The Relationship Thread

[allegro]

I'm leaving for Europe next week. Maybe several weeks away will help him to verbalize what would make him happy with this relationship. As great as we have managed this long distance thing for several years, I'm ready to change it and move. He's afraid if I do move and then we break up, he'll feel responsible for ruining my life.. Hurts my head. I'm not a child.

LOL, why would it "ruin your life?" Had I not moved here for a (long-gone) guy, I wouldn't have my (completely different) career or my 2nd husband.

To quote Miles in Risky Business: Sometimes ya gotta say "what the fuck" and make your move.

[theimage13]

That's what I get for doing online dating.

Here is my two cents on online dating from a girl's standpoint:
POF was basically the Casual Encounters section on Craigslist. I'd say 99% of the guys just wanted sex. No thank you.
Match was a buzzkill for me because I met one guy off of there. We had a thing for a few months but dropped me because I'd figure I wasn't a skinny white girl. He couldn't figure that out from the moment we met?
OKC: Ok mix of guys. I met one guy off of there but don't know what happened. We just stopped communicating after our third date. Bummer cuz the sex was great.
Zoosk: I'm on it now and 300+ guys are pleasuring themselves in my image. From those 300+ guys, I've communicated with a very small handful (try less than 10). I've only been on two dates thus far and I'm ambivalent of the whole thing.

My therapist tells me that there is no shame in admitting about doing the whole online dating thing. I'm embarrassed that I'm doing it and I am embarrassed even more that this is my fourth attempt since I divorced my ex husband (three times since December). I'm not the problem. I just haven't found the one I need in my life yet.

That sounds like what I would expect. How I've viewed it as a guy:

POF: no guidance at all in making a profile just a box for an open essay and a box for keywords. No one knew what to write or how to get your attention. The result: everyone single person likes "reading" and "music" and otherwise says nothing about themselves.
Match: the people here seemed like they were actually sane, and I liked what you could learn about a person. But you had NO IDEA if the other member was actually paying or not. So when 20 messages go without answers...are you just being rejected without being given the slightest chance, or could it just be that none of those people could actually read what you wrote, since they weren't paying?
OKC: "OMG I can't believe I'm on a dating site blaaaaaaah" seems to be the recurring theme of 75% of women on there. Frowns, bathroom selfies, and selfies in their cars. I've interacted with a small number of people who seem extremely nice and who I'd really, really like to actually meet - but those women are so few and far between that, compared to the overwhelming number of guys v gals on the site, even hearing back from them is rare, let alone getting a date. I've had a number of very promising conversations - long, thoughtful, well written messages back and forth - end without warning and noticing the profile disappearing. The women I have become friends with from that site have all had the same complaint: there is a staggeringly large number of creepy pervert dudes on that site. On behalf of all men who don't think "hey babe ur hot i wana lik u wit my tounge" is an acceptable message, I'm sorry. (Yes, that's an actual screen shot sent to me from a female friend.)
Zoosk: don't actually know what that is.

Your therapist is right: there's absolutely no shame in online dating. Why should there be? You meet someone at a bar, you approach them for pretty much one reason alone: you're attracted to them. That's the only thing you know about them without actually having a conversation. You don't even know if they're single! What could possibly be shameful about getting an idea of who someone is first, knowing that they're interested in dating, and saving yourself the trouble of talking to someone for hours, days, weeks, or months, before suddenly realizing something huge like "oh...you don't want kids? I want kids."

[theimage13]

and almost fell over because we were on a slight hill, she said "Hmmm, you falling for me a bit, then?"

Ring. Now.

Who are these guys who just want to wham bam thank you mam and then leave?
I know "most guys" are supposed to be like this...I just don't get why so many men are this way.

Short answer: science.

Long answer...still pretty much science. I think it's a testosterone thing or something. Could also be frustration...since women seem to be the ones holding the cards when it comes to sex (as in, it strikes me as a lot easier for a woman to find a sexual partner than it is for a man), many men go longer and as a result have more pent up frustration that they just want to fulfill? (That's all pure speculation and guessing. Personally, I reallllllllly want sex but have absolutely no interest in sticking it in a woman I'm not madly in love with.)

[Dra508]

LOL, why would it "ruin your life?" Had I not moved here for a (long-gone) guy, I wouldn't have my (completely different) career or my 2nd husband.

To quote Miles in Risky Business: Sometimes ya gotta say "what the fuck" and make your move.

He hides behind Catholic guilt. I call him out for it. We have to keep talking, but I'm at a crossroad, a good time to make the move. Otherwise, I grow my roots here or somewhere else. The only reason I would move where he is is because he's there. If I stay here, I'm not interested in continuing a long distance relationship. I've done it, It was great worked for where we were both at, but I'm ready to move forward.

[Charmingly Miserable]

bathroom selfies

Um, that's me right there. I totally know what kind of weight is carried when one posts those kinds of pictures. So you know what my caption for it is? "Obligatory bathroom selfie." (I look really good in that pic though.)

I wonder if I posted more pix of me looking less dolled up if I would get less guys checking my profile out.

Your therapist is right: there's absolutely no shame in online dating. Why should there be? You meet someone at a bar, you approach them for pretty much one reason alone: you're attracted to them. That's the only thing you know about them without actually having a conversation. You don't even know if they're single! What could possibly be shameful about getting an idea of who someone is first, knowing that they're interested in dating, and saving yourself the trouble of talking to someone for hours, days, weeks, or months, before suddenly realizing something huge like "oh...you don't want kids? I want kids."

I have never thought of that and you have a good point. I suppose it's no different than conversing/texting with someone from here (you shall remain anonymous!) or another forum, etc.

[Sarah K]

Whenever I chat with someone who seems decent for a while, and we start discussing actually meeting up, they disappear.

I always attract the married guys on vanilla sites. :/

[AgentofChaos]

I'm ready to move forward.

Sounds like you answered your own question. It's been a couple years, apparently? You shouldn't have to convince him of anything. This guy served his purpose, time to cut him loose gracefully and continue your journey of self discovery down a different path.

Edit: I'd also do it before you leave for Europe, so as to enjoy that trip to its maximum potential.

[theimage13]

I have never thought of that and you have a good point. I suppose it's no different than conversing/texting with someone from here (you shall remain anonymous!) or another forum, etc.

Yeah, I never understood the negative stigma of online dating. The biggest realistic complaint that I can get behind is "it's full of creeps".

Well, spoiler alert: so is the rest of the world. Only online, it's slightly easier to sort the dbags from the the half decent people. Sometimes. But think about it...you use the internet to stay connected to the friends you already have. You use it to research things for school or work. You use it to find the news. You use it just for shits and giggles. You use the internet for everything else because it's useful beyond words. Why not use it to connect with someone new?

[jessamineny]

He hides behind Catholic guilt. I call him out for it. We have to keep talking, but I'm at a crossroad, a good time to make the move. Otherwise, I grow my roots here or somewhere else. The only reason I would move where he is is because he's there. If I stay here, I'm not interested in continuing a long distance relationship. I've done it, It was great worked for where we were both at, but I'm ready to move forward.

I hate to say it, but that whole "I'm afraid I'll ruin your life if you move here and we break up" sounds like him trying to spin the situation, when he really just doesn't want you to move there -- for whatever reason. "Guy speak." : /

[allegro]

I hate to say it, but that whole "I'm afraid I'll ruin your life if you move here and we break up" sounds like him trying to spin the situation, when he really just doesn't want you to move there -- for whatever reason. "Guy speak." : /

I was gonna say that too!!!

[Dra508]

I hate to say it, but that whole "I'm afraid I'll ruin your life if you move here and we break up" sounds like him trying to spin the situation, when he really just doesn't want you to move there -- for whatever reason. "Guy speak." : /

I agree. However, I'm know, being half dudish myself that I may not be putting out enough of a vibe. More direct conversation to follow. Sometimes we mismatch each other.

Given that we don't see each other but every second or third week, I'm hoping time away with limited contact will be good. We just spent 4 days in Miami together which was a great time. Yeah, I could post in the fucking thread, but then ya'll be jealous

[theimage13]

I hate to say it, but that whole "I'm afraid I'll ruin your life if you move here and we break up" sounds like him trying to spin the situation, when he really just doesn't want you to move there -- for whatever reason. "Guy speak." : /

From a guy's perspective, I respectfully disagree. I mean, it definitely is possible. Some of us do some really stupid shit like that. But some of us are also raised to feel as though we need to take responsibility for pretty much everything, and that results in guys who feel like things that aren't actually their problem are...well...their problem. The Catholic Guilt theory that was thrown out earlier sounded pretty plausible. Maybe he's scared that if things do indeed go south, he'll feel unbelievably bad about it and, being a decent person, would feel awful that it could potentially make someone else hurt too. Misguided? Maybe a bit. But I don't really get the impression that he's trying to maliciously spin things. Then again, I haven't been dating him for years, so I don't know how his head works.

[allegro]

I dunno, this kinda sounds like the line from a married guy hiding a wife LOL. But, as Dra said, Dra may be like the chick who only dates married guys right now ... never really has to commit ... to the guy who conveniently lives thousands of miles away ... This sounds like neither is feeling like they really really like each other enough. But the sex and the company is good.

[Dra508]

Thanks guys. I do appreciate the perspectives. Sometimes, if you just have it bouncing around in your own mind you develop poor eyesight and insight to what's there and what is best. I'll let y'all know how it works out.

VVV @aggroculture . Good observation. This would be his MO. Neither of us are great at emoting- having both been the caretaker in previous relationships, putting it out there has not come naturally for either of us and has actually made ours a relationship we both appreciate working at.

[aggroculture]

It could be something he's saying to fish for more of a verbal commitment from you, an insecurity thing: for you to answer "this WILL work." But yeah talking it out openly should give you more clarity. If you are feeling it, take the plunge and move. It's the only way you're going to know, I guess. And yeah, LD only works so far as there's a plan that both partners agree on, at least in my experience.

My wife and daughter are back in Europe. But even over skype I am the recipient of a litany of negativity. Oy vey. Somebody clear the air.

[Halo Infinity]

I suppose I still don't know exactly what I want. I used to think that I did, though. I guess only time will tell if I change my mind again. Even if I had some ideas, urges, and fantasies outside of monogamy, a serious relationship, and/or marriage, I'm still open to any/all of those things, should the opportunity arise. It's something I've always reconsidered time and time again, as I'd still like to try going for a serious relationship even if I might not get married.

@aggroculture - I'd still like to thank you for reminding me to be patient while working on my myself. It has helped me come to terms with being single, even though it still sometimes gets lonely. Being productive, or being busy with something else, or even something I love to do in terms of leisure and play is also still a great help from time to time.

@Charmingly Miserable - I thought I'd like to let you see this as well. I hope you understand. I had a hard time getting the words out for this post in this thread, but I finally did it.

[Sarah K]

So, I've been chatting with this guy for over a month, I would say. He's on OKC and fet... I knew this shit was coming. Here is the text that I got this morning:

"I've been thinking about this and I think we shouldn't get together. I'm extremely busy with work and with a couple of women I'm currently seeing, and I feel bad delaying and putting off meeting you because of my schedule. Also, I don't think our sexual interests are that compatible. The stuff you are into turns me on, but ultimately I like to play around with d/s -- it's not the central focus of my relationships. And I'm not a sadist. I think you're very pretty, sexy, and interesting to chat with, which is why I keep contacting you. I'm sorry if you feel like I led you on or misrepresented myself. You seem really cool and I know you'll find one or more cool guys to hang out with"

Like... WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK?!

This was the first guy I was agreeing to meet up with since December, because I just got fucking burnt out on some weird shit, and had some negative experiences.

I don't understand why you would go on speaking with someone for so long if you didn't feel there was compatibility. Also, it's not as if I am some hardcore 24/7 M/s person or anything. So I'm not really understanding where that came from.

I'm thankful that he ended it before we met, but I don't understand carrying it on for that long. I'd be willing to bet that he's married, or at least attached, and was just perving around for fun.

I will never understand men, and they make me want to choke myself.

[jessamineny]

Translation: I fantasize about "bedroom BDSM" and would probably spank a girl a little and pull her hair and shit. Really, I was just looking for easy chicks to bang on Fetlife. You're too real and/or take too much investment. Also, I'm married and bored. (And I'm not seeing anybody else, unless you count spanking it over Skype.)

[Sarah K]

50 Shades of Grey has fucking ruined EVERYTHING.

And yes, that's basically exactly what I see... Except usually those dudes only stick around for a few days. Once they realize that you're not going to sext/Skype/etc before you have even met, they take off. So this one is a little bit confusing for me.

[cahernandez]

Um, that's me right there. I totally know what kind of weight is carried when one posts those kinds of pictures. So you know what my caption for it is? "Obligatory bathroom selfie." (I look really good in that pic though.)

I wonder if I posted more pix of me looking less dolled up if I would get less guys checking my profile out.

I have never thought of that and you have a good point. I suppose it's no different than conversing/texting with someone from here (you shall remain anonymous!) or another forum, etc.

re: shame in online dating, you should read this article from Wait But Why (I'm sure some ETSers know about this blog) http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner.html

The post partially talks about this, and the guy makes a good point about it. With that being said, I tried it for about a month and I thought it was terrible, I was spending too much time in it, reading profiles, writing elaborate messages, preparing my own profile, and barely getting any responses (this was OKC). Huge time sink for me, and like JessicaSarah I also have a life and would rather spend my time in the things that I'm into (hiking, soccer, riding my bike, reading, cooking) than wasting more time in a computer (I have a 9-5 desk job). I don't know if you guys have seen the movie 'Her' but I interpreted it as a critique to online dating/the way social media has changed our relationships. I may sound like an old jaded guy here (and I'm only 29) but I think that online dating/FB/Twitter have left us worse off as a society (i.e. their negatives outweigh their benefits) (for the record I do use FB, and I think it's great as a way to keep in touch with friends through the messages, I hardly communicate with my friends by email anymore, the FB messages are a good substitute).

[halloween]

I've noticed a strange phenomenon recently. I've been resisting putting into words because I feel that once I "think I understand something" I'm a bit afraid of having a weird placebo effect where I'll then look for that behaviour in the future. That said....I noticed that I have a stronger relationship prone attraction with guys, but when I'm with them- my attraction for girls go up, but only in a hook-up type way. If I'm single, I'm usually more attracted to guys. I've never had such a strong attraction to a girl that I've wanted to date them, it's just been these small moments of attraction, usually to girls that are already my friend so it's not just a superficial visual attraction. All my boyfriends (except that one in highscool, but that was a different) have been fine with the open status, but I never have the guts to do anything because I still feel guilty. Maybe my perfect relationship is with a primary male partner and female playmate, to borrow some of those fancy schmancy terms.

[Sarah K]

Update:





I quit.

[jessamineny]

That whole "you are big" thing... He's just trying to be an asshole and hurt you because you called him a douche.

Which makes him REALLY a douche.

[Sarah K]

I don't get offended at people calling me fat or big or anything. I am what I am. But the whole "you should be happy to put out since you're fat" mindset is really weird and annoying to me.

[playwithfire]

Update:

Jesus fucking christ.

[allegro]

I don't get offended at people calling me fat or big or anything. I am what I am. But the whole "you should be happy to put out since you're fat" mindset is really weird and annoying to me.

There seems to be a pretty common belief out there among men that the women with THE highest sex drives are heavy women, perhaps because it's a link to hedonism; love food, love life, love sex?


edit: can you put something in your profile that says "I'm not here for the sex?" Or is that a man repellant?

[jessamineny]

I don't get offended at people calling me fat or big or anything. I am what I am. But the whole "you should be happy to put out since you're fat" mindset is really weird and annoying to me.

Oh, I know you don't at all. I'm just telling you what I'm certain was going through his head.

[Sarah K]

I mean, my sex drive is pretty stupid. I'm very sexually driven. BUT, I am also very particular about my partners. Even when I'm single, I generally stick with one partner at a time just because I'm picky and cautious.

I dunno where this fat girls = easy stuff came from.

Brb, starving myself.

[allegro]

I dunno where this fat girls = easy stuff came from.

I don't know that I've ever heard "heavy girls = easy," this was more like "heavy = better in bed." I watch that show, "My 600-pound Life" on TLC, and one of the women, Zsalynn, explained how she was really popular on some of these dating sights because there is a whole group of men who only date heavier women, and she was really really popular, she was gorgeous. But when she started losing weight, her husband was a total dickhead and not supportive at all, even though she had gained so much she could die. She said that at some point, she traded sex for, like, doughnuts. She described eating a doughnut as being like sex. Seriously. And then she gained way too much weight and it got bad. By the end, she'd lost a lot of weight, though, and was trying to dump her loser husband. If I was married to this dickhead, I'd trade sex for doughnuts, too.

[Sarah K]

Yeah... I have tons of photos posted... you can see my gradual weight loss. I get lots of comments/messages that are like DONT LOSE YOUR ASS/TITS/BELLY. You basically become a fetish. There are tons of guys into it. That's for sure. But they all just think that you wanna fuck because you're fat. I mean, if I just want random penis inside of me, why wouldn't I just go outside? I wouldn't go through the trouble lf creating profiles for dick.