Likes: 
Faceplams: I seem to be in the minority, but I really like these new songs a lot. They have kind of a Cure/New Wave/MTAE vibe.
Active Member
I seem to be in the minority, but I really like these new songs a lot. They have kind of a Cure/New Wave/MTAE vibe.
Throbbing Member
Cyr is not what I want from this band. But....... I don’t hate it?
Active Member
Lots of negativity here.
Pumpkins' first two albums had a 'sound' which had much to do with Butch Vig's involvement. Siamese Dream was released almost 30 years ago. There have been many line-ups and tumultuous times. In the river of time, things change. People change. The only rock in that river is Billy Corgan. Just like NIN is Trent Reznor, Smashing Pumpkins is WPC. Let's let the man move on from the past and write the songs he wants to write.
I do agree that the other band members just seem to be along for the ride. Still, weren't they always?
Definitely getting that 80s Cure flavour.
Active Member
I'm not asking for another Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, but just something with some edge and soul. This new stuff is just so frigging boring and bland and meandering. I think the fame and major success of their older albums ruined Billy. It just feels like he has nothing to say anymore. I can't tell if Billy actually likes the new music he's making or just trying to write what he thinks the masses would like. He's an amazing guitar player. So where are the melodies, riffs, leads? Chamberlain is one of the greatest drums. So where are his drums? These songs are lifeless. Stale production. His lyrics are so impersonal, like he's just writing some lyrics for the sake of having lyrics. Like an afterthought. At least with his earlier work, you got a look into his soul and emotions. There is no emotion in these new tracks. I don't feel they're saying anything unique. Their recent videos have been a cringefest too.Originally Posted by katara
Look at Deftones, they can still knock out songs with emotion, edge, and soul. Hum put out a damn good album this year. Trent changes his sound, but it still has soul. You're still hearing from him.
I don't need a Siamese Dream 2 or a Mellon Collie 2, I just want a SP song that makes me feel something besides "Press skip."
Last edited by neorev; 08-28-2020 at 05:41 PM.
Throbbing Member
Jimmy is dancing while playing a tambourine. James and Jeff are basically just standing there, strumming the guitar 3 times once in a while.
I wonder how they'll play this song live.
Throbbing Member
Sorry, but a 50+ year old that’s had a lot of success is probably not feeling very edgy or angsty.
Active Member
If anything, I honestly think the internet and paying too much attention to what the fans and haters are saying are to blame and are what's eroded away the soul and personal lyrics. I think he's become too self-conscious and guarded to allow himself to reveal too much these days. I've listened to both songs a few more times and they're growing on me a little, but I was still hoping for something with a little more emotion and some soaring guitars (there are three guitarists, after all).
Unintelligible Whispering
Been saying it for ages, ever since around Oceania or so: Billy's number-one enemy is his own flowery prose. I don't think anybody knew Oceania was largely about a painful break-up until he said so. These songs would be much better served by some nice relatable lyrics.
As far as production goes...I'm going to a) wait until I have my own copy of the album so I'm not listening to crap-arse Youtube quality and b) hear the rest of the stuff in context. This already sounds better to my ears than whatever Rick Rubin was doing (or not doing). I do wish the guitars were higher in the mix...but on that note, vocals don't seem quite as up front as usual, so I'm kinda liking that.
Active Member
I personally don't mind the "flowery prose" when he does it in lyrics for a song, especially since he's consistently done that since the beginning. It's when he posts that kind of shit in an Instagram post that it comes off as impossibly pretentious and verbose. As far as Oceania being about a painful breakup, I think that's precisely why it was such a strong album – because it was about something meaningful. It had an intensely personal and emotional impetus for the songs and that emotion comes across in a way it hadn't since Machina (or maybe a few Zeitgeist b-sides and American Gothic).
I'm mostly in agreement with you here. I didn't hate Rubin's production on Shiny vol. 1, but these do sound better in that department. I agree the guitars should be a bit higher in the mix and I also think the backing vocals could be lowered a tad. Let's hope the next countdown ends with two more singles that are complete departures from this style and represent the polar opposite of what Shiny vol. 2 has to offer. With 20 tracks on it, there really needs to be some diversity among the songs.
Last edited by sonic_discord; 08-29-2020 at 12:12 AM. Reason: clarity
Active Member
Chino is 47 and he has given us not just Deftones, but Team Sleep, Crosses, and Palms. It's not about edge or angst, it's about passion and emotion and spilling your soul out through your music. Billy lost a lot of that 20 years ago.
Throbbing Member
ALL. OF. THIS.
Nothing is gained from these tracks. The lyrics don't connect, the music doesn't utilize the players strengths, the songwriting is painfully generic, etc.
Throbbing Member
Chino sounds fucking awful. He’s doing the same sleepy screams he’s always done. Doesn’t make it more passionate.
it’s just an unfortunate reality. As these guys we grew up with age, with success, they lose that ‘edge’ or passion. But they still like to create. And, like it more not, people can write something amazing and then never be able to top it. A creative peak, if you will.
Unintelligible Whispering
Scene: Zoom band meeting
Billy: So Shiny volume 1 didn't leave much of a mark. Ideas?
Jimmy: *shrug* Your project, your call.
Billy: Eh. I did a Cars tribute album not too long ago. Let's do some synthpop?
James: Sure, whatever. Where's Jeff?
Billy: Off doing Night Dreamer.
Jimmy: Should we revisit any old sounds?
Billy: Nah, I'm sick of all of that. Let's do some New Order shit.
James: bUt WhAt aBoUt SoMa????
...
*All three burst into laughter*
FIN
Active Member
Chino sounds way better and has more life in his voice than Billy can muster in the last 20 years. You're really gonna say Chino sounds awful when talking about Billy Corgan of today? Billy's vocal technique has only gotten worse with age. Deftones sound way more passionate than anything Billy has done in 20 years. The last time Billy had a hint of any passion was maybe Zeitgeist. Machina was the beginning of the end.
Banned
Washed up has been who has been irrelevant for 22 years releases yet another batch of shitty music. More news at 11
To the people comparing this to 80s Cure....That is an absolute insult of the highest order to the genius that is Robert Smith....Robert on his worst day in the middle of a 3 day booze and LSD bender would not come up with drivel this bad and embarrassing...
Throbbing Member
Cure and Depeche Mode. A lot of 90s rock bands need to realize they suck at synthpop.
Even if this album ages well, it would be the absolute nadir of SP.
Do they even realize why we listened to them in the first place?
It was because we were sick and tired of these shitty 80s pop songs that were a cheap copy of Joy Division/New Order, The Cure or Depeche Mode.
Active Member
The problem is Billy never had a great voice to begin with. So once you lose that raw emotion he once had that translated through the music, it just ends up being a bland tune and Billy's grating voice singing some meaningless, flowery, pretentious, "poetic" nonsense. None of Billy's or the band's power that gripped you is there. And power doesn't mean heavy, but gripping and moving, like feeling was put into it. You are left with some generic meandering synth rock tune with Billy's nasally voice, which only gotten worse when he lost the emotion he once had chasing what he considers perfection. SP was never about amazing vocals, but the passion and emotion that came through. He tries too hard to sing "perfect" now instead of letting his emotions come through. He must think he sounds better now cuz he cranks his vocals to 11. Just like this overly produced sound he's been going for. Again, he has all this talent with the current band line up. Hearing these new songs, I have to ask where is the damn band?
Anyway, I have a new Deftones album and a new Deadsy album to look forward to, which both sound more promising.
Last edited by neorev; 08-29-2020 at 05:31 AM.
Active Member
That's kind of what it sounds like to me, sorry.
Tough crowd.
I liked these two new songs. I have pretty much liked everything Billy has released. I didn't really care for the Teargarden EPs or the last one, but didn't hate them either. Some of the vitriol in this thread is a little over-the-top. Did Billy run over your puppy and make a stew with its corpse or something?
Last edited by GulDukat; 08-29-2020 at 08:44 AM.
Banned
The Cure never did cheesy dance pop at their WORST. The closest they came was 'Lovecats' and 'The Walk' which Robert admitted was a joke when he wrote those and goofing on his whole goth vampire image that the media had of The Cure at the time. The scary thing is Billy boy is dead serious. This sounds like Erasure
Unintelligible Whispering
Look, I love the Cure and all, but that is exactly what most of Wild Mood Swings was.
I love how personal all the anger and disappointment in this thread is - can't help but feel like it's exactly what Billy wants.
Put on 'Anaise' off MTAE this morning. It's still worse.
Unintelligible Whispering
There's still 18 or so odd tracks to hear. My prediction is that people come away with the usual "One half of this would have made for a great album".
Active Member
New songs sounding like Big Black Delta featuring Nosferatu on the vocals.
Active Member
He's not 90 for god's sake.
Active Member
I don't know man, The Rolling Stones have 25 years on Billy and they still tour.
The Virus Inside
I too very much enjoy these songs.
Not sure what's with all the hate.
These are the best songs I've heard from Billy and friends since... Zeitgeist.
I like this sound/direction.
Throbbing Member
Much better this way, as usual.
Unintelligible Whispering
It's reeeeal easy to disparage someone's work when you personally dislike the artist but have high expectations of 'em.
In other news, Cyr has over a million views on Youtube now and that's baffling even to me
Banned
1 million youtube views in less than a week. I mean reviews have been terrible everywhere. Needle drop Fantano listed the song on his "worst tracks" segment. I wonder how many views on YT are people who are just watching so they can see the flaming trainwreck that is Billy's career. Same way the Corey Feldman twerk performance on the Today show got 3 million views. In a way its fascinating to watch this guy firebomb whats left of his "legacy"...Billy really has become the Corey Feldman of music....Its so bad but you can't look away....Whats he gonna do next to alienate his audience? A faithful rendition of the Bee Gees disco hit 'Stayin Alive'? A faithful rendition of New Kids On The Block 'The Right Stuff'??? I wouldn't put it past him
Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 09-01-2020 at 04:27 PM.
Active Member
The song is formulaic, not overly complicated.
Derivative of '80s synthpop which has been popular in the last few years.
Video's solarised filtering adds to that retro effect.
The 'millennial whoop' which repeats throughout is some kind of bizarre auditory drug that automatically prints money.
The whole presentation is easy to understand, easy on the ears, easy on the eyes. Most people don't want something they have to think about, they just want something to dance to, impress their friends with, or simply have on in the background as wallpaper music.
Unintelligible Whispering
I get where you're coming from, but man, sometimes I think you need a hug
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