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Thread: The Smashing Pumpkins

  1. #3481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reznor2112 View Post
    Billy no likey Zeitgeisty?
    Billy no likey criticism.

  2. #3482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piko View Post
    Billy no likey criticism.
    Fair -- that record came out when I was 17 and loved it -- I guess in my small world at that age, I didn't realize that the record caught any flack.

    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    Shit movie but the soundtrack looks sweet.
    Soundtrack got me into Underworld at the age of 7 -- then I saw Trainspotting

  3. #3483
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    *batman & robin. both are on the soundtrack, though. one opens it, the other closes it. and aren't the lyrics identical between the two songs? (i just checked, they are)
    Yes, I stand corrected, it was indeed Batman & Robin. I owned the soundtrack as well and loved both songs. The music video wasn't too great though.

  4. #3484
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    I still believe if Billy remixed the vocals on Zeitgeist that it would be a great album. My favorite version is the one with Death From Above. The first half through United States is what I wish the current Pumpkins was aiming for.

  5. #3485
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    Quote Originally Posted by rampface View Post
    I still believe if Billy remixed the vocals on Zeitgeist that it would be a great album. My favorite version is the one with Death From Above. The first half through United States is what I wish the current Pumpkins was aiming for.
    I do like a lot of the songs on the album, but the chorus of Billy's is just too much sometimes, and I guess that was the beginning of 'put the vocals up as high in the mix as possible'

  6. #3486
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    aren't the lyrics identical between the two songs? (i just checked, they are)
    Similar but not quite:

    TEITBITE:


    the sewers belch me up
    the heavens spit me out
    from ethers tragic i am born again
    and now i'm with you now
    inside your world of wow
    to move in desires made of deadly pretends
    till the end times begin

    is it bright where you are
    have the people changed
    does it make you happy you're so strange
    and in your darkest hour
    i hold secrets flame
    you can watch the world devoured in its pain
    strange

    climb my rib cage to
    the replays run for you
    unhook my lights to peek behind the flash
    for i am crystal chrome
    and i am shatter dome
    and i am kremlin king of angels avenged
    to destroy the end

    is it bright where you are
    have the people changed
    does it make you happy you're so strange
    and in your darkest hour
    i hold secrets flame
    you can watch the world devoured in its pain
    strange

    the zeppelins rain upon us
    the guns of love disastrous
    a shadow lies amongst you
    to defy the future path

    is it bright where you are
    have the people changed
    does it make you happy you're so strange
    and in your darkest hour
    i hold secrets plain
    you can watch the world devoured in its pain
    strange
    strange


    TBITEITB:

    send a heartbeat to the void that cries through you
    relive the pictures that have come to pass
    for now we stand alone
    the world is lost and blown
    and we are flesh and blood disintigrate
    with no more to hate

    is it bright where you are?
    and have the people changed?
    does it make you happy you're so strange?
    and in your darkest hour, i hold secrets flame
    we can watch the world devoured in its pain

    delivered from the blast
    the last of a line of lasts
    the pale princess of a palace cracked
    and now the kingdom comes
    crashing down undone
    and i am a master of a nothing place
    of recoil and grace

    is it bright where you are?
    and have the people changed?
    does it make you happy you're so strange?
    and in your darkest hour, i hold secrets flame
    we can watch the world devoured in its pain

    time has stopped before us
    the sky cannot ignore us
    no one can separate us
    for we are all that is left
    the echo bounces off me
    the shadow lost beside me
    there's no more need to pretend
    cause now i can begin again

    is it bright where you are?
    and have the people changed?
    does it make you happy you're so strange?
    and in your darkest hour, i hold secrets flame
    we can watch the world devoured in its pain
    strange

  7. #3487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piko View Post
    Wasn't there a version of Cash Car Star on the Adore Reissue?
    2014 Matt Walker remagining.


  8. #3488
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    Quote Originally Posted by rampface View Post
    I still believe if Billy remixed the vocals on Zeitgeist that it would be a great album. My favorite version is the one with Death From Above. The first half through United States is what I wish the current Pumpkins was aiming for.
    He's indicated that he knows the album in general needs a new mix in his Q&A's, but I wouldn't expect him to lower his vocals, unfortunately. I do hope for some adjustments or an outright replacement of the Million Billy Chorus

  9. #3489
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    Yeah, Cash Car Star was on the Adore deluxe edition. Saturnine's on there, too (twice). I believe both were originally Adore outtakes.

    Speaking of Adore, I do find that album great in some respects and a little lacking in others. Ava Adore is totally different in tone (both musically and lyrically) from the rest of the album and possibly should not have been the lead single. It's a false promise. I imagine many were disappointed when the rest of Adore sounded almost nothing like it.

    I think I may have said earlier in the thread that Billy Goats Gruff is a total moron for leaving Let Me Give The World To You off the album deliberately to piss off the label. An excellent song that's nothing more than a footnote on an expensive limited edition.

    ... and then there's Czarina, which is fucking gorgeous. How did this get left off?

    Last edited by katara; 06-18-2020 at 05:29 PM.

  10. #3490
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    Yeah, Cash Car Star was on the Adore deluxe edition. Saturnine's on there, too (twice). I believe both were originally Adore outtakes.

    Speaking of Adore, I do find that album great in some respects and a little lacking in others. Ava Adore is totally different in tone (both musically and lyrically) from the rest of the album and possibly should not have been the lead single. It's a false promise. I imagine many were disappointed when the rest of Adore sounded almost nothing like it.

    I think I may have said earlier in the thread that Billy Goat's Gruff is a total moron for leaving Let Me Give The World To You off the album deliberately to piss off the label. An excellent song that's nothing more than a footnote on an expensive limited edition.

    ... and then there's Czarina, which is fucking gorgeous. How did this get left off?
    I always loved Adore. I may have posted this before, but I made my own Adore tracklisting that features more of its electronic side. I think it helps make Ava Adore feel more fitting as the lead single.

    01 Ava Adore
    02 Eye
    03 Perfect
    04 Daphne Descends
    05 Saturnine
    06 Tear
    07 Crestfallen
    08 To Sheila
    09 Waiting
    10 Appels + Oranjes
    11 Pug
    12 Shame
    13 Behold! The Night Mare
    14 For Martha
    15 Blank Page
    16 Blissed And Gone
    17 17

    I thought Let Me Give The World To You was okay, nothing groundbreaking.

    I prefer this tune...

  11. #3491
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    Ava Adore is totally different in tone (both musically and lyrically) from the rest of the album and possibly should not have been the lead single. It's a false promise. I imagine many were disappointed when the rest of Adore sounded almost nothing like it.
    time to repost a timeless classic



  12. #3492
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    Haha I was 13 when the album was released so I remember thinking "what the fuck... this doesn't sound like Ava Adore or Eye or The Beginning is the End..." It grew on me but as a young teenager I was initially disappointed.

  13. #3493
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    I'm pretty sure Billy's idea of the first single was Let Me Give the World to You, but the label pushed Ava instead. Billy got pissed and took the song off the album entirely.

    edit: d'oh!
    Last edited by fillow; 06-20-2020 at 03:26 AM.

  14. #3494
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    I'm pretty sure Billy's idea of the first single was Let Me Give the World to You, but the label pushed Ava instead. Billy got pissed and took the song off the album entirely.
    It's the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Corgan
    And the true story is, I handed in the record to the record company. And I get the call, they want to make ‘Let Me Give the World to You’ the first single. And I was like, ‘Hell, no.’ And the only way I could stop them was to take it off the record. Someone asked me about this, ‘It sounds like it could have been a hit song at that time, so why take it off the record?’ And I said, ‘Because I spent a whole f—ing year trying to make this avant-garde thing.’ ‘Perfect’ or ‘Ava Adore’ were more representative [of the album], and now we’re gonna release the song with the dry, milquetoast production. And it isn’t even as avant-garde as the stuff on Mellon Collie, much less Adore! I didn’t want to step back to simple pop [on the single], and then try to sell this avant-garde record! It wasn’t that I hated it, or even that I hated what Rick had done. He did a great job. It was more that I didn’t want to blow up everything I’d done for this one song. So the song had to go. And in the basement it went, for sixteen or eighteen years

  15. #3495
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I always loved Adore. I may have posted this before, but I made my own Adore tracklisting that features more of its electronic side. I think it helps make Ava Adore feel more fitting as the lead single.

    01 Ava Adore
    02 Eye
    03 Perfect
    04 Daphne Descends
    05 Saturnine
    06 Tear
    07 Crestfallen
    08 To Sheila
    09 Waiting
    10 Appels + Oranjes
    11 Pug
    12 Shame
    13 Behold! The Night Mare
    14 For Martha
    15 Blank Page
    16 Blissed And Gone
    17 17

    I thought Let Me Give The World To You was okay, nothing groundbreaking.

    I prefer this tune...
    Going to try this. I love Adore - even on release, much to the dismay of people who had to drive around with me! - but it's been a long time since I've spun it up.

  16. #3496
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I always loved Adore. I may have posted this before, but I made my own Adore tracklisting that features more of its electronic side. I think it helps make Ava Adore feel more fitting as the lead single.

    01 Ava Adore
    02 Eye
    03 Perfect
    04 Daphne Descends
    05 Saturnine
    06 Tear
    07 Crestfallen
    08 To Sheila
    09 Waiting
    10 Appels + Oranjes
    11 Pug
    12 Shame
    13 Behold! The Night Mare
    14 For Martha
    15 Blank Page
    16 Blissed And Gone
    17 17

    I thought Let Me Give The World To You was okay, nothing groundbreaking.

    I prefer this tune...
    is there no love for The Tale of Dusty and Pistol Pete?

  17. #3497
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    I love Adore--terrific album, one that I didn't fully appreciate until I bought the box set and really explored it--demos-live albums, mono version, etc.

  18. #3498
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    Eye really should have been on the album.

    I was really hoping the Pumpkins would build on the sound of "The Beginning is the End..." after Melon Collie (I was also 12/13 years old) and do something dark and heavy with electronic elements. Has Billy ever mentioned why after 1997 he suddenly fell out of love with the heavier side of the Pumpkins sound? Similar to Adore, Machina opens with "The Everlasting Gaze" and changes direction for the rest of the record ("Heavy Metal Machine" tries but lacks the intensity). The first half of Zeitgeist also comes close to scratching that itch if the vocals didn't completely drown out the guitars. It just seems to me like Billy is resistant to exploring that style of songwriting anymore. I was hoping the recent tour that was planned was a indication that maybe we would see a return to form... but I know never to assume that with the Pumpkins lol

  19. #3499
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    Quote Originally Posted by rampface View Post
    Has Billy ever mentioned why after 1997 he suddenly fell out of love with the heavier side of the Pumpkins sound? Similar to Adore, Machina opens with "The Everlasting Gaze" and changes direction for the rest of the record ("Heavy Metal Machine" tries but lacks the intensity). The first half of Zeitgeist also comes close to scratching that itch if the vocals didn't completely drown out the guitars. It just seems to me like Billy is resistant to exploring that style of songwriting anymore.
    May be something to do with any of the following:
    His mother dying.
    His divorce with Chris Fabian.
    Jimmy Chamberlin and Jonathan Melvoin overdosing on heroin while on tour, with the latter dying and the former being kicked out as a result.
    Drama. The band in general falling apart. D'arcy descended into drugs, left the band to pursue an acting career (which I guess failed) and now lives on a farm. Billy blamed Iha for the 2000 break-up (he blames everyone, though).

    I imagine any one of these things would be enough to change any band.

  20. #3500
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    Well, I wouldn't say it ever totally went away. See Zwan's "Spilled Milk", and then such things as "United States", "Goassamer, "Dream Machine", and "As Rome Burns."
    Last edited by Shadaloo; 06-22-2020 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Marchin' On is good too

  21. #3501
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    Even new stuff like Solara has a strong rock feel. It's not heavy like XYU, sure, but to be honest, not much of the material ever was.

    The disconnect you're having may be to do with the mix, where the vocals are a little higher and the guitars are pushed further to the background. I imagine that many of the often dismissed newer songs (post-Zwan) would sound enormous in a live setting.

  22. #3502
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    I agree about the mixing.

  23. #3503
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    Been deep diving into the Adore stuff more and I have to say I love this little gem.


  24. #3504
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    Recent sparse updates:
    Bill's approved the first 'archive" SP release, that and release date on Shiny Vol. II "Soon". Gotta love them announcement announcements.
    The Today Video got an HD remastering treatment. Happy 27th, Siamese Dream


  25. #3505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reznor2112 View Post
    Been deep diving into the Adore stuff more and I have to say I love this little gem.

    I've said a few times that I did the fully appreciate Adore until I explored the boxset--just amazing body-of-work.

  26. #3506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    The Today Video got an HD remastering treatment. Happy 27th, Siamese Dream
    Darn, looks to be a simple automated SD to HDR conversion.

  27. #3507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Bill's approved the first 'archive" SP release
    What's this? How is it different from the re-releases?

    Please forgive my ignorance.

  28. #3508
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    What's this? How is it different from the re-releases?

    Please forgive my ignorance.
    For a few years now Billy's been talking about releasing batches of music consisting entirely of never-before-heard or not-officially-released stuff from throughout the band's career. In the past he also mentioned that he'd be into putting together a compilation of everything the band did before Gish, I imagine that might be one such thing. Like "The Smashing Pumpkins 1988-1990" or something.

  29. #3509
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    Unclear if SP will open for GN'R on the makeup dates for 2021.

  30. #3510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    For a few years now Billy's been talking about releasing batches of music consisting entirely of never-before-heard or not-officially-released stuff from throughout the band's career. In the past he also mentioned that he'd be into putting together a compilation of everything the band did before Gish, I imagine that might be one such thing. Like "The Smashing Pumpkins 1988-1990" or something.
    Ah right, of course. I forgot how insanely prolific this band can be.

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