't seeing this as front-page news or seeing sad cartoons because they were brown people.
    So you have a culture because you borrowed a bunch of stuff from other, real cultures? All right, call it that, it's still not comparable to, you know, actual culture. Personally, I like the history of Britain the most, but even mine is quite rich. The Tudors were dope.

    The USA are certainly proud people, and hey, it is indisputable that you sorted your shit out back then, and when it came to warmonging, you showed the world how the power has shifted. I'd be proud too if my country had the power to liberate the shit out of everyone with a state of the art military. I adore your sense of "FUCK YEAH, MURICA!!!! We can do anything!"

    Drinking or talking about enduring drinking is not alcoholism. I'm sorry if you can't hold your liquour, but that's not my problem - I merely commented on another cultural feat, that we do. Though I'm pretty sure the Germans are born with beer in their veins too.

    And yes, do you see how pretentious we are? Attack in Paris? Thread. Attack in Brussels? Thread. Attack everywhere else? Meh.

    Also, karma can leave me alone now! How is that it's ME who have to wait an extra 50 mins because there was a bomb-alert? Anyway, if this useless train explodes under me, give me a cool forum title or something. "Culture expert" would do it. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    Funny how the inexistant American culture is just steamrolling over the old world's, has been for 60 years now too...
    That's a bit stretching it. The USA is not nearly as omnipotent as it might seem. And that streamrolling that happened was thanks to their military, aka financial situation. How on Earth is it related to culture. USA was artifically planted on a gold mine with great natural defenses against warmongers. Hooray?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Man, this is crazy. There is literally 0% chance that Europe is going to someday replace all their churches with mosques, lol. Your culture is not under threat. If anyone should be concerned about losing their culture in this new arrangement, it's the Syrians.

    Assimilation is a natural and inevitable part of all immigration. Syrian immigrants are not going to "stick together" for a hundred years, at least not in the rigid way you seem to be fantasizing about. There is no historical precedent for what you are describing. It is literally impossible for Syrian immigrants to remain unchanged by their new lives in Europe because one's "culture" is a fluid and perpetually evolving thing. Yes, people hold onto traditions (and there's nothing wrong with that)...but the years go by as they forge new relationships and experience a new kind of day-to-day life, and they gradually start to become transformed people. And their children? Second generation immigrants are drastically different people than their parents. They feel a much deeper connection to the country they were born in than whatever country their parents came from. By the third generation, they're essentially "natives," and whatever form of their family's previous culture they still manage to retain is made possible only through a tremendous personal effort to "hold onto tradition," because everything they are surrounded by compels them to assimilate. Even then, their "original" culture is not really original at all at that point, but more of an imagined memory of something they have little to no first hand experience with.

    I currently live in Minneapolis, which has an incredibly high population of Somali refugees and immigrants who came here after the Somali civil war broke out about 25 years ago, a situation that bears some similarities to the Syrian/European refugee situation. In fact, we have the highest Somali population in the entire world outside of Somalia itself. The cultural "integrity" of this place hasn't been diminished or compromised in the slightest. Instead, it's the Somali population who has become more and more Americanized as the years have gone on. With most of these current kids, if it weren't for their last names, you would have no way whatsoever of knowing their heritage comes from Somalia, or that they were possibly Muslim, because they are utterly indistinguishable from any other young American. Generally speaking, this is how immigration goes.

    And if you're so concerned about people "sticking to themselves" and not assimilating, you might want to adopt a less culturally competitive mindset, as your current attitude will only encourage the kind of scenario you claim to be worried about. People are far more likely to stay isolated when they feel surrounded by hostility.
    1. I survived. Sorry.

    2. This is the first post regarding this topic with actual, sane reasoning. It's like you live in the same world as I do and not same fairy tale written for 5 year olds. I shine when it comes to handling people who just spam mindless (left or right) propaganda (or mentioning America and culture in the same sentence), but I really can't do anything else with this except agreeing with it. Shame on you, please leave (/s). BUT the birth rate problem still needs fixing. For some reason, people did not feel like having more children, and the refugee situation won't change a thing.

    And remember, I don't have a problem with accepting refugees in, or even all of them. My problem is that right now it's being handled awfully, which is bad for everyone involved.

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    Why is it bad for everyone or especially for you? The refugees are suffering, but they'll suffer more if we leave them stuck behind fences and walls. They won't take your job, your house, you wife or husband or anything else. All they ask for is a place to sleep, some food and some dignity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    - Germany has no idea how to integrate the refugees.
    - Germany can't even keep them put, which means they can't even solve the living conditions of the refugees.
    - Germany (and Sweden) tried its best to cover up for crimes committed by refugees, whether it was them beating someone up, or sexually harassing a citizen or more.
    - Germany would most likely not find a terror cell if it was sitting right on top of her nose.
    Lol. Every single one of those points is insanely false. Get your facts straight.

    Also, you'll love these: It's a fact that crime in Germany didn't rise since the arrival of refugees during 2015. Quite the opposite, actually, as crimes committed against refugees have been on the rise all year. Among those crimes committed by refugees sex crimes made for less than 1(!) percent.

    So this time, let me break it to you:

    - The vast majority of refugees do not come to the EU with the intention on comitting crimes.
    - Rather they come to find protection and peace.
    - Rumors about an increase in crimes in context of refugees coming to Europa (Germany) are wrong.
    - There is no disproportional increase in crime because of the presence of asylum seekers.

    Also, please imagine a room full of 1000 people. That's europe. Now, imagine 20 people entering that room. Those are the refugees. Please keep telling us about how our "national integrity" (whatever that is, yo) is in danger and keep a straigth face.

    So to sum it up once more and get it over with:

    - You are proposing to not let refugees into "our" countries, because there might be some (few!) (males!!!) among them, who might become criminals.
    - Therefore you're putting every (male?) refugee under universal suspicion of being a criminal (that's racist, yo).
    - Thus you are willing to let everybody else suffer the worst conditions on/around our borders and to let people die in horrible circumstances

    Are you fucking crazy?

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    Lol. Every single one of those points is insanely false. Get your facts straight.

    Also, you'll love these: It's a fact that crime in Germany didn't rise since the arrival of refugees during 2015. Quite the opposite, actually, as crimes committed against refugees have been on the rise all year. Among those crimes committed by refugees sex crimes made for less than 1(!) percent.

    So this time, let me break it to you:

    - The vast majority of refugees do not come to the EU with the intention on comitting crimes.
    - Rather they come to find protection and peace.
    - Rumors about an increase in crimes in context of refugees coming to Europa (Germany) are wrong.
    - There is no disproportional increase in crime because of the presence of asylum seekers.

    Also, please imagine a room full of 1000 people. That's europe. Now, imagine 20 people entering that room. Those are the refugees. Please keep telling us about how our "national integrity" (whatever that is, yo) is in danger and keep a straigth face.

    So to sum it up once more and get it over with:

    - You are proposing to not let refugees into "our" countries, because there might be some (few!) (males!!!) among them, who might become criminals.
    - Therefore you're putting every (male?) refugee under universal suspicion of being a criminal (that's racist, yo).
    - Thus you are willing to let everybody else suffer the worst conditions on/around our borders and to let people die in horrible circumstances

    Are you fucking crazy?

    The point is...the countries such as Serbia, Greece, Macedonia, Hungary, Austria, felt they had NO say...in what was happening.
    Angela Merkel did not consult the other leaders. They were not prepared for 1.5 Million people crossing through their countries. it was forced on them. Without any debate.
    What happened in their countries was decided by Germany. It felt like a loss of sovereignty...its not what the EU was about... Countries like Poland have distanced themselves from Germany now as a result and far right nationalist movements are springing up in response to how she handled it.
    So now literally everyone from Pakistan to Congo to Afghanistan even people from Russia!!! are turning up on Greece's shores.
    Where do you draw the line. 4 Billion in the world live in poverty.
    it was a nobel cause but she handled it with the most insane naivety. So badly managed. Had she taken her time maybe she could have drummed up support instead she acted weirdly.

    There has to be some sort better arrangement.

    It IS a huge task intergrating 1 Million people from a different culture...some countries are not prepeared for it.

    France and U.K have a few million Muslims...all came in from former colonies in much much smaller numbers over the course of 70 years.

    And also I think its hard for people from newer countries in North America to understand the European mindset...countries like Italy are very protective of their culture and national identiy....
    its not the same as North America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    Funny how the inexistant American culture is just steamrolling over the old world's, has been for 60 years now too...
    I dont really understand this quote either.

    Im from the U.K we speak the same language as America....the two countries are sort of related.....ive never felt America was dominating the U.K in terms of culture...its just always been the de-facto OTHER country...the number 2...for me.
    In my life British culture dominates..but yet we have strong influential outsider we can feed off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    And also I think its hard for people from newer countries in North America to understand the European mindset...countries like Italy are very protective of their culture and national identiy....
    its not the same as North America.
    This is what I was trying to explain, though: the United States is FILLED with people desperate to protect their European (and now Chinese!) mindset and culture and former national identity. We are a country filled with immigrants and children of immigrants trying to keep their cultures from the old world. A lot of our "culture" is the immigrants' culture.

    The only reason the U.S. is so reluctant to accept Syrian immigrants isn't due to culture; it's because of racial profiling; after September 11, people assume that most Muslims are terrorists. All of the 9/11 terrorists were here on expired Visas. We lost 2,996 people on 9/11 and more than 6,000 people were injured. People here are still very scared.

    Look, honestly, we do have our own "culture," all kidding aside. If you come here to visit, you will see and find lots of our own culture, and you don't need thousands of years of history to find it; baseball, hotdogs, basketball, southern food, barbecue, Tex-Mex, soul food, the blues, jazz and rock-n-roll were invented here, Vegas, jambalaya, catfish, the French Quarter, Key West, cowboys, country western, Nashville, most of the world's Michelin stars are here, Hollywood, Beverly Hills, New York City, Broadway, Wall Street, Chicago, Gangsters, the Motor City, Silicon Valley, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, it takes at least four whole days with no sleep to drive from the west coast to the east coast, and then we have HAWAII, talk about culture, Alaska and eskimos, Native American pow-wows, tons of world class museums, symphonies and operas, The American Dream, the list goes on and on. And we are filled with new legal and illegal immigrants every single day and unsecured borders.

    But the base of our Statue of Liberty (a gift from France, La Liberté éclairant le monde, for our 100th birthday) says:

    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"




    The thing about Syrian refugees is that most were escaping al-Assad, who was killing his own people with chemical weapons and killing medical workers and torturing women and children, and are now escaping ISIS. How is it easy to say "no" to people who are trying to escape such horrors? There is no "time" to wait in these instances. The United States is still dealing with the guilt of not having saved possibly millions of Jews during the Holocaust because the head of the Dept. of Immigration denied most visas to Jews at the time due to antisemitism.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-31-2016 at 01:10 AM.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    , honestly, we do have our own "culture," all kidding aside. If you come here to visit, you will see and find lots of our own culture, and you don't need thousands of years of history to find it; baseball, hotdogs, basketball, southern food, barbecue, Tex-Mex, soul food, the blues, jazz and rock-n-roll were invented here, Vegas, jambalaya, catfish, the French Quarter, Key West, cowboys, country western, Nashville, most of the world's Michelin stars are here, Hollywood, Beverly Hills, New York City, Broadway, Wall Street, Chicago, Gangsters, the Motor City, Silicon Valley, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, it takes at least four whole days with no sleep to drive from the west coast to the east coast, and then we have HAWAII, talk about culture, Alaska and eskimos, Native American pow-wows, tons of world class museums, symphonies and operas, The American Dream, the list goes on and on. And we are filled with new legal and illegal immigrants every single day and unsecured borders.
    But American Culture IS different...you are a country of immigrants..i love many aspects of Americn culture dearly but your only 230 years old .. all im saying is that its different to the European mindset. America has always been like its own planet....
    Its not normal country...

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    But American Culture IS different...America has always been like its own planet....
    Its not normal country...
    Maybe so, but it was still target to the biggest single act of Middle Eastern terrorism in history. Which is the subject of this thread (terrorism).

    And, ultimately, not wanting Syrians in Brussels is not because Belgians don't want to disrupt their culture (an excuse) but due to fear. Of terrorism.

    Which is exactly why the United States citizens are afraid of more Muslims coming here. Well, not all citizens, but some of them. Hence why Trump is so popular with a lot of Republicans right now, because Trump wants to "ban Muslims" from entering the country until this ISIS shit is straightened out. Because of fear; irrational fear, but fear nonetheless.

    China is a HELL of a lot older than Europe. And our biggest group of new immigrants in the U.S. right now are from China. So the Chinese immigrants are deliberately leaving their culture to come here, choosing a better way of life over culture. Which is why all people leave their respective countries.

    But Americans aren't afraid of Chinese, because they aren't terrorists.

    During WWII, we put innocent Japanese Americans in internment (prison) camps, because we were afraid of them.

    Also, just because this area was discovered by Europeans (and subsequently pillaged) in 1492 and this country was formally established in 1776 does not mean this area does not have thousands of years of history. Sue, the T-Rex now housed in the Field Museum of National History in Chicago, was discovered in South Dakota. Our Native Americans have resided here since 8000 BCE.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-31-2016 at 08:34 AM.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    And also I think its hard for people from newer countries in North America to understand the European mindset...countries like Italy are very protective of their culture and national identiy....
    its not the same as North America.
    Since Canada is part of North America (the continent):

    You want to talk about people who are very protective of their culture and national identity? How do you think us Québécois managed to still talk French after being surrounded by the English for so long?

    We have welcomed our fair share of refugees for a long time. They are welcomed to keep their culture and national identity too. But they have to learn French because le Québec est francophone, tabarnak! :P

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    Where are all the Western European and American refugees going to go, when their coastal cities start to sink under melting sea ice? As the waves of hundreds of thousands from poorer nations swept up in today's conflicts reach to us for help, we must regard it as an opportunity to prepare ourselves for the next hundred years of devastation and displacement across the entire globe, not just the scary Muslim places in the Middle East. Terrorism is going to be old news, there's a larger threat to everyone's survival that is all but completely ignored today. Trying to stop migration now is like building a dam in your backyard to stop a tsunami. Find higher ground, and lend a hand to help whomever you can.

  19. #109
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    Two French Festivals Drop Eagles of Death Metal After Jesse Hughes' Comments

    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...ments-20160520
    Last edited by Leviathant; 05-26-2016 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Linking directly to RS, not thelocal.fr

  20. #110
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    The guns used in the Paris attack may have come from the US, through the Fast & Furious scandal.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...oenix-arizona/

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The guns used in the Paris attack may have come from the US, through the Fast & Furious scandal.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...oenix-arizona/
    This is a huge deal.

    Unfortunately it boils down to discussion like this (from the comments section of the website there): "Not quite sure about this article…Is it a “pro-gun control” piece..? That we should have “stricter, regulations ” like a foreign country like France? Or that the so-called “terrorist firearms” were somehow connected to the USA through a so-called “American gun owner ” ? Don’t know…..Is the point of the article related to “Fast and the Furious 7.5 : The Whitehouse Edtion.” Or because some parts of the USA aren’t under the “Jack boots ” of local/state police, as is the rest of the US populace living in “anti-freedom states.” Or shall I say , “Authoritarianism-crystal lite…” Don’t know about this article….."

    I don't know what the angle is with this website. I don't know if it's "pro-gun" or anti or whatever, I don't know if they're conservative or liberal...I just don't even know where to start to weigh in on the issue regarding the fact that the guns used in the Paris shootings originated from the US. There seems to be some hand-washing by shifting the blame to the "fast and furious" scandal. I just don't know. I'm dismayed that we can't talk about something without worrying what the spin is.

  22. #112
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    Inb4 "French people/white flags" joke in the comments, aaaaaaaaaaaaand done. Well, there's no context where that joke couldn't be funny, am I right ?

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    Brussels attacks

    @Jinsai it's pretty messed up that nobody can formulate an opinion unless they are presented with one that they can choose to agree or disagree with. You give them pure facts and they don't know what to think. It's really sad.

    It either did or didn't happen. It hasn't been proven but there is enough info to have suspicion. That's it!

    What would it mean if it did happen? Well, France would know that they were just attacked by guns that the US Govt deliberately let criminals get. That's pretty damning for the Obama administration, again, but it's unlikely to have any consequences. The US and its allies have a history of being attacked by people they helped supply. It's rare to see average citizens suffer the consequences so clearly though.

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    Judicial Watch source for this story: http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/20...-came-phoenix/

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