Likes: Anyone else got their popcorn ready for the referendum on the 18th? This is pretty interesting stuff.
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BACKROLLS?!
Anyone else got their popcorn ready for the referendum on the 18th? This is pretty interesting stuff.
Melty Member
Lots of the media here seem to be anti-yes as well as much of the stuff I read from England. In Canada we have our own separatist situation here with Quebec. I fall into the camp of let the people decide. It will be interesting indeed. If Scotland separates, how will that effect you in Ireland, (being part of the UK and all)?
BACKROLLS?!
Ireland isn't part of the UK, just so you know, so we won't really be affected. There is a chance that an independent Scotland could have very low taxes for multinationals in order to attract investment and so that could screw with our reputation for being the best little country for low taxes. Plus, Northern Ireland could become polarised again.
Melty Member
Wow, I'm stupid. Thanks for the clarification.
I guess it won't be as bad as lots of the UK politicians are trying to say will be?
BACKROLLS?!
This is a problem I've noticed - the "yes" side is very vague on a lot of things. It almost seems it consists of "it's okay, just vote for independence and then we'll sort it out in negotiations".Originally Posted by icecream
Active Member
I just don't think more nationalism is the answer to anything: smaller and smaller nations, why?
To me it reinforces these ideas of people=nationality=race, none of that is good.
The EU I welcome, even though it has been going through tough times: more nation states I just can't see the upside.
I've always felt the nation state as an imprisoning, inadequate way of living.
Active Member
If course Canada is anti-yes. It would be a disaster for Canada to see Scotland vote for independence. Can you imagine if they do vote yes and become a successful country on their own.
This would give a significant boost the movement in Quebec.
FWIW, I hate the term "separation". There's this negative connotation about the word I do not like.
Melty Member
That's a good point. What do you use instead?
Active Member
I've always used the term "independence".
A new poll conducted by the "no" camp had them in the lead by 7 point 47 to 40.
It's going to be very interesting to see how it unfold.
Fun fact: Out of 150 referendums held since 1914, only three resulted in the "no" camp winning. Two of those are from Quebec.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
FOR FREEDOM
As an Englishman, I personally support Scottish independence, but I also fear it as that means we lose our liberal lean in the UK
Captain Rustleboots
Hysterically relevant.
Vertiginous Member
Rather hilarious that the Falklands are apparently more British than Scotland.
Throbbing Member
First: the BBC can fuck right off. How dare they.
Second: I've had maybe, five or six people in the US take it upon themselves to tell me exactly how I should vote, and why. One guy was surprisingly educated on the subject. Nevertheless, they can fuck off too.
Actually everyone just fuck off.
Regardless of the outcome, the Better Together campaign has been a disaster. The following is a real advert, patronizing and sexist to the extent it likely had the opposite effect on the polls than intended. There has been palpable anger about this, evidenced by the countless memes and spoofs it's sprouted:
Stubby Member
There's been far too much scaremongering from the no camp especially about banks and supermarkets moving there head offices to England or prices being raised which I don't believe for a minute will happen just because of independence, yes oil won't last forever but nobody can say for definite how long it will last and how much we could utilise the gains from it before it does happen, I for one think we can survive without Westminster rule, it may and probably will take a while for the good to come from it but I'm willing to take that chance
Active Member
Your location is NYC - do you have a postal vote or something?
As an Englishwoman living in Wales I hope they vote no otherwise Plaid fucking Cymru will have a field day here
Active Member
I've had the chance to live through the 1995 Quebec referendum and I'm seeing a carbon copy of the tactics used by the "no" camp.
Campaign of fear, deceit, and lies. Same tactics Canada used in 1995.
At the end of the day, it worked because the ones that were on the fence, ultimately leaned towards the safer option.
One thing Scotland is doing better than Quebec is informing their voters.
Active Member
If by informing you mean they are saying 'oh don't worry about the fact that new countries entering the EU are supposed to join the euro when we don't want to, I'm sure we'll figure it out', then yes they are being informed that there are tons of unanswered questions suggesting Salmond hasn't done his homework
Active Member
Except... the Royal Bank of Scotland have said they would definitely move to London, and the biggest employer in Scotland (Clyde base) would relocate to Plymouth.
You can survive without Westminster but this is a muppet campaign, Northern Ireland has substantial autonomy and yet remains in the Union (liblbcon just don't exist there) - and I say this as an Irish Nationalist
Throbbing Member
I'm an expat of two years. Votes have been restricted from non-residents due to "complexity". I'm leaning towards Yes in general.
Stubby Member
They also said that they had no intention of moving operations or jobs to London so who knows, also Scotland is already pretty much independent from the rest as it is, we can't even use Scottish bank notes in England yet told that we can't share the pound even though ours is useless down south
Active Member
No intention of moving jobs... so is the headquarters going to be run by robots, or will they be moving a core of highly paid staff to London... seems odd!
I really am on the fence, I believe regionalism and greater autonomy from London is the way forward for all of the UK, but there has to be a plan
People talk of scaremongering but pointing out bad things that definitely will happen is not scaremongering anymore than a warning on a cigarette packet is
Active Member
They still doing a better job than. I mean, the question itself in 1995 was vague as shit.
I'll admit, I went a bit on an assumption there as I was under impression that the "yes" camp was doing a decent job.
My bad.
BACKROLLS?!
Yeah, but look at their ruling parties - Sinn Fein are shifty as fuck and the DUP are nutcases that make the Westboro Baptists look liberal.
Active Member
aye but it's not the quality I'm judging it on, it's the degree of autonomy, NI is a different political universe to Britain. I thought it was pretty true what McGuiness said in his statement regarding Paisley's death - for all their differences they agreed that regional groups and individuals could sort it out better than the London government could
Throbbing Member
This is funny- basically all his recent rhetoric boils down to.
Active Member
Latest poll has the "yes" at 49%
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...oll-ipsos-mori
God is an American
What a nail-biter. Truly every vote counts today. Good luck Scotland!
Active Member
There's a great piece on the editorial page in today's NYT about the referendum, written by a pro-yes Scotsman. I can certainly see the rationale for independence.
Throbbing Member
I'm an Englishman and I fully approve of Scotland getting their independence. There is a lot of uncertaincy about becoming their own country but I see no reason on a long term basis why they can't make it work. Westminster has done nothing but shit on them for a long time (and the rest of the UK) why you wouldn't want to break away from all the corruption, inequality and make a go at it yourselves is beyond me. It really is putting your own destiny in your own hands run by people who care for Scotland. Sure it won't be perfect and they'll be corruption etc still, there always will be but do you want to live with your parents all your life? Might be better financially but screw that, get your own place, throw a party, eat beans on toast for a few years but the long term benifits will be worth it IF you make the right choices in building that country.
I say don't cling on to the sinking ship, take a chance and swim for shore.
Stubby Member
My votes in, think I'll be setting my alarm for about 3 in the morning to see if the results are in yet
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