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Thread: Ferguson and general police misconduct

  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    What were we saying?

    oh man. 73yo half-cop accidentally shoots perp who had just tried to make an illegal gun sale to a cop. Where are you going to land on this Deepvoid? :P
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 04-13-2015 at 05:18 PM.

  2. #1502
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    I know right? It's a bit of a clusterfuck.

    At the end of the day, it's the end result that matters.
    From what I gathered, the guy was going for his taser but mistakenly went for his going for his gun?
    Not sure if I get this right.
    In any case, I'm starting to believe that, maybe, cops aren't properly trained? One of the greatest quality a cop must have is to be able to make a quick decision based on a series of events happening in real-time. Not everyone has the ability to do that. Is the threshold for recruitment too low?

    The above shooting was clearly not racially motivated. It's just some douche millionaire who actually paid to be "cop for a day".
    Last edited by Deepvoid; 04-14-2015 at 08:48 AM.

  3. #1503
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    So many comments are unfortunately hilarious..



    "Leeeerrrrooyyyyy Jeeeeenkiiiinnsssssss"
    "hold my donut, I got this."

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    I know right? It's a bit of a clusterfuck.

    At the end of the day, it's the end result that matters.
    From what I gathered, the guy was going for his taser but mistakenly went for his going for his gun?
    Not sure if I get this right.
    In any case, I'm starting to believe that, maybe, cops aren't properly trained? One of the greatest quality a cop must have is to be able to make a quick decision based on a series of events happening in real-time. Not everyone has the ability to do that. Is the threshold for recruitment too low?

    The above shooting was clearly not racially motivated. It's just some douche millionaire who actually paid to be "cop for a day".
    He is an OLD MAN who should NOT have a gun. I guess he PAID them to let him be a reservist. A taser and a gun aren't even HELD the same way, they don't feel the same way.

  5. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    He is an OLD MAN who should NOT have a gun. I guess he PAID them to let him be a reservist. A taser and a gun aren't even HELD the same way, they don't feel the same way.
    His training report was allegedly forged so he could carry a gun.
    Last edited by Deepvoid; 04-16-2015 at 05:12 PM. Reason: typo

  6. #1506
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    Ugh, God, what the fuck.

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    He is an OLD MAN who should NOT have a gun. I guess he PAID them to let him be a reservist. A taser and a gun aren't even HELD the same way, they don't feel the same way.
    They have like 100 volunteer cops out there. It's not an unusual situation. As for the taser vs gun, the mixup happens. Look up Oscar Grant. I pass through the BART station he was killed at every day. It's a good reminder of this. When you are pulling out a weapon, it's reflex. You could swap their gun out with a banana and some cops wouldn't notice until they pull the nonexistent trigger, in rapid deployment situations. Throw in some adrenaline and your dexterity is nonexistent. That's why it's common to have the taser holstered on the opposite side that your gun is.


    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_...of_Oscar_Grant
    There are multiple videos of the incident. The cop told other cops to back off so he could taser Grant. Then Grant got a bullet in the back and the cop looked visibly surprised. I'll dig one of the videos up when I'm not on my phone.

  8. #1508
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    Well shit. I actually submitted that post while stopped at the Fruitvale station. That was fucking... I don't know.

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    That's why it's common to have the taser holstered on the opposite side that your gun is.
    BINGO.

    The old man still shouldn't have had a gun, he should have been retired. I'm not ageist, it's just that once you are that age your judgment in those situations and your reaction ability is greatly impaired. It's why your CAR INSURANCE is way higher.

  10. #1510
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    christ
    This is what happens when you get a good dispatcher (warning the cop in advance) and a cop who was trained in the marines.

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    christ
    This is what happens when you get a good dispatcher (warning the cop in advance) and a cop who was trained in the marines.

    Now THAT is GOOD POLICE WORK. BRAVO to that police officer, awesome work, dude!!

    edit: most of the YouTube comments are saying the cop would have shot the suspect if the suspect was a black dude.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-20-2015 at 03:30 PM.

  12. #1512
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    Ugh that situation sucked, it was very good that the cop didn't knee jerk shoot the guy because it became very clear the dude didn't have a weapon and it was also very clear the cop wasn't going to shoot him. That was a very poor attempt at suicide by cop and it's really sad.

  13. #1513
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    Here's the text that comes with the video:

    Published on Apr 18, 2015'

    'I don't wanna shoot you man'

    Ohio cop refuses to open fire on murder suspect begging to be shot:

    'I Wanted to Be Absolutely Sure', New Richmond Police Officer Jesse Kidder Refuses to shoot man asking to be shot (full video). This is How Good Cops Act: Heroic Officer Refuses to Shoot Man Despite Dangerous Confrontation.

    Ohio Cop Refuses to Resort to Deadly Force

    (NBC News) A rookie Ohio cop is being praised for "great restraint and maturity" after he held off using deadly force against a double murder suspect who charged at him, his police chief said.

    In a confrontation Thursday with a man accused of killing his fiancee and his best friend, New Richmond Police Officer Jesse Kidder is heard on his body-camera video yelling, "No man, I'm not going to do it!" and ordering the suspect to get down on the ground.

    The suspect rushes toward him shouting, "Shoot me, shoot me!"
    "Back up!" screams Kidder, holding his gun out. The man finally crumples to the ground just feet away from the officer in the video taken in the Cincinnati suburb of Elsmere, Kentucky.

    Investigators say Michael Wilcox killed his fiancee in their Brown County, Ohio, home, then killed his best friend in Elsmere, reported NBC affiliate WLWT in Cincinnati, which first obtained the body-camera video. A Brown County investigator spotted Wilcox Thursday night at about 8 p.m. and attempted to stop him, but Wilcox claimed he had a gun and drove away, officials said.

    He was then followed by New Richmond police on a car chase through multiple counties on the Ohio-Kentucky border before Kidder caught Wilcox and arrested him.

    The nonviolent confrontation caught on video has been highlighted as a positive example of police officer encounters nationwide. Their actions have been blemished by shootings of unarmed men, including a deadly officer shooting earlier this month in South Carolina.

    Officers' use of force has been the subject of protests since last August, when white police officer Darren Wilson shot and killed black teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. Wilson was not wearing a body camera, which raised questions about what exactly led him to shoot and whether all police officers should be outfitted with the tiny video recorders.
    In the Kentucky case, the suspect was believed to be armed and is heard threatening the officer on the video.

    "For him to make the judgment call that he did shows great restraint and maturity," New Richmond Police Chief Randy Harvey told WLWT about Kidder, who's been on the force for a year. "This video footage, it eliminated all doubt that this officer would have been justified if in fact it came to a shooting."

    Kidder, who did two tours of duty in Iraq as a Marine and is a Purple Heart recipient, told WLWT that a relative had given him a body camera to use at work after the Ferguson shooting.

    During the confrontation Thursday, 911 dispatchers told Kidder that Wilcox could have a gun under his seat and may be threatening suicide-by-cop, according to WLWT. Kidder said since he knew backup was coming shortly, he held off shooting Wilcox.

    "I was trying to open a dialogue with him. 'I don't want to shoot you, get on the ground,' but he wasn't having it. He kept repeating, 'Shoot me.' At one point, he said 'Shoot me or I'll shoot you,'" Kidder told WLWT.
    The situation escalated: Wilcox put his hand in his pocket and again charged at Kidder — who is seen on the video tripping and falling backwards.

    "He got towards my face right as I lost balance," Kidder told WLWT. "I'm thinking at this point that if he goes into attack me, that I'll have to use deadly force to defend myself."

    But he waited.

    "Law enforcement officers all across the nation have to deal with split-second decisions that mean life or death. I wanted to be absolutely sure before I used deadly force," he said.

    Backup arrived just in time, and Wilcox surrendered.

    Harvey said he hopes to obtain funding to get body cameras for the rest of the police force.

    Dwayne Wenninger, sheriff in Brown County, said in a statement that Wilcox confessed to and has been charged with murder for the death of his fiancee, Courtney Fowler, and is also under suspicion for the friend's death. Fowler died of gunshot wounds, the statement said.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-21-2015 at 08:54 AM.

  14. #1514
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    Chicago police officer involved in the fatal shooting of 22-year-old Rekia Boyd acquitted by county judge.

    But Porter’s ruling was particularly confounding because of bizarre reasoning that some legal experts are calling “incredible.” In an opinion that lamented Servin was never charged with the more severe crimes of first- and second-degree murder, Porter suggested he was acquitting Servin and sending him home without any punishment because the involuntary manslaughter charge against him was actually not severe enough.

    Porter, the Cook County judge presiding over the case, agreed that Servin was acting intentionally when he fired his gun. In fact, he said in his ruling, Illinois courts have long held that when a defendant “intends to fire a gun, points it in the general direction of his or her intended victim, and shoots, such conduct is not merely reckless,” but “intentional” and “the crime, if any there be, is first degree murder.”

    In a bizarre turn of reasoning, Porter suggests that since the first-degree murder charge is not on the table, and the crimes with which he was charged — involuntary manslaughter and reckless discharge of a gun — require that Servin was reckless, Servin cannot be convicted of any crime at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    Chicago police officer involved in the fatal shooting of 22-year-old Rekia Boyd acquitted by county judge.

    But Porter’s ruling was particularly confounding because of bizarre reasoning that some legal experts are calling “incredible.” In an opinion that lamented Servin was never charged with the more severe crimes of first- and second-degree murder, Porter suggested he was acquitting Servin and sending him home without any punishment because the involuntary manslaughter charge against him was actually not severe enough.

    Porter, the Cook County judge presiding over the case, agreed that Servin was acting intentionally when he fired his gun. In fact, he said in his ruling, Illinois courts have long held that when a defendant “intends to fire a gun, points it in the general direction of his or her intended victim, and shoots, such conduct is not merely reckless,” but “intentional” and “the crime, if any there be, is first degree murder.”

    In a bizarre turn of reasoning, Porter suggests that since the first-degree murder charge is not on the table, and the crimes with which he was charged — involuntary manslaughter and reckless discharge of a gun — require that Servin was reckless, Servin cannot be convicted of any crime at all.
    Not sure how double jeopardy works in this case: can't they just retry with a charge of first-degree murder? The prosecution would have transcripts of the judge's own words...

    I realize re-trials are a slippery slope after this point and usually only make for good TV drama.

  16. #1516
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    You cannot charge someone twice for the same offense.

    Etienne [law professor] points out several adverse consequences that would result if Porter’s understanding of the law prevailed. A defendant charged with involuntary manslaughter could get on the stand and make the very argument Porter now makes: I am not guilty of a crime of recklessness because I did this on purpose. “And by the way my trial has started so double jeopardy. You can’t go back and charge me with an intentional killing.”

    @allegro have you had the chance to review the judgment? Thought this case would interest you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    @allegro have you had the chance to review the judgment? Thought this case would interest you.
    Yes, that Judge is a typical Judge protecting shitty cops. He could have spun it that the cop shot at the wrong person, recklessly. But, mostly, Anita Alvarez is an asshole. She always files stupid charges, often against the wrong people. She should lose her job.

    Read this.

    The woman is an assault to civil liberties. Here, read this.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-22-2015 at 04:42 PM.

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    Not to mention that Cook County is practically the false confession capital of the world

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    Quote Originally Posted by binaryhermit View Post
    Not to mention that Cook County is practically the false confession capital of the world
    Well, it WAS until they got rid of John Burge.

  20. #1520
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Yes, that Judge is a typical Judge protecting shitty cops. He could have spun it that the cop shot at the wrong person, recklessly. But, mostly, Anita Alvarez is an asshole. She always files stupid charges, often against the wrong people. She should lose her job.

    Read this.

    The woman is an assault to civil liberties. Here, read this.
    Listening to a great WBEZ piece on this right now, and retired JUDGE and two former criminal defense attorneys say that Alvarez UNDERCHARGED in this case, and that State's attorney always OVERCHARGE.

    Look at this, one expert on the WBEZ panel cited the Adorno case. Wtf.

    On January 23rd, 2010 Miguel Adorno fired his gun under his arm, much like Dante Servin claimed to, at a party in Chicago. A bullet from Adorno hit Shannon Fanning in the arm. Nobody died, but Miguel Adorno was charged and convicted with attempted murder and given a mandatory 15 year sentence in prison.

    On June 14th, 2013, Miguel Adorno appealed this decision stating that he was overcharged and over sentenced for something was purely reckless. When you see what the state argued, it'll blow your mind.

    According to defendant's testimony, the people chasing him were right on his heels, therefore defendant knew he was firing the weapon in their direction when he reached into the trunk and fired the gun under his arm without looking.

    Illinois courts have clearly and consistently held that when a defendant points a firearm in the direction of an intended victim and fires the weapon, he has not acted recklessly.

    People v. Sipp, 378 Ill. App. 3d 157, 166 (2007). Because defendant knowingly fired his gun in the direction of the crowd, a reckless conduct instruction was not appropriate. We do not find the court abused its discretion in refusing to instruct the jury on reckless conduct....

    The evidence elicited in this case shows that defendant knew the victim and others were present in the general vicinity of the apartment building, and defendant fired his weapon multiple times in their direction....

    Furthermore, specific intent to take a human life is a material element of the offense of attempted murder, but the very fact of firing a gun at a person supports the conclusion that the person doing so acted with the intent to kill.
    In other words, the state argued that it would be wrong to charge Miguel Adorno with anything less than a murder charge since he knowingly fired his gun into a crowd. His appeal was denied and he is in prison to this very day serving 15 years for shooting someone in the arm.

    Yet, States Attorney Anita Alvarez, who willfully charged Miguel Adorno with attempted murder and cited case after case in his appeal, for why shooting his gun into a crowd required a felony murder charge, then contradicted her very own legal precedent by charging Officer Dante Servin with recklessness in a case in which he not only shot someone in their arm, but also shot Rekia Boyd in the head and killed her.

    Are you following me here?

    Anita Alvarez not only knew it was wrong to charge Officer Servin with the lesser crime of recklessness, she has a documented history of making the case that shooting into a crowd requires one to be charged with murder.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-27-2015 at 02:29 PM.

  21. #1521
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    Lets all take a moment to reflect on everything that's wrong with the current protest movement.
    Last edited by tony.parente; 06-11-2015 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Thats a record for a facepalm, pushing 2 months!

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    Let's continue to ignore that that behavior has absolutely nothing to do with protesting.

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    Looters aren't protesters.

    Those are http://blackwestchester.com/2015/04/...protest-bmore/
    Obviously, covering 10,000 peaceful protesters is boring news. Having a handful of protesters setting cars on fire is not only good TV but good for the ratings, which equals more money for the network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Lets all take a moment to reflect on everything that's wrong with the current protest movement.
    You're being pretty fucking unfair here. Every protest has its batch of looters and losers looking for trouble, every protest has its parasites.
    This has nothing to do with the current movement, and everything to do with people exploiting chaos and confusion to their own shitty agenda, taking advantage of the fact that the cops are busy elsewhere.
    Pointing out this behavior to diminish the validity of the movement is nothing but a cynical dick move (not saying that's what you're doing, I'm talking about the medias here).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    You're being pretty fucking unfair here. Every protest has its batch of looters and losers looking for trouble, every protest has its parasites.
    This has nothing to do with the current movement, and everything to do with people exploiting chaos and confusion to their own shitty agenda, taking advantage of the fact that the cops are busy elsewhere.
    Pointing out this behavior to diminish the validity of the movement is nothing but a cynical dick move (not saying that's what you're doing, I'm talking about the medias here).
    But this country has a really long history of riots and looting; this is not a "current movement" at all.

    See this perspective.

    But, more importantly, this perspective.

  26. #1526
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    But this country has a really long history of riots and looting; this is not a "current movement" at all.

    See this perspective.

    But, more importantly, this perspective.
    wait, are you contradicting my point while reiterating it ? I'm confused...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    wait, are you contradicting my point while reiterating it ? I'm confused...
    I think that a lot of African Americans would argue that the looters and fire-starters are not necessarily parasites and losers, but are just another subset of the angry protesters against white supremacy, as per that second article.

    This same shit was happening in the 60s; it ain't a "current movement" at all.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-28-2015 at 03:34 PM.

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    So i'm a little unnerved by where this is all heading.
    A fucking CURFEW? National guard troops?
    I think this is a dangerous step down the road to martial law.
    And here's what i think is gonna happen tonight. People will NOT obey the curfew. They will be arrested en masse and taken somewhere other than jail like what happened during the 2004 RNC. Do you guys remember that shit? They just swept up whole blocks of protesters.


    "People were required to show identification cards or face arrest; the arrested people were not immediately informed of charges against them.
    The facility was the then-recently closed Hudson Pier Depot at Pier 57 on the Hudson River, a three-story, block-long pier that has been converted into a temporary prison, though unfit for detention of prisoners. Arrested protesters have complained about extremely poor conditions describing it as overcrowded, dirty, and contaminated with oil and asbestos. People reported having suffered from smell, bad ventilation, and even chemical burns and rashes."




    The RNC thing was pretty much swept under the rug. Tonight will be different because the whole world is already watching. What happens will be pivotal.

    Doesn't a curfew violate the 1st and 14th amendments? They imposed one in Ferguson for a few days, right? And they used military style armored vehicles and national guard troops to impose it.

    But i don't see what is happening in baltimore as an isolated event. I think every incident has heated things up and it's reaching a boiling point at a NATIONAL level. Therefore, i feel that people will be that much more defiant.

    I don't know where this is headed, but i don't think it's gonna be anywhere good. I understand the need to stop violence and looting but i'm terrified of the curfew and militarized police.

    Like the man said, "he who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves neither and is a tool." He said something along those lines. It was Jefferson or Paine or Jesus, someone like that.

    These are just my thoughts. I don't have a CLUE what the right answer is.
    ETS is the most intelligent and opinionated group of people with whom i have ever interacted...what do you guys think?

    (i refused to end the sentence with a preposition and then abused the ellipses JUST for you @allegro)

    EDIT: Oh yeah. I also keep thinking about this Watch the Throne video whenever i see the news lately.
    Whoever came up with the concept for this video...did they, like, feel it coming? It's eerily accurate.


    i'm gonna go listen to baltimore on radioreference.com
    Last edited by elevenism; 04-28-2015 at 07:04 PM.

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    A bunch of morons destroying their own communities trying to change the world. Sucks for the people that didn't do dick to them, but I say let them burn all their own shit down. They're only hurting themselves ultimately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    So i'm a little unnerved by where this is all heading.
    A fucking CURFEW? National guard troops?
    I think this is a dangerous step down the road to martial law.
    Chill, Alex Jones. Same thing happened in '92 during the LA Riots - curfew was set and national guard troops were called in. It's standard protocol. "Martial law" has deposed "FEMA camps" as most popular alarmist phrase.

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