Active Member
I didn't think it was a bad song, but that part is definitely the weakest part of the song. It reminds me of how I felt when I first heard the weird "la la la la" part in APC's "People Are People," which is an otherwise great cover of the song.Originally Posted by Wade123
Active Member
It's the "woo" parts that really hurt the song. Otherwise, it's not horrible.
Active Member
Should have been a nice lead guitar playing that woo woo melody. Sounds so bad with him singing it. When I played it for my girl, you should have seen her face. She ain't a hardcore Pumpkins fan or anything, but she hates this song and told me to turn it off.
But even swapping out that horrible woo woo vocal still wouldn't save this atrocious song. The woo woo is the least of its problems. I'm sorry, this is just not my type of music at all. I cringe at it. The only emotions I get from this song are 1) embarrassment in case anyone else around me hears me playing it and 2) disgust at how benign, bland, safe, boring, lifeless this song is. The production is especially terrible across all three songs.
Seriously, I never thought the day would come when I would actually long for the days of Monuments To An Elegy. But somehow Billy has done it again and made me realize, oh yes it could still get so much more worse. If this is where Billy is going, I am gone. This is just not my type of music.
Last edited by neorev; 11-09-2018 at 06:17 PM.
Unintelligible Whispering
Personally, I wouldn't call a Smashing Pumpkins song that features backup soul-style singing and backwards-ish guitar solos safe at all, but that's just me. This is an infinitely more interesting song, if not all that likeable, than anything off MTAE, which I'd call the definition of the above criteria.
People who have heard the record are saying Marchin' On is a rocker though. There's enough variation between this, Silvery and Solara for me to look at the album and guess it's going to be a pastiche of different styles.
Stubby Member
That song made me sick
Ugh, this should be the worst song of 2018
Throbbing Member
You are probably right there, looks like this record will be a mixed bag trying to offer a little bit of everything. Not necessarily what people expect from a reunion album.
Active Member
It finally leaked.
EDIT: I REALLY like Travels – definitely one of the more classic sounding songs they've put out for a while. Marchin' On was pretty unexpectedly heavy and showcases Jimmy's drumming. I think it would be GREAT live.
Last edited by sonic_discord; 11-11-2018 at 01:01 PM.
Stubby Member
...I'm pretty happy with this. The only thing that seem REALLY offputting on it is the vocal take on Alienation, and maybe the woo-woo's on KoM.
Silvery, With Sympathy, and Marchin' On are all really, really good.
Stubby Member
Does anyone else love the "She stabs the empty clock" line? Fuck, while I do think my opinion of "Marchin' On" will diminish after the new album excitement wears off ("With Sympathy" and "Silvery Sometimes" are the truly great songs here), I am really, really excited, and surprised, to hear Billy even try to pull off a song like that.
Active Member
I liked Marchin' On...
...
...
With Sympathy was tolerable, Seek And You Shall Destroy was not too bad, Travels was okay yet dragged.
Sadly, the rest I did not like and I couldn't make it through. The mix/production/master really kills a lot of the songs for me, especially putting Billy's vocals so out front. At least Billy had some edge on Marchin' On and that one gave me those old SP feels there. I gave it two listens and if I had to give it a rating out of 5 stars... I'll give it 2 1/2.
Personally Zeitgeist is still the best one out of the post original line up albums that felt like Billy's writing still had some urgency and edge, but another one where the mix/production/master really hurts it. I think this new album/EP/whatever would benefit with production that was less so shiny and oh so bright. The over polish-ness of it all just sucks a lot of the life out of the songs for me. Perhaps the lossless will sound better than this rip. Some of the lyrics are a bit cringy. I'll give Billy Marchin' On, best song hands down. Releasing Marchin' On as a preceding single would kinda be like releasing Ava Adore ahead of Adore or The Everlasting Gaze ahead of Machina. It's a song that feels out of place among the rest. Even with the greatness of Marchin' On, I can't imagine myself coming back and listening to this album again. I tend to listen to albums as a whole mainly rather than just a bunch of single tracks I like. So if you can't keep me invested throughout an album, and sure some albums may have a song here or there I may not love, but too many of those and I will most likely not go back to that album even if it has that 1 song that I truly love.
Last edited by neorev; 11-11-2018 at 04:27 PM.
Throbbing Member
This is exactly how I feel as of now. I can't even begin to fathom what happened to this band.
Unintelligible Whispering
Mixed in here and there are, I'd say, some of the best tracks out of BC in like twenty years. It's not perfect, but it's a major, major step in the right direction.
-Travels is an accomplishment and the one that really put a grin on my face. Standout track. Really captured the old dreamy SP vibe. The repetitive simplicity of the lyrics actually hits the 'Billy's poetry works' box, finally.
-Marchin' On is like they flipped an SP 1.0 switch as a 'fuck you all, we can rock as hard as we ever did and I can bring out the nasal voice anytime I want' short statement of intent. I'd love them to extend this live.
-With Sympathy (that's the Jimmy-penned track) is nice and catchy enough, very pretty.
-Alienation feels half-baked. Almost there but not quite.
-Seek And You Shall Destroy is this weird mishmash of styles that doesn't quite get there but is still listenable and attention-grabbing.
-Solara and KOM sound better with the rest of the album in context.
Initial impressions leave me really, really happy overall. Shame about Jimmy's drums sounding like dried poop half the time, the mastering is of course subpar, but that's not killing it for me. If they can keep up this vibe next time with the shoegazey direction BC mentioned and not have Rubin as a producer I'm looking forward to more.
Last edited by Shadaloo; 11-11-2018 at 06:19 PM.
Active Member
I liked Indie Cindy. Looking forward to reading Pitchfork's 1.5/10 review that's been ready to publish since this summer.
House Always Wins
The last Pumpkins album I truly enjoyed and liked was Zeitgeist. Before that they've been churning out mediocre, barely digestible material since Machina.
Active Member
It's better than I was expecting. Enjoying the melody of Alienation. Marchin On turns it on. Still can't get into Knights of Malta.
Throbbing Member
With sympathy gives me a strong machina vibe.
Kind of a mixed bag otherwise, not bad but not great either I'm afraid, I'll need more listens.
Throbbing Member
It took me one full year to collect all the Zeitgeist variants and compile my own ultimate version of Zeitgeist. It was still missing Gossamer and American Gothic songs at the time.
Shiny is too short. Doesn't even feel like an album. There are good songs here and there, but they don't support each other at all. He probably left all the good songs off the album or saved it for his solo LP. We know that for a fact. Burnt Orange-Black, Red Dirt, Double R and Cardinal Rule. I'll gladly take TSP versions of Amarinthe and The Spaniards too. Where are the good songs?
I agree this is a step into the right direction. Marchin' On, Silvery and Travels are enjoyable. But this could've been much much better.
Throbbing Member
This needs more listens, but I'm digging it. The singles work better in the whole scheme of things.
I had "Alienation" in my head today.
Stubby Member
Believe it or not, I think Knights of Malta is my favorite track. Loved the female backing vox there and some of that little guitar wankery.
But then by the end I just kind of found myself not really caring all that much about the sum of the final product.
There wasn't anything painfully bad like Run2Me, and Marchin On And Seek and Destroy were noticeably decent at times, but just a lot of blended together mediocre.
I guess I was just hoping for some triple threat guitar attack album that I obviously had no business expecting.
It's slightly better than Monuments and Teargarden. I ordered the gold vinyl. I will give it more spins and opportunity to find more creative license than I'm seeing initially.
It feels like it's been too long of a while where he's produced any real songs of pain, rage, sadness, or even longer "journey" songs like United States or Oceania, and that everything should just be a 3-4 minute pop song to him now. In that sense it really is Monuments Pt 2. The most authentic thing he's done in a long time was the Ogilala album and tour. It wasn't spectacular but it felt like it came from a genuine place that was connected to where he was as an artist and a person.
So in as much as there is some decent stuff here, it's hard to get excited about the product. He also has some of the worst marketing people looking after him for the last decade plus. It's insane how bad that PR team is. Maybe that's on Billy for not giving them the control necessary, I'm not sure. But my god if you had anyone with any semblance of competence it would help package things a great deal for the masses. The names, the artwork, the release dates, the website, the bundles - all just nonsensical choices.
At the end of the day, this IS what the Pumpkins are now, and we all should have accepted that a while ago, but when you have James and Jimmy and even Jeff in the studio together for the first time it's hard not to look at this with more critical eyes due to the wasted potential.
Active Member
I miss the long, meaningful songs like Starla and Glass. I like the new songs. They're so limited though.
Active Member
@Piko
Starla is a top 10 SP track for me
Porcelina is also quite amazing
Active Member
I'm really not sure how anyone is liking this...
Throbbing Member
I like it because it is what he said. Eight songs Rick wanted to work on. Each one is memorable to me. Fan since 95 who just appreciates artists who put out tunes. I don’t wanna live in a world where I get themree albums and that’s that..
Stubby Member
For some reason 'Knights of Malta' to me sounds musically similar to Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds. He's got a bunch of songs in that style with piano, strings and backup singers.
Active Member
Yeah, I just can't get into it. Not even Marchin' On can save it.
Active Member
I'm liking it more and more as I continue to listen (ya know, because I'm giving it a chance and not dismissing it after one listen). Standout tracks are Silvery Sometimes, Travels, Marchin' On, and With Sympathy. Those four songs all have moments that recapture some of their past glory. Alienation has been getting stuck in my head, too. Knights of Malta is weird, but it's been growing on me. Solara and Silvery Sometimes both sound better in context. Overall, I think Oceania is easily a better album, but I'm enjoying this more than both Zeitgeist and Monuments to an Elegy (not to mention Teargarden by Kaleidyscope), which is definitely something. You're certainly entitled to your opinion if you don't think it's for you, but I'm digging several of the songs.
Unintelligible Whispering
Simple. There's a few songs there that kind of recapture the atmospherics, range, and prettier parts of old-school SP (for which I largely credit James coming back). I'm thrilled to have that aspect back in the mix.
What I tend to see is that Marchin' On is what kid of gets the half-hearted nod from people who are less than thrilled with the LP, which implies to me that a lot of people understandably miss SP's heavier, rockier side, which is overall absent these days.
One of the many reasons I loved the band in their prime was for the variety in their songs on most any given album, down to the kookier stuff. That's present here for me.
Active Member
@Shadaloo
I'm more of a Mellon Collie and Adore fan than a Gish/Siamese Dream one and I still do not like the new album
I wouldn't mind a heavier side, but even these lighter songs come nowhere near any of the lighter songs from Mellon Collie/Adore. I like Pumpkins for their variety, but I just can't get into this album as many of the songs come off as really cheesy and others half hearted. I just don't FEEL anything listening to these tracks. Plus the lyrics are cringy.
Active Member
I think the things for me that really make it weak are the things that have been apparent for awhile. Billy's vocals way in front, terrible lyrics, lack of good variety (IMO), flatlined production etc. This album has Jimmy and pretty much neuters him except for Solara and Marchin' On. The production doesn't help either.
Just my opinion, but I'm glad you guys are liking this.
Active Member
I do like most of it, but having said that, it doesn't make my top 5-6 albums of 2018 (which would include NIN, Ghost, APC, AIC, Prof, and Atmosphere).
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