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  1. #1681
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    Quote Originally Posted by icklekitty View Post
    glad to be a Kylie fan
    if you didn't quote the wrong post here, you've GOT to explain to me how these things are connected.

  2. #1682
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    if you didn't quote the wrong post here, you've GOT to explain to me how these things are connected.

    You’re worried about the people you like being revealed as sex offenders. Only one I gots to worry about is a tiny Australian.

  3. #1683
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Completely disagree.

    Here's the thing that most cis people seem to be missing here (at least as far as I've seen, because for some reason this has really ruffled the feathers of people outside of the trans community). Scarlett Johansson is a woman playing a man. Generally, in modern times, that's not something that's done. To use an example I saw that I think explains this perfectly, no one would be ok with Will Smith playing Wonder Woman. It would be absolutely ridiculous, right? Because Will Smith is a man and Wonder Woman is not and, more importantly, it would be a man taking a role from a woman, and there aren't very many huge Hollywood movies where women are the main character (I'm talking comic book movies and the like).

    These same people have absolutely no problem with Scarlett Johansson playing a trans man. Why? Because to them it's interchangeable. A trans man, in their eyes, is just a woman playing dress up. A trans woman is just a man playing dress up. Who cares if a woman is playing a man?

    THAT is the problem here. That's transphobic. And it's entirely inaccurate. And it perpetuates the idea that trans people aren't really the gender they say they are, that it's all just a big game of pretend. That is a HUGE issue that the trans community deals with literally on a daily basis. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen people try to invalidate trans people by saying we're just playing dress up. Yeah, you can call yourself a woman but you're not a REAL woman. When I hear cis people defending this, all I'm hearing is, yeah, we're kind of allies but not really. When it comes right down to it we don't understand your identity and we don't really think it's valid. And that's gross and wrong

    On top of that, she's taking a role away from an already marginalized community that is barely represented as it is. As some trans actors themselves have pointed out, it would be different if trans people were up for cis roles. But they're not. Trans people don't play cis people. Ever. Trans people play trans people. And that's in the rare instance where a cis person hasn't nabbed the role for themselves.
    The only thing I’d add is that the studio, producer(s) and casting agent(s) should receive the anger more than Scarlett. She could (and should) refuse the role but they’d probably just cast another well known face because well...Hollywood. Well crafted outrage toward the machine has a better chance of making a change than just going after an actor or actress.
    Last edited by Swykk; 07-09-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  4. #1684
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Completely disagree.

    Here's the thing that most cis people seem to be missing here (at least as far as I've seen, because for some reason this has really ruffled the feathers of people outside of the trans community). Scarlett Johansson is a woman playing a man. Generally, in modern times, that's not something that's done. To use an example I saw that I think explains this perfectly, no one would be ok with Will Smith playing Wonder Woman. It would be absolutely ridiculous, right? Because Will Smith is a man and Wonder Woman is not and, more importantly, it would be a man taking a role from a woman, and there aren't very many huge Hollywood movies where women are the main character (I'm talking comic book movies and the like).

    These same people have absolutely no problem with Scarlett Johansson playing a trans man. Why? Because to them it's interchangeable. A trans man, in their eyes, is just a woman playing dress up. A trans woman is just a man playing dress up. Who cares if a woman is playing a man?

    THAT is the problem here. That's transphobic. And it's entirely inaccurate. And it perpetuates the idea that trans people aren't really the gender they say they are, that it's all just a big game of pretend. That is a HUGE issue that the trans community deals with literally on a daily basis. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen people try to invalidate trans people by saying we're just playing dress up. Yeah, you can call yourself a woman but you're not a REAL woman. When I hear cis people defending this, all I'm hearing is, yeah, we're kind of allies but not really. When it comes right down to it we don't understand your identity and we don't really think it's valid. And that's gross and wrong

    On top of that, she's taking a role away from an already marginalized community that is barely represented as it is. As some trans actors themselves have pointed out, it would be different if trans people were up for cis roles. But they're not. Trans people don't play cis people. Ever. Trans people play trans people. And that's in the rare instance where a cis person hasn't nabbed the role for themselves.
    Every trans people were mistaken for the gender they are not for a certain period of their life. Ie. a transwoman who could finally dared/could/afford/etc to forego with changing her looks, life and papers, was once a bearded "dude" whom people might've laughed for saying that she is a she. That's why I believe that the role of a trans person is just as interchangeable as the role of a non-heterosexual one. Will Smith and Wonder Woman look nothing alike, but just by looking at someone, you can't perceive whether they are trans, nor are you aware of their sexuality. And this is a big thing.

    I understand your justified issues with how the world downplays the whole trans movement, but it does no good if we are searching for an enemy at every corner. Assume Scarlett could play an amazing transgendered role in this movie and it would bring some more global understanding and maybe even acceptance from the general public. Would she or the directors be still criticized? I think it's great that movies with A-list actors are coming out which tackle the topic of transgenders.

    The same rule applies backwards of course, trans people should be playing cis roles as well, because separation have never helped anyone. I wouldn't mind trans people playing cis roles in big movies, as long as they do a good job - but that's just true for every single actor and actress in every single movie.

  5. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    Every trans people were mistaken for the gender they are not for a certain period of their life. Ie. a transwoman who could finally dared/could/afford/etc to forego with changing her looks, life and papers, was once a bearded "dude" whom people might've laughed for saying that she is a she.
    And?

    That's why I believe that the role of a trans person is just as interchangeable as the role of a non-heterosexual one. Will Smith and Wonder Woman look nothing alike, but just by looking at someone, you can't perceive whether they are trans, nor are you aware of their sexuality.
    First of all, sexuality and gender identity are completely different things. Second of all, nothing you said invalidates my argument. Women shouldn't be playing the role of trans men because, again, they're not men. What you're doing is perpetuating this idea that trans people aren't who they say they are, because apparently women can play trans men and men can play trans women and what does it matter because it's basically the same. It's not the same. At all.


    I understand your justified issues with how the world downplays the whole trans movement, but it does no good if we are searching for an enemy at every corner.
    Calling out a very real and pretty serious problem is not "looking for an enemy on every corner."

    Assume Scarlett could play an amazing transgendered role in this movie and it would bring some more global understanding and maybe even acceptance from the general public. Would she or the directors be still criticized? I think it's great that movies with A-list actors are coming out which tackle the topic of transgenders.
    Again, she is a woman, she is not a man. A woman ≠ a trans man. Continuing to argue that they do, or that they may not technically be the same thing but it's ok if we just all act like they are, is part of the problem.

    Also, transgenders isn't a word. Transgender is an adjective. So you would say, transgender man or transgender woman, but not transgenders.

  6. #1686
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    Hi, trans man here, there is 0 reason to cast a woman to play a man in this instance. Ruiner has done a wonderful job explaining why this is a problem and why people are mad about the decision, and if you can't understand after reading those messages, my far less calm tone isn't going to help.
    Should we be mad at the higher-ups who made this decision? Yes. And we are. We aren't blaming Scarlett for the casting decision. We're blaming her for taking the role. And if she didn't, and some other woman was cast, we would be blaming her instead.

    The character is a man. Do not cast a woman to play the part. Hard stop.

  7. #1687
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    Quote Originally Posted by icklekitty View Post
    glad to be a Kylie fan
    Oh THAT Kylie. I got you.

  8. #1688
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    Let me say first that Scarlet Johansson has done some other things that have rubbed me the wrong way. She still wears clothes designed by Harvey Weinstein 's wife. She publicly defends Woody Allen. And her response to this controversy wasn't very fucking endearing. So I think she knows EXACTLY what she's doing and doesn't care. At first I thought the backlash was a bit much, but upon looking into it, it is deserved.

    Ok here is my question: would it be better if a cis man played the role? I know it wouldn't be as good as an actual transgender person, but would it be a little more acceptable?

    Please understand that this isn't a rhetorical question and I'm not trying to make some clever point.

    I'm trying to educate myself.

  9. #1689
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Let me say first that Scarlet Johansson has done some other things that have rubbed me the wrong way. She still wears clothes designed by Harvey Weinstein 's wife. She publicly defends Woody Allen. And her response to this controversy wasn't very fucking endearing. So I think she knows EXACTLY what she's doing and doesn't care. At first I thought the backlash was a bit much, but upon looking into it, it is deserved.

    Ok here is my question: would it be better if a cis man played the role? I know it wouldn't be as good as an actual transgender person, but would it be a little more acceptable?

    Please understand that this isn't a rhetorical question and I'm not trying to make some clever point.

    I'm trying to educate myself.
    There is a growing pool of Trans actors and actresses who would be perfect for this role. ScarJo being snippy that people are coming after her for taking this role is classic Becky behavior. No cis people at all - hire Trans performers.

  10. #1690
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Please understand that this isn't a rhetorical question and I'm not trying to make some clever point.
    I feel we shouldn't apologize for asking questions. It's not some educate yourself, fool, everyone knows this topic.

    Btw, Meryl Streep gave a standing ovation to Roman Polanski and some people are still starstruck with her. At the very least Scarlett can just simply dig those clothes, which is far less worse, than clapping a rapist.

  11. #1691
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    Ok here is my question: would it be better if a cis man played the role? I know it wouldn't be as good as an actual transgender
    person, but would it be a little more acceptable?
    Absolutely.

    I think it would be best if a trans man got the part, because we are very underrepresented, which I had mentioned before, but, as Sick Among The Pure said, the character is a man. So he should be played by a man. Period. There would still be discussion and debate and probably some controversy but it would eliminate a huge chunk of the problem here.

  12. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Let me say first that Scarlet Johansson has done some other things that have rubbed me the wrong way. She still wears clothes designed by Harvey Weinstein 's wife. She publicly defends Woody Allen. And her response to this controversy wasn't very fucking endearing. So I think she knows EXACTLY what she's doing and doesn't care. At first I thought the backlash was a bit much, but upon looking into it, it is deserved.

    Ok here is my question: would it be better if a cis man played the role? I know it wouldn't be as good as an actual transgender person, but would it be a little more acceptable?

    Please understand that this isn't a rhetorical question and I'm not trying to make some clever point.

    I'm trying to educate myself.
    Yes, if they insisted on casting a cis actor for the role, it should be a cis man as the character is a man. I'm not saying "they need to cast a trans actor for every trans role ever forever the end" because I know that's just not going to happen right now. If they are going to cast a cis actor, at least cast a fucking man to play the role of a man.

  13. #1693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    I feel we shouldn't apologize for asking questions. It's not some educate yourself, fool, everyone knows this topic.
    Yeah, but I just wanted to make clear that it WAS an actual question. And I didn't apologize.

    Dude there's nothing wrong with asking people who feel personally affected by an issue about their thoughts on said issue. I think it's a good thing.
    Last edited by elevenism; 07-09-2018 at 03:18 PM.

  14. #1694
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Yeah, but I just wanted to make clear that it WAS an actual question. And I didn't apologize.

    Dude there's nothing wrong with asking people who feel personally affected by an issue about their thoughts on said issue. I think it's a good thing.
    Yeah. I don't agree with their reasoning, but I got my answers, so at least I am aware now.

  15. #1695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    I feel we shouldn't apologize for asking questions. It's not some educate yourself, fool, everyone knows this topic.

    Btw, Meryl Streep gave a standing ovation to Roman Polanski and some people are still starstruck with her. At the very least Scarlett can just simply dig those clothes, which is far less worse, than clapping a rapist.
    Oh, so we should give her a pass on causing harm to a marginalized community becase it's not as bad as rape? Wat.

  16. #1696
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Oh, so we should give her a pass on causing harm to a marginalized community becase it's not as bad as rape? Wat.
    Never said that. Merely grabbed the opportunity to shed some light on a hypocrisy. It's not either or.

  17. #1697
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    Honestly, who cares who plays a transgender? It's just a film role. I can't believe people are getting angry over Scarlett Johansson playing a transgender man. Honestly, it's just a role. If they can get a man to play that part, fine. Still at the end of the day, it's a business. If you want people to watch a movie about a transgender pimp, get whoever you can that can bring a wide audience. I honestly don't know why people are really upset over this. If they can get a transgender person to play that role with a top-notch director with a certain pedigree. Fine. Stop with this political correctness bullshit. I'm fucking tired of you SJWs acting like whiny little bitches.

  18. #1698
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    I'm fucking tired of you SJWs acting like whiny little bitches.
    Can I guess that you're cis? So you're telling people who are in a marginalized community that we're being "whiny little bitches"? You privilege is showing.

  19. #1699
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Can I guess that you're cis? So you're telling people who are in a marginalized community that we're being "whiny little bitches"? You privilege is showing.
    What the fuck is a cis? Honestly, I can't keep up with all of this shit. Transgender, transsexual, cisgender? What's the fucking difference? It's like everyone saying they're this and that. Fuck this 21st Century correctness mentality.

  20. #1700
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    What the fuck is a cis? Honestly, I can't keep up with all of this shit. Transgender, transsexual, cisgender? What's the fucking difference? It's like everyone saying they're this and that. Fuck this 21st Century correctness mentality.
    Honestly, I can't facepalm you enough for these posts.

    You're asking a community to relegate themselves to a "trend" and tell them to shut up and deal with it when a straight white female decides to take on a film role as a man who started off as a woman. Get out of here with that nonsense.

  21. #1701
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    What the fuck is a cis? Honestly, I can't keep up with all of this shit. Transgender, transsexual, cisgender? What's the fucking difference? It's like everyone saying they're this and that. Fuck this 21st Century correctness mentality.
    Are you transgender? If not then you're cis.

    Honestly, you complain about us whining but the only person I see having a meltdown in this thread is you. I'm so terribly sorry that the very real issues faced by trans people on a daily basis annoy you as a cis person. I can't even begin to imagine how hard that must be for you/ Here, have a tissue.

  22. #1702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Randazzo View Post
    Honestly, I can't facepalm you enough for these posts.

    You're asking a community to relegate themselves to a "trend" and tell them to shut up and deal with it when a straight white female decides to take on a film role as a man who started off as a woman. Get out of here with that nonsense.
    I'm sorry but why do we have to label this and that? Weren't any of you the ones praising Bruce Jenner for being a woman or something when he hasn't done shit to support this community?

  23. #1703
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    Ok, first of all, it's Caitlyn Jenner and she. Secondly, do you also get pissed off at the label "straight" for heterosexuals?

  24. #1704
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    Goddamn @thevoid99 . that's harsh talk.
    these are your peers, man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    What the fuck is a cis? Honestly, I can't keep up with all of this shit. Transgender, transsexual, cisgender? What's the fucking difference? It's like everyone saying they're this and that. Fuck this 21st Century correctness mentality.
    Dude, you should try to keep up. I always try. Iím not always up on things and I donít always do it correctly but if you donít at least try and are so hateful toward something you donít understand and donít want to, youíre already the grouchy old man yelling at the kids on your lawn.

    Please donít be that guy. Weíve been friendly here for years.

  26. #1706
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Ok, first of all, it's Caitlyn Jenner and she. Secondly, do you also get pissed off at the label "straight" for heterosexuals?
    No, it's Bruce. He/she will always be Bruce and we all know he changed his sex to avoid some manslaughter charge.

  27. #1707
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    No, it's Bruce. He/she will always be Bruce and we all know he changed his sex to avoid some manslaughter charge.

    I’m at the gym right now so I don’t have the time to go off on how much of a fucking idiot you’re being right now. Do us both a favor and delete that dumbass bullshit before I get home and have the time to properly tear you several new ones.

    oh, and suck my entire cock.
    Last edited by sick among the pure; 07-09-2018 at 05:39 PM.

  28. #1708
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    I'm so tired of this PC SJW BULLSHIT. If I am expected to refer to people with their correct gender pronouns, WHAT IS NEXT? Treating folks who have a different lived experience than me like people?! WHEN WILL IT STOP?!
    Last edited by Sarah K; 07-09-2018 at 06:01 PM.

  29. #1709
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    No, it's Bruce. He/she will always be Bruce and we all know he changed his sex to avoid some manslaughter charge.
    No, it's Caitlyn, and while I think she's generally short-sighted and kinda dumb, I still respect her name and her gender. It's common courtesy. Find some.

  30. #1710
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    DUDE! This is not the @thevoid99 I've come to know here. What in the hell are you doing, man?
    we all want to be treated with respect, to feel good about ourselves. And there are things that hurt and offend each of us.
    And out of fucking nowhere, you are saying things that are hateful and cause hurt to, like I said, YOUR PEERS.

    Why?

    You're a liberal aren't you? A leftist?
    And don't you have Latin blood? How would YOU feel if one of us started making nasty, racist comments about Hispanic folk? See, we wouldn't do that shit!

    Why in the fuck are you doing this?
    I'm genuinely shocked.

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