Mark Kozelek (+ Red House Painters, Sun Kil Moon, collaborations)

[october_midnight]

Even the most locked-in of nuthangers has to be blown away with the amount of apologists this shitstain has though.

[Mantra]

It's a pretty hypocritical move given that pitchfork are one of the primary publications that have given him a platform for all his rants and feuds and shit. They've been posting articles about him for a while now that have made it pretty clear they're enjoying the spectacle. Like here they wrote "Now this is something we would very, very much like to see" about his war on drugs song. There's tons of shit like that in their coverage of him, but now they're going to "call him out," as if they aren't part of the problem?

It's not the first time this shit has happened. I couldn't fucking believe that thing a couple years back when they had a video of Chief Keef at a fucking gun range, something that they totally arranged and set up, and then that video ended being used to prove that Keef was in violation of his parole. So they literally got a dude thrown in prison so they could have a provocative video to help them sell ad space. And then to top it all off, they had the nerve to post some half-assed thinkpiece a few months later about the problematic relationship between gangsta rap, real life gun violence, and white hipster audiences, as if they were an innocent third party who somehow existed outside of that "problematic relationship."

It's that flip-flop move that's so shitty and lacking in any integrity at all. They've contributed to the Kozelek spectacle as much or more than anyone, so who the fuck are they to act like they're in a position to be moralizing about this.

[Frozen Beach]

This entire situation is making me wonder how hated GG Allin would be if he was still alive.

[ZeroSum]

Honestly though, does anyone get sexist or slimy vibes from any of his music, like at all? Just curious. I certainly don't. He just seems severely depressed in most of it.

[Mantra]

Honestly though, does anyone get sexist or slimy vibes from any of his music, like at all? Just curious. I certainly don't. He just seems severely depressed in most of it.

No not at all, nor do I get wife-beating vibes from Miles Davis' music, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen or that there's anything wrong with criticizing that person's shitty behavior.

I'm not at all one of these people who thinks you need to stop listening to an artist just because they do something wrong, especially when that person's shittiness does not appear to be at all present within the realm of their art. In fact I usually don't even care if it does show up in their actual music (i.e: gangsta rap, which I generally love).

A lot of people seem to have this all-or-nothing mentality, where you either have to condemn someone entirely or act as if they can do no wrong and should be totally immune to criticism. I find Mark's music incredibly moving AND I simultaneously think it's horrible to hear how he talked about that woman onstage. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, so I don't know why both diehard Mark fans and Pitchfork seem to think they need to "take a side" or something.

[ZeroSum]

No not at all, nor do I get wife-beating vibes from Miles Davis' music, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen or that there's anything wrong with criticizing that person's shitty behavior.

I'm not at all one of these people who thinks you need to stop listening to an artist just because they do something wrong, especially when that person's shittiness does not appear to be at all present within the realm of their art. In fact I usually don't even care if it does show up in their actual music (i.e: gangsta rap, which I generally love).

A lot of people seem to have this all-or-nothing mentality, where you either have to condemn someone entirely or act as if they can do no wrong and should be totally immune to criticism. I find Mark's music incredibly moving AND I simultaneously think it's horrible to hear how he talked about that woman onstage. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, so I don't know why both diehard Mark fans and Pitchfork seem to think they need to "take a side" or something.

Great points. Probably the most reasonable thing I have read during this whole thing.

I feel obligated to defend Mark, because I have identified with his music so much over the years. But in the end it doesn't really matter: it is a person's art, and not a person I am truly identifying with.

[thefragile_jake]

Even the most locked-in of nuthangers has to be blown away with the amount of apologists this shitstain has though.

Eh, I don't know. All of this comes across as more of Mark feels more like the uncle you have who has this extremely awkward, dry and sometimes off-kilter sense of humor that can be off putting to a lot of people but you know he's not really a terrible guy. Something I noticed that bugged me was Laura's Twitter reaction to her article like a "HAHA! GOT HIM NOW!" over what I thought was a thinnly written piece over her character piece on Mark and the things he's been doing for years now. At least Laura had a better written piece than Meredith Graves, that article was a joke.

Again, I get the controversy though. If you're the kind of person to get outraged by this, you have every reason to be because that's how YOU feel. Me on the other hand, I think "Universal Themes" is quickly becoming my favorite record of 2015 with every listen....I know for a fact that there's probably going to be nothing I hear that ends on as much of an impactful way for me as the closing track of UT does.

[telee.kom]

I'm a fan of this guy. I think in this day and age we need more people who won't conform to this overly sensitive PC crap environment. Go be a dick Mark, be a rockstar. I'm tired of people bowing down from 14 yeard old kids their only achievement is that they have twitter accout and sense of holier than thou superiority. I'm tired of journalism that just trying to stir controversy out of complete bullshit. This needs to end. We need more people to act like this guy

[blackholesun]

Listening to April right now. I love the new albums, but the old stuff needs some love too. This guy just writes amazing music.

[Rdm]

Sun Kil Moon has some new tour dates. I bought tickets to see him on Dec 13th in san fran. Not too sure what to expect because the new album isn't so good IMO

[blackholesun]

Sun Kil Moon has some new tour dates. I bought tickets to see him on Dec 13th in san fran. Not too sure what to expect because the new album isn't so good IMO

Nice, didn't realize there was an upcoming SF show. Sounds like it's going to be one of the shows with the band and Neil from Slowdive is going to be joining them!

Just looking at recent setlists, doesn't seem like he plays more than 2 or 3 off the new album.

I actually really like Universal Themes, but I'll be happy with whatever.

[blackholesun]

http://www.sunkilmoon.com/kozelekdillinger/

Not a bad track, but definitely weird to hear Kozlek over a Jesu song.

[thefragile_jake]

I'm on my 10th repeat listen. I'm so in love with this.

[paul_is_dead]

I love Mark's music. He's one of my favourite artists.

[thefragile_jake]

His show in St. Louis last fall was one of the best live music experiences in my 32 years of existence.

[paul_is_dead]

His show in St. Louis last fall was one of the best live music experiences in my 32 years of existence.

I had a ticket for a show in London before it was rescheduled from a Saturday to a random Tuesday in February. Damn.

I’m not a huge fan of the “full band” Sun Kil Moon. My favourite form of Sun Kil Moon is just Mark and a piano, followed by Mark solo acoustic. The Brisbane live release is stunning and I’ve been listening to that the last couple of days. My Love For You Is Undying, Mark Kozelek Museum, Spanish Hotels Are Echoey, Brisbane Love Song are amazing. I also really like the latest spoken word/tour diary album.

[paul_is_dead]

For fuck sake.

[Jinsai]

noooooooooooo..... NO NO NO NO. Goddamn it.

[HWB]

Well, fuck me, a lot of people have a really close connecton to Benji. This stuff always hurts.

[thefragile_jake]

Fuck.

I had to sit on this for about 24 hours before I posted anything. This really, really fucking hurts. Kozelek has meant a lot to me over the years in both his Red House Painters stuff (I cried like a baby the first time I heard "Have You Forgotten") and into his Sun Kil Moon material (I continue to cry like a baby every time I hear "Micheline"). Benji was my top album of the decade and continues to be my go to record any time I feel like I need to be emotional for awhile.

Especially this year, "I Can't Live Without My Mother's Love" was already heart wrenching the first time I heard it in 2014 and always was the dark cloud that hung above me in case the time came when I would lose my Mother. She passed in April. I remember playing the song for her around Christmas time 2018, a few months into her cancer diagnosis.

So all that being said, Mark's voice, lyrics and songwriting has touched me in a way that only probably rivals Trent Reznor's impact on my life. And I've backed him through a lot. Post-Benji, his songs became more lenghthy, more scatter brained and spoken word. I fucking loved it. Maybe it's because I'm always told how much of a photographic memory I have, but I found myself relating to the ramblings of a middle-aged man going about his day in a way that I hadn't experienced music before. Making memories out of the mundane seemed to be the MO for his newest material and I was all in. His first collaboration with Jesu I probably listened to almost every day in the spring of 2016 when I bought my house, so I can't pull into the driveway anymore without hearing that record in my head.

I also defended his often grumpy, combative nature and chalked it up to him just being a bit more gruff. He had a super dry sense of humor that I completely understand why people would scoff him up to being an asshole, but I always saw past it. In my opinion, I always saw his sweet side and ESPECIALLY when I saw him in St. Louis last year. A young heckler was saying stuff to him when Mark confronted him on stage in a joking way and it was revealed that the heckler was in town for a friend's funeral. Mark quickly asked what song he wanted to hear as Mark hugged him and he asked for "Carry Me Ohio", a Sun Kil Moon staple he never plays anymore. Mark asked if anyone had the song on hand to pull up so the band could quickly learn it and being in the front row, I immediately pulled my phone out and Mark leaned over and put the mic up to my phone for the band to learn from. It was a pinch me moment I'll never forget.

I don't how to feel. I'm angry, pissed off and hurt that someone whose words meant so much to me and in particular of a time of grieving ended up using and abusing people. Yeah, sure ... don't idolize people. Well, I fucking did and I guess I'm paying the price.

Fuck fuck fuck. This has now become my own Sun Kil Moon song because I'm ranting but jesus H. christ did I need to get this off my chest.

[paul_is_dead]

He's put out a statement:

It is important that I publicly and unconditionally deny that I engaged in the inappropriate and disturbing incidents falsely depicted in the media. While I support the important work of addressing legitimate claims of sexual misconduct, I reject the false allegations and innuendo in the recent press. I have retained the legal counsel of Lavely & Singer to investigate and to pursue as necessary any claims against anyone participating to defame me in the media. —Mark Kozelek

IMO I can't really see how he has much of a defamation case?

[october_midnight]

Seven more women come forward with accusations.

Fair warning, the article gives all seven stories in explicit detail.

edit: Oh yeah, forgot. Fuck this clown forever. Piece of shit.