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  1. #1861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    She does seem to have issues. But I don't like how the story's being presented either. There was a lot of glossing over and oversimplification of a situation that seems fairly complicated. Somehow I suspect that over the years, she found herself in a situation she just couldn't handle.
    Her relationship with her family is messed up, yet there's no way to know why it is so. Her being looked down for being one of the white kids in a prominently black school (well, according to some reports once again) couldn't have been easy to handle either, especially when it comes from a community that you wholeheartedly support.
    I feel like her "white privilege" was the glass wall that kept her from really being part of a culture she admired, and that the only way to shatter that obstacle was to pretend she was born within that culture.
    That doesn't make it right in any way, but I don't agree with her being depicted as some sort of racial clown. I just think she fucked up. We all do, we usually are just lucky that our mistakes don't end up being so fucking topical. She managed to fuck up in a way that ties racial stereotypes, social justice activism, trans-anything, white privilege and culture appropriation. It's almost a full bingo card of FUBAR.
    Which is why the gleeful horror I see in the articles and comments is equally disturbing to me...
    She deliberately enrolled in a black school because she led them to believe she was black, because all of her artwork depicted African culture. Her brother said that when a white chick showed up, the school was shocked. She thought she might not be accepted if she was white, so she didn't tell them she wasn't black. Then, she SUED THE SCHOOL for discrimination when they didn't put her art in an exhibit, saying they picked black artists over her.

    I don't think her family caused this, she was just a normal white blonde person living in normal boring Montana and sometimes that's just not good enough for some people. She somehow became preoccupied with separating herself from her own natural appearance, because evidently her own existence was just too damned banal.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-17-2015 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #1862
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    She deliberately enrolled in a black school because she led them to believe she was black, because all of her artwork depicted African culture. Her brother said that when a white chick showed up, the school was shocked. She thought she might not be accepted if she was white, so she didn't tell them she wasn't black. Then, she SUED THE SCHOOL for discrimination when they didn't put her art in an exhibit, saying they picked black artists over her.
    Alright, the articles I read apparently simplified or ignored that part, I didn't know that.

  3. #1863
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    America has a football team called the Washington Redskins, in which a white owner has profited in the billions from the (blatantly racist) cultural appropriation of Native Americans since 1932.

    And for some reason we're up in arms over a white lady who pretended to be black? I don't even...
    Last edited by Presideo; 06-17-2015 at 03:45 PM.

  4. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presideo View Post
    America has a football team called the Washington Redskins, in which a white owner has profited in the billions from the (blatantly racist) cultural appropriation of Native Americans since 1932.

    And for some reason we're up in arms over a white lady who pretended to be black? I don't even...
    Well, but a LOT of organizations and individuals have been pushing very heavily to get rid of that team name for a very long time, it isn't like that's generally accepted as "okay." And, it's not the same thing, really, because the team (or its owner) isn't going around painting their faces brown and growing their hair out and wearing headbands and feathers and living on Indian Reservations and insisting that they all "identify as Red" and that their dads are "Red." Because that wouldn't be "racist," that would be really fucking weird. Which is what this woman is.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-17-2015 at 06:58 PM.

  5. #1865
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  6. #1866
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes View Post
    That's some handwaving mental gymnastics bullshit
    "race isn't a thing" a few sentences later: "people have suffered because of their race"

    he is also pretty damn random in when race is separate from ethnicity and when they blur together.

  7. #1867
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes View Post
    "Weird teenagers on Tumblr," LOL.

    That guy is brilliant.

    but, undoubtedly, a bunch of dingdongs still scratch their heads. I have them on "ignore."
    Last edited by allegro; 06-17-2015 at 07:11 PM.

  8. #1868
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    "race isn't a thing" a few sentences later "people have suffered because of their race"
    I took both of those statements to be shorthand for "race is not an a priori category, just a context-dependant idea" (which he reinforced SEVERAL times, quite brilliantly), and "because of racist assumptions about them", respectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    race is separate from ethnicity and [...] they blur together.
    You keep bringing this up, and yet it’s ultimately immaterial to the case. Dolezal is a fraud, nothing more complicated need be invoked to explain this behaviour.
    Last edited by botley; 06-17-2015 at 08:02 PM.

  9. #1869
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    You keep bringing this up and yet itís ultimately immaterial to the case. She is a fraud, nothing more complicated need be invoked to explain this behaviour.
    You may want to reread everything we discussed, as it certainly wasn't specific to this one person. You may also want to watch the video I just quoted because it's also not specific to one person.

    As for Rachel, I'm definitely skeptical of her claims. Her family's words are pretty damning. As is her history. However, there are important pieces missing for anyone to be able to make absolute statements about her own identity.

  10. #1870
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    You're waiting for more testimony from someone who has consistently been lying her head off? Re: this topic, we are currently in a Random General Headlines thread. Ideally it'd be split out into a "WTF IS THIS DOLEZAL NONSENSE" thread since it's her story that has been in the news. I don't think a Random General Treatises On Identity Politics thread would get as many posts or reads, but I'm not the one moderating things.

  11. #1871
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    I'd like to at least hear an in depth explanation from her. Dolezal very well may not identify as black and may be simply using it for the utility (mostly attention). Hell, it could be a mix of both.

    But again, her story is much less interesting to me than the entire concept of racial identity, especially when you reflect against other forms of trans-identity that are more culturally accepted. There are so many bars being defined for transracial to be "real" that would never be required for something like transgender... unless you were a religious right-winger. Things like how permanently you have altered your physical appearance to match your identity. Things like science/biology to back the reality. etc

    One great things is that this has caused quite a few people to stop and actually think about what race and ethnicity really are. What defines them. Where it comes from. How it does or doesn't alter a person. The complexities of them. How they are complex things. And that you cant make an instant judgement on someone based on their perceived race or ethnicity because of all these complexities. That's something that chips away at bigotry.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 06-17-2015 at 09:28 PM.

  12. #1872
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    I read something today where her biological brother speaks about their upbringing. They were brought up in a very strict religious household. They were homeschooled. They did blanket training. Their parents forced them to beat their adoptive siblings. So later, when she cut ties from her biological parents and adopted one of the younger ones, things started escalating.

    I'm trying to find this again. It absolutely wasn't like a credible source or anything. But really fucked up if accurate. I think this story will keep going deeper and deeper for a while.

  13. #1873
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynicmuse View Post
    Dude shot up a church in South Carolina during Wednesday night prayer meeting and killed at least 9 people. I hope that they catch this person quickly.
    Fixed that for ya.

  14. #1874
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    I read something today where her biological brother speaks about their upbringing. They were brought up in a very strict religious household. They were homeschooled. They did blanket training. Their parents forced them to beat their adoptive siblings. So later, when she cut ties from her biological parents and adopted one of the younger ones, things started escalating.

    I'm trying to find this again. It absolutely wasn't like a credible source or anything. But really fucked up if accurate. I think this story will keep going deeper and deeper for a while.
    A few of the links I posted earlier on this page interviews one of the brothers and he denies any physical abuse, says the one brother made it all up and later recanted his story. Also, Dolezal made up stories about having been whipped by a baboon whip while they lived in South Africa, except she and the family never lived in South Africa

  15. #1875
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    James Horner news :-( led me to this:

    Chinese company building $150million replica of Titanic which will even 'hit an iceberg' so tourists can RELIVE the tragedy
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peop...a-Titanic.html

    ...dafuq? :-)

  16. #1876
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  17. #1877
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    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-10341309.html

    So I wonder if all those feminists that were up in arms with him two weeks ago will apologize to him? If he get his job back? If this gets the same media coverage as the fake controversy? Somehow, I don't think so.

    In before, Seattle university actually made gender segregated classes for real and is hailed as progressive and liberal. I don't even know what is this shit anymore, can this story be any more pathetic?

  18. #1878
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    Quote Originally Posted by telee.kom View Post
    If he get his job back? If this gets the same media coverage as the fake controversy? Somehow, I don't think so.
    He resigned from an honorary position, it's not a job (I told you this already). Those pesky feminists, meanwhile, were all over the Internet joking about it, posting funny pictures. I think the only one who was all up-in-arms about it was YOU. Those man-eating feminist scientists are gonna find you and inject a disease into your dick, you'd better look out!! LOL LOL LOL. Meanwhile, this got exactly zero news coverage here in the U.S. Go figure. Sometimes the news in the U.K. is the equivalent of the National Enquirer.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-25-2015 at 02:19 PM.

  19. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    He resigned from an honorary position, it's not a job (I told you this already). You're such a funny troll, LOL. Those pesky feminists, meanwhile, were all over the Internet joking about it, posting funny pictures. I think the only one who was all up-in-arms about it was YOU. Those man-eating feminist scientists are gonna find you and inject a disease into your dick, you'd better look out!! LOL LOL LOL. Meanwhile, this got exactly zero news coverage here in the U.S. Go figure. Sometimes the news in the U.K. is the equivalent of the National Enquirer.
    If this got zero news coverage why did I read about it for two weeks in Guardian, New York Times, BBC, Independent or Jezzabel? I'm sorry I just can't really find the fun in bullying the guy to the point he lost his job (I absolutely don't care if it was honorary position or not) and reputation over some internet feminist mob with pitchforks. But I wasn't expecting anything else than downplaying it this way. Of course if he wasn't white old guy, that would be a different song, would it?

  20. #1880
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    Quote Originally Posted by telee.kom View Post
    If this got zero news coverage why did I read about it for two weeks in Guardian, New York Times, BBC, Independent or Jezzabel? I'm sorry I just can't really find the fun in bullying the guy to the point he lost his job (I absolutely don't care if it was honorary position or not) and reputation over some internet feminist mob with pitchforks. But I wasn't expecting anything else than downplaying it this way. Of course if he wasn't white old guy, that would be a different song, would it?
    He didn't LOSE his "job," he voluntarily resigned an honorary position; and he didn't have to do that, he could've said "fuck you, I'm not going anywhere." Who knows why he did it, I don't know. It got zero coverage in the U.S. other than the NY Times; Jezebel isn't "news coverage in the U.S." nor are any of the other sources you list. Yes, he was an "old guy" with "old views" and that's probably why people were laughing about it and not taking it very seriously and were posting funny photos. I wouldn't have known about it had you not posted it here, and then it was mostly TWITTER news here (which is no news). A guy with a fucking Nobel Prize did not get one single dent in his "reputation" over this shit. He isn't Bill Cosby for Christ sake. The only one getting all butt-hurt over this is YOU. You really need to take the stick out of your butt, dude, this is no big deal. See that "Sir" in his title? THAT MEANS HE'S BEEN KNIGHTED. BY THE QUEEN. The guy doesn't need you defending him, he'll be absolutely fine.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-25-2015 at 03:10 PM.

  21. #1881
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    A guy with a fucking Nobel Prize did not get one single dent in his "reputation" over this shit.
    You can't be serious about this. THIS will be all that your average Joe will ever knew about Tim Hunt. Just look at his wiki, this stupidity takes more space than all his scientific achievements. I agree that he gave up easily and shouldn't have done that, but I get that the pressure on him was pretty insane. Although you wouldn't have known, because you only read news outlets that are based in America, because there is no way to read anything else in USA.
    I'm defending him because it seems to me that no one else will. And your attitude is pretty fucking disgusting to be honest.

  22. #1882
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    Hey, anyone remember that time that accomplished ESA scientist wore a shirt (a rockabilly shirt made by his female friend) that made feminists mad and it totally didn't impact his achievements? It wasn't like he ended up crying on live TV while apologizing instead of enjoying the accomplishment of landing a fucking rover on Mars or anything like that.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 06-25-2015 at 03:34 PM.

  23. #1883
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    Quote Originally Posted by telee.kom View Post
    You can't be serious about this. THIS will be all that your average Joe will ever knew about Tim Hunt. Just look at his wiki, this stupidity takes more space than all his scientific achievements. I agree that he gave up easily and shouldn't have done that, but I get that the pressure on him was pretty insane. Although you wouldn't have known, because you only read news outlets that are based in America, because there is no way to read anything else in USA.
    I'm defending him because it seems to me that no one else will. And your attitude is pretty fucking disgusting to be honest.
    Discussion moved to here

  24. #1884
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    why did everyone just now notice the confederate flag after the church shooting?
    it's been in the news every day lately.

    It's been there for at least 150 years.

  25. #1885
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    Apple has noticed

    As usual, their reaction has been "Nuke from orbit".

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  27. #1887
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    WTF with Marc Maron Podcast : guest Barack Obama

    after listening to this, how anyone could think Obama is full of shit is beyond me. He ain't perfect but damn he is real as fuck..

    pretty impeccable insight into idealism in the face of reality and systems that exist. very holistic perspective on the corruption of cynicism when the nature of progress is misunderstood. ull forget its the president speaking and funny af to boot.


    Last edited by littlemonkey613; 06-27-2015 at 05:45 PM.

  28. #1888
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    This just in:

    NBC Cutting Ties to Donald Trump Over ‘Derogatory’ Remarks About Immigrants

    NBC is ending its long relationship with Donald Trump in the wake of the presidential hopeful’s recent comments about Mexican immigrants.

    NBC said it will no longer carry the Trump-produced Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants. Nor will he return to the long-running reality show “The Celebrity Apprentice” as host.

    “Due to the recent derogatory statements by Donald Trump regarding immigrants, NBCUniversal is ending its business relationship with Mr. Trump,” NBC said in a statement. “At NBC, respect and dignity for all people are cornerstones of our values.”

    NBC’s move comes on the heels of a fight that broke out last week between Trump and Univision. The Spanish-language giant pulled the plug on its planned telecast of the Miss USA pageant after Trump’s statements earlier this month about Mexican immigrants. In the news conference announcing his bid for the GOP presidential nomination, Trump asserted that many immigrants coming across the border are “rapists” and bringing in drugs.

  29. #1889
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    The fact that Trump hasn't been completely laughed out of the race by now is actually kind of legitimately terrifying. I'm trying to decide which reality is most horrifying.... Cruz, Huckabee, or Trump in the white house.

  30. #1890
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    For me it's a toss-up between Huckabee or Trump. I don't think either has an ice cube's chance in Hell of winning but Huckabee is legitimately nuts (like, seriously off his rocker insane) and Trump is...well, Trump. He's so utterly ridiculous calling him a cartoon character would be an understatement.

    Also, the fact Huckabee has come out as a transphobe just makes me hate him even more.

    Ultimately I don't think either will come close. I get the feeling it'll be Bush, but who knows at this point.

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