Nirvana

[MicheaelElizabeth]

Now that the new Montage of Heck music is out, what do you nerds think about it?

[armogi]

Now that the new Montage of Heck music is out, what do you nerds think about it?

Well, there are a few interesting things on there and a lot of filler that probably didnt need to be made public. I am sure there are more "songs" in demo form on those tapes so it could have been more interesting, as far as music goes of course. Then again music was probably not the goal here so it is what it is.

[neorev]

Now that the new Montage of Heck music is out, what do you nerds think about it?

Pointless, a waste, material that wasn't meant for the public. This is home noodlings, most don't really sound that great. Half the time he's not really even singing for real. As an artists, I'd be pissed of this shit got out and my label was charging people out the ass for it.

And that's coming from a huge, longtime fan.

Also, Montage Of Hack documentary sucked as well... I honestly didn't feel like I learned anything, no new incite into Kurt. Another waste.
You want a good documentary? Watched Soaked In Bleach. That was a great doc and a real eye opener. You'll actually learn something from it.
But this? Record label bullshit raping the band's fans some more along with a pretentious "hack" director and his Montage Of Crap.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Pointless, a waste, material that wasn't meant for the public. This is home noodlings, most don't really sound that great. Half the time he's not really even singing for real. As an artists, I'd be pissed of this shit got out and my label was charging people out the ass for it.

And that's coming from a huge, longtime fan.

Also, Montage Of Hack documentary sucked as well... I honestly didn't feel like I learned anything, no new incite into Kurt. Another waste.
You want a good documentary? Watched Soaked In Bleach. That was a great doc and a real eye opener. You'll actually learn something from it.
But this? Record label bullshit raping the band's fans some more along with a pretentious "hack" director and his Montage Of Crap.

This, times ten.

I'll go as far as saying the documentary was worthwhile and added to Cobain's legacy on the merits that it gave access to his personal files. How you feel about that is dependent on the individual.

But this companion album is complete and utter horseshit. I was listening to it on Apple Music yesterday, thinking to myself "what purpose does this serve?". Did I really need home recordings of Kurt farting, burping, mumbling incoherently and recording amplifier feedback? Most of the songs on this thing are just 30-second snippets of unnecessary wank that Cobain is probably rolling over in his grave about, knowing it's out there for the world to hear.

Brett Morgan talked this album up, like he'd found some lost Cobain holy grail. What this is is the holy grail of corporate exploitation. I cannot believe that Frances would allow this project to see the light of day, much less help with its creation. She has completely and utterly failed her father in death with this, if you ask me.

[neorev]

This, times ten.

I'll go as far as saying the documentary was worthwhile and added to Cobain's legacy on the merits that it gave access to his personal files. How you feel about that is dependent on the individual.

But this companion album is complete and utter horseshit. I was listening to it on Apple Music yesterday, thinking to myself "what purpose does this serve?". Did I really need home recordings of Kurt farting, burping, mumbling incoherently and recording amplifier feedback? Most of the songs on this thing are just 30-second snippets of unnecessary wank that Cobain is probably rolling over in his grave about, knowing it's out there for the world to hear.

Brett Morgan talked this album up, like he'd found some lost Cobain holy grail. What this is is the holy grail of corporate exploitation. I cannot believe that Frances would allow this project to see the light of day, much less help with its creation. She has completely and utterly failed her father in death with this, if you ask me.

Does Frances not really like her father?
Maybe she wants to ruin his legacy with this crap release or she's pissed off at him and figures she can milk his followers some more who think he's a legend.
Kurt's followers seem to have gotten more out of Kurt than Frances got out of him as a father figure.

As for documentary, they just really hyped it up like it's some huge revelation in his life... when it was mostly just cartoons and doodles.
There was nothing new learned from it, nothing I have not already heard about him.

I feel Soaked In Bleach shows a completely other side... most of Kurt's friends said he wasn't depressed at all and that his lyrics were more jokes than serious.
I don't trust Kurt's mother at all, she abandoned Kurt and is now milking his death.
I felt Soaked In Bleach was mind blowing... you'll hear things that make you go "WTF?!?!?"

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Does Frances not really like her father?
Maybe she wants to ruin his legacy with this crap release or she's pissed off at him and figures she can milk his followers some more who think he's a legend.
Kurt's followers seem to have gotten more out of Kurt than Frances got out of him as a father figure.

Rolling Stone just did a sizeable feature on her earlier this year, about how she's on a crusade to set the record straight about her father's legacy or some-such.

And this is how she honors him...endorsing this complete crap. She is virtually clueless to what her father's legacy entails.

[cicada]

The doco was OK in parts, if a little bloated, but this album is rubbish. It's not even an album, just notes and experiments, the same kind that millions of muso's would have all over the world.

As a fan, it's vaguely interesting to hear his ideas in a very early form, but that's about it. I cant imagine anyone listening to these more than once. The fact that someone has tried to package these up to make some money from longtime die-hards is pretty shameful.

That said, I think the comments in this thread condemning Frances for her part in this are pretty harsh. This is a kid who is undoubtedly fucked up as a result of absent/inadequate parents and intense media attention, who will probably struggle with her lot for the rest of her life. I don't really lay any blame at her feet for this. Brett Morgen on the other hand is a wanker.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

The doco was OK in parts, if a little bloated, but this album is rubbish. It's not even an album, just notes and experiments, the same kind that millions of muso's would have all over the world.

As a fan, it's vaguely interesting to hear his ideas in a very early form, but that's about it. I cant imagine anyone listening to these more than once. The fact that someone has tried to package these up to make some money from longtime die-hards is pretty shameful.

That said, I think the comments in this thread condemning Frances for her part in this are pretty harsh. This is a kid who is undoubtedly fucked up as a result of absent/inadequate parents and intense media attention, who will probably struggle with her lot for the rest of her life. I don't really lay any blame at her feet for this. Brett Morgen on the other hand is a wanker.

She authorised the entire project. Pretty much gave Morgan free reign to her father's archives. She knew exactly what she was doing.

Frances is no dummy. She's actually quite smart, when you get right down to it. Having Courtney for a mother can't be easy but Courtney has had little, if any, influence on Frances in her adult life. She specifically says in that Rolling Stone article how she's tired of seeing her father's legacy get exploited and misunderstood. Then she turns around and authorises dreck like this.

She could have easily seen what Morgan was assembling here for what it was, and vetoed it. Instead, you can get a deluxe MOH package that has nothing to vouch for its exorbitant, commerce-hungry price tag.

Believe me, I've done some homework on this. I wouldn't just bash Frances for this if it wasn't clear as day she is completely mismanaging what she set out to avenge in the first place.

[allegro]

Courtney spent a lot of the money before she was finally cut loose, and now Franny needs to replenish her own funds? I don't think any of this has to do with "Kurt's legacy."

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Courtney spent a lot of the money before she was finally cut loose, and now Franny needs to replenish her own funds? I don't think any of this has to do with "Kurt's legacy."

Read the Rolling Stone article from earlier this year. She clearly states that she wants to restore integrity to Kurt's legacy.

Kurt would have NEVER authorised this type of BS. His bedroom cassette tape experiments being packaged in needless bundles and sold for $100+?

If Frances didn't want Kurt's fans to completely misinterpret her intentions -- in the very slim chance that's what this is -- then she should have said "I really want to restore integrity to my father's legacy, just as soon as I make a fast buck off these bedroom scraps we have coming out later this year..."

[allegro]

Read the Rolling Stone article from earlier this year. She clearly states that she wants to restore integrity to Kurt's legacy

Yes, and she was lying. That documentary and this release do neither, and only bring cash to her and more attention to her mother.

Kurt's legacy was not lacking in "integrity." Courtney's, however (if any), is another story ...

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Yes, and she was lying. That documentary and this release do neither, and only bring cash to her and more attention to her mother.

I wasn't trying to get shitty with you or anything. I just think she did her father a huge disservice with this whole thing, authorising it and such, when only months ago she was speaking out against this very kind of thing. I think a lot of fans had hope that after her mother gutted Kurt's name with the release of his journals, the trashing of his bandmates, the whole Greatest Hits lawsuit, etc., Frances was going to be the one to carry Kurt's torch in a more credible light.

In the months leading up to this collection's release, I think people had a lot of faith in the whole thing, especially Morgan talking up all the stuff he found. And then when the tracklisting leaked and people saw it was stuff that had already been released more than a decade ago and 30-second bullshit snippets of Kurt going to the bathroom or tuning his guitar, people's hearts sank. And once it was revealed that you could only get the deluxe CD in that ridiculous boxset that isn't worth even $50, that was the final straw.

It's fine if people want this kind of thing, but it's clearly (and shamelessly) exploiting his legacy, and few are fooled.

[perceptionnexus]

I tend to agree with the argument that this whole montage of heck project was kinda bullshit.

I watched soaked in bleach last night and, though it didn't really provide anything new in terms of facts surrounding his death, it made me really sad to think about brilliant his next record likely would have been, whether it was with nirvana or not. After the unplugged album, and the few post- in utero songs, I think the guy was just on the verge of writing an absolute masterpiece. I like to think the 4th nirvana LP would have been like their white album.

[allegro]

I wasn't trying to get shitty with you or anything. I just think she did her father a huge disservice with this whole thing, authorising it and such, when only months ago she was speaking out against this very kind of thing. I think a lot of fans had hope that after her mother gutted Kurt's name with the release of his journals, the trashing of his bandmates, the whole Greatest Hits lawsuit, etc., Frances was going to be the one to carry Kurt's torch in a more credible light.

In the months leading up to this collection's release, I think people had a lot of faith in the whole thing, especially Morgan talking up all the stuff he found. And then when the tracklisting leaked and people saw it was stuff that had already been released more than a decade ago and 30-second bullshit snippets of Kurt going to the bathroom or tuning his guitar, people's hearts sank. And once it was revealed that you could only get the deluxe CD in that ridiculous boxset that isn't worth even $50, that was the final straw.

It's fine if people want this kind of thing, but it's clearly (and shamelessly) exploiting his legacy, and few are fooled.

I bought the Journal when it came out, read the whole thing, found it fascinating, I believe it's OBVIOUS that Kurt INTENDED for that stuff to be read and that he WANTED to be famous for all that shit and the kind of insight into his brillance, EGO and opinions, and none of that shit was "personal," it wasn't "dear diary" crap, it was "business plans," album cover designs, endless lists of his favorite bands and who he thought sucked or was underappreciated, etc.

Meanwhile, his MOM on some documentary telling me that Kurt was hyper and had to be put on drugs, etc. is not protecting any "legacy" except maybe everybody is trying to explain why he killed himself but nobody but Kurt knows that, and the Director leaves it like it's Courtney's threatening a ... dun dun DUN ... affair that tortured him so much, when MAYBE he couldn't get away from her so he realized a bullet in his head was better than living with her, meanwhile somehow Franny has (cough) enhanced his "legacy?" All the way to the BANK, baby!!

And the people who think that maybe Kurt killed himself so that he could never be mediocre, and could die before he flamed out like a desperate Michael Jackson trying to make another "Thriller," and that maybe Kurt knew that the next album might not ever top the last 2 albums, which is entirely possible, might be right, and combine that pressure with the crazy wife who wants a new Mercedes, and the drug addiction ... yeah, they should have just left the existing material from 1996.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I generally agree. As the years have gone on, the releases have gotten increasingly suspect

Unplugged in New York: Brilliant. A haunting, poignant last will and testament from a young artist who died far too young.

Muddy Banks of the Wishkah: Not bad. Would have been nice to have one complete show instead of a smattering of live performances from through the years, but still a good live document of Nirvana at the time.

Greatest Hits (Nirvana): Not really necessary, but I can understand the platform for Kurt's final song being unveiled. Anyone who bought this already had the other songs on their respective albums long ago. This was a compromise between Courtney, Dave and Krist.

Journals: Ghoulish and unnecessary, but entertaining as well. I'm not going to lie and say I don't own a copy of this. Like you said, nothing too revealing about his personal life. But this is definitely the point where it became obvious Kurt and Nirvana were now a brand being exploited for profit.

With The Lights Out boxset: I hold this one in high praise because it had a lot of worthwhile stuff on it and fans had been clambering for this kind of thing since the moment Kurt died. It was band endorsed and many of the recordings were of a much higher quality than the bootlegs that had already been circulating for years. A holy grail for Nirvana fans, no question.

Sliver - The Best of the Box: Okay...seriously?

Live at Reading: It's hard to argue with this release; it was a historic concert for the band and is legendary amongst their fans. Whoever created this package did a really nice job, too. I'd been listening to this on bootleg for years prior, so hearing it so loud and crisp came as a bit of a shock, but not in a bad way. Plus, this came out in that glorious November of 2009 when Live at Reading, The Foo's Greatest Hits and Them Crooked Vultures' debut all landed at the same time. Grunge was alive and well again.

Icon (Greatest Hits): *facepalm*

Nevermind 20th Anniversary remaster: Inevitable. No hardcore Nirvana fan was going to turn this away. Brickwall Bob Ludwig did his usual horrific remastering job -- managing to distort and clip fucking boombox cassette demos included with this set. Even @seasonsinthesky can't defend this one. But overall, a beautiful package. Plus, the "Live at Paramount" DVD that was long-sought was finally released as well.

In Utero 20th Anniversary remaster: Inevitable. The Albini mixes are inconsequential because only a true fanatic is going to be able to discern the differences in the mix, but whatever. It also had the complete "Live and Loud" show, at last.

Montage of Heck: Again, the documentary-collage thing was interesting and has its place in Cobain legacy. But the accompanying album signifies the nadir in exploiting the guy's name. Read the reviews online and people are appalled by this barrel-scraping. What more can there possibly be, save for whatever obligatory live releases are out there? Maybe release the band's final concert or final filmed performance for the 25th anniversary of his death, but other than that, leave it be already.

[cicada]

I generally agree. As the years have gone on, the releases have gotten increasingly suspect

This is kinda obvious when you think about it, anything worthwhile has already been unearthed and released long ago. The further we go on, the less valid material there is for the bottom feeders to attempt to monetize. Same phenomenon can be see with Tupac and Biggie Smalls. That said, MoH soundtrack is one of the worst posthumous releases I've ever come across. EVER.

On Frances, I'm not denying she made a terrible decision in authorising the release of MoH. I just think it's a bit unrealistic to expect someone with her upbringing to be some great champion of artistic integrity. She's surely gotta have some sizable chips on those shoulders.

[allegro]

Or, she simply needs more money because Mom ran through a lot of the cash and it does not appear that Franny has any lucrative career plans of her own (she is a "visual artist") and she did not exactly marry a stock broker. She is what we call a "TFB" in the legal biz: Trust Fund Baby. They often never have money-making jobs of their own.

Look, Franny's Dad left her when she was 2 by killing himself and her Mom has issues but let us not forget that Franny gave guardianship to her Dad's family before she turned 18 (now expired), it isn't like she was an orphan; as a child of a single parent, I resent the implication that she is somehow doomed to a life of failure for that fact; if anything, her life of priviledge is even worse.

She was Executive Producer of the HBO documentary which means SHE PAID FOR IT.

[cicada]

Yeah that too. In either case, I can't really feel disappointed or mad with her. Dealt a fairly shit hand IMO

[allegro]

I don't agree. I think she is doing fairly well, an EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, a career she wants, no worries about money, a Trust Fund, a new husband who appears to be a kindred spirit, she has decision-making abilities re her Dad's part of Nirvana, etc. More than a lot of what YOU people have. A lot of people in the U.S. have living Dads who might as well be dead, and she has way more than them.

I have a living Dad who has never once remembered my birthday or sent me a card (like Kurt's Dad). He is not on the cover of Rolling Stone, nobody gives a shit about him, and I don't have a Trust Fund. Boo hoo.

If she makes decisions to sell things re Kurt, PT Barnum comes to mind (sucker born every minute).

She is not totally at fault. Just like the drug dealer is not totally at fault (they wouldn't exist if there were no junkies).

If she is selling, and you are buying ... that's just Capitalism.

[cicada]

I note your disagreement. I am also disappointed your old man isn't on the cover of Rolling Stone, that's some bullshit.

[allegro]

Yeah, he looks just like Elvis when he was blonde, he's disappointed, too.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

So has anyone watched that Soaked In Bleach documentary?

[fishtifer]

I watched Soaked In Bleach, it's very good - makes you think it may not have been a suicide.

[neorev]

So has anyone watched that Soaked In Bleach documentary?

Yes, an amazing doc. My girl was one of those people who thought "You're just a crazy fan for thinking Kurt was murdered." Then she watched that doc with me and it completely changed her point of view. She was like "What the fuck?" after it was finished. It really does show something went down and it's not the typical druggy commits suicide story. More folks need to watch this. There's just too much fucked up stuff surrounding this case.

[emptydesk]

Utter garbage with the production values of a Dateline episode. Tom Grant has been beating this same dead horse for years and getting nowhere with it.

Notice how they presented edited phone conversations as if they took place in person? That should be a warning sign about the film's journalistic integrity.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Yes, an amazing doc. My girl was one of those people who thought "You're just a crazy fan for thinking Kurt was murdered." Then she watched that doc with me and it completely changed her point of view. She was like "What the fuck?" after it was finished. It really does show something went down and it's not the typical druggy commits suicide story. More folks need to watch this. There's just too much fucked up stuff surrounding this case.

Interesting.

I definitely don't buy into the whole "Cobain was murdered" thing, but I've been meaning to check out SIB regardless before I start saying the whole theory is bullshit. I'm going to check it out over the next week or so and see what I think.

[armogi]

this is a must watch if you have any interest in Cobain, I also don't believe the murder thoery thing but there are several elements that are puzzling in this case and this movie/documentary despites its faults points them out rather well.

[henryeatscereal]

Gonna check the documentary.

Funny, i was listening "Incesticide" today...

[Hazekiah]

[Hazekiah]

Hate to double-post and all...

But the pal who filmed that for me had never heard "I Hate Myself and Want to Die" before that night so I made sure to play it for him. He's a BIG FAN now! Except he just posted a YT fan-made lyric video that was SO FUCKING WRONG I finally had to man up and step in, lol. Because apparently NO ONE ELSE ON THE ENTIRE INTERNET knows how to transcribe lyrics properly.

Or maybe I've just been doing this since the day The Beavis & Butthead Experience CD came out and I watched too many old surfing movies with my dad?

Either way, here you go!

runny nose and runny yolk
even if you have a cold still
you can cough on me again
I still haven't had my fulfill

ENDLESS SOMEDAY
WHAT'S THAT SOUND?

broken heart and broken bones
think of plaster casts and the horse pills
one more quirky, clichéd phrase
you're the one I wanna refill

ENDLESS SOMEDAY
WHAT'S THAT SOUND?

most people don't realize
that two large pieces of coral painted brown
and attached to his skull ​with common wood screws
can make a child look like a deer

ENDLESS SOMEDAY
WHAT'S THAT SOUND?

runny nose and runny yolk
even if you have a cold still
you can cough on me again
I still haven't had my fulfill

ENDLESS SOMEDAY
WHAT'S THAT SOUND?