Active Member
I don't know what you mean by posting this image: in any case it's in incredibly poor taste in the context of this conversation. Are you saying I should kill myself, or you want to kill yourself? I don't like where this is going.Originally Posted by richardp
Resident Asshole
Relax aggro, I personally didn't look at it as an attack on you but more along the lines of how stupid this conversation as become.
Active Member
Oh for fucks sake. Come off it.
Add Violins
Musically speaking, I think the song is a total banger. It's super catchy, and it's cool that someone is pursuing these kinds of heavier sounds again. That said, I kinda think the song could have benefited from some serious trimming. I almost want to try making my own "radio edit."
The song's "ironic fascism" gimmick does seem like a questionable choice in 2018. I wouldn't have thought twice about this back when I was a dumb kid in the late 90s when the notion of fascism felt like something I only encountered in history books and movies. But nowadays we've got this criminal president pushing for creepy Orwellian border walls and rushing to defend literal neo-nazis. So it just seems weird to put out this goofy cyberpunk song with all these ironic totalitarian slogans, as if this is nothing but a big campy joke. They're throwing immigrant children in cages, and here's Grimes like "Fascism, LOL! All hail the AI overlords!" I don't know, it just kinda rubs me the wrong way given what's going on right now, you know?
That said, I feel like it's a huge jump to completely denounce her as an artist/person or assume that she's an actual Trump supporter. Sometimes good people make mistakes, or they have certain weaknesses or blind spots in their political beliefs. I don't think that we should respond to that in the same way that we might respond to an actual rightwinger who's out their promoting an entire fucked up ideology. We shouldn't be so quick to throw people away. I realize that Grimes made those absurd anti-union statements about the Tesla workers, and that's super lame and disappointing, but still, that doesn't mean she's become an actual Trump supporter. I am an ultra militant union supporter and have been actively involved in multiple union campaigns over the years, and I can tell you that there are quite a lot of people out there who may have really good, progressive politics in general and yet they don't quite get it when it comes to unions. It's unfortunate, but it doesn't make them the same as Trump voters. Now we could just be like, "Fuck all these people," but I don't think that's good for solidarity or for the general sense of morale among the left. We gotta learn how to persuade people and reason with them. And even if they still don't get it, that sucks, but maybe let's not just throw them away when they've shown themselves to do a lot of good in the world.
Active Member
These are some good points @Mantra And your point that she probably thinks she's doing the right thing is well taken.
I don't think that Grimes is a Trump supporter - she probably likes Hillary and hates Bernie. My point is that Grimes has been engaging in Trump-style trolling for career purposes, and it's working. When she started dating Elon Musk - a very public billionaire (with colonialist family wealth from Africa) who financially supports the GOP - this is incompatible with her fighting any kind of power. She is power now, she's made that choice. She came out swinging in defence of him vs his workers. Tesla has been revealed to have safety issues https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...off-the-books/ for their workers it's a matter of life or death: Grimes publically and loudly came out on the side of the boss, not the workers. I'm prepared to cut people some slack, once they realize the error of their ways, I don't feel this applies here, not yet, not now. Sometimes defenses of Grimes feel a bit "white feminism" to me (a courtesy not extended to Azealia Banks). We're not Grimes fans because we think she's an innocent naive person singing nice songs about fairies: her whole cachet as an artist hinges on her having something insightful to say about the world and its workings, and that's why this all feels like such a betrayal to me. By her own previous standards I would think her on the side of the underdog and the powerless, I would think her sympathetic to those suffering right now; and yet she's chosen to align herself with the most powerful on the planet. Maybe she was just using resistance chic all along and never meant any of it: maybe she changed and got corrupted along the way. I'd like to believe in the latter. She reminds me right now of Leni Riefenstahl: made aesthetically beautiful movies glorifying the Nazis. It worked for her, she lived to the age of 101 and her films are still praised today. But she did a lot to help the Nazis and right now artists have a duty to fight Nazis not help them.
Last edited by aggroculture; 12-11-2018 at 07:24 AM.
Active Member
Stubby Member
Actually, Grimes supported Bernie Sanders during the last Democratic primaries, she even put his picture in the screens during her Coachella 2016 performance.
Throbbing Member
I must’ve missed the Trump/authoritarian angle. Not knowing anything about Grimes’ politics, I just took the whole thing to be a reference to AI, trans-humanism and Roko’s Basilisk.
Stubby Member
And I honestly think the song is only about this, but a lot of people seem to be reading it different for whatever reason (Elon).
Active Member
Yep, that's literally all the song is.
Throbbing Member
1. The song is a fictional sci-fi song that has nothing to do with real world politics or Elon Musk, and the fact that you've forced politics into it to justify your dislike of Grimes as an artist and human being just shows how hard you will dig to find a reason to dislike her.
2. Elon Musk is not a Republican. You disagree with him about union and business regulations, but that doesn't make him a republican, and he's openly stated that he is not, and even declined to be a Trump adviser because he disagreed with Trump's far right policies. But none of that even matters because this thread should have nothing to do with Musk either way, seeing how this song has literally nothing to do with any of it.
3. Grimes has made no statements at all about supporting Musk's political views, no statements supporting right wing policies, no statements defending right wing policies, and in fact, no political statements at all that are not left wing. She has even publicly stated that she disagrees with Musk's donations to the GOP (I feel like I have to add that he's donated just as much to democrats, because I'm sure you'll use that against her, even though they aren't her donations, she has publicly disagreed with them, and they happened before they dated).
4. What a fucking joke that a woman who exists in an industry separate from politics can be judged so hard because of what a man in her life has done. She's fought her whole career to be seen as an independent woman and have her values and accomplishments stand on their own, but I guess she's got a lot of work to do before she can be seen as an individual and an artist with her own strengths, faults, and opinions instead of being seen as an extension of what ever man she's dating.
Last edited by zecho; 12-11-2018 at 06:22 PM.
Dis-member
Well done, sir/ma’am.
Active Member
He's given a lot more money to Republicans.
https://mashable.com/article/elon-mu...o-republicans/
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...b0b15aba897481
And she defended his donations and union-busting
https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/...gop-donations/
https://www.nme.com/news/music/grime...ionise-2359276
This is a good piece breaking it down:
https://noisey.vice.com/en_ca/articl...apitalism-2018
Your arguments would work better if you got your facts straight. Also, I do not dislike "Grimes as an artist and human being" - I am Grimes fan (Art Angels is an incredible work) severely disappointed by her BS.
If you're a fan of an artist you owe it to at least understand what they're trying to do, not idolize them uncritically.
Throbbing Member
Okay, I'll start with Musk. He has not donated a lot more to Republicans, and here's a source that includes a graph of his donations over the years: https://qz.com/493152/elon-musks-pol...is-businesses/ He donates to whoever is in a position to help his company at the time. When the Democrats take over, he'll probably donate more to them again, as he has in the past.
Here are articles about other Musk politics: http://fortune.com/2017/06/01/elon-m...ris-agreement/ https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...-income-2017-2
Now, on to Grimes. She hasn't defended stopping unions, your articles even say that. She claims to want unions and to be against his donating to Republicans in your links, the only defense she offers is "it’s the price of doing business in america" which is more a criticism of the country than anything. I don't see the problem, and if two deleted tweets are all you can find, wouldn't you agree that she hasn't really done much at all?
So I would say I do have my facts straight, I just don't see her tweets saying the same thing I am, and saying that she supports unions and is against donating to Republicans (two things she has not done) to be becoming Trumpian or fake feminist or whatever. I still think you're judging someone who has done next to nothing politically based on something her boyfriend has done, and judging that boyfriend based on some of his political moves but not others. And hopefully you can tell how "bye bye Claire, you've been a disappointment" and "I can't take her seriously as an artist anymore" and misinterpreting the song itself as being political might not make you look like a fan. The day she starts defending abusers, donating to Republicans, and wearing a MAGA hat, I'll be with you, but as of right now you're way over reacting.
Dis-member
This thread reminds me of why I was happier when I was a teenager back in the 90’s, not having the Internet in the palm of my hands nor giving a shit about politics (not that I really give a shit now either).
Rock on Bill Clinton, with your sexy sax. \m/
Last edited by Krazy; 12-11-2018 at 09:00 PM.
Add Violins
@aggroculture ...Since you brought up Azealia Banks, I was wondering what're your thoughts on her Trump support? She had some pretty bad reasons for why she wanted Trump over Hillary, like: she wanted a big tax break, she agrees with his anti-immigration views, she's on the whole "anti-PC" bandwagon, etc.
I'm honestly not bringing this up in some hostile "oh yeah well what about THIS" sort of way. I'm just honestly curious about your thoughts on this, since you seemed a little defensive of her and yet you also said "I won't abide a Trumpian turn in any artist I'm a fan of." I didn't like Grimes' union statements, especially when she was like "the majority don't want a union" as if she's their fucking spokesperson or something. But I think Azealia's statements were like a hundred times more problematic. That said, I still like Azealia despite her Trump shit, I guess mainly because I think she's funny and can be incredibly insightful about a lot of things, even when she's simultaneously saying shit I disagree with.
Real Hippie Asshole
Maybe she broke up with him because she sees he's kind of a butt? Either way, all of our music collections would shrink dramatically if we stopped supporting artists who have/had opinions we disagree with. Roll your eyes and enjoy the tunes is my advice.
(Edit: Trent loves Apple and I'm pretty sure they run near slavery level factories in China. It's ok to put the political pitchforks down occasionally)
Last edited by Wolfkiller; 12-15-2018 at 10:00 PM.
Stubby Member
she/her/hers
^^^ what the fuck was that?
grimes has definitely lost me. between the absolutely unnecessary auto-tune, the fact that i can't tell if she's trolling the trolls or just trolling, and the very underwhelming production of the song in general, this is really turning me off. i'll stick with robyn.
Resident Asshole
GODDAMN do I hate the trend that started those awful nails...
oh, and talk about a boring song....
Active Member
I admit I was intrigued with We Appreciate Power. This is a 180 from that. I don't entirely dislike it, it's just quite disappointing that this is what we get almost a year after that. The sound is anything but violent and the lyrics are horrendously generic. Doesn't pique my interest.
Only By Night
The song is just so ok, it becomes boring very fast; not feeling either one that has been released so far. Visions is something I can sit back to and feels almost like a journey. Art Angels surprisingly does not hit me anymore like it used to, with the exception of Realiti. Hopefully these are just singles?
Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 09-06-2019 at 06:40 PM.
Throbbing Member
I hope this is just a bland single thrown out there to feed the lions
I was nobody. Nothing.
Damn, dude. I never pegged you for a Robyn Thicke fan������
Seriously, though: what is Robyn? Is it a grimes track I missed?
I was nobody. Nothing.
Idk. I think this new track is reasonable.
she/her/hers
Robyn is a singer who's been putting out music for like 25 years
here are three of my favorite songs/videos of hers. you'd probably most enjoy the one in the middle. she's collaborated with royksopp quite a bit and that song is my favorite thing they've done together.
Throbbing Member
After a little time, the i_o part seems really bland and harms the track, but Grimes vocals still have that certain quality that at least elevates the track to something interesting.
For all the shit she's been talking about having to make albums and just wanting to drop tracks randomly, this should really work better in an album.
I was nobody. Nothing.
I sort of doubt anything she does will ever top this one for me
I played this shit, literally, on repeat sometimes, when it first came out. This one, and Oblivion too: I discovered those tracks on YouTube, and listened to them like, several hundred times, before getting into the album.
Second album was cool, too, but, idk. Sometimes there's just this purity and simplicity to an artist's early work, and they never recapture that original vibe.
I HOPE this isn't the case for Grimes, but, if it is, hell: we certainly got a couple of great albums, at least.
Active Member
Grimes recently had been shitting on Art Angels and then releases this generic piece of bleh.
Stubby Member
New song is terrible IMO. I respect that she wants to try new things though, just not feeling it.
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