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Faceplams: Ha, yeah.Originally Posted by adamsrib
Hey, Son. I think that part of what you're missing, is that we aren't sure he was actually reaching for a gun.
That's just the first part.
I was nobody. Nothing.
Ha, yeah.
Hey, Son. I think that part of what you're missing, is that we aren't sure he was actually reaching for a gun.
That's just the first part.
Active Member
yeah, exactly like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[4][5][6] When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would often be "What about ..." followed by an event in the Western world.[7][8][9] According to Russian writer and political activist Garry Kasparov, it is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[10] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well.
tempus est umbra in mente
Oh...while that is still very interesting, I thought you were implying a direct proven correlation to this instance of whataboutism to a Russian propaganda source.
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I don't think the news today cares about proving anything other than proving they'll do anything for ratings instead of reporting the truth.
Active Member
Check out "This is Not Propaganda" by Peter Pomerantsev. Well researched and written book that weaves a narrative of the lives of folks from the author's family and their emigration from the Soviet Union and current examples of disinformation campaigns from around the world.
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tempus est umbra in mente
Goddamn it... and I say this as a white guy who had a cop pull his gun on me during a traffic stop (and he smiled while doing it), fuck yourself there. Piss in the face of everyone who says stuff like "well just do what the cops say and you won't have problems." If I wasn't white I'd probably have a story about that time I got shot, or maybe I'd be dead.
Bite me
He was GETTING INTO his car, not reaching into his car. The cops could have simply backed up and let him enter his car - the back seat of which contained all of his three very young children - and blocked his exit with police vehicles.
But it was easier to shoot him in the back, in the car, risking putting a ricocheted bullet into one of those little kids.
These cops escalate vs. de-escalate.
“Protect and serve” should not mean citizens must “fear and obey your earthly masters."
This is not a police state. Police should not automatically assume that all people possess guns and that all people are a danger to police.
That is what is assumed IN COMBAT, IN A WAR; not in day-to-day life among citizens.
When you sign up to be a police officer, you do so willingly. You know the dangers. You don't do so willing to be judge, jury and executioner. You don't do so willing to remove all rights from all American citizens.
Look, this doesn't mean that some guy shooting AT cops gets a pass. No, that's an obvious situation that's going to result in the cops shooting back. Or if a perpetrator whips out a gun, and the cops tell him to put the gun down and he won't, etc. - at some point, that's not going to end well.
But cops need DE-ESCALATION training. Instead, for DECADES, they have had MILITARIZED training, more like "Tour of Duty" style simulators with perps diving out at them and they SHOOT at them, vs. trying other methods. They learn instant-shooting training, as an instant reaction.
1,004 people were shot and killed by police in 2019 in the United States.
Last edited by allegro; 08-25-2020 at 05:14 PM.
Bored
How does one act like they are reaching for a gun? I'm really curious because I do all the shopping for my mother and I'm reaching in the car 20 times a day. How does the person in the car next to me know if I'm reaching for a gun or not?
Maybe the fact that I'm a white woman has something to do with it? White woman reaching in a car: she's looking for her purse; black man reaching in a car: he's looking for a gun?
Bite me
Bite me
There's this systemic underlying problem, and none of this will ever get better unless the underlying problem is fixed.
This Jacob Blake has a prior arrest record in Racine, a situation with police and a K9 unit, where he apparently didn't "respect" the K9 police in Racine. So it's possible that this tainted the Kenosha cops' view of him going INTO the whole situation.
And white people online are, like, "well, why don't 'these people' just LISTEN to police and RESPECT them?"
But that's easy for white people to say when they aren't privy to shit, like using police dogs on people and "pulling up" on those police dogs, NOT in an attempt to get the dogs to RELEASE their jaws, but actually getting the dogs to bite HARDER. I know someone who trains those dogs, and those dogs are trained with verbal commands to let go, etc. Those cops pulling up on the dogs are using the dogs' instincts, vs. commands, to bite harder, to inflict bodily injury.
It's what slave owners did to slaves, using dogs to inflict torture and inflict fear and intimidation. Nothing more.
And when you wonder why black people don't "submit" or "trust" police, this is why.
There is a need for community policing, for the old "beat cops" who know the neighborhood and neighbors, and the neighbors know THEM; this better fosters trust between those neighbors and the beat cops. There's a need for police to undergo diversity training, for them to understand the black community's history of mistrust, mistreatment, the history of slavery that passed down through them and didn't go away through a few generations like a fart in the wind; for cops to understand the brown community, their cultures and their diversity, etc., and for the police to get training regarding people with mental issues or special needs, and understand that these individuals CAN'T always understand or comply with demands or requests.
So that a simple "domestic" call about two women fighting doesn't turn into a man being shot in front of his kids, forever psychologically damaging those children (let alone risking those kids' lives), paralyzing a man for life, and creating a riot situation in a town that's already trying to rebuild from financial disaster.
It is probably time to institute requirements that police officers have at a minimum a Bachelor's Degree in various required fields.
Last edited by allegro; 08-25-2020 at 10:32 PM.
BADGERS
Someone's getting some piss in their face
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Except then you have cops who are too smart.
Now that we know how much "training" they get this seems like the cops inflated things in trial. *mock horror*“Those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training,” ABC News reported back then. While at least acknowledging the basic fact that such a policy might be “unwise,” the court deemed it had a “rational basis” because it was put in place to lower cop turnover.
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Treat Black people with respect and maybe they won't fear for their lives. If they don't fear for their lives maybe they won't have to do the mental calculus "Am I more likely to die if I cooperate or if I try to get away?" <<< If we're talking about literal things...this is an actual thought racing through the minds of Black men and women when they encounter cops. That is what you're defending.
tempus est umbra in mente
And it’s a thing I don’t think people really can get until someone with authority points a lethal weapon at you. It is absolutely fucking terrifying, and I still “didn’t think he’d really do it.”
Active Member
yes they do. they also shoot people who have a toy in their hand. and a wallet. and nothing! it's amazing the number of different ways they find to shoot someone.
tempus est umbra in mente
“If a person flees they may be tazed or tackled” or... shot seven times in the back
Active Member
So, if I understand correctly, what you're saying is that everyone who reaches into their car near the police should expect to be shot in the back seven times?
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I'm not a cop, and I'm not American, I'm Canadian, so I'll acknowledge that there are probably some differences in the laws in my example here, but hear me out about this.
If I'm at home, and someone breaks into my house, then legally I can use reasonable force to defend myself. The key word there though is reasonable. If I grabbed a baseball bat and took a swing at the person, I'm probably OK, but if I had already knocked them out, and then kept swinging, I'm probably going to jail. If I had a licensed gun, I'd probably be OK to point it at the intruder and tell them to leave, but if they turned to leave and then I shot them in the back seven times, I'd probably be going to jail.
I don't have a problem with cops using reasonable force. I do have a problem with them shooting someone in the back seven times in front of their children when that person was clearly posing no threat. I don't really know exactly why the police wanted him to stay at the scene, but if they were going to arrest him, they have handcuffs, tasers, or they could have boxed his vehicle in, there are ways to do that which don't require shooting him in the back seven times.
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I'm not your man and spare me your condescension. Cops DO shoot cooperating Black people. Charles Kinsey, look him up. Tamir Rice didn't have a chance to "cooperate" because the cop barely bothered to get out of his car before opening fire. Meanwhile white dudes mass murder people and are routinely arrested without incident.
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Odd because Walter Scott and Isiah Murrietta-Golding were both "fleeing" and they weren't tazed or tackled...they were shot in the back and murdered.
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I watched the video of the incident, I didn't see any wrestling or attacking the officers. I saw him walking slowly to the drivers side of his vehicle, the cop grabbing the back of his shirt, and him trying to get into his vehicle.
The police are trained in take-downs. Without knowing the details of the situation, even that might be overkill, but it's at least reasonable. Shooting him in the back seven times is not.
Active Member
Someone should have let Breonna Taylor know that, had she cooperated with police, they wouldn't have illegally entered her home and shot her while she was asleep.
tempus est umbra in mente
dude... he was running away... he did nothing to assault the officer... his hands were empty...
This isn't even a "well let me play devil's advocate" kind of thing; if you don't think this is clearly fucked up you are just wrong.
Active Member
It's hard to tell what's going on in that video at part you're referring to. It looks like he's on the ground with an officer on top of him.
Then the video gets better when you see him calming walking away around his car and then being chased by police officers.
Once he's on his feet and walking away, he's no longer fighting or wrestling with anyone. And that's when they decided to shoot him in the back 7 times. You're crazy dude. There's no reason to have opened fire on him here.
Stubby Member
Yeah, 7 times is insane.
I see some cunt killed 2 people yesterday.
America is fucking weird.
Active Member
He also tried to flee the state because he knew he was wrong.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9690326.html17-year-old arrested for murder and fleeing state after Kenosha shootings that left two dead
Kyle Rittenhouse of Antioch, Illinois, faces charges of first-degree intentional homicide
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This 17 year old (and from the looks of these photos still prepubescent) LARPing ass mutherfucker went to protect businesses in a state he doesn't live in. And the cops let him do it. They encouraged him to do it. This is what you get. And this is also why Black people are fed up and pissed off. Had that been a Black man protecting protestors with an AR15 he'd been, at best, illegally detained for openly carrying or, at worst, shot on sight by the cops / MAGA militia. This shit makes me so irate / ashamed. This country is so irreparably broken.
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