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Thread: spaceSuicide's Horrortastic Horrific Horror Film Thread...Of Horror!

  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    What? Not every movie that has people running from a CG monster is horror. Super 8 is a perfect example of this... Even Hereditary isn't horror in some people's eyes. It absolutely is matter of opinion lol.
    That's why I also said it's designed to elicit fear in the audience, which is the primary distinction of a horror movie.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/scr...a-horror-film/

    The reason I say it's not subjective is because it's about what the filmmakers intended. Beck & Woods wrote a script intended to be a horror movie, John Krasinski adapted and filmed it as a horror movie, and the studio marketed it as a horror movie... so it's a horror movie.

    Like, you can argue about whether Fight Club is a comedy—it's a funny movie but doesn't use jokes as its primary driver—but you can't argue whether or not Knocked Up is a comedy. It may not have made you laugh, but it is, by design, a comedy.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadflax View Post
    That's why I also said it's designed to elicit fear in the audience, which is the primary distinction of a horror movie.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/scr...a-horror-film/

    The reason I say it's not subjective is because it's about what the filmmakers intended. Beck & Woods wrote a script intended to be a horror movie, John Krasinski adapted and filmed it as a horror movie, and the studio marketed it as a horror movie... so it's a horror movie.

    Like, you can argue about whether Fight Club is a comedy—it's a funny movie but doesn't use jokes as its primary driver—but you can't argue whether or not Knocked Up is a comedy. It may not have made you laugh, but it is, by design, a comedy.
    By design yea.... But it is STILL up for opinion to the audience. Back to the Future was written by Zemeckis and Gale and everyone on the table saw it as a Sci-fi adventure and the star of the film (Eric Stoltz) was the only one that saw the story as a tragedy... Yea, this view ultimately got him canned, but for HIM, that is how he perceived the script and feel of the movie.

    While the respective writers sought out to make a horror movie, it is still up to us to decide whether it really is or not.

    "Horror films are unsettling movies that strive to elicit the emotions of fear, disgust and horror from viewers. They often feature scenes that startle the viewer through the means of macabre and the supernatural, thus frequently overlapping with the fantasy and science fiction genres. Horrors also frequently overlap with the thriller genre.”

    Ok... And I already pointed out that horror and thriller are correlated in my last post. So with overlapping genres, does it ultimately make A Quiet Place a full blown horror movie? No... It doesn't.
    Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 10-30-2020 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    By design yea.... But it is STILL up for opinion to the audience. Back to the Future was written by Zemeckis and Gale and everyone on the table saw it as a Sci-fi adventure and the star of the film (Eric Stoltz) was the only one that saw the story as a tragedy... Yea, this view ultimately got him canned, but for HIM, that is how he perceived the script and feel of the movie.

    While the respective writers sought out to make a horror movie, it is still up to us to decide whether it really is or not.

    "Horror films are unsettling movies that strive to elicit the emotions of fear, disgust and horror from viewers. They often feature scenes that startle the viewer through the means of macabre and the supernatural, thus frequently overlapping with the fantasy and science fiction genres. Horrors also frequently overlap with the thriller genre.”

    Ok... And I already pointed out that horror and thriller are correlated in my last post. So with overlapping genres, does it ultimately make A Quiet Place a full blown horror movie? No... It doesn't.
    You're twisting my words again. I didn't say "full blown" horror movie; I said horror movie. Shaun Of The Dead is a horror romantic comedy; it can be all three of those things without "full blown" being any one of them.

    But I think we can agree on most of this and agree to disagree about the rest. I study and write about film and can say for sure that genre plays heavily into the writing process. When people set out to make sci-fi, horror, comedy, etc., they are working in a specific genre to make their thing, using the language and history of the genre to inform their process. That said, plenty of movies are cross-genre, and some are made without a specific genre in mind, but they tend to be much harder to greenlight, as studios get scared when they can't market the movie to a specific demographic. I did a deep dive on AQP when I wrote that video, so I can say with 100% certainty that no one making it was intending to do anything other than make a horror movie.

    And I understand your point isn't about what the creator was intending but how about how the consumer perceives it—but there has to be a limit to how far you can take that. Do you get to decide whether or not a McDonald's hamburger is a hamburger? It may not be up to most people's standards for what they want out of a hamburger, but it's a beef patty on a bun and therefore, by definition, a hamburger. Technically, anyone has the right to say it's not a hamburger, just as anyone has the right to say 2+2=5, but what's the value in that? Plato spoke about a similar thing with his theory of forms. Basically, the same thing as the hamburger situation but with a chair. He argued that all people can agree that a chair is an object designed for people to sit upon. So it's about what the intention was behind the thing and whether it serves that function, not about whether or not the consumer decides it does. A person with no arms or legs will still recognize a bicycle as a bicycle, even if they can't use it for its intended function, you know?

  4. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadflax View Post
    You're twisting my words again. I didn't say "full blown" horror movie; I said horror movie. Shaun Of The Dead is a horror romantic comedy; it can be all three of those things without "full blown" being any one of them.

    But I think we can agree on most of this and agree to disagree about the rest. I study and write about film and can say for sure that genre plays heavily into the writing process. When people set out to make sci-fi, horror, comedy, etc., they are working in a specific genre to make their thing, using the language and history of the genre to inform their process. That said, plenty of movies are cross-genre, and some are made without a specific genre in mind, but they tend to be much harder to greenlight, as studios get scared when they can't market the movie to a specific demographic. I did a deep dive on AQP when I wrote that video, so I can say with 100% certainty that no one making it was intending to do anything other than make a horror movie.

    And I understand your point isn't about what the creator was intending but how about how the consumer perceives it—but there has to be a limit to how far you can take that. Do you get to decide whether or not a McDonald's hamburger is a hamburger? It may not be up to most people's standards for what they want out of a hamburger, but it's a beef patty on a bun and therefore, by definition, a hamburger. Technically, anyone has the right to say it's not a hamburger, just as anyone has the right to say 2+2=5, but what's the value in that? Plato spoke about a similar thing with his theory of forms. Basically, the same thing as the hamburger situation but with a chair. He argued that all people can agree that a chair is an object designed for people to sit upon. So it's about what the intention was behind the thing and whether it serves that function, not about whether or not the consumer decides it does. A person with no arms or legs will still recognize a bicycle as a bicycle, even if they can't use it for its intended function, you know?
    I totally agree with what you're saying. Ugh, I wasn't trying to come off that way with the hamburger and chair examples, or the word twisting, hahaa, but of course there is a limit .

    Their intentions were to simply make a horror film and I will never try to denounce them of that, but of course more nuances come into play when it comes to writing in film and literature form than a chair (As I'm sure you know lol). I've been diving more into film lately and try to get the most I can out of what I watch now. Of course some films are affected by hype and some I just watch to enjoy like it seems like you did with AQP, I maybe could have left some of my expectations at the door, but the acting and the beginning were so good, it just never came together for me.

    I wanted to care about what was happening to the characters, but I kind of didn't and I couldn't figure out why.

    With your knowledge, I'm curious to know what you thought of Hereditary? I've been talking to friends for about a week now about it and it's still split down the middle.
    Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 10-30-2020 at 02:14 PM.

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    I totally agree with what you're saying. Ugh, I wasn't trying to come off that way with the hamburger and chair examples, or the word twisting, hahaa, but of course there is a limit .

    Their intentions were to simply make a horror film and I will never try to denounce them of that, but of course more nuances come into play when it comes to writing in film and literature form than a chair (As I'm sure you know lol). I've been diving more into film lately and try to get the most I can out of what I watch now. Of course some films are affected by hype and some I just watch to enjoy like it seems like you did with AQP, I maybe could have left some of my expectations at the door, but the acting and the beginning were so good, it just never came together for me.

    I wanted to care about what was happening to the characters, but I kind of didn't and I couldn't figure out why.
    Yeah, I totally get that. But that's also why I think it's important to make the distinction between something not working for you vs. deciding it doesn't get to be what it is just because you don't like it. It's the equivalent of sitting in a chair that isn't comfortable and arguing it therefore isn't a chair. With the current political climate, arguments like that start to feel icky, lol.

  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    With your knowledge, I'm curious to know what you thought of Hereditary? I've been talking to friends for about a week now about it and it's still split down the middle.
    I think Ari Aster is a master of tone. He wants me to feel uneasy and on edge during his movies, and that's exactly what I felt during Hereditary and Midsommer.

    That said, I think the structure of Hereditary keeps it from succeeding as a solid film. It felt like every 20-30 minutes, it changed what kind of movie it was, which meant I was never able to fully immerse myself in it. High concept movies need to establish rules in the first act and then have everything beyond that be an extension of these rules (or at least be the result of a very clear, purposeful, and earned decision to break a rule). Hereditary waited until the last 10 minutes to tell me the rules, by which point I was long past caring.

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadflax View Post
    Yeah, I totally get that. But that's also why I think it's important to make the distinction between something not working for you vs. deciding it doesn't get to be what it is just because you don't like it. It's the equivalent of sitting in a chair that isn't comfortable and arguing it therefore isn't a chair. With the current political climate, arguments like that start to feel icky, lol.
    Exactly lol.

    I read about the original cut for Hereditary being almost 3 hours long and there were times it felt like a couple of things were left on the cutting room floor. The shifting was what actually worked for me not really knowing where the film was going after you made a few assumptions before thinking you figured it all out; I didn't feel fooled.

    The build up towards the end I thought was very well done. I really felt for Annie's character when she realizes she didn't know what she did when talking to Steve about it. In my head I said (Please let the flies really be in the attic, please don't let him be in on it) I didn't want that typical climax... his body language coming out of the attic made me think that lol. The little elements as well like the creepy followers at the wake, you don't think anything of it until you see them standing outside of the house and in dark doorways (I didn't notice them standing outside the first time) or one of his friends he smokes with is in the tree house at the end.. Little things like that mess with your head.

  8. #1628
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    Also forgot to mention I wish they used the deaf mechanic a bit more in the film and our point of view was through Regan much more... those moments I found EXTREMELY effective; especially the opening scene and the other when the kids are trapped in the car.

    Kudos to Krasinski for making that a non-negotiable casting with using an actress that was actually deaf.

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    I don't care to chime in on whether or not A Quiet Place is technically a horror movie or not, but I will just say in my opinion it is not a good horror movie. Or good movie for that matter.

    Two of my non horror fan friends showed it to me and at the time it was very hyped up. I gave it a fair shake and I absolutely did not like it. I don't get how people think it is good. One of my friends called it the scariest thing ever. Just, how? Afterwards I recommended they go watch Alien. I mean I try to teach the normals about the good horror but they never listen (snobby sarcasm).

    But seriously, get cgi the fuck away from the horror genre! Especially when its the main antagonist. Not saying it can't be used to make a good film look better in parts but it can't be the focus. Bad enough all the marvel movies are just green screen punching videogame cgi characters like some power rangers for adults shit.

    And yeah for me, Hereditary works specifically because of the film's structure and tone. It didn't need to set rules in the first ten minutes and then play in that sandbox because the protagonists themselves don't yet know those rules. You're on the same trip they are and that's why it works. That movie will be good 40 years from now. No one will give a shit about A Quiet Place by then. At least, they shouldn't.

  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post
    I don't care to chime in on whether or not A Quiet Place is technically a horror movie or not, but I will just say in my opinion it is not a good horror movie. Or good movie for that matter.

    Two of my non horror fan friends showed it to me and at the time it was very hyped up. I gave it a fair shake and I absolutely did not like it. I don't get how people think it is good. One of my friends called it the scariest thing ever. Just, how? Afterwards I recommended they go watch Alien. I mean I try to teach the normals about the good horror but they never listen (snobby sarcasm).

    But seriously, get cgi the fuck away from the horror genre! Especially when its the main antagonist.
    Agreed. That is what I got out of it for the most part. It still worked for me for a bit until they showed the creature literally minutes into the movie, but it still held a mystery factor until they started doing the close up ear hole thing over and over... Like we get it. This tends to happen to many creature features and it really takes me out of the experience more than half the time. My main problem was with the characters; I wanted the son to die in the beginning and I didn't care whatsoever what was happening to them half way through the movie. I wanted to, but it just doesn't make a whole lotta sense when you start the constructive criticism on it.

    And yeah for me, Hereditary works specifically because of the film's structure and tone. It didn't need to set rules in the first ten minutes and then play in that sandbox because the protagonists themselves don't yet know those rules. You're on the same trip they are and that's why it works. That movie will be good 40 years from now. No one will give a shit about A Quiet Place by then. At least, they shouldn't.
    Exactly. I wanted to bring up the rules factor earlier... Being in the point of view of Annie and Peter and being just as clueless as they were until those final 20 minutes made the unraveling that much more shocking to me. This film didn't play by the rules at all and that is why it is so masterful to me.
    Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 10-30-2020 at 08:47 PM.

  11. #1631
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    I just watched Spiral on Shudder, and I have some mixed feelings about it. It's a well-made movie, the music is moody and effective, most of the performances are good, the concept is in a lot of ways original (though it's also derivative), and it's an engaging, entertaining movie with some authentically unnerving moments.

    All that said, most of the characters are pretty 2-dimensional, the larger points about socio political issues and homophobia don't really connect to the horrific and haunting cult stuff or most of the general horror devices, and it really gets convoluted (and heavy-handed) in the last half an hour or so while it abandons a lot of open-ended threads that seemed to be incomplete symbols, especially when they're just tossed off without any real resolution. It's also really hard to deny that the movie is mashing together Rosemary's Baby and Get Out in a pretty blatant way.

    Overall you could do a lot worse, but I felt it didn't deliver on its promise.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 11-01-2020 at 12:55 AM.

  12. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    It still worked for me for a bit until they showed the creature literally minutes into the movie, but it still held a mystery factor until they started doing the close up ear hole thing over and over...


    This film didn't play by the rules at all and that is why it is so masterful to me.
    Yes! The ear cgi wasn't good at all and they kept using it. It was bad horror, it was bad film making, and it was even bad cgi. Every time those things were on screen my brain was stuck on "fake, fake, its all bad cartoon looking fake." Special effects from decades ago may be dated by todays standards and seem campy. But if I'm watching videodrome or something like that it still at least has the benefit of being a real thing that existed in the real world. Maybe I'm too old? I just think cgi is not the way.

    I think most great horror films understand there really are no rules. Its about getting into the subconscious of the viewer. The original Halloween has almost no blood compared to other slashers of the era, its about the evil in the shadows and thats why it stands above its peers. The Shining subverted the jump scare trend by having the camera show the character reaction before we the audience even see what they're reacting to, and it didn't explain its plot. The Exorcist much like Hereditary doesn't show its cards until well into the film. The Witch is about what lurks beneath the seen in everyday experience and the silence of god. Alien deals with the existential fear that we aren't alone in the universe but that we may be biologically overmatched in every way by an unknown predator. And Alien knew to keep the images and sightings of the xenomorph brief so it lingers in the imagination. I could go on but you get the idea...

  13. #1633
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    ^^^ it is very miniscule, but those newspapers looked like they were fresh off the press, along with other set pieces that just looked too fresh for people that have been living in isolation for 89 to 464 days or whatever. I also kept asking "Why can they not wear socks in the house?" "What did Lee burn that doesn't make noise?" Fire makes noise... The film had a great idea and it was just executed poorly. Fuck this movie.

    Just caught Countdown tonight. While it was by no means good, it had some decent scenes and fresh ideas for a gimmicky premise. Plus, the demon they are dealing with is super spooky looking. Not bad to pass the time before Halloween goes bye bye .
    Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 10-30-2020 at 11:25 PM.

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    ok, i finally vvatched The VVitch tonight and i honestly loved it (sorry, @blasster ) and now i'll be going to be terrified of the fact that we have a baby due in exactly 30 days o.O


    sorry I had to

  15. #1635
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    the Mortuary Collection is really a let down, isn't it? Really wanted to love this more than I did. This felt like I was the target market for this, and... I'm just not feeling it.

    Glad to see love for The Witch though. Big fan of the folk horror revival

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    Did anyone happen to purchase the new giant Second Sight Dawn of the Dead box set?

    Context for asking: seeing if anyone DID order and HAS received it, if they would be willing to share the files from the two DeWolfe cds. I own the incidental music LP and would really love to hear the additional tracks they've added to this set that expanded it to two CDs now instead of one.
    Last edited by Reznor2112; 11-10-2020 at 12:06 PM.

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