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Thread: Better Call Saul

  1. #241
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    Loved the episode, but it made me f'n sad...

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    Loved the episode, but it made me f'n sad...
    ..

  3. #243
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    What a great finale to an amazing show! I'm sorry it's over because I will certainly miss it, but at least it was about as good of an ending as we could have hoped for. Of course, it wasn't as explosive as Breaking Bad's ending, but it was a fitting and satisfying (and honestly, more realistic) conclusion, which is what truly matters.

    Spoiler: Prior to watching, there were a few things I expected or hoped to see:
    • I was hoping to see the death of the "Saul" and "Gene" personas, and the return of Jimmy, the good person he once was. It was interesting to see him briefly return to being Saul when he was making his deal with the prosecutors. But even though he walked into the courtroom as Saul (with a very Saul-appropriate suit), he left the courtroom as Jimmy, even reclaiming his given name at the end of his testimony.
    • I wanted to see a face-to-face reunion for Kim & Jimmy before saying farewell to both characters. I correctly guessed that he only got Kim involved so that she could be present to witness his confession, but I was still on the edge of my seat. I loved the scene where they shared a final cigarette (by the way, was the burning "cherry" tip in color? It looked like it...) like they used to in the parking garage of HHM.
    • I had predicted that we'd get one more scene with Chuck (via flashback) to kind of bookend the show.
    • I'd been suspecting that Jimmy would either get caught or turn himself in and confess to his crimes, possibly after being encouraged by Kim. I was surprised how early in the episode he was busted, though!
    • I knew there was one more Walter White cameo waiting in the wings, but had no idea when it would be set. The setting made perfect sense and also perfectly complimented the earlier flashback with Mike.

    Things that surprised me:
    • The preview from last week of his old car in the desert had me thinking he'd return to it in the present for some reason, so I wasn't expecting a flashback scene with him and Mike, even though I probably should have because that makes more sense.
    • I was pretty surprised that Bill Oakley agreed to take Saul/Jimmy on as a client. I thought he might briefly consider it, but ultimately decline.
    • I was also very surprised to see Marie! It made perfect sense that she'd be there, but I definitely didn't see that coming.
    • I liked the scene of Jimmy making bread in the prison and the parallels to his job at Cinnabon. They even had the same dough mixer.

    I love how the three men who had the biggest impact on his life (Mike, Chuck, and Walt, who are all also dead) got one final scene and there was a common theme running through them all – in all of these moments, they're displaying some level of regret and trying to share it with him, but he won't open up and allow himself to be vulnerable enough to share his own. Seeing him resist all of these opportunities to be honest (with others and himself) and think about how he'd change things in his life for the better makes it that much more impactful and satisfying when he finally does it in the courtroom after luring Kim there to witness it (and maybe to make sure he followed through with it).


    What an amazing show! I'll miss this world filled with all of these rich characters. Now to start rewatching Breaking Bad again!
    Last edited by sonic_discord; 08-22-2022 at 11:18 AM. Reason: fixed typo

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1ke View Post
    ..
    My thoughts exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    I think Jimmy/Saul/Gene gets caught and ends up in jail, that way the "trilogy" is complete:

    Walter = Dead
    Pinkman = Free
    Goodman = Jailed
    who knew?

  5. #245
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    Wow. What... A... Ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic_discord
    Spoiler: I loved the scene where they shared a final cigarette (by the way, was the burning "cherry" tip in color?
    Spoiler: Yes, it was! This is probably my favorite scene in the entire season; it is Noire to the bone. This was their first scene in season 1, and also their last.

    Also, it makes me think back on the scene where they transition from the grave to Saul laying in his bed. I thought it was subtle foreshadowing how Saul will be gone in some form. Seeing Jimmy tear up after speaking on Howard really shows that he isn't a monster, just someone that was cursed with greed.

    The direct callback to season 1 with the Sandpiper case just becoming a thing, you find Jimmy in the dumpster, just as he finds himself in yet, another dumpster made me chuckle.

    The perfect transformation from Saul to Jimmy was really nice to see. It all starts when he finds out that Kim has already spilled the beans about the entire Howard situation, and Saul is all but gone once he starts talking about Chuck.

    The subtle, yet affective treats the director does with the exit sign humming is another direct callback when Chuck is on the stand, along with the cross hair pattern that is surrounding as Kim she sits and watches.

    The scene with Jimmy and Chuck was pretty amazing. But to end that with showing Chuck reading "The Time Machine" I thought was pretty great, as you see Jimmy with the book several times throughout the series. He cannot run from his past forever. You notice as he asks the question to all 3 characters who are now gone... He doesn't get to ask that question to Chuck, nor does and I would like to think that he was planning on it, since this was one of the more candid moments between the brothers.

    Chuck tried to solidify the idea that Jimmy was born the way we always saw him, but this is debunked after he makes that huge change to be Jimmy again after finding out what Kim ultimately did. Him asking Mike and Walter about where they would go with a time machine shows how much he really is searching for who he is, and gives a ridiculous answer to both of them.

    It also shows how, even though he helped Walter turn into what he was, they are not the same. Walter having cancer made him drive the desicions he made for wanting to be respected again and lose that fear... Enter Heisenberg. Jimmy really just wanted to be loved and respected, and he finds that with Kim.

    I still like Breaking Bad a tad more, but I'd say with Breaking Bad, El Camino, and Better Call Saul... This is probably my favorite batch of a series, ever next to Mr. Robot.

    They nailed it.
    Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 08-17-2022 at 06:33 PM.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    Spoiler: Also, it makes me think back on the scene where they transition from the grave to Saul laying in his bed.
    Spoiler: Yeah, I loved that transition! It stood out in a show packed with clever and inventive transitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    Spoiler: The direct callback to season 1 with the Sandpiper case just becoming a thing, you find Jimmy in the dumpster, just as he finds himself in yet, another dumpster made me chuckle.
    Spoiler: The scene where he crawls into the dumpster to hide from the police immediately reminded me of the first episode of this season when, in a flashforward to right after Saul had disappeared with Ed's help, the police are seizing property from his mansion and they throw a cardboard cutout of Saul into the dumpster. Watching the dumpster scene in the finale, I suddenly realized that the scene in S6E1 was forshadowing hidden in plain sight. I love this show's attention to detail with things like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    I still like Breaking Bad a tad more, but I'd say with Breaking Bad, El Camino, and Better Call Saul... This is probably my favorite batch of a series, ever next to Mr. Robot.

    They nailed it.
    Absolutely! I loved them all – including Mr. Robot!
    Last edited by sonic_discord; 08-17-2022 at 09:39 PM.

  7. #247
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    I just watched this show in its entirety for the first time. I enjoyed the ride... Lot of hype on this show, and it's a great show that remixes Breaking Bad and fixed some of that shows issues but also retains some of it's problems... Even ones that it sets out to fix. It struggles with representation, even and especially with women, all while course correcting for what they did with Skylar I'm breaking bad. And while Kim is the shows best and most interesting character, it is just not enough nn 2022. Both shows fail to recognize and depict crime and violence as a product of a broken system, instead it's the vocation of a string of bored hobbyists with other options that are just less exciting. The show does well to glorify public defender work, but it ultimately is disinterested in how the justice system as a whole failed the clients of that work, and remains shockingly sympathetic to police, across both series, for shows that feature a criminal at it's center. Breaking Bad is often including among Mad Men and the Wire in competition for the all time great TV show. But Breaking Bad and Saul just aren't as clever or compassionate as the Wire, which remains extremely relevant today... It's always frustrated me that the Wire is the least familiar of these shows in popular conversation, even as the Wire gets its own quasi sequel this year.

    Still Better Call Saul is very well written taken on it's mertis. As with many shows theres a shift towards theore dramatic towards the back end and a bit of finger wagging at the viewer for daring to root for the main character. The first half of the show is a little bit a better and a lot more engaging. The conflict between Jimmy and his brother being more grounded if a bit protracted. I feel like the show never recaptured the magic of an early moment in which Jimmy finds a fugitive family hiding in their own back yard. Somewhere in the multiverse, the show takes that direction, and maybe is better for it.

    In that way, the first and second halves of better call Saul themselves feel like distinct shows, split by it's slog of a 4th season, which allows the final two seasons to feel more brisk and more focused. Was that season hard to watch live? I could see why season 5 is when I started to notice that people were starting to get really happy with this show. The focus really shifts to Kim and Jimmy and their relationship. Finally honing in on the most interesting part of the show. Like so much media today it felt unfortunately averse to sentimentality, nuturing and sexuality, I wish it could have had more of that and less bleakness. But there was a richness to Kim wexler and the way she carried her relationship and work and interests that finally hits it's stride towards the end. If the franchise is going to continue, I'd love to see the sequel centered around her.

  8. #248
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    I was expecting a more dramatic ending, but this made sense. Like @sonic_discord said, a realistic one. I enjoyed it very much.

    Now let's see what the two spin-off shows are about!

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    I just watched this show in its entirety for the first time. (It) remixes Breaking Bad and fixed some of that shows issues but also retains some of it's problems...
    Ok so DUDE. You know I'm not trolling you. We've talked a bit, back and forth, for going on ten years.

    But...Breaking Bad's...ISSUES?!
    You sort of immediately lost me, there.

    No offense, but perhaps you could get into the finer points of why The Sopranos sucked? Maybe explain why Twilight Zone.and Seinfeld and Twin Peaks don't deserve our time? Star Trek, perhaps?

    Again, I think you're cool as shit.
    But good god.
    You're speaking on "problems" in a GOAT contender TV show.

    There AREN'T problems. That's WHY it's right there with The Sopranos and The Leftovers when people talk about the greatest shows ever put to film.

    It's like you're talking about the "" problems" with Casablanca, or a Basquiat, or...

    Ok I'll stop.
    Last edited by elevenism; 08-24-2022 at 02:19 PM.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Ok so DUDE. You know I'm not trolling you. We've talked a bit, back and forth, for going on ten years.

    But...Breaking Bad's...ISSUES?!
    You sort of immediately lost me, there.

    No offense, but perhaps you could get into the finer points of why The Sopranos sucked? Maybe explain why Twilight Zone.and Seinfeld and Twin Peaks don't deserve our time? Star Trek, perhaps?

    Again, I think you're cool as shit.
    But good god.
    You're speaking on "problems" in a GOAT contender TV show.

    There AREN'T problems. That's WHY it's right there with The Sopranos and The Leftovers when people talk about the greatest shows ever put to film.

    It's like you're talking about the "" problems" with Casablanca, or a Basquiat, or...

    Ok I'll stop.
    I appreciate you saying that, and I don't feel disrespected. I love Breaking Bad and often I get caught up in my criticisms more than my praise, I enjoyed all of the Easter eggs and cameos from Breaking Bad in this show as well. That said I don't think Breaking Bad, or any show, is flawless. While breaking Bad has absolutely earned it's place as GOAT contender I think there are aspects of it that hold it back. I will say my retrospective feeling still have Breaking Bad better than Better Call Saul, even though I know the latter is a bit more streamlined, a bit more interested in kindness, and has Kim Wexler, I think a more interesting character than any on the original show. Famously, Breaking Bad, struggles in it's depiction of Skylar White, but I also think it has structural issues stemming from the simple fact that the writers weren't sure exactly how long the final show would be. As I mentioned in the original post, I think a better grip on social consciousness and compassion ultimately puts the Wire above these shows.

    I haven't seen the Sopranos, but Twin Peaks and Seinfeld are two of my favorite shows as well and I'll happily offer up criticisms of those as well. Hell, I like twin peaks more than breaking bad but I'll readily resign that that second season is really, really hard to get through.

    I do think there's something to be said about how "the canon" treats women and has a tendency to enthrone movies about men doing violent crime. It's an aspect of cultural conversations that I've internalized *and* experienced as a part of film school that I've been trying to unpack for the last few years. Shows like this or Mad Men and their thematic ubiquity against the relative obscurity of Mrs. Maisel or the abrupt cancellation of GLOW. But yeah, I'll rarely be put in front of a work I love and find no criticism.

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