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Thread: The Smashing Pumpkins

  1. #3901
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    Nice little strummed version of Check My Brain on the Alice award show just now.

  2. #3902
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    Cyr should've been a solo record, but I think it has SP attached to it for money reasons. I'm sure there was a conversation like "Hey I could get paid for this by myself or attach you guys to it". I'm just guessing of course, but that's my feeling, if so that's great.

    Did any of you listen to the Stern interview from this week? Billy pretty much doesn't get along with anyone, and he doesn't listen to management...sounds familiar.

  3. #3903
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    Maybe it's just me, but isn't explaining to people why they shouldn't like BC, the band or the album the "condescending" part here - especially when, in this argument, using rumors, prejudices, mental conditions or allegations about why BC did this or that?

  4. #3904
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but isn't explaining to people why they shouldn't like BC, the band or the album the "condescending" part here - especially when, in this argument, using rumors, prejudices, mental conditions or allegations about why BC did this or that?
    Exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    A funny observation, you never really see the folks who do not like the album put down the folks that do, but the folks who like the album always seem to put down those who don't. If someone doesn't like Cyr, there must be something wrong with that person. It is kind of condescending to say "They don't get it," or "They're not listening correctly," or "You were just expecting this or that," or "It's not about the art itself," instead of it simply being they just don't like what they are hearing. Hence panties being in a twist.
    I think it's quite the opposite, I've seen in this board that people that liked Cyr do not try to convince the haters, and the haters are the ones that are trying to say that people that liked Cyr are dumb (or stuff like that). And this is from someone that thinks that Cyr is quite mediocre, uninspired, and boring. I wanted Cyr to be an exciting SP album, really wanted them to succed but it was not the case (for me) this time. We get it, you don't like the album and that's fine, but I think it's time to move on.

    Couple nights ago I listened again to the Snail performance with Chino Moreno...what a show!

  5. #3905
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    Quote Originally Posted by cahernandez View Post
    Exactly!



    I think it's quite the opposite, I've seen in this board that people that liked Cyr do not try to convince the haters, and the haters are the ones that are trying to say that people that liked Cyr are dumb (or stuff like that). And this is from someone that thinks that Cyr is quite mediocre, uninspired, and boring. I wanted Cyr to be an exciting SP album, really wanted them to succed but it was not the case (for me) this time. We get it, you don't like the album and that's fine, but I think it's time to move on.

    Couple nights ago I listened again to the Snail performance with Chino Moreno...what a show!
    I've been attacked on this board and I've seen it happen to others in other fan communities. They say they dislike Cyr and people jump down their throat, telling them why it is they do not like something. And I have never once knocked anyone for liking the album. I've only responded when I've been told why I supposedly don't like it by someone else. I don't like it because I'm a hater. I don't like it because I'm just negative. I don't like it because I've got a chip on my shoulder, I don't like it because I'm giving it a chance. I don't like it because I'm not really listening. I don't like it because I wanted another Siamese Dream. Everyone else seems to know the reason why the person who doesn't like the album is feeling the way they do.
    Last edited by neorev; 12-02-2020 at 09:24 AM.

  6. #3906
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I've been attacked on this board and I've seen it happen to others in other fan communities. They say they dislike Cyr and people jump down their throat, telling them why it is they do not like something.
    It looks like we're not one of these supposed communities, and let's keep it that way. I don't know which ones you mean (Pumpkins subreddit is pretty civil about it too). Yet I see that you have 9 posts in a row in this very thread pushing your anti-Cyr agenda.
    And I'm not even defending the album - didn't listen to it yet apart from the very first two singles (which I liked).

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    ...

    is the Manson thread leaking.

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    Sometimes it seems that adult males go back to high school mode (reassert their high school selves, buried deep somewhere in their frontal lobe), when discussing rock bands on internet message boards.

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    This is really reminiscent of exactly what the Tori Amos fan community went through some 15-ish years ago when she started getting increasingly and then definitively adult-contemporary and toothless on her studio work throughout the majority of the 2000s. It became kosher for both fans and naysayers of the new music to belittle and berate the other side - and while there's certainly valid points that can be made from either position, it's important to remember that music is completely subjective and even perhaps fluid. Artists go through all sorts of metamorphoses on their career arcs, and it's not all that surprising or even expected that every fan will remain along for the entire ride. Sometimes it's hard to accept that some people still like the ride. Sometimes it's even harder yet to take yourself off that ride.

    Is Cyr horrible? No, but it does seem largely effortless, boring, inoffensive and almost nothing at all like what one would expect from The Smashing Pumpkins branding. But that's not to say that someone out there doesn't find value in it. And not to bring it back to Tori, but she had a surprisingly solid album with Native Invader in 2017 so even though Cyr might be a misstep (or a series of them as the case may be), there's always the possibility that *ahem* William can again make a "quality" album in the future. There's really no harm or foul in realizing that at some point, it's time to just let it go. Complaining about quality or a change of directions, or making justifications for this and that won't really lead anywhere. If anything, it will just continue to eat at you and perhaps even make the older music that you do love become less appealing, effectively completely ruining the band for you.

    This isn't really directed at anyone, I'm just warning of how the Tori community got pretty toxic at one point in time and it's largely because of factions that resulted from very similar circumstances as this.

  11. #3911
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    Are there any established artists who have been around for at least 10-15 years who don't have a segment of their fan base say "x was their last good album" and "the new album sucks?"

    The Beekeeper was the only Tori album that I wasn't into. Everything else was good/great.

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    I think its good to have fans that call an artist out for having a shit album instead of being lap dogs and thinking everything is great. When I saw NIN fans on this board in 2013 saying how 'Everything' is an unheralded masterpiece and Hesitation Marks ranks up there with The Downward Spiral, it just made my eyes roll. Kinda like the people in this thread talking about how they like Cyr. Thats when you can spot the lap dogs. Some fans will just convince themselves everything is great no matter what and then get super defensive if someone calls them (or the artist) out. I became public enemy number 1 on this board around 2013/2014 for calling Hesitation Marks (and the subsequent tour) out for being weak efforts. Mike Patton is my favorite artist of all time and I will be the first one to admit he has put out some horrid self indulgent pieces of shit out *Weird Little Boy/Maldoror/Pranzo Oltranzista etc*. Some Billy diehards defend their leader no matter how bad his output gets.....Kind of like Morrissey diehards
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 12-02-2020 at 01:03 PM.

  13. #3913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    I think its good to have fans that call an artist out for having a shit album instead of being lap dogs and thinking everything is great. When I saw NIN fans on this board in 2013 saying how 'Everything' is an unheralded masterpiece and Hesitation Marks ranks up there with The Downward Spiral, it just made my eyes roll.
    I think that both The Downward Spiral and Hesitation Marks stand as some of NIN's best work, even if they are different. I love both Martin Scorsese's Casino and Hugo--different, but both great in their own right.

    But yeah, people should like what they like and not like what they don't, and then hopefully everyone can have a respectful dialog.
    Last edited by GulDukat; 12-02-2020 at 01:34 PM.

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    - This Time (contd.): Printing the mix to start the day, sounds lovely. Hard for him to put into words how hearing some of these mixes makes him feel: "On the one hand you have a band breaking up, that knows it's breaking up when the album and tour are finished. So there's this weird shadow or sadness over everything they were doing along with the fact that they're only 3/4 of the band that started the record. But through that, somehow they find new songs and a new, more modern approach to recording that, if this mix of This Time is any indication, means they could have readily transitioned into being a band that fit quite comfortably with the musical and cultural changes ahead."

    - In My Body: Masters are present, contents simple: bass, drums, guitars, and some double-tracked vocals. Idea is to maintain the integrity and feel of the original Machina 2 mix while opening up the clarity for more depth and spookiness.

    (^This is fucking awesome to read because IMB is maybe my favorite Machina track.)

    - Innosense: Showed off track sheet, guessing that means masters are present. That's Billy on piano.

    - Try Try Try (Machina II): Interesting mish-mash. Live take with Jimmy at the kit and Billy on bass. Acoustic doubles and electric guitar added shortly after, may 18, '99. Keyboards and vocals added july 28-29. Showed off track sheet so masters present.

    - Holy fucking shit he gave the viewers a little sneak view of how mixing works using In My Body on a live video. He played some of it. The guitar tracks sound so insanely clean, it's beautiful, it's so fucking beautiful my balls are on fire
    Last edited by Shadaloo; 12-08-2020 at 07:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    I think its good to have fans that call an artist out for having a shit album instead of being lap dogs and thinking everything is great. When I saw NIN fans on this board in 2013 saying how 'Everything' is an unheralded masterpiece and Hesitation Marks ranks up there with The Downward Spiral, it just made my eyes roll. Kinda like the people in this thread talking about how they like Cyr. Thats when you can spot the lap dogs. Some fans will just convince themselves everything is great no matter what and then get super defensive if someone calls them (or the artist) out. I became public enemy number 1 on this board around 2013/2014 for calling Hesitation Marks (and the subsequent tour) out for being weak efforts. Mike Patton is my favorite artist of all time and I will be the first one to admit he has put out some horrid self indulgent pieces of shit out *Weird Little Boy/Maldoror/Pranzo Oltranzista etc*. Some Billy diehards defend their leader no matter how bad his output gets.....Kind of like Morrissey diehards
    I'm not a huge Hesitation Marks fan either. I like a track here or there, like "In Two." I didn't mind "Everything," but it wasn't Trent's masterpiece. I wasn't a huge fan of Year Zero, Welcome Oblivion, or Hesitation Marks. They have some great tracks, but as whole feel a bit samey sounding and miss the chaos in Trent's production. I wouldn't call them embarrassing or cringe worthy. They're just too clean and controlled. I did love the Trilogy, but I would say Add Violence is my least favorite of the 3. Probably because it reminds me more of that HM/WO/YZ sound. "This Isn't The Place" is my favorite of Add Violence because you can really hear the raw emotion in Trent's voice. I love Not The Actual Events and Bad Witch for their chaos. They just have that raw emotion. The Trilogy has some of the best stuff Trent has done. Not The Actual Events is probably my favorite of the 3. "Burning Bright (Field On Fire)" is my favorite.
    Last edited by neorev; 12-02-2020 at 09:26 PM.

  17. #3917
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    NTAE is brilliant. Burning Bright is the best song Godflesh never wrote

    Just heard Billy boys interview with Howard Stern. Pure comedy when he talked about how his fanbase loves the new album and has given him nothing but great feedback lmao. End of the interview Billy boy goes off on how he hates Trent and basically calls him a phony and claims Trent was probably jealous of him LMFAO.....He also blamed Rose McGowan for terminating his friendship with Manson in the late 90s. Billy bot as delusional as ever

    I feel sorry for people who are still fans of this bald delusional fuck
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 12-02-2020 at 10:52 PM.

  18. #3918
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    https://streamable.com/xl8iv7

    A look at the In my Body studio mixing process.

    Folks this is the good shit, right here

  19. #3919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    NTAE is brilliant. Burning Bright is the best song Godflesh never wrote

    Just heard Billy boys interview with Howard Stern. Pure comedy when he talked about how his fanbase loves the new album and has given him nothing but great feedback lmao. End of the interview Billy boy goes off on how he hates Trent and basically calls him a phony and claims Trent was probably jealous of him LMFAO.....He also blamed Rose McGowan for terminating his friendship with Manson in the late 90s. Billy bot as delusional as ever

    I feel sorry for people who are still fans of this bald delusional fuck
    Billy wishes he was Trent Reznor. Billy is the biggest fucking phony there is. Sometimes I wish he would just stop talking because he sounds like a petty, jealous little bitch. He gets so jealous when other people are praised. He wanted to be Kurt Cobain so bad he had to fuck Courtney Love. He probably was jealous with Manson and McGowan. He seems to love to drive a wedge between talented/idolized people and their lovers. Wasn't Billy dating from Tila Tequila? Billy is quite the hypocrite.

  20. #3920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    NTAE is brilliant. Burning Bright is the best song Godflesh never wrote

    Just heard Billy boys interview with Howard Stern. Pure comedy when he talked about how his fanbase loves the new album and has given him nothing but great feedback lmao. End of the interview Billy boy goes off on how he hates Trent and basically calls him a phony and claims Trent was probably jealous of him LMFAO.....He also blamed Rose McGowan for terminating his friendship with Manson in the late 90s. Billy bot as delusional as ever

    I feel sorry for people who are still fans of this bald delusional fuck
    Is there a link or a quote of this Billy rant?
    As if I need another reason to hate Billy Corgan, lol

  21. #3921
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    Quote Originally Posted by poro765 View Post
    Is there a link or a quote of this Billy rant?
    As if I need another reason to hate Billy Corgan, lol
    I’ve been looking for this too, usually disses between 90s musicians go straight onto Alternative Nation, but nothing. Also the Howard Stern website recaps the interview and makes no mention of Trent, you’d think Howard Stern would want the controversy! Anyway why does Billy think endless acoustic performances with his horrible voice front and centre are the way to go?

  22. #3922
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    This is the only thing that I found: https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashingPum...ng_with_trent/

    If this quote is about 90s Trent then he's not far off. TR said similar things about himself too.
    Otherwise Billy mentioned TR/NIN in a positive way recently, e.g. when asked about RNRHOF on instagram.
    Last edited by fillow; 12-03-2020 at 02:51 AM.

  23. #3923
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    I remember reading an interview with Reznor a really long time where Reznor says he was talking to a then-girlfriend about how he didn’t have any close friends because he always has his guard up or something and kinda turns into a dick and when it’s time to exchange phone numbers he never does because it’s just meaningless pleasantries bullshit. And the gf said Jesus no wonder you don’t have any friends, and Reznor says yeah it’s too bad because he’d just met a guy he’d probably really get along with, but he blew it off. Who was that guy? Billy Corgan.

    It only stuck with me because it surprised me. I suspect a certain blonde someone caused a lot of issues.


    Until I actually hear the interview myself, I reserve all judgment. And maybe not even then. I don’t personally know either of these people.


    I liked the part of the Stern interview I heard where Billy talks about Eddie Van Halen.

    The other interesting thing about that interview is Howard. I’ve been listening to Howard since he was in Detroit. I’ve read his books. Howard is NOT an ass-kisser. Howard is never afraid of honesty. But he is a huge music fan. He loves SP, talks about how “Disarm” still brings him to tears.

    Yet Howard LOVES this new album, says it’s stupid to want the same stuff from the past over and over, and much prefers music in new directions. Howard is less of an “old fart” than most SP fans.
    Last edited by allegro; 12-03-2020 at 05:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    He wanted to be Kurt Cobain so bad he had to fuck Courtney Love.
    Whoa wait a second here ... Billy was with Courtney BEFORE Kurt. She broke up with Billy to date Kurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Add this song on to the many that Billy took into the studio and euthanized. What a beautiful song, but incredibly mediocre on the album.

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    I remember Trent throwing shade at Billy boy back in 07 about how the initial Pumpkins "reunion" was a cash grab (right on the money)

    Stern has been praising Trent almost every day for months. Probably desperate to get him on the show. Billy bot said specifically he and Trent "do not get along".....Then when Howard pushed him for details, he started backtracking and complaining about how the last time he did the show he said Eddie Vedder was a phony and he got decimated for it so he didn't wanna get into it. So he rambled for 5 minutes all this nonsensical stuff basically implying Trent was a phony....He was clearly scared to come out and outright diss Trent because he knew Trent and his dedicated guard dog fanbase (us) would tear into him like a pit bull going after prime rib

    Oh yeah he also said Chris Cornell was an asshole to him for no reason and he doesn't think Cornell killed himself and threw shade at Soundgarden saying that if Cornell did kill himself, it was probably because they were doing a "shitty theater tour" and were not nearly as big as they used to be. Bold words coming from a guy who couldnt crack the top 50 of the Billboard 200 and was playing half empty theaters on the last Pumpkins tour. King Animal charted at number 5 and the last SG tour was sold out every night
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 12-03-2020 at 06:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    ...

    is the Manson thread leaking.
    If not, I’ll take a leak on the Manson thread.

  28. #3928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    I remember Trent throwing shade at Billy boy back in 07 about how the initial Pumpkins "reunion" was a cash grab (right on the money)

    Stern has been praising Trent almost every day for months. Probably desperate to get him on the show. Billy bot said specifically he and Trent "do not get along".....Then when Howard pushed him for details, he started backtracking and complaining about how the last time he did the show he said Eddie Vedder was a phony and he got decimated for it so he didn't wanna get into it. So he rambled for 5 minutes all this nonsensical stuff basically implying Trent was a phony....He was clearly scared to come out and outright diss Trent because he knew Trent and his dedicated guard dog fanbase (us) would tear into him like a pit bull going after prime rib

    Oh yeah he also said Chris Cornell was an asshole to him for no reason and he doesn't think Cornell killed himself and threw shade at Soundgarden saying that if Cornell did kill himself, it was probably because they were doing a "shitty theater tour" and were not nearly as big as they used to be. Bold words coming from a guy who couldnt crack the top 50 of the Billboard 200 and was playing half empty theaters on the last Pumpkins tour. King Animal charted at number 5 and the last SG tour was sold out every night
    Dude, you are officially trolling in this thread. Could you make a separate “Billy Corgan sucks” tread or something, rather than shitting in here? Muchas gracias.

  29. #3929
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Whoa wait a second here ... Billy was with Courtney BEFORE Kurt. She broke up with Billy to date Kurt.
    Billy may have been involved with Love, but she had a crush on Kurt while they were together. Seems Billy was an a-hole and she left him and ended up with Kurt. Of course, you bet Billy was jealous. He seems obsessed with Kurt and his fame. I'm sure Courtney ending up with Kurt didn't help either. Now the guy he wishes he had the fame of is fucking his ex. Courtney and Kurt briefly met in 1990 before getting together in 1991. Billy was in between that. Her and Kurt weren't dating in 1990, but they met and wrestled the night they met. Kurt had a girlfriend at the time. It seems this was the beginning of her crush, but went on to meet and date Billy in 1991, then leave him and go date Kurt in 1991.

    Here's when Kurt and Courtney met in January 1990...
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-mo...-courtney-love

    And a quote from another article that shows Courtney always had a crush on him since...

    “I had a crush on Kurt, he was gorgeous, I mean he was beautiful, and enigmatic, and evasive. This was after Reading (Festival). But I still was dating and sleeping with Billy Corgan, but he kind of lost me at this moment. This wasn’t the moment that he
    specifically lost me, that would be about six to eight months later, but he kind of lost me at this moment.'”
    Last edited by neorev; 12-03-2020 at 08:46 PM.

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    Come on, dude, just stop. What is this, the National Enquirer? Who cares?

    If you hate Corgan SO much, you’re now just trolling in this thread. Definitive trolling.

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