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Thread: Magic: The Gathering

  1. #1
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    Magic: The Gathering

    Does anyone else play? I recently got back into it after playing at the Emerald City Comic-con and I'm already hooked. The new set is pretty awesome and learning all the different types of games that are being played has been interesting.

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    My friends and I do a draft each time a new set comes out. We used to play every week or two, but as we've gotten older, our busy schedules prevents us from doing that. I still love to play when I get a chance, though. My card collection got out of control for awhile, and I found myself with way too many cards. I ended up selling most back as singles and now I have a few decks I rotate between.

    The new set (and block as a whole) is awesome. I like it when the sets have darker themes, so Khans/Fate/Dragons was awesome. I had high hopes for the Theros block because I love mythology, but the set was definitely a let down.

    I play a lot of Hearthstone (made by Blizzard) because I can do it on my computer or tablet, it's similar to MtG, and you don't have to carry around cards with you. Gets me my card-playing fix.

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    Ive been winding down but i still play regularly.

    I mostly play EDH but my core play group and I got fed up with prices, so a lot of times we just proxy entire decks.

    I do have some fancy stuff though. My flagship deck is an all foil Niv Mizzet deck worth some like $2000.
    I also play Angus Mckensie, Purphoros, a Planeswalker themed Child of Alara deck, and Narset

    I also have what is possibly the world finest collection of planeswalkers. Every single printing of evwry single one in a playset, in foil, and complete with artist proofs, misprints, alters, autographs.

    So this is what its like when i play magic "lightly"

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    I used to play, i liked the game but being "up to date" with the new sets and expansions is far too expensive, also i couldn't find players near my area... sad

    I was about to buy the 2014 core set, last time i saw it in my local comic store, then i remembered i got no one to play ...bummer.

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    Nerrrrrrrrrrrrds I am one of you

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    Just got off the phone with Wizards of the Coast and they sure do know how to take care of their customers. I called in to see if they could help me out with the purchase I had just made on monday. I bought a Fate Reforged fat pack and ended up with duplicates of the rares which all sucked.



    I was curious to see if they would be willing to exchange my opened packs for some sealed ones so I could get more of a variety, but sadly they said they don't do that sort of thing unless the cards were damaged during the packing process. I went on to say that I understood that and ended up talking with my CS rep on the phone for a little bit after that. I talked about how I first started playing back in '93-'94 during "Revised" and how I was just getting back into MtG now after playing in a two-headed giant game at the Seattle comic-con last month. After that, she asked me to hold on for a second and then came back to say that she was handing me off to her manager. After sharing with him that I had a poor experience with the fat pack I purchased, he too went on to say that they don't offer replacement packs unless there was a manufacturer defect, but since I was getting back into the game and he wanted to make sure I had a good experience while doing so, he offered to send me a couple of packs to make up for the weird packing issue with my fat pack! I told him that I really appreciated his offer and thanked him for offering to send me some free packs. He told me that the only reason why he was doing this was 1) I was coming back to MtG and he wanted to make sure that I was taken care of, and 2) he wanted to help me out since I never once raised my voice and accepted the fact that they do not do replacements for something like this.

    This experience alone has made me even more pumped to get back into playing and will most likely dump a bunch of money this upcoming friday for FNM!!

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    Stocking the planeswalker binder is costing me $250 this month.... Ugh

    Liliana of the Veil Pro tour promo
    Karn Liberated Modern masters
    Tezzeret the Seeker Modern Masters.

    July is going to be a nightmare: five planeswalkers and a comic con exclusive.... I might have to pick up the comic con set and exercise some patience.

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    Here are two decks in currently tweaking for standard.....




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    God this thread makes me wish I had the time and money to get back into this game.

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    "Ball Lightning", i remember that card!

    EDIT: What are the cards on the right? the illustrated cards with no instructions on it...
    Last edited by henryeatscereal; 05-01-2015 at 09:50 PM.

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    I recently have a newfound interest in the game. My girlfriend's son is big into it and had got me interested in trying it. I bought a 2014 core deckbuilder's set and an intro pack a while back but hadn't done much since. I checked their website recently and it seems they have come a long way in presenting archive databases of card sets and card rules since I first started. So I have a pretty good handle on how they have changed the way they release sets now and some of the new card mechanics. I am still a bit sloppy with game mechanics and creating combos but I do love the flexibility and flow of the game. Spending the money is the hard part but it is clearly a cheaper and less time-consuming alternative to Warhammer 40K.

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    Cross-posted from parts appearing in the "Police Murdering Black People" and the "Random General Headlines" threads. Here was the original exchange.

    Quote Originally Posted by versusreality View Post
    Meanwhile, Trump today is saying he is "not even considering" changing Fort names named after Confederates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I saw that. Because they’re a part of a long history of winning...except, you know, the battles and war they themselves lost.

    White people in this country won’t give anything up—an unannotated easy access streaming copy of Gone With the Wind; one paper bill with a Black person on it or, failing that, maybe one fewer slavemaster; new names for military bases or fewer monuments for Americans who fought to keep people enslaved.

    I think it would be fascinating to have a Black American ask Trump directly, “What will you give us?” Much like a “Pay What You Want” campaign for an album, I think it would be enlightening to see plain and bare just how paltry the things on the offering block would be.

    ”We already gave you people a history month and BET, now you’re just being greedy.”

    Do better, America.
    And here's the rest.

    The collectible card game Magic: The Gathering just banned seven racist cards, including one called Invoke Prejudice (1994), which prominently features Klan members in its card image and was, in fact, drawn by a bona fide white supremacist.

    Some white people who play the game—and some white people who don't play the game at all—are annoyed by even this. These cards all date from at least 23 years ago and most if not all of them have been out of print since then. Invoke Prejudice was a controversial gaffe even then. But players I've seen have run the gamut from "This is dumb and will just make people want them more" to "Why does my card game have to be about race?"

    Seriously. What fucking crumb would white people be willing to give? What tiny sharp edge would we be willing to slightly file down? Is anything small enough to be just okay without grumbling? Stopping the police from murdering Black Americans in the streets for no reason is too much. Okay, sure. How about we don't allow the Magic: The Gathering card drawn by a white supremacist, which prominently features Ku Klux Klan members in its image, to be legally played in any official tournament format and we take its image down from the gallery?" Still too much? I see.

    It's also worth noting that Wizards of the Coast, who publishes the game, didn't do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They've been asked to do something about at least Invoke Prejudice for 26 years and always said some variation of, "We'd like to, but we can't." And then this letter hit Twitter two days ago, from a former editor at two leading Magic: The Gathering websites.

    After this letter, from a week ago.

    These are both long reads that only make a lot of sense if you understand Magic as a game, but the gist is exactly what you think it is—"we're not hiring" for persons of color, then white people are hired the same week; persons of color being offered contract or consultant roles, but being fired or let go instead of being offered full-time positions which were instead filled by white people from outside the company; persons of color neglected in game storylines and, when they're present, being inserted as Magical Negroes, slaves, or, essentially, gangbangers; persons of color told "You're reaching" when they complain about things; a top tier player of color not being asked to tournaments until some in the community get loud enough wondering why your fifth-highest ranked player wouldn't be asked and, when he finally wins, being pointed to as a clear indicator of how diverse the Wizards business place and gamesphere really is. You already know how it works before you read it (but you should read it).

    So, in response to growing hubbub about racist practices and ways, Wizards removed seven card images from its online database and banned those seven cards (7/~20,000) to avoid being the target of even larger scorn. It was almost literally actually the least they could do and it was done to cover their asses. But it was still too much for many white players. And, let's not forget, white nonplayers who suddenly care deeply about the game.

    Oh, it's also worth knowing that the "Multiverse ID"—the official gallery number all MTG cards are assigned when added to the online database of all extant cards—for that Klan-themed Invoke Prejudice card? 1488.

    Sure. All the Magic: The Gathering players of color were being too sensitive and "reaching" for examples of racism. Sure.

    Do better, gamers.

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    Yeah MTG players, at least a good portion of the online community, is one big outrage mob, so I don't blame WTC (or Hasbro), for trying to be proactive. Especially when their profits are at risk. Are some of these cards distasteful in today's climate? Yeah, but by trying to erase them from history doesn't help anyone.

    With that being said, I wish I knew about this thread! I've been playing and collecting MTG since 1995! Mostly casual/collecting these days, but I finally had the money to build myself a Legacy Reanimator deck (damn Force of Wills!)
    Last edited by SM Rollinger; 06-11-2020 at 07:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    Are some of these cards distasteful in today's climate? Yeah, but by trying to erase them from history doesn't help anyone.
    They were ALWAYS DISTASTEFUL. RACISM IS EVIL. Again with the "erase from history" straw man, yeesh. It's a fucking trading card game. For children 10+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    They were ALWAYS DISTASTEFUL. RACISM IS EVIL. Again with the "erase from history" straw man, yeesh. It's a fucking trading card game. For children 10+.
    Gee thanks, I didn't know that. Thanks for educating me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    Yeah MTG players, at least a good portion of the online community, is one big outrage mob, so I don't blame WTC (or Hasbro), for trying to be proactive. Especially when their profits are at risk. Are some of these cards distasteful in today's climate? Yeah, but by trying to erase them from history doesn't help anyone.
    As @botley said, those cards were always awful, but worse yet - the letters linked above indicate a racist climate at the company, itself, that goes far beyond the “don’t rock the gamer boat” explanation, and points more to the “WTC *itself* is racist” option. Also, yes history is full of awful racism and it’s a civilized society’s job to rub it out and not utilize it in any form.

    As @Sesquipedalism said, white people just don’t seem to want to budge on the smallest of “sacrifices.” We just can’t see how much we suck. There’s always some excuse. Like “history.” Or “culture” e.g. Confederate flag, which is also a symbol of TREASON. Or, “my collection.”

    /drift
    Last edited by allegro; 06-11-2020 at 10:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Nerrrrrrrrrrrrds I am one of you
    Jason?

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    It's just easier to "ban" and "erase" things, than to educate people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    Yeah, but by trying to erase them from history doesn't help anyone.
    The people who have been vocal about asking for them to be removed from legal play and, at the very least, visually removed from Gatherer, would argue that it helps them. It helps them feel more welcome to the game. They spoke up and said specifically this would be helpful to them. From Lawrence Harmon's open letter to Wizards of the Coast, "You have to understand that actions, or lack thereof, speak louder than words, and the general apathy towards black MTG players has sent a resounding and clear message of 'we don't care'. I wish this statement was hyperbole, but every black player I've personally spoken with has reflected this mindset."
    So, can't this move just be okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    It's just easier to "ban" and "erase" things, than to educate people...
    Educate them how, exactly? Explain how Invoke Prejudice or Imprison is in poor taste? I think they're saying all they need to say on that front by saying, "People find these cards racially offensive, we either concur or have at least listened to these complaints and decided to take them seriously, and are making them illegal for tournament play and visually removing their images from our online database."

    If you instead mean "educate people" in a broader sense, I don't think anyone's suggesting it stop with seven rarely used cards being banned—absolutely not—but not having these cards be legal and visually represented is almost literally the least Wizards they could do. This absolutely was easier than doing anything else, I agree. But the turnaround from those letters hitting the internet was nine and two days, respectively, so hopefully this is just a very tiny first step. A lot more concerted effort needs to be put in—fair hiring practices, more inclusive (or just less demeaning) storylines for future expansion sets, and so on. I certainly hope that they will do all of this and more moving forward, because I still enjoy the game...when I can find someone willing to play Vintage...who is also as bad as I am. Which, excluding my wife, is once every five years.

    If you take a look at those previously referenced letters that prompted Wizards to make this move, I think everyone upset by things like these seven cards would very much concur with the idea that it's easier to ban than to educate, and would prefer that the company do more, but I don't think any of them would say that they shouldn't do both.

    From Lawrence Harmon's open letter, here's nine (and a half) asks from the players & judges of color community to Wizards of the Coast. All of these would be less easy than just banning cards, but all of them can start immediately.
    ______________

    • Stop treating black players like second class citizens.
    • Stop pandering to black people.
    • Stop putting a spotlight on the black player base only when societal pressures force you to do so.
    • Stop spouting half assed platitudes and engaging in worthless slacktivism.
    • Stop using the promotion of women and the LGBTQ+ community as an excuse to ignore Magic's other minority groups.


    • Start promoting black content creators
    • Start promoting MORE black players who are excelling in the competitive sphere.
    • Start hiring more black people in public-facing positions.
    • Start reaching out to the black playerbase and asking how you can assist.


    P.S. I swear to God that I had better never see Jace in a Dashiki.
    ______________

    But, to my original point, this would absolutely constitute a large change in their flawed systems. It would be uncomfortable. It would produce some awkward and probably cringey moments. It should still happen. And, until it does, can we please just agree that not allowing seven old-ass, out-of-print, racially-insensitive-to-outright-racist cards being no longer tournament legal and not visually represented in the online database is an okay concession to make for the sake of Magic: The Gathering's players and judges of color?



  20. #20
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    Yeah, even back in high school in 1994 I knew Invoke Prejudice was wrong....I have a hard time understanding how it saw print, even back then. And then to read about some of the public statements that the artist has made, it's pretty terrible.

    I remember sitting down to trade with a few players and seeing the card on the front page of their binders. It made me uncomfortable, and I'd imagine it made black people feel a lot worse than that.

    The thing that always struck me, was that many players seemed to take joy in offending others, or in crossing lines. I haven't been to a paper event in a long time, but when I was going, vendors were often selling (and players were buying) playmats with mostly naked anime women on them. Players were putting Invoke Prejudice in the front page of their binders. One guy showed up with a t-shirt that said "make me a sandwich".

    And it didn't seem to be a lack of social awareness that was allowing people to do this, the people seemed to be actually taking joy in doing things that were upsetting to others.

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    I get the Invoke Prejudice, that needs to go, but Cleanse isn't offensive. When I think of black decks in the game I think of Vampires/Bats and shit, it's always had an underlining theme of the Undead. As for the other cards in question, I too feel like those are not offensive. It's apart of the lore of the game and each card has a place in the story...i dunno, I'm still a little undecided on this but I am leaning towards the side of "most of these wouldn't bother people"

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    It's apart of the lore of the game and each card has a place in the story...i dunno,I'm still a little undecided on this but I am leaning towards the side of "most of these wouldn't bother people"
    But the point is, they did. They bothered some people. People asked for this. It bothered them on a racial level. In America, the Black community—despite what some people would love for everyone to think—really kind of pick and choose their battles because, well, there's other shit in the day and there isn't time to fight them all.

    Persons of color in the Magic community were bothered by this, in a racial sense, and they asked for this. It's seven cards. And it's not about you. I return to my original point. Isn't this maybe small enough that everyone could just say, "Okay. Sure. It's almost the least we could do."

    It's not always a slippery slope, it's not always erasing history—the lore of the game will be just fine without these seven cards. And it's not about your feelings at this moment. It's consideration. It was asked for. And it's a really fucking small matter, in the grand scheme of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    Cleanse isn't offensive. When I think of black decks in the game I think of Vampires/Bats and shit, it's always had an underlining theme of the Undead.
    Where Cleanse is concerned, I think it's just the word. A lot of people of color the world over have been killed under the banner of "cleansing." I think a functional reprint of the card with a different name is a simple and fine solution. In Magic, the white slice of the color pie needs to be able to deal with the black slice. I get it. Avoid the word "cleanse" when it's used with the phrase "destroy all Black creatures." Easy enough. Not a big ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    As for the other cards in question, I too feel like those are not offensive.
    Again, this isn't about your feelings at the moment. We're now discussing five cards. Of 20,000. That everyone is still welcome to play with, outside of tournaments. Can't this just be okay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    But the point is, they did. They bothered some people. People asked for this. It bothered them on a racial level. In America, the Black community—despite what some people would love for everyone to think—really kind of pick and choose their battles because, well, there's other shit in the day and there isn't time to fight them all.

    Persons of color in the Magic community were bothered by this, in a racial sense, and they asked for this. It's seven cards. And it's not about you. I return to my original point. Isn't this maybe small enough that everyone could just say, "Okay. Sure. It's almost the least we could do."

    It's not always a slippery slope, it's not always erasing history—the lore of the game will be just fine without these seven cards. And it's not about your feelings at this moment. It's consideration. It was asked for. And it's a really fucking small matter, in the grand scheme of things.



    Where Cleanse is concerned, I think it's just the word. A lot of people of color the world over have been killed under the banner of "cleansing." I think a functional reprint of the card with a different name is a simple and fine solution. In Magic, the white slice of the color pie needs to be able to deal with the black slice. I get it. Avoid the word "cleanse" when it's used with the phrase "destroy all Black creatures." Easy enough. Not a big ask.


    Again, this isn't about your feelings at the moment. We're now discussing five cards. Of 20,000. That everyone is still welcome to play with, outside of tournaments. Can't this just be okay?
    I'm all for updating texts and what not, that's cool with me, but like you pointed out, there are bigger fish to fry than a card game. I know I will never understand the pain the black community has gone through, but I do understand the need for change and I support what is happening right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    but like you pointed out, there are bigger fish to fry than a card game
    This is absolutely true, but I mean it more broadly than this.

    If we're willing to have a discussion as a society about things like reforming an inherently racist policing and judicial system, representation in media, the reality of equal opportunity hiring practices, and stepping up from "not racist" to "actively anti-racist"—which, as the past few weeks have proven, we apparently are—then I think we should, as white Americans laden with saddlebags full of privilege to not put up a fight on all of these smaller fish.

    Even if every state and the U.S. government each passed 100 laws working to ensure equal access to high-quality education, truly equal job opportunities, and unbiased police houses and courtrooms, it's not going to be a reality in the near future. This shit is so big, it's a generational fight. It needs to start somewhere, but we won't see real, lasting effects of policy and structural changes until most of the people in positions of power accept actual equality as normal.

    In the meantime, these small fish issues can and should be addressed if we both actually listen and don't react like making America at least "neutrally welcoming" for our POC communities is somehow going to make everything "less than" for us. Many of us didn't know that a card like Stone-Throwing Devils bothered anyone because it didn't bother us. We don't even have to discuss that maybe we should have known. But regardless of their size, or maybe precisely because of that fact, right now is absolutely the time to raise all of these "small fish" issues.

    "I understand you'd like to not be killed in the streets for the same crimes I might even not be arrested for. I can't immediately fix that, though I'm willing to work with you and stand with you and donate money to the cause. In the meanwhile, I heard you say that you feel miserable in your public parks because of statues of the founder of the KKK and generals who fought for the right to keep you enslaved. Hey, I can agree to that. That's not a big ask."

    "I know you're understandably upset that police won't be charged with anything for shooting your friend while he was unarmed and running away. I can't immediately fix that, though I'm willing to work with you and stand with you and donate money to the cause. In the meanwhile, I heard that you want to play Magic: The Gathering and feel less openly unwelcomed? Yeah, we can not use these seven cards you find to be shitty. That's not a big ask."
    Last edited by Sesquipedalism; 06-14-2020 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Connective tissue.

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    Statement from Orion Black on departing WotC.

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    "decidedly male"

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