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Thread: Daʿish/ISIS/ISIL

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    dude you should watch frontline's "the rise of isis."

    i THINK i linked it here before, but i think they might have taken it offline for now because they are gonna re-air it soon as new, in light of recent events

    edit: yeah it's down for now.
    it was originally aired on 10-28-14 and it made my fucking head spin.

    I BET they will air it on PBS this weekend at some point.
    I will link to it here asap because i think anyone interested in the subject should watch it.
    As i said before in this thread, i don't think we've ever seen a group like this. They are NOT fucking around.

    This isn't like al queda. I recently heard that IS was sitting on an estimated 2 BILLION dollars,
    And they pay members $700 a month, which is probably REALLY good money in a third world country.
    The transcript is here. But, it's a year old and a lot has happened since then.

    The payment thing was linked in the interviews on the prior page with an escaped head of IS security (which comes from this), which is much more recent information and is a four-part series.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2015 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The transcript is here. But, it's a year old and a lot has happened since then.

    The payment thing was linked in the interviews on the prior page with an escaped head of IS security (they're from this), which is much more recent information.
    i know it's old but they are still gonna run it again, and have taken it down, ostensibly until they do so.
    And it does have a SHITLOAD of info. I think it's definitely worth watching if you haven't seen it, to learn how they came to be and whatnot


    So as far as the 2 billion...
    i wonder how much of that money comes from black market oil sales, how much came from the Saudis, and how much came from US when we thought we were arming "moderate rebels?"
    Last edited by elevenism; 11-20-2015 at 11:36 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    i know it's old but they are still gonna run it again, and have taken it down, ostensibly until they do so.
    And it does have a SHITLOAD of info. I think it's definitely worth watching if you haven't seen it, to learn how they came to be and whatnot
    I'm not sure that people in other countries can watch PBS, they may have to wait until it streams again online (or they can just read the transcript that I just posted).
    Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2015 at 11:44 AM.

  4. #64
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    This suicide bomber chick in France, I wonder if she was even a CHOSEN suicide bomber or if she grabbed a vest from the apartment and made herself one.

    This explains that ISIL is a cult.

    The terrorist atrocities in Paris have once again demonstrated the zeal and resolve of the jihadists fighting for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL). The scale of the violence shows the extent to which the group brainwashes its members: to the point where mass murder and self-annihilation become not only logical, but desirable.

    In this sense, ISIL is not only a terrorist organisation with ambitions to become a state, but also an exclusive, authoritarian, religious cult. It is its cultish belief system which allows the group to recruit and retain members from across the globe, excel on the battlefield and inspire franchises to form elsewhere. Consequently, if ISIL is to be tackled, it needs to be fought as a cult, too.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2015 at 11:49 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I'm not sure that people in other countries can watch PBS, they may have to wait until it streams again online (or they can just read the transcript that I just posted).
    Right on.
    They do post episodes on youtube though.
    I think they took it down because it's about to be their "newest" episode (based on the "next time on frontline" bit from this week's episode.)
    I'm assuming it will be on soon in the interest of being contemporary, hopefully with some new information.

    Edit: where do the blonde Caucasian kids in the new frontline come from?
    Are they ethnic russians? or children of immigrants?
    to clarify-in Afghanistan i mean.
    Last edited by elevenism; 11-20-2015 at 11:56 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    So as far as the 2 billion...
    i wonder how much of that money comes from black market oil sales, how much came from the Saudis, and how much came from US when we thought we were arming "moderate rebels?"
    That article that was linked breaks a lot of it down, it's ALL from them taking over the oil in Syria and Iraq and looting all of its resources, which was the smartest thing they did. It's why Russia is currently bombing ISIS' oil fields; Russia is trying to hit ISIS financially, because crippling them financially is probably a very good strategic move.

    SEE THIS

    Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2015 at 12:02 PM.

  7. #67
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    Yeah, and we were either stupid or worse:

    Here is where it gets interesting: Bloomberg cites Pentagon officials who acknowledge "that for more than a year they avoided striking tanker trucks to limit civilian casualties. None of these guys are ISIS. We don’t feel right vaporizing them, so we have been watching ISIS oil flowing around for a year,” says Knights. That changed on Nov. 16, when four U.S. attack planes and two gunships destroyed 116 oil trucks.

    So any qualms about vaporizing "innocent civilians" promptly disappeared when the Pentagon realized that its 1+ year long campaign had been an epic debacle, that a suddenly surging ISIS was stronger as ever, and most importantly, that its critical revenue lifelines had been largely untouched for years. Perhaps they weren't innocent civilians after all.

    It is still unknown if this recent crackdown on "dumping oil", or crude which dramatically lowers the price of oil in global markets - it certainly is an odd coincidence that the price of Brent and WTI began its tumble last fall, just when the Islamic State made its dramatic appearance on the world scene - will have an effect and cut off the primary source of funds to ISIS.

    But what we have been wondering for months and what we hope some enterprising journalist will soon answer, is just who are the commodity trading firms that have been so generously buying millions of smuggled oil barrels procured by the Islamic State at massive discounts to market, and then reselling them to other interested parties.

    In other words, who are the middlemen.

    What we do know is who they may be: they are the same names that were quite prominent in the market in September when Glencore had its first, and certainly not last, near death experience: the Glencores, the Vitols, the Trafiguras, the Nobels, the Mercurias of the world.

    To be sure, funding terrorist states is not something that some of the most prominent names in the list above have shied away from in the past.

    Which one (or ones) are the guilty parties - those who have openly breached terrorism funding laws - we don't know: it may be one, or more of the above, or someone totally different.

    At this point, however, three things are certain: whoever the commodity trading house may be that is paying ISIS-affiliated "innocent civilians" hundreds of millions of dollars for their products, they are perfect aware just who the source of this deeply discounted crude is. Crude so deeply discounted, in fact, it results in massive profits for the enterprising middleman who are engaging in openly criminal transactions.

    The second certainty: whoever said middleman is, it is very well known to US intelligence services such as the NSA and CIA, and thus to the Pentagon, and thus, the US government.

    The third certainty is that while the US, and Russia, and now France, are all very theatrically bombing something in the Syrian desert (nobody really knows what), the funding of ISIS continues unabated as someone keeps buying ISIS oil.

    We wonder how long until someone finally asks the all important question regarding the Islamic State: who is the commodity trader breaching every known law of funding terrorism when buying ISIS crude, almost certainly with the tacit approval by various "western alliance" governments, and why is it that these governments have allowed said middleman to continue funding ISIS for as long as it has?

  8. #68
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    @allegro i was just wondering about that, who was doing the buying of all that oil.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Edit: where do the blonde Caucasian kids in the new frontline come from?
    Are they ethnic russians? or children of immigrants?
    to clarify-in Afghanistan i mean.
    It's a CULT. Think Charles Manson holding a Q'aran. Or like Scientology with guns. A cult attracts a certain type of personality or situation, then they get brainwashed. They can come from anywhere; they are being recruited worldwide. See this PDF.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2015 at 11:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    where do the blonde Caucasian kids in the new frontline come from?
    Are they ethnic russians? or children of immigrants?
    to clarify-in Afghanistan i mean.
    They are mostly from Chechnya or Dagestan, or Kabardino Balkaria , white Muslim republics in Southern Russia.....8000 people have left Russia to join Isis.
    Way way more than other European country..the next biggest is France with 1.750 leaving.....Russia is now worried about them returning.
    the amount of massive attacks that country has had though.. i spent a couple of my childhood years in Russia ..its always had an insane threat...The attacks were devastating, Planes being bombed out of the sky, Beslan school crisis ( in my view the worst attack of the 00's after 9/11) , Theatre seiges, Subway bombings, train bombings, people blowing themselves up at rock festivals, or public areas....a LOT of these attacks were done by women....i think the country has come to expect it.

    If anyone knows how to cope with terrorism...its that country.
    This has all contributed to Vladimir Putin being the type of man he is...he goes almost medievil on terrorists asses..sometimes the terrorists families get their homes burnt down.....
    im certain Russia will suffer more blowback due to its attacks on Isis....however Russia is vital in defeating Isis.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    They are mostly from Chechnya or Dagestan, or Kabardino Balkaria , white Muslim republics in Southern Russia.....8000 people have left Russia to join Isis.
    Way way more than other European country..the next biggest is France with 1.750 leaving.....Russia is now worried about them returning.
    the amount of massive attacks that country has had though.. i spent a couple of my childhood years in Russia ..its always had an insane threat...The attacks were devastating, Planes being bombed out of the sky, Beslan school crisis ( in my view the worst attack of the 00's after 9/11) , Theatre seiges, Subway bombings, train bombings, people blowing themselves up at rock festivals, or public areas....a LOT of these attacks were done by women....i think the country has come to expect it.

    If anyone knows how to cope with terrorism...its that country.
    This has all contributed to Vladimir Putin being the type of man he is...he goes almost medievil on terrorists asses..sometimes the terrorists families get their homes burnt down.....
    im certain Russia will suffer more blowback due to its attacks on Isis....however Russia is vital in defeating Isis.
    the kids i was to whom i was referring were ages 4-10.
    So do parents bring their kids with them when the join Isis?

  13. #73
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    Depends on how and where they were enrolled.
    Think christian church methods gone military outfit, local pillars of the community having strong and borderline speeches, weeding out those who seem too meek and timid, and sharing their most extremist views with those who are ready to hear them. A little nudge here, a gentle push there, the promise of a glorious, righteous and meaningful destiny, fighting the corrupt and the decadent for a brighter world...
    When you've spent your whole life being persecuted, subject to daily racism, when your kind is attacked everywhere and your future seems miserable, it's not that hard. The younger you are, the easier it gets.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    the kids i was to whom i was referring were ages 4-10.
    So do parents bring their kids with them when the join Isis?
    According to THIS, the propaganda videos feature blonde children from Bosnia.

    See also this.

    See also this.

    As the link I posted earlier indicated, this is a religious cult and people bring their kids; really not much different than, say, Jim Jones and the People's Temple, but with guns.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2015 at 11:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    According to THIS, the propaganda videos feature blonde children from Bosnia.

    See also this.

    See also this.

    As the link I posted earlier indicated, this is a religious cult and people bring their kids; really not much different than, say, Jim Jones and the People's Temple, but with guns.
    Jesus that's insane.
    I guess i'm having a hard time learning to see it in those terms.

    So what we have is a psuedo religious death cult of unprecedented size and scope, committed to damn near indiscriminate murder, sitting on a couple billion dollars and encompassing the globe, garnering VERY disturbing amounts of sympathy for their cause.

    it's worse than i thought.
    Last edited by elevenism; 11-21-2015 at 07:01 AM.

  16. #76
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    Sorry for double posts!

    Here is the new film that shows the "pre-school of terror" i was talking about.
    it seems like any other instruction of young children, from a gifted, empathetic teacher who has a knack for connecting with children, speaking softly and whispering the answers to the kids when the struggle.
    But the "curriculum" is UTTERLY INSANE.

    "What do we call this?," the teacher says? "Machine gun!" the kids answer back.
    "Who do we kill with it?" "Infidels! That's right kids, good job!"
    It's not like a junior terror training camp. I swear to god it;s more like an actual pre-school.
    Last edited by elevenism; 11-21-2015 at 07:02 AM.

  17. #77
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    That's not pre-school, those are older kids. I don't think that is all that disturbing, it's their reality. Kids in this country have guns at that age, too. We think it's stupid, but it's reality.

    That's what they believe, like Hitler Youth or whatever. Or, again, like Scientology with guns. (Scientology has Sea Org)

    SEE THIS
    Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2015 at 11:00 AM.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    That's not pre-school, those are older kids. I don't think that is all that disturbing, it's their reality. Kids in this country have guns at that age, too. We think it's stupid, but it's reality.

    That's what they believe, like Hitler Youth or whatever. Or, again, like Scientology with guns. (Scientology has Sea Org)

    SEE THIS
    Shiiiiiiiiit @allegro , it still disturbs ME
    but yeah you have a point.
    SOME of those kids can't be any older than 5 or 6 though

    here's another frontline with kids and ak47's.
    It's about a rubber plantation in Liberia

    Frontline (especially the Propublica ones) is most def our favorite show (me and sheap.)
    sorry for drift.

  19. #79
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    Here's Hitler Youth at rifle practice:


    See also THIS. It's easy for us to sit in our nice cushy environments and not know anything about world reality.



    Here, check this out.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2015 at 11:32 AM.

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    The only difference between ISIS and a typical gang is the extreme religious ideology that they use. There is very little difference in how they work, how people join, and all the other mechanisms. Religious ideology is a strong thing for humans. Imagine if you added that to one of the street gangs in the US. Things would quickly get out of hand.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Here's Hitler Youth at rifle practice:


    See also THIS. It's easy for us to sit in our nice cushy environments and not know anything about world reality.



    Here, check this out.
    Yup! If something is part of your everyday life, it's going to be part of your kids. There are plenty of ways people raise their kids that will shock the typical US citizen. Some of the worst tends to happen in poverty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The only difference between ISIS and a typical gang is the extreme religious ideology that they use. There is very little difference in how they work, how people join, and all the other mechanisms. Religious ideology is a strong thing for humans. Imagine if you added that to one of the street gangs in the US. Things would quickly get out of hand.
    The other obvious difference is the fact that they seem to have a ridiculous amounts of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    The other obvious difference is the fact that they seem to have a ridiculous amounts of money.
    Gangs have lots of money from selling drugs, guns, etc. But not as much money as ISIS (oil).

    And I thought Scientology was the cult with all the money, HA!
    Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2015 at 10:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    jesus h christ.

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    ok here's this frontline episode.
    they took it down and then finally re-aired it.
    and all they added was a little intro.

    but anyone interested in ISIS and really knowing what's going on should check it out.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/rise-of-isis/

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