Bite me
She was here on a K1 visa from Pakistan, he met her online but then they met in person in Saudi Arabia. He's made two trips to Saudi in the last 2 yrs (1 for the Haj) and 1 to Pakistan. Authorities are saying he became "radicalized" over the course of the last few years.Originally Posted by DigitalChaos
Throbbing Member
The thing is.. your not a stupid nation...you pioneered space exploration, Nasa is the envy of the world, you invented the Nuclear bomb, you dominate the internet you excel in so many areas.
Yet you have the most retarded gun laws in the world....
Its like seeing a smart person self destructing.
Bite me
We DON'T have bad gun laws, that's the thing ... I think people outside of this country just don't know enough about this country to understand that our Constitution provides for "State's Rights" which is a very sticky issue supported by the United States Supreme Court, so each state has its own gun laws which cannot be totally controlled Federally. And most states have very strict gun laws but some don't have gun laws THAT strict but they still have pretty strict gun laws, and right now there is a lack of Internet gun regulations which is stupid, and even when we had a total ban on assault weapons, we still had this problem, and even when the City of Chicago banned guns for over 40 years, Chicago still had the highest number of gun deaths in the country. We DON'T have "retarded" gun laws, that's the thing. Most of our gun laws are actually very very strict. But we can't seem to stop people from doing this shit. Paris had this giant shooting with very strict gun laws, case in point. In the U.S., people are smuggling in guns illegally, from states and countries with less strict gun laws. People are making their own ammo. They are buying the guns online. We are a very violent country, and this particular shooting was likely related to Islamic terrorism, too.
And, you have to remember that a lot of the reason why people in this country continue to want to "bear arms" is related to the Civil War, wherein the South was fighting against the Government; and that NEVER WENT AWAY.
Last edited by allegro; 12-03-2015 at 11:20 PM.
Throbbing Member
...
Last edited by Dr Channard; 09-04-2018 at 01:09 PM.
Bite me
But these people this week had PIPE BOMBS. LOTS of them. While I am all for gun control, I am not so naive to not know that the guns are just a symptom and not a cause. Again, we are a VIOLENT country by disposition; we have been for 100s of years.
Bottom line is that the vast majority of gun owners in this country are not going to buy assault weapons, or stockpile ammo, or buy extra magazines, and most American citizens are FOR gun control because it will not affect them at all; they can still keep their own gun.
The SCOTUS has already viewed the 2nd Amendment as an evolving, organic piece of law; and has redefined it as same; and has upheld it.
Modern gun control laws are being controlled by gun manufacturer lobbyists, plain and simple. These lobbyists pay Congress members to make sure that assault weapon and high-capacity magazine sales are not affected. It's all about money and pocket-lining.
And so long as the People have zero trust in the Government, their "need" to protect themselves from the Government (and all other boogeymen) won't change soon.
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 12:09 AM.
Active Member
I don't know man, I'm pretty sure mocking speed limit rethoric in a Cars thread after a guy rams his SUV in a crowd of people wouldn't sound right either.
Throbbing Member
...
Last edited by Dr Channard; 09-04-2018 at 01:09 PM.
Active Member
Your last several posts are filled with extremely solid points. I just want to pull this bit out and connect it back in with your other comments about the culture in the US. I am assuming you are mostly referring to the NRA here. The NRA gets a lot of hate every time a shooting happens. They are viewed as some evil entity that is funded by "the corporations" and thus a corruption of democracy. I don't like the NRA, but that's a bunch of bullshit. Almost all of the NRA's funds (90%) come from their 5 million members and a shitload of individual donations that average $35 per. There is a small portion of funding that comes from corporate sources, but that is separated from any political action (by law).
The gun control lobbies are MUCH more funded by a small number of deep pockets (Bloomberg, etc). So, like it or not, the NRA is much more representative of "the people" (and gun control lobbies less so) than most want to admit.
Bite me
Well, no. Only a handful of states (out of 50) don't require gun owners to first register with the state, with photo IDs, submit to background checks and then use those IDs to purchase guns or ammo, and those same IDs are pulled in an up-to-date database if the ID-holder has an Order of Protection against him/her, is convicted of a felony, etc.
These databases, however, do not have the power of ESP. They don't know that a citizen with a perfect record will buy a gun and shoot his coworkers at a news station. They don't know that a mother in Connecticut with a clean record will buy a gun and then her mentally ill son will steal the gun from a locked cabinet, kill his mother and then kill a bunch of school children.
(For the record, mental health records are protected by Federal privacy laws so the Government cannot legally require mental health professionals to submit data about their patients to any gun owner database; therefore, any mental health info is voluntary, from the potential gun owner, via a questionnaire, in states that include that info in background checks, which is most states. But, that person can lie, travel to another state that requires only a driver's licence and a felony check, or steal a family member's gun.)
Contrary to popular belief, there are very few "loopholes" except for Internet sales which imo should be banned. There has been pushback to change, e.g. the United States Supreme Court has already stated in opinions (and by its refusal to hear cases related to same) that it does NOT consider that the 2nd Amendment extends to high capacity weapons or magazines ("assault weapons"). Polls have shown that there are more voters against these weapons than for, but these politicians spin it so that they are afraid of losing the next vote when in fact they are afraid of losing MONEY for the next election.
See also the PLCAA. See also this. And this. See this. See this. And see this.
For starters, the dollars and cents disparities are nothing short of staggering. The NRA and its allies in the firearms industries, along with the even more militant Gun Owners of America, have together poured nearly $81 million into House, Senate and presidential races since the 2000 election cycle, according to federal disclosures and a Center for Responsive Politics analysis done for the Center for Public Integrity.
The bulk of the cash — more than $46 million — has come in the form of independent expenditures made since court decisions in 2010 (especially the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision) essentially redefined electoral politics. Those decisions allowed individuals, corporations, associations and unions to make unlimited “independent” expenditures aimed at electing or defeating candidates in federal elections, so long as the expenditures were not “coordinated” with a candidate’s actual campaign.
In the decade before Citizens United, from the 2000 election cycle to 2010, much of the money was donated directly to campaigns. During that period, pro-gun interests so thoroughly dominated electoral spending as to render gun control forces all but irrelevant, having directly donated fully 28 times the amount of their opponents in House and Senate races, $7 million on the pro-gun side compared to $245,000 on the gun control side. Of the total expended by gun rights interests, fully $3.9 million was delivered by the NRA. Since the Citizens United decision, gun control interests have gained new financial muscle, thanks largely to independent expenditures totaling at least $11.6 million by activist New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and groups tied to Bloomberg — nothing to sneeze at, but still just a fraction of that $46 million in post-2010 gun rights money.
If by "retarded" laws you mean "inconsistent across all 50 states," then, yes, that's true. Assault weapons bans aren't even consistent within one state right now, as individual municipalities ban them within each state.
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 09:24 AM.
Active Member
Photo shop fail
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/d...-media-7828972
This pol is quite an idiot in sooooo many ways.
Active Member
Huh? I've never heard of this. It definitely doesn't exist for California residents. Are you referring to private sales? (Commonly mislabeled as "gunshow loophole").
Another "loophole" you could add is when someone creates their own gun. That's completely legal as long as they aren't doing so for personal use and they aren't restricted from gun ownership. There was a shooting in recent years where the guns were made instead of purchased.
That's just federal level. There are tons of loopholes at the state and local level. Every one I am aware of exists because gun control advocates have no idea what they are doing, not corruption by gun-rights advocates or gun mfg lobbying.
Last edited by DigitalChaos; 12-04-2015 at 11:25 AM.
Bite me
See this...
Active Member
ah yes, it's the private sale situation. Firearms dealers have no way of utilizing this. There is also nothing legally attached to the internet; it's just one of the many ways that private sellers can find private buyers. Internet forums, instagram, gun shows, classified ads, etc. They are just mediums that facilitate the connection of interested parties. The actual transaction must follow the same laws no matter where that connection occurs.
Active Member
what the hell is this?!
http://www.dailywire.com/news/1608/m...tv-ben-shapiro
That's nearly some Nightcrawler stuff right there. The investigation was, supposedly, already done but hooooly fuck what are they doing broadcasting all that?
Bite me
Okay so you didn't read that article I linked.
I was nobody. Nothing.
I'm with you guys on this one, @Deepvoid , @allegro ...
i, too am all for common sense gun control.
But no legislation is gonna stop this trend (short of rounding up every gun in the country, and we don't want THAT shit.)
I lived in a lot of ghetto ass places in dallas, and it was like "say man, if you need a piece, hit up apartment 321" and shit like that. Keep in mind that i've been forcibly committed before...i don't THINK i'm supposed to be able to buy a gun. No gun control is going to fix this. Guns exist. Thinking that gun laws will stop shootings is like thinking that drug prohibition was gonna work, you know?
Why does this shit happen here?
Why is the gun murder rate in detroit equal to that of fucking El Salvador, when just a few miles north in toronto, it's been pretty much a non issue for most of my lifetime?
I recently read that if New Orleans was a country, it would have the 2nd highest rate of gun violence in the world. Keep in mind that this includes places like Colombia and Somalia.
And this mass shooting thing has become as American as apple pie and baseball. This article explores it a bit, as did Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine." The pieces are thought provoking, especially BFC, but no one has a definitive answer.
This shooting made me cry. These were people who helped others for a living, and had gotten together for a holiday party. I can see their smiling faces as they talk about holiday plans, and see those smiles turn to horror. I can hear them begging not to be hurt, saying that they have children waiting for them to get home.
My heart is broken...again.
What's it gonna take?!
And if Ben Carson blames the victims again like he did at that other shooting, he better steer clear of me, on the cool.
Active Member
THIS is your fucking media
Last edited by DigitalChaos; 12-05-2015 at 09:32 AM.
Bite me
@elevenism , this was beyond a mass shooting. This was an act of terrorism, like the one in Paris. The difference is that we have so many shootings, here (as I pointed out after the Paris shooting), it's like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." Nobody knows or cares about the difference between an angry-person shooting or a fame-seeking shooting or an Islamic-terrorist-motivated attack; they're just all "shootings." Even this one, where the people had 3,000 rounds of ammo stockpiled in the apartment along with an IED factory and 60 bombs and contact with a known terrorist group. Nope, just another shooting. I live in "Chi-raq" with more gun deaths than Americans killed in Iraq. But because they aren't "mass shootings" nobody seems to care as much.
This is a really interesting article.
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 04:03 PM.
Active Member
I sure did. Is there something you are misinterpreting? I know exactly what armslist is and it's just as I described: a mere classified listing.
Finding out about guns for sale via the internet changes nothing. It's the same as if they were doing it in person. A private seller must follow all gun sales laws in their jurisdiction. A private buyer must follow all gun laws in their jurisdiction. If there is cross-jurisdiction laws, those must be followed too. Firearms dealers are required to follow all the same laws that they are required to if it were a sale in their store. No loophole.
I was nobody. Nothing.
True, true.
Act of terrorism or not though, it still brings up some of the same issues. These guns and ammo were bought LEGALLY, no? The shooters were american citizens, the husband worked for the company, it seems that he had trouble with people at work, and most importantly of all, pundits and politicians are using these dead people to promote their agendas.
I have to wonder if he BECAME radicalized BECAUSE of trouble at work.
IS hasn't claimed responsibility.
I see elements of both types of incident in this event, but maybe i'm wrong.
I will say this: this was not the strike IS has been threatening.
I anticipate multiple, coordinated attacks with a much greater loss of life. I can FEEL it.
Bite me
The wife was a Pakistani citizen here on a K1 visa, he brought her home from Saudi. The FBI is still tracing the guns, don't know if they were bought legally, same with the ammo, the bombs were homemade using tools bought on the internet. He became radicalized after being to Saudi 2x and Pakistan 1x and meeting with various people on the internet. This is all on TV and in the papers, don't you have a TV, dude? His wife was at the party and somebody said something bad about radical Islam. His work was not likely their initial target but they had a sudden change of plans. He worked for the Health Dept testing public pool water.
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 04:28 PM.
Bite me
But they aren't following those laws, hence how a guy in IL with an Order of Protection against him (who could not buy a gun or ammo because of the Order of Protection that would prevent or suspend a FOID card) used Armslist to buy a gun and ammo via Armslist and then shot and killed his wife.
We can't STOP all private sales where people aren't following the laws and selling to felons, etc. But we can certainly make it a fuckload less easy by banning it on the internet, kinda like we try to do with drug sales.
Gun sales should occur through licensed dealers. Period. If a private seller wants to sell a gun, he should only be able to do it via a licensed dealer. Period. Gun and ammo sales should occur face-to-face, in person, and only with the person purchasing the gun and ammo (no strawmen, etc.)
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 04:38 PM.
I was nobody. Nothing.
hell yes i have a tv (although i only use it to watch my roku box there is a live news channel, but sheap is asleep in the hay in the bedroom.)
A lot of this information has just become available in the past couple of hours. (see this timeline.) The FBI only declared this an act of terrorism 3 hours ago.
And as of an hour ago, the FBI doesn't know if the couple was radicalized abroad. And they are saying that they DID amass their arsenal legally.
Jesus, i don't want to argue with you @allegro . You are half the reason i'm here.
I'm just saying that, while this is an act of terror, it also appears to share some similarities with the "workplace violence" type of shooting, and has DEFINITELY been treated as such by the politicians and media to a certain degree.
Bite me
The wife pledged allegiance to ISIS in a Facebook post. The rifles were purchased by a BROTHER. It doesn't matter if they were radicalized here or abroad. The wife has only lived here 6 months but arrived a year ago (before that, she lived in Saudi and in Pakistan). They were married in Saudi Arabia. The wife did not work there in that building, nor did any of them; they were renting that facility for a holiday party. The wife did not work for the Health Dept., she was a stay-at-home mom; only the husband did. Experts are speculating that the group was a perfect target because they were unsuspecting.
Not EVERY act of Islamic extremist terrorism is directed or ordered by ISIS. But ISIS is now acknowledging that the act was committed by "two followers."
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 05:39 PM.
I was nobody. Nothing.
I'm surprised that they haven't taken credit for it. They've taken credit for shit they clearly found out about at the same time the rest of us did, like that attempt in my old hometown of Garland.
also, this dude is CLEARLY LYING
Bite me
Nah, that's the brother IN LAW (like, the husband's sister's brother), they really didn't appear to know anything at all.
I guess ISIS is "encouraging" self-directed independent actions in the U.S.: "find a vulnerable and unsuspecting target and go after it." So Ted Cruz's plan of arming people for self-defense won't really work. Who takes guns for self-protection to an office Christmas party when you work for the County Health Dept.?
Answer: Nobody, except the terrorists.
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 05:56 PM.
Active Member
Unless there is something I don't know about IL laws, the Internet allows for no legal difference. It sounds like your issue is with private sales being more relaxed than dealer sales. But that's exactly what I've been saying: that applies to all private sales, not just Internet sales (or the commonly talked about gun show).
If you are saying that the Internet makes it easier for people to break the existing laws, that's not a loophole.
Active Member
You uhhhh ever been to a gun friendly state? People who conceal carry do it constantly. It's no different than having their car keys on them. Fuck, I know people who carry inside of multi-football-field-sized data centers that rarely have more than a handful of people inside at a time.
This seems super silly to people who don't carry, but you need to realize the culture of the people who are making these statements.
I was nobody. Nothing.
i still think he knows something.
And hell no Cruz's plan won't work. This isn't supposed to be a fucking BATTLEFIELD, you know what i mean?
The only time i think the "good guy with a gun" thing might work is with INSANELY carefully vetted armed guards at high risk locations such as schools and sporting events.
I'd bet my bottom dollar that if a terrorist ran up on Ted Cruz, he would cry and beg for his life, armed or not.
Please accept my apology on behalf of the State of Texas for the existence of Ted Cruz (although he was secretly born in Canada, i guess he developed his God Forsaken ideology down here. He's a CUBAN-CANADIAN.) Also, his original nickname was Felito. I'm not sure, but i THINK that's a word that's used in ritual magick to summon lesser demons like Imps (which Cruz is-at least HALF imp anyway.)
He's another fake Texan like W and GHW.
At some point it has to cross your mind that this dude graduated cum laude from princeton and magna cum laude from harvard with a DOCTORATE in law. So how..but..he...the...siiiiiiiigh.
Bite me
Every lawyer gets a Juris Doctorate. That's how they become lawyers. All lawyers have a J.D.
Obama graduated Summa Cum Laude from Harvard with a J.D.
Summa trumps Magna.
(I graduated Magna Cum Laude but I was carrying a double major and a minor so that's my excuse, lol.)
I only dislike Cruz because of his Tea Party shit and the religious nut job shit. But he's a brilliant legal mind. And I saw an interview with him, recently, where he went into this portion of the musical "Oliver!" from high school that was priceless. He's a total awesome Drama Nerd.
Last edited by allegro; 12-04-2015 at 06:31 PM.
Posting Permissions
Likes: 
Faceplams: 
Reply With Quote
