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Thread: Europe lurches to the Right

  1. #91
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    Yeah fromm what I've heard and read, everyone wants the break-up to be done with ASAP, now that the decision's made.

  2. #92
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    Only problem being: the ball's in London now. The EU can't act until the British apply for a leave.

    You can imagine how EU leaders feel about Cameron deciding to take a few months time until his party finally figured out who will follow him...

  3. #93
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    Nobody is going to be pleased with UK beating around the bush, its been that way since the 70ies (I want to say since WWII, but that's not the point), there's enough of that.
    The UK wasn't quite sure it wanted to be part of the EU, now it's not quite sure it wants to be out? Come on... Its like a boyfriend who never wanted to move in, who eventually decided to call it quits, and now wants to stay in the couch for a few months while he gathers his things.
    I hate to see UK go, but if it has to go, just go...

  4. #94
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    I'm so pissed off. The Leave campaigners are full of shit, apart from Boris Johnson saying 'err there's no rush to invoke article 50' (well Europe may disagree you floppy haired twat). There just seems to be radio silence when they should be reassuring people! Uurggh
    I don't think even they were expecting to win, so they're just running around with no idea of what to do. Boris and Nigel were probably up all night drinking champagne from the Jimmy Choos of Polish strippers, as well.

  6. #96
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    I signed that but I don't necessarily think it's the right thing, it's clutching at straws.

    I don't want to leave but @Khrz is right, now it's been done we need someone to take charge and get on with it. It takes 2 years anyway but we need decisive action to give some financial stability.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    I signed that but I don't necessarily think it's the right thing, it's clutching at straws.

    I don't want to leave but [MENTION=2023]It takes 2 years anyway but we need decisive action to give some financial stability.
    Exactly. Stalling won't do any good to anyone, in fact it will only make things way harder. Neither the UK nor the EU can afford to stay in limbo, now less than ever. UK needs to come up with solutions for its own financial safety, and the EU needs to be able to move on quick, otherwise the extreme right will have a field day everywhere making it seem like leaving the union is no big deal.
    At least UK kept its currency, our own "dissidents" are even more stupid, saying we'll be better off jumping ship...

  8. #98
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    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7102931.html
    I can see how this approach is tempting, and part of me is rooting for some way to stop this idiocy and for the UK to stay
    ...but again, like the contents of that referendum, they needed to say this stuff before.
    Since they didn't it is just a case of trying to bolt the door after the horse has escaped.

  9. #99
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    On the other hand, there's no saving faces now. The tories either own up the forecoming mess that a departure entails, o back off and look like utter morons. Either way they're drowning in a huge, smoldering pool of shit.
    Might as well pretend it was all a joke and look like idiots anyway. I mean, it's not like the mess could be any worse at this point, it won't divide Britain any further...

  10. #100
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    Why Brexit is the biggest step backward since World Ward II

    Ouch.

    From the outside, it looks like a huge bunch of people got drunk and, like drunk people mostly do, made bad decisions and woke up the next morning, going WTF JUST HAPPENED?

    I feel for you guys, I really do. I cannot imagine how you are going to get out of this mess.

  11. #101
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    Well some people apparently are now claiming they only wanted it to be a protest vote, but on the other hand there's no statistics about that, so there's no way to tell if it's any significant... But thanks for fucking up the democratic process just because you wanted to piss your pants in a temper tantrum. That's how we almost ended up with a far right president in 2002,over here.

  12. #102
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    "Hey guys! I'm gonna piss my jeans!"
    "Oh.. really? Why?"
    "Cus I hate the pockets, frankly I could hold most of this stuff in my hands anyway."
    "Oh.. okay, I guess, but what about the urine all over you?"
    "Ah screw it" *Pisses jeans*
    ".."
    "Guys my legs are sticky and this is uncomfortable, also I forgot to take my phone out of my pocket and now there is piss on it"

  13. #103
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    It's descending into farce now. The Labour party are eating themselves alive, the Labour deputy leader has gone missing on the way back from Glastonbury, George Osborne has gone missing, the petition for a 2nd EU referendum has reached 3 million ..

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss k bee View Post
    the petition for a 2nd EU referendum has reached 3 million ..
    Problem is, even IF that decision was cancelled, UK has lost most of its leverage, and the EU can't afford to make you look good. They have all the reasons to use UK as an example of why leaving is a terrible decision, there's just too much at stake, too many countries waiting to see what happens to inform their own decision...
    If you guys eventually decide to stay, EU will try its best to chain you to the plumbing for good.


    Edit : ironically, politicians here are asking to cancel the agreement of Calais, effectively restoring "proper" frontiers between France and Britain, which means that a campaign based on the fear of immigrants will result in a huge wave of immigrants.
    Last edited by Khrz; 06-26-2016 at 11:49 AM.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss k bee View Post
    the petition for a 2nd EU referendum has reached 3 million ..
    That's not surprising.. Many people from the losing side will want to add their names to the petition, along with some people from the winning side who are now having second thoughts.

    Maybe the system should be changed. Any major vote should be held three times. Whatever side of the vote wins 2 out of 3 times will be held to.
    Last edited by cashpiles (closed); 06-26-2016 at 12:18 PM.

  16. #106
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    My view on referendums in general. Every 4 years during the "big" elections, I responsibly choose and go vote. Then I expect them (parties, politicians, whatever) to leave me alone, do their work professionally, and do not waste my money on referendums. They already have our mandate, or don't they...?

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  18. #108
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    The way things are going there won't be any MPs in Parliament to even discuss it, no matter how many signatures are there. It's seriously disturbing how there is no leadership after such a momentous result

  19. #109
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  21. #111
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    I swear, in my fucking life, I have never felt so proud to be Scottish, yet so horrified to be British.

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    Well some people apparently are now claiming they only wanted it to be a protest vote, but on the other hand there's no statistics about that, so there's no way to tell if it's any significant... But thanks for fucking up the democratic process just because you wanted to piss your pants in a temper tantrum. That's how we almost ended up with a far right president in 2002,over here.
    And that is the key. SO may of the liberals attached to this issue are trying to frame the entire vote of SEVEN MILLION as simply racism, old people, and regretful protest voters. The way i am seeing liberals continually "other-ize" people in such cartoonish narratives is sad. You'll never understand why people are voting this way and it means this type of problem is only going to continue to grow. So thank you for being a very small portion of people who seem interested in questioning that narrative.


    It's interesting to see that this divide is happening globally though. The US is about to have a similar dilemma soon.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    And that is the key. SO may of the liberals attached to this issue are trying to frame the entire vote of SEVEN MILLION as simply racism, old people, and regretful protest voters. The way i am seeing liberals continually "other-ize" people in such cartoonish narratives is sad. You'll never understand why people are voting this way and it means this type of problem is only going to continue to grow. So thank you for being a very small portion of people who seem interested in questioning that narrative.


    It's interesting to see that this divide is happening globally though. The US is about to have a similar dilemma soon.

    It was seventeen million. Specifically: 17,410,742. Which is evidence enough that you don't really know what you're talking about. Trust the perspective of someone who spent the first 30 years of their life in an increasingly intolerant, dangerous UK. This is seventeen million votes cast from the perspective of racism, old people, and sad, ill-informed, regretful protest. That's not a liberal filter, it's just Occam's razor, and the UK knows it. Hence why anyone there who isn't an intolerable cunt-bag is absolutely horrified right now.

    You're questioning the wrong thing- you should be wondering why there are so many intolerable cunt-bags in the UK in the first place. Geographically distributed in Middle England especially. These traits don't just spring up overnight.

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    The way things are going there won't be any MPs in Parliament to even discuss it, no matter how many signatures are there. It's seriously disturbing how there is no leadership after such a momentous result
    Doesn't matter anyway, can't happen because this would require retroactive legislation and the UK won't invent new laws just because some petitioners didn't like an outcome.

    This is interesting speculation, albeit a little simplistic: Boris Johnson's reaction to his win may be subdued, because he just realized how fucked he is.
    Last edited by DF118; 06-27-2016 at 01:42 AM.

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    And that is the key. SO may of the liberals attached to this issue are trying to frame the entire vote of SEVEN MILLION as simply racism, old people, and regretful protest voters. The way i am seeing liberals continually "other-ize" people in such cartoonish narratives is sad. You'll never understand why people are voting this way and it means this type of problem is only going to continue to grow. So thank you for being a very small portion of people who seem interested in questioning that narrative.


    It's interesting to see that this divide is happening globally though. The US is about to have a similar dilemma soon.
    I come from the same background as people who voted leave, white working class, but I left my roots and went to work in London. Part of the problem is that wealth seems locked up in the metropolitan regions and doesn't spread out to the rest of the country and they feel alienated and left behind. People seem to want to turn the clock back on globalisation also but they still want their smartphone and cheap consumer goods, you can't have both.

    The old people narrative pissed me off too because even if a high proportion of young voted remain, a high proportion of them didn't bother to vote either
    Last edited by WorzelG; 06-27-2016 at 02:26 AM.

  26. #116
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    Ok 17mil. That just makes it more insane to try and explain all those people away with such simple and all-inclusive statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    I come from the same background as people who voted leave, white working class, but I left my roots and went to work in London. Part of the problem is that wealth seems locked up in the metropolitan regions and doesn't spread out to the rest of the country and they feel alienated and left behind. People seem to want to turn the clock back on globalisation also but they still want their smartphone and cheap consumer goods, you can't have both.

    The old people narrative pissed me off too because even if a high proportion of young voted remain, a high proportion of them didn't bother to vote either
    Yup! I recall seeing a huge correlation between wealth (or income?) and the voting pattern. Those with more money voted for remain. There are some fundamental societal issues that tie into this whole thing and it needs to be addressed or you will see more of this.

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Ok 17mil. That just makes it more insane to try and explain all those people away with such simple and all-inclusive statements.



    Yup! I recall seeing a huge correlation between wealth (or income?) and the voting pattern. Those with more money voted for remain. There are some fundamental societal issues that tie into this whole thing and it needs to be addressed or you will see more of this.
    Except that a lot of those places (Wales particularly where I live) got a lot of money from the EU for regeneration schemes whatever so they've shot themselves in the foot. The remain campaign should have pointed this out of course but it failed completely against the awful racist rhetoric of the leave campaign.

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The way i am seeing liberals continually "other-ize" people in such cartoonish narratives is sad.
    Except that the campaign's point was largely xenophobe, and since there are apparently displays of triumphant racism right now, acknowledging that a large part of the Leave vote was xenophobia-driven is only a fair assumption. Statistics also show that the youth vote was tipping heavily towards the Remain, and that curve reverses past a certain age threshold. And a lot of people voted to protest, which is expected, no matter the issue, except this time this is a definitive decision, there's no amending, there's no going back, which makes this kind of senseless democracy a wee bit more enraging.

    Your point is sound, but unfair. Both sides act this way, all the time. Your wording make it seem like it's exclusively a liberal thing to paint the other side with the broadest strokes, like the conservatives never do that when they don't have their ways. Sounds biased to me.

    If these are the Leave voters denounced by the Remain voters, it's because those are the problem with UK politics right now, the people who wouldn't trust no experts because it was too complicated and intellectuals can't be trusted. Nobody has any grief with those who made an informed decision, who knew what they voted for and why. Despite having an opposite point of view, that point is respectable and informed. No, the problem is with those who voted to kick out anyone who wasn't British enough, those who voted for some Downtown Abbey image of England that never was, those who just wanted to stir shit up and didn't realize that was no time for it.

    And again, racism has its roots, angry nostalgia has its reasons, disillusion with politics and the wish to kick the house of cards are rooted in a deep, day to day discontent. Sure. But if, say, Trump was elected, it would be hard to actually do a proper post-mortem on that and "make sure it won't happen again". It's happened, it's done. And from my experience, people who vote that way don't have many complex layers to their thinking. They're unhappy with the way things are, and their reasoning is that it all began when things became less French, or less American, or less British. There's no solution to that, even compromise is met with defiance and frustration.

  29. #119
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    Yep, from a sociological point of view it's fascinating (and terrifying) to see people embrace a nihilistic interpretation of the world. But you can see where it's all rooted.

  30. #120
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    Meanwhile, nations that might genuinely describe themselves as ‘shackled’, have suffered such serious threats to their democracy as to have unelected Prime Ministers imposed upon them by the Troika, and have had their future forcibly removed thanks to the European Union, might look at Brexit and wonder.
    Except that, contrary to the relatively thriving and free United Kingdom, the aforementioned countries have even more to lose. The mere cost of switching back your currency could drive those countries into the ground.
    They may wonder, they will, they'll even seriously entertain the thought. And I actually wish that they'll try to strong arm the EU, force it to re-evaluate its mechanisms. But UK was actually one of the only countries, beside Germany or Netherlands for instance, who can actually afford to leave I think.

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