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Thread: The Smashing Pumpkins

  1. #3661
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    Another 2 songs that plod around and go nowhere. Cold, boring, and soulless. 3-4 minutes of Billy barely trying. A meandering, directionless borefest. If only there were just a hint of emotion in these songs. The equivalent of watching paint dry.

    I get it, 2020 royally sucks ass.
    Wanna know what sucks more than 2020?
    These new songs from the Billy Corgan Experience.
    Last edited by neorev; 09-25-2020 at 02:43 PM.

  2. #3662
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    ...Show me on the doll where he hurt you?

    Dopamine Addict has too much fauxetry which clashes badly with the music, but I like Wrath. The melody's nice.

  3. #3663
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    Where is the new Muse album when you need to bash something...

  4. #3664
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    So, um, how much input did James and Jimmy have on Adore?

    Trent and Atticus do NIN mostly on their own as well... yet no one is complaining about Robin or Ilan not contributing much.

  5. #3665
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    So, um, how much input did James and Jimmy have on Adore?

    Trent and Atticus do NIN mostly on their own as well... yet no one is complaining about Robin or Ilan not contributing much.
    Jimmy wasn't in the band. James was doing his solo album at the time. He's all over adore though.

    Trent and Atticus ARE Nine Inch Nails. Everyone else are just touring members or guest contributors. Not the same.

  6. #3666
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    So, um, how much input did James and Jimmy have on Adore?

    Trent and Atticus do NIN mostly on their own as well... yet no one is complaining about Robin or Ilan not contributing much.
    Jimmy was booted from the band.
    James is all over Adore. So is D'Arcy. There's a whole making of Adore doc showing the 3 of them together working on the album. James even has a couple of his own vocal tracks recorded during the Adore sessions.






    Also, Nine Inch Nails was always mainly Trent, not a band, hence why it still always sounds like NIN. I also think Trent does better when he has more collaborators around him. SP was a band, not The Billy Corgan Experience, hence why Billy's solo music and this fake SP doesn't sound the same or as good without the original band. So you can't really compare the two. SP was 4 band members bouncing off each other. NIN is Trent (now Trent & Atticus) sometimes with guests. Zeitgeist was the last album that sounded like Billy was trying. I miss the musicianship that was in SP music.
    Last edited by neorev; 09-25-2020 at 06:45 PM.

  7. #3667
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    SP was a band in the sense that all the ideas that James, D'Arcy and Jimmy had were funneled and filtered through Billy. When it comes to songwriting, it's always been 90% Billy, with the others offering creative input. James made songwriting contributions which lessened more and more by the time Adore rolled around. Most of what he wrote from 1995-2000 was relegated to B-sides, the exceptions being Take Me Down and Go. Now we even know thanks to the leaks that the band tried out One And Two, which wound up on Iha's solo album Let It Come Down.

    You'll never find me saying that said creative input didn't help to make the band awesome, and there's a case to be made that the less of it there was, the more the magic went away.

  8. #3668
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    If Billy's hero Trump gets reelected, then you may see some happy songs from Billy......This guy was on Howard Stern last year with the entire band. They were standing there in silence for an hour like kidnap victims while Billy was rambling on about how he knows people who are half human and half lizard reptilians. Amazes me anyone takes this clownboy seriously anymore

  9. #3669
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    Mellon Collie, a band in a room. Billy needs the rest of the band. On his own, that intensity and emotion is just not there. Without James, none of the atmosphere is there. James is a big part of the SP sound. Just look at Zeitgeist. Billy had Jimmy, but was still missing something without James. It needs to be a band in a room actually playing and playing off each other.



    Again, I miss the musicianship.

  10. #3670
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    That intensity and emotion died when he stopped being an angry young man with something to prove with years of pent-up angst surrounded by emotional turmoil. You could get all four of the original members of the band back together in a room tomorrow and it wouldn't get Bill to stop putting out synthpop, and it wouldn't get him to stop writing his lyrics like a bargain basement Robert Frost.

    Age affects people differently. William Patrick Corgan views himself as a poet laureate, uses healing crystals and owns a tea shop. He wears who he was as a costume for greatest hits shows, and I don't mean any of that as derisive.

  11. #3671
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    Well, at least I still got the Deftones. They haven't missed a beat.

    Trent's pretty old too and still delivering it.

  12. #3672
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    Personally, I'd say it's a question of faith, or lack of it.

    I think one of the reasons Trent and Chino are capable of delivering what they do as opposed to Billy is that they're not afraid to look into the abyss a little. The Cold & Black & Infinite EP Trilogy was basically "What if everything we believe is a simulation, or at worst, bullshit and there's no reason for anything?" as a theme. Meanwhile, Chino's not afraid to keep shaking his fist at the sky with songs like Pompeji.

    Machina is kind of an album that follows someone who's faithless and winds up finding it in the end and it winds up saving him (or something). And by the time Mary Star Of The Sea came out, the guy was basically a born-again Christian (again, not being derisive when I say that).

    So many of Billy's best songs are about having a god complex or being heartbroken, the abuse he suffered as a kid, or the pain of growing up, or poisonous relationships, or struggling with self-hate, etc. and...I don't think he's capable of being that guy anymore. Like, Oceania was supposedly the result of a painful breakup and if he hadn't said as much I wouldn't have known.

    I don't think Billy wants to look into the abyss anymore...or he feels he doesn't need to.

  13. #3673
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    Someone please go push Billy into the abyss already so we can finally get a decent album

    Last edited by neorev; 09-27-2020 at 10:12 AM.

  14. #3674
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    The mix on these new recordings gives me a headache. Billy's vocals are piercing my skull.

  15. #3675
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    ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


  16. #3676
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    I AM WALKING ERECT NOW

  17. #3677
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    I am interested in seeing how the Machina remaster/re-release shapes up. I love HALF of Machina and I honestly never cared that much about a lot of the Machina II material. The production was likely a factor. I'm hoping that this new version that attempts to revive the originally intended double-album sequence and a hopefully clearer production produces a result that I can rediscover and fall in love with like so many others already have. This release also reminds me a lot of Tom Petty's Wildflowers, which is also getting the remastered treatment and being re-released as a double album, as was originally intended.

  18. #3678
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    1) Machina 2 = Good
    2) Cyr song = Eh, it's alright...
    3) Cartoon = Looks too pretentious
    4) Billy = wha happun?

  19. #3679
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    Imagine if Francis Ford Coppola was told that he had to re-cut The Godfather Parts I and II and make a single film that was 90 minutes from the two movies. That's what he go with the original Machina.

  20. #3680
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    Imagine if Francis Ford Coppola was told that he had to re-cut The Godfather Parts I and II and make a single film that was 90 minutes from the two movies. That's what he go with the original Machina.
    Godfather Part 1 and Godfather Part 2 are both great movies, and I'm sure would've been a great combined movie

    So Billy somehow took 2 great albums and turned it into 1 shitty album? Doubtful.
    I'm still expecting a bloated mess like the official release we got.

  21. #3681
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    Ive always been curious about what the intended order is. This set is and has been one of my most anticipated things for a long time. Granted bonus hearing some of these songs with better mixes as well (white spyder, real love, etc).

    Machina 2 is already amazing on it's own. Machina 1 is good too. Hearing them as a combined double album should be interesting. I do hope, though, that the sets include the originals too.

  22. #3682
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    Godfather Part 1 and Godfather Part 2 are both great movies, and I'm sure would've been a great combined movie

    So Billy somehow took 2 great albums and turned it into 1 shitty album? Doubtful.
    I'm still expecting a bloated mess like the official release we got.
    The Machina that was released 20 years was not what Billy had envisioned. I think that once people hear the album in full, front-to-back with all the songs from 1 and 2, the album will be better appreciated.

  23. #3683
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    The Machina that was released 20 years was not what Billy had envisioned. I think that once people hear the album in full, front-to-back with all the songs from 1 and 2, the album will be better appreciated.
    I hope so too, I've been waiting for this for 20 years. So I'll probably disappointed but it'll be interesting to hear and a must buy regardless

  24. #3684
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    Machina and Machina II are both amazing records.

  25. #3685
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    The Machina that was released 20 years was not what Billy had envisioned. I think that once people hear the album in full, front-to-back with all the songs from 1 and 2, the album will be better appreciated.
    The Billy of today fucking with the Machina songs of old is worrying
    I can't wait for The Everlasting Gaze with Billy's vocals turned up +10dbs and Heavy Metal Machine Version 3.1

    The only song I'm psyched to hear properly done is Home. Mostly, the drums just need slightly more presence/brightening.

  26. #3686
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    I'm convinced the complete Machina album will be like 3 discs. I'm ready for it.



    Slap my hype into high gear you unholy bald bastard

  27. #3687
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    I hope he doesn't fuck this up

  28. #3688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    I'm convinced the complete Machina album will be like 3 discs. I'm ready for it.



    Slap my hype into high gear you unholy bald bastard
    I'm thinking it'll be more. About as much as Mellon Collie. There's a lot of material. And that's assuming they don't include the original orders as well. I'm thinking about 5. 3-4 LP.

  29. #3689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piko View Post
    I'm thinking it'll be more. About as much as Mellon Collie. There's a lot of material. And that's assuming they don't include the original orders as well. I'm thinking about 5. 3-4 LP.
    Oh, I'm just talking about the core album. The Adore reissue had three bonus discs and the album in mono, I'd be surprised if the whole thing didn't turn out like:

    Machina recompiled: 3CDs
    Machina I original
    Machina II original: 2 CDs
    3-4 CDs of bonus material
    DVD

    I'm honestly predicting a $200 CD box, if not more. Lord knows about records.

  30. #3690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    I'm honestly predicting a $200 CD box, if not more. Lord knows about records.
    :: strokes original copy of machina on vinyl :: "it's ok, baby...you're not going anywhere, i swear...i'll find the money somehow"

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