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Thread: The Smashing Pumpkins

  1. #3031
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    is the gold record already sold out?!!! FUCKKK....

  2. #3032
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    I think it's only available on the UK Store

    What a fucking crazy morning full of news and bundles this has been to wake up to

  3. #3033
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    i saw it standalone on my phone for US$26 or so this morning... but when i went to buy just now, all gone from us store


    AND yes, i am the olds who has stop reading internet so good... lol
    Last edited by dvdglss; 09-14-2018 at 12:29 PM. Reason: found it

  4. #3034
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    New song's alright. Chorus is very underwhelming. First listen I was waiting for the chorus and it never came. The chorus felt like it was leading to something that never came.

  5. #3035
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    at least we got a CD and it's not all about vinyl only

  6. #3036
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    My problem with the new tracks, Billy's vocals ruin Silvery Sometimes and Solara for me. It just doesn't sound sincere. He seems to have chosen singing this way because he thinks it sounds technically better, but where is the emotion? He has chosen technique over conveying emotion. His voice sounds so sterile and lackadaisical. Solara was the same. The feeling is gone. He may think he wasn't the best vocalist back in the day and that is probably true, but jesus at least you felt something in his singing. It didn't need to sound perfect or technically flawless, it just needed to convey emotion. You could feel his pain or longing. His singing felt human and honest. People say the drums are lifeless as a drum machine, well I say the vocals sound lifeless as a guy just going through the motions. People ripped Billy's voice back in the day, but you felt their intention: the rage, the sadness, the bittersweet. This? Sterile, stagnant, empty, lifeless. Rick Rubin's glossy production doesn't help, but even an amazing producer like Flood or Butch Vig can't do a thing if the singer doesn't sound like he truly feels the lyrics he is singing. These newer tracks, he just doesn't convey any emotion to me. They sound so... just blah. This is my biggest issue.

  7. #3037
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    My problem with the new tracks, Billy's vocals ruin Silvery Sometimes and Solara for me. It just doesn't sound sincere. He seems to have chosen singing this way because he thinks it sounds technically better, but where is the emotion? He has chosen technique over conveying emotion. His voice sounds so sterile and lackadaisical. Solara was the same. The feeling is gone. He may think he wasn't the best vocalist back in the day and that is probably true, but jesus at least you felt something in his singing. It didn't need to sound perfect or technically flawless, it just needed to convey emotion. You could feel his pain or longing. His singing felt human and honest. People say the drums are lifeless as a drum machine, well I say the vocals sound lifeless as a guy just going through the motions. People ripped Billy's voice back in the day, but you felt their intention: the rage, the sadness, the bittersweet. This? Sterile, stagnant, empty, lifeless. Rick Rubin's glossy production doesn't help, but even an amazing producer like Flood or Butch Vig can't do a thing if the singer doesn't sound like he truly feels the lyrics he is singing. These newer tracks, he just doesn't convey any emotion to me. They sound so... just blah. This is my biggest issue.
    He hasn't sounded sincere singing since TheFutureEmbrace, by my estimation.

  8. #3038
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonsinthesky View Post
    He hasn't sounded sincere singing since TheFutureEmbrace, by my estimation.
    I'd say Zwan.

  9. #3039
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piko View Post
    I'd say Zwan.
    I'd say Oceania. That album is supremely underrated.

  10. #3040
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    I'd say Oceania. That album is supremely underrated.
    It is. I meant just his vocal approach changing with Zwan onward.

  11. #3041
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    I like his vocals a lot on Pinwheels, Pale Horse and Wildflower a lot. I think he gets a good performance in on almost every album but they’ve become fewer and farther between with each album.

    More interestingly though is that on his Insta Billy said James sings on the new album.

  12. #3042
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    My problem with the new tracks, Billy's vocals ruin Silvery Sometimes and Solara for me. It just doesn't sound sincere. He seems to have chosen singing this way because he thinks it sounds technically better, but where is the emotion? He has chosen technique over conveying emotion. His voice sounds so sterile and lackadaisical. Solara was the same. The feeling is gone. He may think he wasn't the best vocalist back in the day and that is probably true, but jesus at least you felt something in his singing. It didn't need to sound perfect or technically flawless, it just needed to convey emotion. You could feel his pain or longing. His singing felt human and honest. People say the drums are lifeless as a drum machine, well I say the vocals sound lifeless as a guy just going through the motions. People ripped Billy's voice back in the day, but you felt their intention: the rage, the sadness, the bittersweet. This? Sterile, stagnant, empty, lifeless. Rick Rubin's glossy production doesn't help, but even an amazing producer like Flood or Butch Vig can't do a thing if the singer doesn't sound like he truly feels the lyrics he is singing. These newer tracks, he just doesn't convey any emotion to me. They sound so... just blah. This is my biggest issue.
    Someone on Netpho put it well: to sing the way he used to he'd really have to use his stomach muscles and diaphragm, and doing it the way he used to would have caused his voice to deteriorate in the long run. So it was a conscious choice to change his delivery method, and the problem I don't think is that he's singing emotionlessly, it's that the way he's doing it makes it much harder to convey that sense of urgency and emotion when it comes to a song like Solara which kind of begs immediacy.

    For my money, Silvery is much better than Solara in the vocal delivery department, and I think he does a much better job of conveying a sense of wistfulness in this one. There's absolutely a sense of desperation in "we're in the middle". Song seems to be about the feeling of being a helpless passerby while awful events happen in the world - it would also help if his lyrics were a bit less abstract, but he's a bit more down to earth here than recently. We're quite a few steps above "lover you're strange" x100.

    Three days on and I'm still waking up with it in my head. It's a keeper for me.

  13. #3043
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    What would be a good album for someone new to the band to get into? (I'm talking about myself)

  14. #3044
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    What would be a good album for someone new to the band to get into? (I'm talking about myself)
    Sismese Dream is classic start to finish, maybe the only universally agreed on SP album and heavy on fuzzy guitars if you dig that sound. If you like that a lot, try Gish after.

    Mellon Collie is the gigantic, sprawling, 2-disc “every radio hit ever” opus and is probably the one with the most songs you’d recognize. Bullet With Butterfly Wings, Thirty Three, Zero, Tonight Tonight and 1979 are all on here. Like any double album its tracklist can feel imperfect or odd at times but it’s best material is their best material and well worth the ride, from there you can really figure out what “sides” of the band you prefer. Hearing your favorites from it could help in recommending more.

    Adore is amazing if you love quieter, moodier, gothier work. Described as a funeral march by Billy it’s nothing but sad songs and has become a fan favorite over the years but isn’t the best representation of the rest of the discography.

    Machina is probably best appreciated once you’ve already gotten into other work.

    Oceania is the best album of post-reunion SP and gives a good idea of how they’ve sounded since Billy brought the name back.

  15. #3045
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    I'd say Mellon Collie or Siamese Dream first. Then branch out from there. Adore is a great album. But it's also a very huge departure from everything before it and after. Don't expect a rock album. It's requires an open mind for sure.

  16. #3046
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    What would be a good album for someone new to the band to get into? (I'm talking about myself)
    Siamese, MCIS, Pisces Iscariot, Gish to start with. Aeroplane Flies High if you really love the MCIS sound. Adore and the Machinas afterwards.

  17. #3047
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    Start with Mellon Collie...

    If you like the heavier, more rock side of it, move to Siamese Dream next...
    OR
    If you like the chiller, calmer, acoustic side, go Adore next.

    If you absolutely love Mellon Collie, then definitely check out it's companion The Aeroplane Flies High.

    If you like Siamese Dream and/or Gish, you will probably like Pisces Iscariot as it's their b-side collection.

    I'd save Machina for last.

  18. #3048
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    What would be a good album for someone new to the band to get into? (I'm talking about myself)
    Siamese Dream. To me, there's no question about it, that's the one.

    It's one of the most iconic albums of the 90s, and even today it remains their most well-respected album. If you only check out one Smashing Pumpkins album, this should be the one.
    Last edited by Mantra; 09-16-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  19. #3049
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    Melon Collie for sure.

  20. #3050
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    What would be a good album for someone new to the band to get into? (I'm talking about myself)
    Start here:


  21. #3051
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbie solo View Post
    start here:

    lol! Stay away!
    Last edited by neorev; Yesterday at 04:20 PM.

  22. #3052
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    What would be a good album for someone new to the band to get into? (I'm talking about myself)
    I always start with a Greatest Hits / Best of. From there you isolate the songs you love and check the corresponding album.

  23. #3053
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    I listened to Siamese Dream this morning. How the fuck did I miss this band?

  24. #3054
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    I listened to Siamese Dream this morning. How the fuck did I miss this band?
    You discovered the band now, so good for you. It's actually much better to discover the band now, with all the reissues and the Rarities & B-Sides collection.
    It's easier. Back then it was a mess. It still is to a degree.

    Also, nobody here recommended post-2007 pumpkins material. Don't ignore SP2.0. Zwan and Billy's solo albums (*fwiw, consider AEGEA and Siddhartha nonexistent) too if you enjoy the run.
    They do have their weaknesses, but some songs are really solid. It's not a waste of time.

    Pro tips 1: Never visit netphoria. Avoid at all costs. spfc.org is your friend.
    Pro tips 2: Don't believe Billy, or William Patrick Corgan.
    Pro tips 3: When you're done, listen to live bootlegs. Some B-sides and live-only songs are way better than A-sides.
    Last edited by poro765; Today at 04:57 AM.

  25. #3055
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    I listened to Siamese Dream this morning. How the fuck did I miss this band?
    Welcome aboard. You're in for the long haul and there's no going back
    @poro765 is absolutely right that there's a lot of great stuff after the initial run, but it's a patchy journey. I'd really acquaint yourself with the first lineup's albums up to 2000 first, then journey forward. And there are so very, very many bootleg compilations and demos that are staples of their history: Mashed Potatoes, The Ignoffo Tape, Billy's Gravity Demos, MCIS Demos I-III, and numerous, numerous excellent live recordings, soundboard and otherwise to discover, thanks to Billy's philosophy of wanting everyone to hear everything they do Happy to offer recommendations or provide links to anything you're curious about.

    In other news I'm creating my own Machina II booklet because the ones out there suck badly IMO

  26. #3056
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    I recommended Oceania as the best post-2000s lineup album to check out but agree it should be after getting into the classic run. Gish gets overlooked a lot and even I am guilty of that sometimes but is a stellar debut and a great way to get a look at the band who were warming up to make an album as colossal as Siamese Dream. Mellon Collie would be the next best one to listen to and then you can feel out your tastes from there, it is a very multifaceted and diverse catalog and they’re a band that from the very beginning, much like NIN, tried to do something sifferent with every album.

    There are a million b-sides and rarities and demos and alternate versions and boxsets loaded with that sort of stuff but I’d recommend holding off until you get into all the main albums — they’re better appreciated that way and Billy has a truly overwhelming body of work. The best way to enjoy this band is to focus as little as possible on the drama around it and find your eras you love, because there’s always more material than you realized regardless on what periods you favor. As whiney as Billy can sound about not feeling like he’s been taken seriously enough, when you start to see the scope and scale of his discography it makes sense he’d feel entitled a bit, because it’s enormous.
    Last edited by kleiner; Today at 11:13 AM. Reason: gish not gosh

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