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Alright, lets put the War on Drugs / douchey pitchfork article fiasco behind us. I am dripping with anticipation for the new album. I'm so excited i might leak my pants. You might say my level of excitement for this release is as subtle as a torrential downnpour.
Throbbing Member
Originally Posted by ZeroSum
I'm really excited about the new album too, but I have a hard time believing he can make another album as good as benji that fast. Hopefully I'm wrong
Stubby Member
You're wrong.
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Yeah, it's really good but really different. Much more aggressive and has a lot more going on in it.
Can't really compare it to Benji though since Benji is probably in my top 5 records of all time.
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Ooh, really excited to listen to this. Benji kinda came out of nowhere. I loved Admiral Fell Promises, but liked the collaboration with the Album Leaf and never enjoyed Among the Leaves. I almost forgot about this, I've been getting stoked on the collaboration album with Jesu (!!!).
Throbbing Member
listening to it and its pretty similar to Benji,not sure if its as good though. first listen
Active Member
Yeah, several listens later this is easily one of the year's best records.
Throbbing Member
Another riveting listen. I'm not sure that the lyricism / storytelling is as captivating as it is on Benji but the more diverse musical palette kept me engaged throughout.
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This is on par for Benji with me, which is to say I love it. I dig the new storytelling type of lyrics/singing, but the music is excellent as well.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
New album's pretty good, but I'll be damned if I ever give this guy a penny. As much as I love some of his stuff, it's too bad that he can't help but be a giant, fucking shitbag.
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I'm starting to think Mark purposely wants to be remembered as an asshole. There's no way he did that without knowing it'd become a lot of click bait articles. Not saying that one is click bait specifically, but there have been quite a few that were written by people that really didn't say anything worth adding to the situation. Mark will never be a big of an asshole as Mark E Smith though. If Mark E Smith did any of the things he once did nowadays, he'd probably end up being murdered.
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I really wonder what's going through his head when he thinks some of this stuff is funny. This last "stunt" is just cruel and unusual and totally unwarranted. I love his music, and even the version of himself that he portrays of himself in his songs seems like a nice enough guy. He makes it really hard to cut through that and just enjoy his discography. Wonder what the fallout from this will be.
Sidenote: The texting ringtones in Cry me a River Williamsburg Sleeve Tattoo Blues are hilarious.
Throbbing Member
That's... kind of terrifying. Cringeworthy juvenile antics are one thing, but this is creepy as hell.
Can't remember the last time I was so conflicted about my enjoyment of a musician's work.
Throbbing Member
I'm not sure what is going on with this shit, maybe he has mental illness, which is no excuse, but maybe he is just trolling us to get some attention on his new music. Either way I don't care because all I care about his his music, which Is really great latley so whatever. I love the new story telling stuff he has been doing.
He could kill babies and make albums like benji and I would still love him
Last edited by Rdm; 06-06-2015 at 08:29 AM.
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This quote from the guardian article perfectly sums up what I hate about this dude's whole persona/gimmick:
"He impugns online “bitching and whining”, but hides behind one-way email exchanges, balks at the idea of his peers speaking about him and issues tirades (and sometimes, sexual advances) from the cowardly remove of the stage, with the get-out clause that it’s a performance. He can use sexually violent language to reduce female critics to the status of groupies, knowing that while male musicians’ misogynist acts are examined for nuance and defended as traits of “difficult” artists, women and those who call them out are treated as hysterics who don’t understand art."
Active Member
Pretty much this.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
Probably one of the dumbest things I've read on here. *shrugs*
tempus est umbra in mente
I think the analysis of his character and the way he's conducting himself (or the consideration that he may be trolling) is a separate consideration from the music. I generally don't pay attention to this sort of interpersonal drama when it comes to musicians I like, and I've found that a great deal of musicians I like are in many ways flagrant assholes when you put them under the microscope. It surely doesn't help that he's blasting this stuff out for all to criticize, but like I said I usually don't pay attention to this stuff. I just don't want to. With him, it's becoming difficult, and that's the part I'm finding most obnoxious.
I will say one thing though... a lot of the critics of his behavior have said some pretty spectacularly stupid stuff in an effort to tear his persona apart. For starters, I don't think it's entirely fair to call out off-the-cuff comments made during live performances as being "from the cowardly remove of the stage." Anyone who has actually performed live in front of an audience knows that's a really bizarre way to look at it. It's certainly a great deal easier to take the time to consider your points and then type up a hit piece for The Guardian.
RA-MEN ROPPAI
Jesu/Caldo Verde Records is the only reason Mark Kozelek gets my money.
I keep getting a mental image of Morrissey with 'roid rage and a dash of Charlie Sheen.
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You say 'Tomato', I say 'Tomato'
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I would usually agree with this, but I think this case is different. This is not a situation of some cowardly blogger anonymously trashing a public figure. Her piece is a response HIS comments, not the other way around. He is the one who started this shit with her. She was just doing her job, trying to set up an interview, and he goes up on stage and makes all those comments about her in front of all those people. Of course she's gonna respond after that. Given her position, I'm actually surprised at how nuanced and considerate her piece is. She doesn't outright condemn every part of him, just calls bullshit on the way he uses his gimmicky "provocative" antics to deflect any criticism of his shitty behavior.
I mean, there's pretty much no way to twist his comments into something that is even remotely defensible, nor to find fault with her for defending herself against his bullshit.
tempus est umbra in mente
I hear what you're saying, but of course she's going to approach the issue with restraint. That's how you come across looking like the more mature person, which is an easy thing to do when you're sitting down and calculating your words.
On one hand, I completely get his aversion to doing the traditional press junket for this music. Can you imagine how many stupid questions he might have to field? I wouldn't want to walk into an interview and wonder if I'm going to be asked if I ever did find out how Carrissa died, or if he thought Jim Wise really deserved to go to jail.
It may not be a defense for the way he's been acting, but there is the possibility that it's a coping mechanism to deal with something incredibly personal that he put out there for scrutiny. I can't imagine what it would be like to make something so naked and have to deal with performing it live, let alone talk about it in any real way. I'm sure he'd much rather bullshit his way through a discussion about whether or not he's using abusive language when he tells The War on Drugs to suck his cock than dig deeper into an album that was basically a collection of stream of consciousness journal entries revolving around incredibly personal material.
He's a moody guy, that much is obvious, and I'm sure on some levels he regrets starting these bratty shit storms. They are being given too much attention and focus though. It all seems like a dodge, and if that's the way he wants to go about it, maybe leave him alone and just let him make his music. Aside from all the scandal, the music is good and really the only part I care about.
Last edited by Jinsai; 06-09-2015 at 12:01 PM.
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All of that is totally understandable, and I don't think anyone would care if he just had a grouchy attitude or acted really distant or whatever. Lots of artists have that type of relationship with press/fans and it usually doesn't generate this level of controversy. But this recent shit is just a little too much. Most people aren't gonna feel sympathetic because his behavior doesn't come across as guarded or self-defensive, but more like mean-spirited bullying. I totally get why someone might flip out and attack some horrible tabloid stalker, but this wasn't like that at all.
Active Member
So Pitchfork got exposed for switching their review on "Universal Themes" based on everything that happened last week.
Granted, it's not like anyone is looking to Pitchfork for journalistic integrity and clearly they didn't want to champion someone with a possibly high reviewed score or BNM due to Kozelek's controversy last week....but this is just pretty low of them. Like Jet "monkey pee video" review low.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
What a dick move...
tempus est umbra in mente
"The end result of these developments are that it's becoming increasingly difficult to imagine Sun Kil Moon's music outside of how it, and he, are discussed on social media."
Oh my god... what a load of bullshit that is. It's not that hard to do, if you're a "professional music critic" and you just do your fucking job.
We don't even need to get started with the grammatical nightmare in there (even if it is telling), just do your fucking job. You're not TMZ, you're a music publication. Review the goddamn music.
R-Kelly video tapes himself pissing on kids, but he gets an un-ironic gold star and hipster-cred badge from Pitchfork (along with a headlining spot at their music festival)... but watch out if you say mean things about someone who writes for them. What miserable assholes.
Last edited by Jinsai; 06-10-2015 at 10:37 AM.
Throbbing Member
That's some great ethics......
Stubby Member
Yet another entry in a long list of awful, douchey pitchfork moves. I was wondering why their review was so late. What a bunch of cowards- that site really isn't about music when you get down to it.
I saw Mark live last January and it was one of the strangest concert experiences ever. One moment the music would literally be moving me to tears, and the next we were in the middle of a gross, sexist rant about how females can't collect vinyl or a (admittedly hilarious, in my opinion) tirade about the War on Drugs. I did enjoy the show, and I would see him again, but I left feeling like he was mentally ill- just awfully, awfully depressed. You could see it in his body language and mannerisms more than anything. He used it in a way to make jokes and have this on-stage persona, which were, in turns, as self deprecating as they were combative with the audience. The dude is a brilliant songwriter and I think Universal Themes and Benji both demonstrate a wonderfully inventive artistic vision. Benji took music to emotional territory that no other artist has been able to touch (imo) and Mark, who has always left himself raw and bare, had to take this even further to achieve it as an artist. Pretty much every song on Benji was overflowing with sentiment that could have been embarrassing in a certain light, but it became compelling when it was clear what open and honest emotion it was.
The thing about Benji, though, is that it was sad. Almost overwhelmingly so. It felt like this devastating intertwining of memory, love, sadness and loss all delivered alongside the subtle nuances of routine, every day experience. I had a hard time listening to it for the first couple months it was out. With Universal Themes, I get that same open and raw feeling. But as a whole, it's a record that makes me fucking happy. There are a lot of funny moments that come through to me, and the outro of the final song makes me feel very uplifted- the same type of feelings I get when I just had a really good day hanging out with a girlfriend or my buddies or something. Which is basically what that part of the song is about, too- for Mark to capture that feeling musically and artistically is a massive achievement in my mind. His ability to do this not only cements him as a wonderful songwriter, but also as a solid, real human, with real experiences and real flaws. And on stage, we see his flaws come out with those stupid comments he makes. Perhaps it is a consequence of leaving himself so raw. In the end, it's an odd concoction: an old, longtime artist blowing up "late" in his career over very personal music, in part of a musical world that doesn't really jive with his personality. The dude still has a flip phone, and everything about his persona screams not being made for social media. The equation leads to something that can be ugly at times, but does nothing to devalue him as an artist in my eyes, and it shouldn't.
Either way, fuck pitchfork for that review. Unprofessional and awful. If they wanted to have their opinions about his recent social media issues and on stage banter, edit the orignal review with a link to a new article about this shit or something. But to act like the whole thing never happened? Low. Very low. And then the language in their new review basically implies that Benji was a flare-up and the dude hasn't released good albums other than that one, which is absolutely not true, even by pitchforks own record. They just gave rave reviews to the RHP reissues, for fucks sake. Fuck Pitchfork.
Active Member
What shitty review. And this is coming from someone who defends Pitchfork more often than not around here. It comes across as uninformed and unprofessional.
"and he released a great many records that were happily received by his cult and mostly ignored otherwise." - Ouch. That is so dumb. Even Pitchfork has given his records high scores more often than not.
Oh well, album is still great.
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