Brussels attacks

[Sallos]

France had about approximately 1000, if im not mistaken, young people who went to syria and iraq, received training and got extremist indoctrination and returned to France, back to their home terrorist nests in the outskirts of the big cities. Belgium apparently had about 300. 1000 and 300 terrorists and potential terrorists were allowed to return back to recruit more terrorists and plot terrorist attacks on European soil. If this isn't major incompetence i don't know what is. Those people should've lost their citizenship the moment they signed up with ISIS.

[Exocet]

It was actually over 500 Belgian citizens who left to join Isis. Belgium has 11 Million People. Highest per capita in Europe by far.
Both the U.K and France have 65 Million people almost identical populations.... about 1.500 from France went to join Isis, and around 700 from the U.K left to join ISIS. And also about 700 Germans left too

UK and France have roughly 6 times the population of Belguim its sort of 7.500 French citizens leaving to join Isis. Give you a bit of perspective.

Then you add an under developed security service..i reckon there will be another attack really soon. The terrorists are being protected, its obvious Belgian security teams have no idea what they are doing.
They still have not found the Paris bomb maker either. There are obviously loads of sleeper cells.

[elevenism]

This IS becoming the new normal.
People used to say that the world was going crazy, and i was forever telling them that it has ALWAYS been crazy and bringing up past atrocities.
But now, things are SO fucking volatile. We have psychotic murderers killing people in the name of their movement or their church or their state or because their app told them to do so.
Mass killings are accelerating and shocking people less and less.
It breaks my fucking heart, and my prayers are with the dead, the wounded, and their families.
Goddamnit, i hadn't read the news because i'm dealing with personal struggles, and now i'm crying.

It's like @Jinsai was saying. How in the fuck does murdering innocent people with hopes, dreams, loves, fears...how does this accomplish anything for anyone?

[DigitalChaos]

This IS becoming the new normal.
People used to say that the world was going crazy, and i was forever telling them that it has ALWAYS been crazy and bringing up past atrocities.
But now, things are SO fucking volatile. We have psychotic murderers killing people in the name of their movement or their church or their state or because their app told them to do so.
Mass killings are accelerating and shocking people less and less.

Er, no. There has never been a more peaceful time in recorded history. People are being killed at record low rates. You are just more connected to world news now.

Step back and gain perspective. This is the reactionary emotional mindset that pulls us into 9/11 style mistakes.

[Exocet]

Er, no. There has never been a more peaceful time in recorded history. People are being killed at record low rates. You are just more connected to world news now.

Step back and gain perspective. This is the reactionary emotional mindset that pulls us into 9/11 style mistakes.

But you cant deny something new is happening in Europe either...its has to be confronted rather than be repressed and shoved under the carpet.
That was Obamas stance...im sorry but i fucking hated his foreign policy..this deluded denial

[reznovka]

Er, no. There has never been a more peaceful time in recorded history. People are being killed at record low rates.

Found some statistics to show you're right.
There was always terror and killings but most of us were young or not even born then and thanks to the internet we have way more information than back then.



http://www.watson.ch/Wissen/Schweiz/...r-durch-Europa
for those who speak german

[DigitalChaos]

Damn. I wasn't even thinking specifically about terror attacks. I put it in the "war" bucket because it's just another form of war between humans.

[aggroculture]

Oh yeah, Christianity WAS responsible for a lot of horrible shit. In the past. Now it's (for the most part) quaint and adorable. The worst thing Christianty does nowadays is convince the most ardent extremists to support Ted Cruz.

I'm NOT saying Islam is to blame here, but let's not draw false equivalencies between religions. That's just as simplistic as pointing the finger at a religion and just pinning the blame there.

EDIT: *not saying

This probably isn't the right place to discuss this, but you're wrong here. The influence of so-called "Christianity" on today's US politics is highly toxic and not at all marginal.
Defunding planned parenthood, trying to outlaw abortion again or send women to jail for decades for "feticide": http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-am...ticide-n332761
Anti-LGBT and "religious freedom" laws which legalize discrimination against the LGBT community.
Climate change denial has its roots in "Christian" ideas about nature, and is fully in the service of oil billionaires, fracking industries, anti-regulation corporations and lobbies.
Abstinence-only sex ed, promoted by GWB.
The whole "crusade" against Islam narrative and evangelical support for Israel stems from Christian right politics.

It's not quaint and adorable, there is a huge human toll to "Christianity" meddling in US politics.
In many ways the US is a theocratic, not secular nation. For US citizens without much experience of living in a secular society (such as much of Western Europe is: yes there is religion present at the state level, but there is also a higher degree of separation between church and state), it might not seem this way, but the level of government religiosity, of religion-dictated policy here in the US is a real problem.

[Volband]

Damn. I wasn't even thinking specifically about terror attacks. I put it in the "war" bucket because it's just another form of war between humans.

All I'm seeing from those statistics that after the collapse of the socialist block (related or not, don't know) the casulties from terror attacks dwinled, and seemingly kept at bay after London, and now we had 3 terror attacks in Europe within just 1,5 years? We even knew about the planned attacks on Brussels in advance, yet we still failed to protect the people. Come on now, telling people it's actually safer than before is some major leftist bullshit. You also casually forgot about the fact that Europe is facing its biggest crisis with nationalities in our modern history. People are agitated, losing trust in their government and the EU, and being fanaticized. Right wing parties are having a tea time riding the wave. You can go out to the streets, shout "shoot these rabid dogs, all of them, give the children two bullets" and you'd even gain supporters. You don't have to keep these opinions between four walls, because more and more people (even if just silently) agrees with you. There's a fire and oil is being poured on it. And that's just the migrant and terrorist situation, don't forget we have countries in insane debts, Greece being on life support, and you see, you'd be kicked out of office immidietly if despite knowing all this, you'd drop the "everything's fine people!!!! it's just your perception!!! if we ignore the bombings, shootings and rapings, we are pretty OK!".

At least with shit like the communist block or Yugoslavia, we had the problem right in our sight. You knew who stirred trouble, you know who and where to stay away from. The death toll might be slimmer than a full-out war, but you can't compare an invisible enemy to a war.

[DigitalChaos]

@Volband
I'm not saying to ignore it or not to try and prevent it. I'm just saying not to talk about it as some unprecedented historical situation of killing.

Just because this form of fighting is different than prior types doesn't mean it isn't war. It's still people killing other people over religious, ideological, financial, geographic, resource control, etc reasons. It doesn't matter if they use line infantry or skirmish infantry, spears or guns or bombs, uniformed soldiers or disguised spies or citizens or someone on a laptop.

war is war. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

[Nyx]

And that is so not true that we can't go ahead of these atrocities. Why couldn't we?! We let in:
Elders: They can't even do anything. In the old times they would have been the last to be granted allowance anywhere, but it's the 21st century, so we let them in and grant them their graceful last years. I doubht there are that much elders though.
Children: A 3 years old won't knock you out cold in a dark alley, that's for sure. You can also streamline them into your customs, your traditions. There are countries, like ours, where the low birth rates are actually quite alarming, so, free babies? Yes please!
Mothers: If you take in the children you should take in their mothers as well, everyone wins by this. If they only arrived by their father, then take the fathers. They might not be the best work force, but they have a reason to sit put and don't stirr trouble. If you and your children gets an easy job, free meals and a free house, you won't seek trouble risking it all.
Women: I don't think there are much single women among the migrants, but you can't lose much by letting them in. They are a capable wrok force, might settle down with someone from your country, but most importantly, low risk factor.

As for the majority of the migrants, which are men in their 20s, you make a very strict quota for each country and let them in accordingly. You don't let in gangs, and groups of 20 friends, you deliberately separate them from each other to be as isolated as they can be. You send them to basic, monotone factory work, and those who are serious about being integrated, will eventually have the chance to move forwards, those who thought they will live here for free get an easy ticket back to where they came from. The rest can either turn back, and make impressions of the walkers from The Walking Dead alongside of the fence. It's starting to get hot, and humans can't take dehydration too long. If the world has a problem with that, then the rich Arabian countries, Turkey, Russia and the USA are more than welcome to chip in and show us how humanity is done. But if they can only talk then yes, watch as they drop dead. As sad it is, nothing can be more important for an individual than their lives, and nothing can be more important to a nation than their integrity. To the doubters, once again, history books.

Wait, you actually consider yourself "overall pro-migrant"? Wow.

[elevenism]

Er, no. There has never been a more peaceful time in recorded history. People are being killed at record low rates. You are just more connected to world news now.

Step back and gain perspective. This is the reactionary emotional mindset that pulls us into 9/11 style mistakes.

THis is very fucking interesting @DigitalChaos and @reznovka .

So my usual reaction, that the world isn't any crazier than it's always been, still stands.

[Ryan]

Muslims, I mean, come on.

[DigitalChaos]

You want to know of a first world country that hasn't had a single Muslim terror attack in the last several decades? Japan

I'm always about freedom and freedom is dangerous, but Japan goes the other way on this topic.

[sick among the pure]

You want to know of a first world country that hasn't had a single Muslim terror attack in the last several decades? Japan

I'm always about freedom and freedom is dangerous, but Japan goes the other way on this topic.

Japan also isn't western. Terrorists have been going after western ideals and society.

[reznovka]

Japan is pretty modern and progressive but, as far as I know, has a very low numbers of muslims living there and never fought in a war in the muslim countries.
The problem in the EU are the open borders and the possibility to move freely. Japan on the other hand is surrounded by water and the typical terrorist would stand out way more than in France or Germany.

[Volband]

Wait, you actually consider yourself "overall pro-migrant"? Wow.

"Wow, you'd be strict with the only migrant demographic which has the highest rate of people who are just simply opportunistic?!?! Adolf Hitler much??!"

Ladies and gentlemen, let me show you someone from the left side of the political spectrum, who has a hard time believing I'm overall a pro-migrant, because even though I'd let everyone but one demographic in with open hands (and even with that one I'd just make very strict rules, not straight out reject them all for the lulz), apparently that doesn't cut it to be pro-migrant for the lefties. I'd say I pack my stuff and go right, but they would just ridicule me for even thinking about letting anyone through the holy border of Europe.

Send help, it's very lonely here in the middle.

@Volband
I'm not saying to ignore it or not to try and prevent it. I'm just saying not to talk about it as some unprecedented historical situation of killing.

Just because this form of fighting is different than prior types doesn't mean it isn't war. It's still people killing other people over religious, ideological, financial, geographic, resource control, etc reasons. It doesn't matter if they use line infantry or skirmish infantry, spears or guns or bombs, uniformed soldiers or disguised spies or citizens or someone on a laptop.

war is war. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

Technically, yes. But in this ar you can't see the enemy, which basically means they can be anywhere. It makes the people paranoid and makes (some) of them act or think unreasonably. It's a spark, and funnily enough, with the current migrant situation, we have something very, very flammable as well. Yes, the chances of you getting bombed at let's say a random Spanish airport the day after tomorrow are slim, we are pretty safe in that regard. But animosity is rising, and it won't end well if the EU will continue to be paralyzed.

The good thing in a traditional war is that you can see and even follow step by step how your country and your allies getting revenge and forcing the enemy back. It gives you a certain sense of safety, and even if the war is not going as great, with good enough propaganda it can be sold to the masses as huge success. But how do you sell Europe that we are on our way to kick the terror-threat out of Europe? I bet people in France felt just stellar that France planes bombed Syria. The events in Brussels just showed how "great" of an impact it had.

[Nyx]

There's nothing "middle" about your rhetoric, dude.

[Volband]

There's nothing "middle" about your rhetoric, dude.

Then what is it? Strictly left parties want to let everyone in, even though they have no idea how, and strictly right wing parties want to keep everyone out, even though they have no idea why, other than "but muh country!!!!" The right wing feeds from the hate, and the left tries its best to make it look like that anyone who is even wondering if letting everyone in might be a bad idea to be a child-murderer. I can't feel sympathy to any of these. I don't actually categorize myself, but the few polls on the net all put me in the mainly liberal bracket, so there's that if you want to start somewhere.

I just like to think rationally (a spooky word when it comes to discussing politics), and willing to settle down with like a -30% downgrade to what I consider the good, rational choice - call it politicians fee or whatever you'd like. I have nothing against those migrants, most of them are legitimately trying to escape the terrors back at their home. Hell, guess which country did almost the same 60 years ago? Mine. And guess which countries are trying to find jobs at West, because the living conditions are just so much better there? Eastern-European ones. Many people here refuse to even face the similarities between what we are doing and had done and what the migrants are doing right now. Absolutely mind-numbing. But there is a thing called infrastructure, and no matter how good of a folk you are, when it comes to housing hundreds of thousands of migrants out of the blue, then it won't depend on your heart and good will, but on the infrastructure. I'm all for humanity, but if you are refusing to use your brain, you end up like Sweden and Germany. If none of you are capable to sit down a bit and face the reality that Europe is simply not capable of letting everyone in and getting away with it, then what are we even talking about? You need to get some grasp on reality, as painful as it might be.

When this all began, I was delirious just like you are now. I had heated arguments with one of my friends. I took it on me to enlighten him about how animalistic it is to put up a fence in front of those people, when their destination is not even our country. Turns out, not only it was a right decision, but hell, one of the first step in the entire EU to bring something systematic in (which is rather sad for the West) to try to stop the avalanche and think it through. Many other countries (even those who criticized us for it first) followed suit. I also told him to mark my words, once the migrants leave our country and finally arrive to countries like Germany, surprise-surprise, there will be close to no problem, because the West got it all covered, unlike our incompetent little, hateful country. Turns out the West had no fucking idea what they were doing, and you were quite the unlucky one if you were caught up in the middle of this as a German or Swedish girl. Maybe we should handle them ETS accounts, so you, Nyx, could tell them that those 20-something years old poor migrant men (remember, the only demographic I'd forced to go through strict background-checks) who beat them up, raped them, or both, was just 21st century humanity in action. Maybe you could even guilt trip them for going to the police.

This thread has gone so left that I actually have to check on FB for some right wing compensation. Ah, here it is: "Help the migrants! If you see one on fire, pour gasoline on him/her!" Damn. Two more years and I get to choose again between you guys, but I have a feeling I'm going to skip that general election as well.

[Nyx]

If you want to believe a union consisting of 500 milion people would slip into total chaos, anarchy and poverty due to a 0.2% increase of population, be my guest. Just don't call yourself realistic.
I don't even know how or why refugees were brought up in this thread tbh..

[reznovka]

Then what is it? Strictly left parties want to let everyone in, even though they have no idea how[...]

...because they try to save human lives.

I took it on me to enlighten him about how animalistic it is to put up a fence in front of those people, when their destination is not even our country. Turns out, not only it was a right decision, but hell, one of the first step in the entire EU to bring something systematic in (which is rather sad for the West) to try to stop the avalanche and think it through.

a fence is never the right thing. there are people starving and freezing to death and you think it's a "right decision"?!

Many other countries (even those who criticized us for it first) followed suit.

and I still can't understand why the poor and bankrupt Greece manages to get at least some help for the people and other countries act like shitheads.
most of the people wanna go to Sweden or Germany and I am glad our borders are still open even though we have a strong right wing group which tries to change that.
just let them through.

[DigitalChaos]

If this happened 20-30 years back, we would probably have a much better outcome. Actual policing is how this kind of thing gets solved. Instead, we have stripped resources from this "old way" and put it toward NSA style intel gathering that lets so much more slip through the cracks. ISIS has repeatedly shown to be low skill, yet they still aren't stopped with current methods.

[DigitalChaos]

Japan is pretty modern and progressive but, as far as I know, has a very low numbers of muslims living there and never fought in a war in the muslim countries.
The problem in the EU are the open borders and the possibility to move freely. Japan on the other hand is surrounded by water and the typical terrorist would stand out way more than in France or Germany.

There are a lot of underlying policy and cultural reasons that make it this way. It's the kind of thing that would get heavy criticism from the PC crowd if it happened in the US. However, there are also a lot of people saying that Japan is attractive for Muslims because of the religious freedom they offer.

[Volband]

If you want to believe a union consisting of 500 milion people would slip into total chaos, anarchy and poverty due to a 0.2% increase of population, be my guest. Just don't call yourself realistic.
I don't even know how or why refugees were brought up in this thread tbh..

No, I don't see modern countries slipping into total chaos, at least not yet. But it's amusing to me how you spout the mindless left propaganda with casually ignoring everything that's happened so far. Even right now, that mere 0.2% increase is not handled in a good way at all, causing issues, causing (eventually) political heads to roll. It has already led to violence in many countries which led the refugees in. It is a fact that refugees have committed physical violence on more occasions, and they were on the short end of it as well. We can't even start talking about integration, because that process is at like -40%. You try to act like that 0.2% does not matter and easy to handle, well, do you want me to search for videos where some people from that 0.2% drown to their death? Or where they are rioting, because it's a huge mess almost everywhere?

And if anyone should know better, it's YOU. You most likely had to thoroughly learn about the history of Central- and Eastern-Europe. While the West is pretty much only started facing with the problem of nationalities recently (bar England, but England was always the odd one out in the European history), it's in the very root of our history. We had more than a thousand years to make nationalities live in harmony, but it always ended the same way. To this day people are raised to hate certain countries bordering their own because of some hundred years old shit which hit the fan after the first World War. You REALLY think that Syrian child going to school in somewhere Europe amongst the terrorist attacks and the rape charges will have a nice, friendly day? Mindless hate, racism is present as early as in primary school. If you can't integrate them into your culture, or at least make a peaceful compromise somehow, they are bound to stick together, live separately and fueled with animosity. Just because these things don't happen within 24 hours, does not mean it's not a real threat.

Are you asking me how migrants who come from an Arab country, following the Islam, herded into Europe, some of them, causing trouble, and countries unable to properly do anything with them with more and more on their way have anything to do with the third terrorist attack in Europe within 1,5~ years ? Gee, I don't know.

But I have a question too! I could not find it in your profile, so I'm asking here: are you of age to vote? So in the next general election, will you be eligible to draw an X on the paper next to whatever is your country's main leftist party, who are probably sound like a broken record by now, repeatedly saying that we (well, you) must let everyone in, that's the right thing to do, screw those bad guys on the right, let's everyone adopt a refugee starting yesterday, if you disagree you are literally killing this little girl in this picture with her parents? I won't hold it against you until at least deep down you are willing to accept that you need to dig a pretty big hole in the ground so that you can pretend that this migrant situation is the easiest shit ever happened to Europe (btw call Merkel asap, she might want to hear some advices, it seemed rather tough for her) and contains absolutely no danger at all.

...because they try to save human lives.


a fence is never the right thing. there are people starving and freezing to death and you think it's a "right decision"?!

How much money you have to spare? If you are not living from paycheck to paycheck, you have some. Even if you are putting some aside for a car, house, anything, you surely has some spare money. How much did you spend on the refugees? Did you send them your worn out clothes? Did you seek out options to house some of them for a while? Did you try to volunteer at one of the shelters? Did you try to look for some job for some of them? Did you buy at least a cup of hot tea for some of them during the winter? Hm?

Or is saving human lives means logging into internet boards, posting that we HAVE TO let EVERYONE in, then turn off the computer and continue living your life as you were, while these poor, ""saved"" migrants are even more lost here in the middle of paralyzed government and racism and terror-threats than they were out in the open? Do you have any idea how we might solve this? Or you close your eyes, count to three, and check the news again, seeing if maybe this time you can finally read something positive and promising?

Why don't we go further? Why don't we reach out to Africa? Is it because they are not coming? If they were coming, would you advocate to let them in? I'm talking about a few hundred thousand, or as Nyx would say, just 0.2%. Or is that different because they are a thirld world country, so they were basically born and raised in despair?


How is the rate of nationalities in your country? Is there any animosity? Are there nationalities which many look at as troublemakers? Is there tension? Has it ever resulted in violence?

Is there unemployement in your country? How bad is it?

I don't know about your country, so... do you have homeless people? How bad is poverty there? Can everyone manage more or less, or are there people, families out there who are not even sure if they'l have something to it next month? Do you have disabled people whom the government don't take proper care? You know, people who are not "enough" disabled to get as much money or care from the government so they can manage just fine, but it's crippling enough to make their life miserable. Do you have orphans in your country? How much? They would surely like to find a family to be raised up in, right? That's very important in a little child's life. They don't understand why "no one loves them."

Do you think about them? Do you think about the starving children in your country when you are talking about humanity and saving everyone, while migrants are being fed and taken care of for free? Would you have what it takes to make a speech while your audience would everyone I was talking about in the previous paragraph? "Mr. George! How's that leg? The son of a bitch still hurts, eh? But if you gotta work, you gotta work, am I right? Hey, Christine! Don't hide, I see you! How old are you again? 7, right? Are you eating a slice of bread?! A whole?! Christine, sharing is caring! Refugees are starving too. Frank, could you get out of your financial crisis? No?? Damn, they are taking the house? Must be hard on your wife and the kids. But damn, even harder on some of the refugees, I was thinking about sheltering some at your house, but I guess that's a no-go now. But hey, at least Gabriel here can give you some advice, isn't that right, Gabriel? Living on the streets for almost 10 whole years now! What a champ. Now, old fella, I wanted to ask you to try to be more invisible, because it's not good publicity to the refugees seeing you like... well, the way you are, you know? Well, everyone, it's been a blast! Not a blast like in Paris or Brussels though, but hey, you don't have to worry a thing about that. You have nothing to lose! Except you Luise, you still have your alcoholic father that beats you up every night, do you not? Anyway, another wave of refugees coming in, so please, welcome them with open hands! No, Dennis, no! Don't even start talking about your brother and how they beat him up last time. I'll have you know that you are a racist."

You can't save everyone, and pretending you can does not make you a better person. Like, are you a good doctor if you hold back the information that someone has cancer? "Awww Volband, you told him?! Oh, you and your >>realistic<<, DUH, thinking. Once again you are being a fucking downer, telling people they will most likely die. Look at our patients, you moron! They keep smiling and hoping, completely unaware that they are basically already dead. Where is your humanity?"

I am really happy for you, that you are trying to believe, but sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes you are caught up in a lose-lose situation. Sometimes you can't save everyone. I'm not saying that you should accept everything I'm saying as law, but when basically everything backs up my claim that we are absolutely, horrendously incapable of handling this situation, then at least try to explore the possibility that maybe I am saying some truth, as ugly as it might sound.

and I still can't understand why the poor and bankrupt Greece manages to get at least some help for the people and other countries act like shitheads.
most of the people wanna go to Sweden or Germany and I am glad our borders are still open even though we have a strong right wing group which tries to change that.
just let them through.

At this point, I don't think Greece is even has any right to take a dump without Germany and co. agreeing to it. Greece and sovereignity are opposite expressions. As for the fence, there are two possibilities. When even pro-migrant countries are building fences despite initially giving all the crap they could find for us because of our fence, then:
1. They realized that it's necessary, because as much as they'd like to let everyone in, it needs to be systematic, not like in the Middle-Ages where nations simply marched into certain kingdoms' territories.
2. Germany is not the one driving in the wrong lane, she is the only one driving in the right lane.

I'd take a wild guess here, but let's say time will tell. And kinda already told.

[Exocet]

Found some statistics to show you're right.
There was always terror and killings but most of us were young or not even born then

The graph you displayed showed terrorism in Europe since 1970.
Prior to Madrid 2004 almost all of them were civil independence movements, ETA in Spain etc.

The UK was where the overwhelming number of terrorist incidents occured in Europe in 1970s and 80s.
This was the Irish Republican Army.
It was a civil conflict dating back nearly a thousand years.

It was NOTHING like this.
The Irish terrorists used to ring London police services informing them they were going to detonate a bomb 20 minutes before explosion. They would target London's financial centre to effect the stock market.
The death toll was rarely over 5-10 people.

This is different it is a global Jihadist insurgency.

Governments are spending Billions more on security than they did in the 1990s.

[reznovka]

[...]

But I have a question too! I could not find it in your profile, so I'm asking here: are you of age to vote? So in the next general election, will you be eligible to draw an X on the paper next to whatever is your country's main leftist party, who are probably sound like a broken record by now, repeatedly saying that we (well, you) must let everyone in, that's the right thing to do, screw those bad guys on the right, let's everyone adopt a refugee starting yesterday, if you disagree you are literally killing this little girl in this picture with her parents? I won't hold it against you until at least deep down you are willing to accept that you need to dig a pretty big hole in the ground so that you can pretend that this migrant situation is the easiest shit ever happened to Europe (btw call Merkel asap, she might want to hear some advices, it seemed rather tough for her) and contains absolutely no danger at all.

27 and yes I vote left. I don't have a perfect solution, but I think that has to be one and keeping victims of war outside isn't the right one.

How much money you have to spare? If you are not living from paycheck to paycheck, you have some. Even if you are putting some aside for a car, house, anything, you surely has some spare money. How much did you spend on the refugees? Did you send them your worn out clothes? Did you seek out options to house some of them for a while? Did you try to volunteer at one of the shelters? Did you try to look for some job for some of them? Did you buy at least a cup of hot tea for some of them during the winter? Hm?

Or is saving human lives means logging into internet boards, posting that we HAVE TO let EVERYONE in, then turn off the computer and continue living your life as you were, while these poor, ""saved"" migrants are even more lost here in the middle of paralyzed government and racism and terror-threats than they were out in the open? Do you have any idea how we might solve this? Or you close your eyes, count to three, and check the news again, seeing if maybe this time you can finally read something positive and promising?

Why don't we go further? Why don't we reach out to Africa? Is it because they are not coming? If they were coming, would you advocate to let them in? I'm talking about a few hundred thousand, or as Nyx would say, just 0.2%. Or is that different because they are a thirld world country, so they were basically born and raised in despair?

I am not rich but I earn enough do live a good life (good apartment, dog, good laptop, no car, enough to eat, some concerts per year, nin merch) and I donated clothes and hygiene articles and my hospital collected money for things the refugees need and I offered to help at the camp, but they already had enough nurses.
Africa has some countries where gays for example are hunted down and I think that those people need every help possible.
Christianity is a big problem there, because big parts of Africa are follow this religion and as long as the church bans condoms there will be more and more poor children. Like in Syria we have to cut the roots of the problem, not the leaves. Yeah we have to help everyone, as long as we have it better.

How is the rate of nationalities in your country? Is there any animosity? Are there nationalities which many look at as troublemakers? Is there tension? Has it ever resulted in violence?

Is there unemployement in your country? How bad is it?

I don't know about your country, so... do you have homeless people? How bad is poverty there? Can everyone manage more or less, or are there people, families out there who are not even sure if they'l have something to it next month? Do you have disabled people whom the government don't take proper care? You know, people who are not "enough" disabled to get as much money or care from the government so they can manage just fine, but it's crippling enough to make their life miserable. Do you have orphans in your country? How much? They would surely like to find a family to be raised up in, right? That's very important in a little child's life. They don't understand why "no one loves them."

Do you think about them? Do you think about the starving children in your country when you are talking about humanity and saving everyone, while migrants are being fed and taken care of for free? Would you have what it takes to make a speech while your audience would everyone I was talking about in the previous paragraph? "Mr. George! How's that leg? The son of a bitch still hurts, eh? But if you gotta work, you gotta work, am I right? Hey, Christine! Don't hide, I see you! How old are you again? 7, right? Are you eating a slice of bread?! A whole?! Christine, sharing is caring! Refugees are starving too. Frank, could you get out of your financial crisis? No?? Damn, they are taking the house? Must be hard on your wife and the kids. But damn, even harder on some of the refugees, I was thinking about sheltering some at your house, but I guess that's a no-go now. But hey, at least Gabriel here can give you some advice, isn't that right, Gabriel? Living on the streets for almost 10 whole years now! What a champ. Now, old fella, I wanted to ask you to try to be more invisible, because it's not good publicity to the refugees seeing you like... well, the way you are, you know? Well, everyone, it's been a blast! Not a blast like in Paris or Brussels though, but hey, you don't have to worry a thing about that. You have nothing to lose! Except you Luise, you still have your alcoholic father that beats you up every night, do you not? Anyway, another wave of refugees coming in, so please, welcome them with open hands! No, Dennis, no! Don't even start talking about your brother and how they beat him up last time. I'll have you know that you are a racist."

I live in a part where we have muslim boroughs and yes we have some tension, because of radicals, some religious and some right wing idiots who burn down camps and schools where the refugees live right now.
In Germany it's pretty easy to live without work, because the government pays EVERYBODY and gives you a free apartment.
We have some homeless people, but they wouldn't have to live on the street. Those people choose to live there, don't ask me why.
Every kid gets money. We have a strong economy and like I said - everybody gets money.
I know that it's easy as a german to act like this, but most of the refugees want to come to Germany because we have the money and the possibilities to help them.

You can't save everyone, and pretending you can does not make you a better person. Like, are you a good doctor if you hold back the information that someone has cancer? "Awww Volband, you told him?! Oh, you and your >>realistic<<, DUH, thinking. Once again you are being a fucking downer, telling people they will most likely die. Look at our patients, you moron! They keep smiling and hoping, completely unaware that they are basically already dead. Where is your humanity?"

No need for insults
I always call my doctors when we get the results of the kind of cancer (as a nurse I am not allowed to tell the people what they have) and I always take my time for the patients after the doctor told them their type of tumor.

I am really happy for you, that you are trying to believe, but sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes you are caught up in a lose-lose situation. Sometimes you can't save everyone. I'm not saying that you should accept everything I'm saying as law, but when basically everything backs up my claim that we are absolutely, horrendously incapable of handling this situation, then at least try to explore the possibility that maybe I am saying some truth, as ugly as it might sound.

At this point, I don't think Greece is even has any right to take a dump without Germany and co. agreeing to it. Greece and sovereignity are opposite expressions. As for the fence, there are two possibilities. When even pro-migrant countries are building fences despite initially giving all the crap they could find for us because of our fence, then:
1. They realized that it's necessary, because as much as they'd like to let everyone in, it needs to be systematic, not like in the Middle-Ages where nations simply marched into certain kingdoms' territories.
2. Germany is not the one driving in the wrong lane, she is the only one driving in the right lane.

I'd take a wild guess here, but let's say time will tell. And kinda already told.

I said some posts before that I know how shitty the situation for Europe and especially Greece is right now and I absolutely no fan of he way Germany treats some countries.

[Nyx]

To answer your questions, Vollband, I am 33 and have voted many times now, obviously for left parties, I don't really see your point? We have laws about accepting refugees. You can't have those laws and then stop upholding them the minute actual refugees show up. Yes, integration is a problem, has been a problem and will probably continue to be a problem in Europe, for a while. Mainly due to ghettoisation of migrants, discrimination and violence towards them, etc.. It's a complex issue that can't be solved by "let's take in the women and children since they are easier to bully, the rest can fuck off". The chaos we are witnessing now has nothing to do with the refugees and largely to do with EU's complete lack of strategy and subsequently panicking at its outermost borders. Refugees aren't rioting because they feel entitled to your women, jobs and houses but because they are sitting out in the cold and rain and getting no information as to why they are not allowed in or how long they are supposed to stay in limbo. And yes, you are correct, being from where I am, I know all about ethnic tensions, but also about successful integration. I have neighbours and friends from all over former Yugoslavia, from all religious denominations, a lot of them came to this country as refugees from the Balkan war(s). Speaking of which, do you know how many of those refugees Slovenia (population 2 million) hosted in 1991? 70.000 (that's 3% of population, 70% of them were Muslim). Most of them left after the war was over..but a lot of them stayed. Now people are acting like it's end of the world because we're supposed to take in couple of hundred of them... Completely ridiculous.

[reznovka]

The graph you displayed showed terrorism in Europe since 1970.
Prior to Madrid 2004 almost all of them were civil independence movements, ETA in Spain etc.

The UK was where the overwhelming number of terrorist incidents occured in Europe in 1970s and 80s.
This was the Irish Republican Army.
It was a civil conflict dating back nearly a thousand years.

It was NOTHING like this.
The Irish terrorists used to ring London police services informing them they were going to detonate a bomb 20 minutes before explosion. They would target London's financial centre to effect the stock market.
The death toll was rarely over 5-10 people.

This is different it is a global Jihadist insurgency.

Governments are spending Billions more on security than they did in the 1990s.

You're absolutely right and I can't deny that the kind of terror we're facing right now is cruel and dangerous as f***.
I just wanted to show that terror was always there.
Germany had the left terror group RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion) and they bombed shopping malls when those were empty at night and kidnapped bosses from banks and news papers to reach their goals.
Now everyone could be a victim. I am afraid too.
But I still think that we have to stick together, Europe, muslims, christians, jews, just everybody, because when we start to blame every muslim and push them into a corner, IS gets what they want.

[DigitalChaos]

"investigators found 33 pounds of homemade explosives at a house used by the two bombers who struck Brussels Airport" http://www.businessinsider.com/bruss...l-bombs-2016-3


Holy fuck, this is a lot of TATP, especially to just be hanging out unused. I wonder where the hell they were making it and what they were going to do with the rest.

This is the same stuff that was used in France. Easier to make than a martini (you just mix peroxide and acetone with a little acid), and doesn't register on any of the current explosives tests. It's dangerous as hell to work with though.

[reznovka]

the problem is that they can make this everywhere and the ingridients are easy to get. it's sad but they aren't stupid enough to just bomb themselves while building those...