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  1. #3001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    Wait the guy is a firefighter, still doesn't know how hard it is to fake a fire ? And goes with booby-trapped gas cans ? What the fuck ?

  2. #3002
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    And it's actually pretty difficult to get on with FDNY. And once you actually get on, pay is decent, etc. What a fuck.

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    The thing that worries me most about Germany...is this repression of information...this sort of censorship...
    Its quite disturbing...coming from the UK i was amazed how scared the Germans were to put any sort of blame towards the migrants.
    it was like Soviet censorship..North Korean censorship...

    I was in Berlin this summer, one thing that worried me, was this sort of denialism, this white washing....shielding people from information...
    There had been a few incidents, a rape murder situation, and a few foiled terror attacks....
    but the German media would not under any circumstance relate it to the migrants....it was amazing to watch the deflection...

    even now 10 hours later, they wont say it was a terror attack.
    the French press instantly admitted it was a terror attack with Nice...the London soiler who got beheaded was instantly labelled a a terror attack.

    its this weird form of denialism in Germany its a bit creepy, i dont think people realise how bad it is..

  5. #3005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    the French press instantly admitted it was a terror attack with Nice...
    Not quite, no. It took a little while to realise it wasn't just the act of a madman. There were a lot of things that didn't quite make sense in the context of a terror attack. The press was actually prudent not getting ahead of themselve.

  6. #3006
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    @reznovka changed your mind yet, bud? Or should you write it off as collateral damage, necessary evil, etc.? Cuz' if you do think so, I'd like to see you explain it to the families of the victims.

    Unreal, people here are not phased, even joking about Germany's dementia, and understandably so, because not only Germany's migrant politic was borderline crazy, we were among the countries who got backhanded the most for not letting people in until someone from the EU proposes a feasible plan.

    People going crazy to prove/disprove that Trump is inadequate, meanwhile we have the biggest clowns here. Not just Germany, it's the utter failure of the EU - which people have been complaining about for years now, but seems like we are waiting for our own 9/11. Can't wait for Brexit going down as a very smart move in history, that's how useless this union is.

  7. #3007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    The thing that worries me most about Germany...is this repression of information...this sort of censorship...
    Its quite disturbing...coming from the UK i was amazed how scared the Germans were to put any sort of blame towards the migrants.
    it was like Soviet censorship..North Korean censorship...

    I was in Berlin this summer, one thing that worried me, was this sort of denialism, this white washing....shielding people from information...
    There had been a few incidents, a rape murder situation, and a few foiled terror attacks....
    but the German media would not under any circumstance relate it to the migrants....it was amazing to watch the deflection...

    even now 10 hours later, they wont say it was a terror attack.
    the French press instantly admitted it was a terror attack with Nice...the London soiler who got beheaded was instantly labelled a a terror attack.

    its this weird form of denialism in Germany its a bit creepy, i dont think people realise how bad it is..
    Indeed, and then people have the nerve to talk about fake news, and get surprised when the far right increases their numbers. What happened was only a matter of time really, in the last year there were about 4 terrorist attempts in Germany, which the secrets services and polices were able to prevent, but you can't stop them all. Also there was that guy that blew himself up in a festival. Who the fuck lets in 500,000 (or whatever number, i'm willing to bet its much more) undocumented people, alot of which are in their 16-20, without adult supervision, getting checks from the government, they're unemployable, don't speak german, an utterly lost generation. If this is bad now i think it will only get worst.

  8. #3008
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    In this case it's just journalistic integrity, they don't point the finger until the facts are clearly assembled.

    In this case you actually have some excellent means to prove this - firstly there was no ambiguity of language with the assassination of the Russian ambassador, as the killer clearly stated his aims.

    Secondly breitbart was running with the headline "truck ploughs into Christmas market" (or words to that effect, key word being truck rather than terrorist), and they can hardly be accused of being a party to a censorious liberal agenda

    However if you want a hysterical press that jumps to conclusions in order to throw red meat to the crowd, don't worry - the world is turning that way and supply will always cater to demand

  9. #3009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    The thing that worries me most about Germany...is this repression of information...this sort of censorship...
    Its quite disturbing...coming from the UK i was amazed how scared the Germans were to put any sort of blame towards the migrants.
    it was like Soviet censorship..North Korean censorship...

    I was in Berlin this summer, one thing that worried me, was this sort of denialism, this white washing....shielding people from information...
    There had been a few incidents, a rape murder situation, and a few foiled terror attacks....
    but the German media would not under any circumstance relate it to the migrants....it was amazing to watch the deflection...

    even now 10 hours later, they wont say it was a terror attack.
    the French press instantly admitted it was a terror attack with Nice...the London soiler who got beheaded was instantly labelled a a terror attack.

    its this weird form of denialism in Germany its a bit creepy, i dont think people realise how bad it is..
    There is nothing to admit here. There was a crime. There are officials examining the facts. They will do so and release their results to the press / public. Plain and simple. Tbh, I like the fact, that our media is not as hysterical as the British press.

    Also, what's wrong in not blaming a whole group of people for the crime(s) of an individual?

  10. #3010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    @reznovka changed your mind yet, bud? Or should you write it off as collateral damage, necessary evil, etc.? Cuz' if you do think so, I'd like to see you explain it to the families of the victims.

    Unreal, people here are not phased, even joking about Germany's dementia, and understandably so, because not only Germany's migrant politic was borderline crazy, we were among the countries who got backhanded the most for not letting people in until someone from the EU proposes a feasible plan.

    People going crazy to prove/disprove that Trump is inadequate, meanwhile we have the biggest clowns here. Not just Germany, it's the utter failure of the EU - which people have been complaining about for years now, but seems like we are waiting for our own 9/11. Can't wait for Brexit going down as a very smart move in history, that's how useless this union is.
    True, unsupervised immigration is not the optimal strategy. But what were the alternatives? Those people were at our door. They were fleeing from a failed state, from bombs, terror, war and death. So we let them in, knowing it wouldn't be without its problems, but still believing that it was the right thing to do. And you know what, I'm actually proud of the way, my country handled this situation, because we - for one - were not acting like inhuman assholes. Humanity rules here.

    Sooo... I'd say this union was useless would it have let thousands of people starve to death at its borders. That's not what my country did.

    Oh, and to be frank, I'd say you're the clown here for making cynical statements about people that just died a horrible death last night. Congratulations, asshole.

  11. #3011
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    Is there anyone from Western Europe who is capable of critical thinking? I am not looking for "fuck the migrants!!" comments, just someone who asked themselves that maybe, just maybe something is wrong. Basically people who are willing to admit they are not literal saints.
    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    True, unsupervised immigration is not the optimal strategy. But what were the alternatives? Those people were at our door. They were fleeing from a failed state, from bombs, terror, war and death. So we let them in, knowing it wouldn't be without its problems, but still believing that it was the right thing to do. And you know what, I'm actually proud of the way, my country handled this situation, because we - for one - were not acting like inhuman assholes. Humanity rules here.

    Sooo... I'd say this union was useless would it have let thousands of people starve to death at its borders. That's not what my country did.

    Oh, and to be frank, I'd say you're the clown here for making cynical statements about people that just died a horrible death last night. Congratulations, asshole.
    I made cynical statements about people like you; big difference. You know, the victims and their families actually payed the price for you and others not wanting to be "assholes". Ah, the sheer audacity you must have to call me a clown, when you just justified 12 people's death and then trying to cover yourself with their tragedy. Disgusting hypocrite, you are.

    As for your stance on the matter, the most I can tell you is that I heard you. I don't like how you desperately try to paint the picture black and white, so you can say you are basically Jesus incarnate, and you are an open minded person, but fuck every asshole who doesn't comply with your way of thinking, but hey, I would be defensive as well if there was a terror attack around me every ~4 months (+ the ones which were planned/stopped) and I had to pretend I'm not part of the problem.

  12. #3012
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    @Volband , the danger in that thinking is that it paints with a broad brush assuming most immigrants or refugees are capable of this, or discounts people who aren't refugees doing it (radicalized citizens from within).

    It's the same broad brush used by white supremacist here in the U.S. who point to crimes committed by blacks, so therefore all blacks are criminals and whites are superior.

    Fear is fear. It causes us to fight or question the world around us, and minds go beyond the boundaries of our innate humanity and decency or risking anything to help others. None of that is liberal or conservative; it's an instant self-preservation. But it is useless and illogical. We have already seen U.S. citizens here become radicalized and bomb or commit terrorist acts. There is no easy solution to avoiding acts of hate.

    The old adage "a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch" comes to mind.

    Hate and rejection only begets more hate and radicalization. There is NO way to avoid this except for countries to completely stay out of the fight against ISIS or against any Shiites, and of course not many countries are doing that.

    Nobody is "justifying" any acts of hate. Saving the lives of starving and dying people = justified deaths of victims of terrorists is illogical and unrelated emotional talk. The VAST majority of refugees are good people, who would never dream of doing something hateful and evil like that. They are escaping those very same atrocities. To accuse them of being responsible for this is fear-based. It's understandable, but its illogical and it is the same rhetoric used by the terrorists, but in reverse.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 12-20-2016 at 10:42 AM.

  13. #3013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    @reznovka changed your mind yet, bud? Or should you write it off as collateral damage, necessary evil, etc.? Cuz' if you do think so, I'd like to see you explain it to the families of the victims..
    Unless you're one of them, you probably shouldn't project your own politics onto their suffering, and dispense from assuming what's their view on the subject until they actually express it.

    Chances are they're too lost in grief and pain to actually have any concern about who did it and why at the moment anyway.

    You're free to have your own analysis of the situation and on the chain of events that led to this tragedy, but don't drag the actual victims into it under the guise of empathy.

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    @Volband the thing is, most of us aren't tolerating terrorist attacks as the price of being regarded as a nice tolerant liberal, we are doing pretty much all we can

    In the UK we have about two million muslims, what should we do? murdering or deporting them all would pretty much bankrupt us on logistics alone, not to mention sparking an inevitable backlash of terrorist attacks.

    Shutting the borders isn't a realistic option either - they will keep coming and there is always a way in. I am in a way actually looking forward to Trump and Le Pen' s premierships, as they will fail as spectacularly as the leftists and centrists have.

    It's all very well saying "send them back" or "close the border" - and people will lap it up. but is it actually achievable? The Soviet Union literally killed people who tried to escape, but it didn't stop people trying and succeeding. I don't see why the inverse seems much more plausible

    Do you think governments that bomb the living Shit out of Muslim countries are trying to suck up to Muslims? they are not. Germany is attempting to correct a shortfall in required labour & wrestling with an unprecedented wave of refugees attempting entry from every angle.

    Beware the siren song of populists... they will promise you exactly what you want, but can they deliver? historically, when has it ever worked.

    Western Europe has big problems, but those offering the short cut to a quick fix have a bad historical record, no recent experience of statecraft and no actual plans.

    What would you personally propose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    Unless you're one of them, you probably shouldn't project your own politics onto their suffering, and dispense from assuming what's their view on the subject until they actually express it.

    Chances are they're too lost in grief and pain to actually have any concern about who did it and why at the moment anyway.

    You're free to have your own analysis of the situation and on the chain of events that led to this tragedy, but don't drag the actual victims into it under the guise of empathy.
    I asked reznovka, because we were debating about this 6 months or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    @Volband, the danger in that thinking is that it paints with a broad brush assuming most immigrants or refugees are capable of this, or discounts people who aren't refugees doing it (radicalized citizens from within).

    It's the same broad brush used by white supremacist here in the U.S. who point to crimes committed by blacks, so therefore all blacks are criminals and whites are superior.

    Fear is fear. It causes us to fight or question the world around us, and minds go beyond the boundaries of our innate humanity and decency or risking anything to help others. None of that is liberal or conservative; it's an instant self-preservation. But it is useless and illogical. We have already seen U.S. citizens here become radicalized and bomb or commit terrorist acts. There is no easy solution to avoiding acts of hate.

    The old adage "a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch" comes to mind.

    Hate and rejection only begets more hate and radicalization. There is NO way to avoid this except for countries to completely stay out of the fight against ISIS or against any Shiites, and of course not many countries are doing that.

    Nobody is "justifying" any acts of hate. Saving the lives of starving and dying people = justified deaths of victims of terrorists is illogical and unrelated emotional talk. The VAST majority of refugees are good people, who would never dream of doing something hateful and evil like that. They are escaping those very same atrocities. To accuse them of being responsible for this is fear-based. It's understandable, but its illogical and it is the same rhetoric used by the terrorists, but in reverse.
    The question still stands: do you keep up with the same "everyone, come in!!!" mentality if it means that after X number of migrants Y number of your counrymen will die? And this is where the "IT'S THE RIGHT THING" or "BUT THEY ARE STARVING, MAN!!!" emotional stuff is the last I expect to hear. That is not argument, that is just an excuse to not think rationally.

    My answer is that seeing how first world countries in Europe suffered a ridiculous amount of loss from terror attacks in the last 2 years, something needs to be changed. Now, that is as far as I, as an individual, want politics to go at first. I am not saying the solution is this or that, I am saying that if something is proven to be disfunctional again and again, then for the love of God, at least sit down and discuss options for change.

    And no, "yo mang, but whatcha want them to do??!" is not the right answer. The reason me or you are not in that position to decide is because we are not ones who were elected to solve these issues. Me not being able to come up with an ultimate, everyone wins solution does not mean the presidents of France or Germany (and their government, and the EU as a whole) are beyond blame.

    One thing is sure, these countries won't stop allowing in more migrants, they are too deep in political poo to begin with, all right. But something has to give, and another possible option is being more strict with everyone. Continous surveillance, asking for IDs from people constantly, every event with X+ number of people being heavily guarded, etc. Of course, the problem with this that people will complain about their freedom and the annoyance such methods bring.
    I am sure there are still people who believe that protesting with not doing anything (or as they say it, "not giving in to terror") is the way to go, and with every terror attack, their belief of what they do is actually working will just grow. Which is a scary thought. A prime example of wanting something for nothing.

    @Sutekh correct me, but aren't most of those 2 million people are integrated ones? I don't know how much migrants have the UK let in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    My answer is that seeing how first world countries in Europe suffered a ridiculous amount of loss from terror attacks in the last 2 years, something needs to be changed.
    Well, of course, the U.S. lost more people in one terrorist attack in a single day than any country has lost in decades.

    And those guys got in here legally via visas but stayed here on expired visas. And, you know how big this country is and hard it is to locate people with expired visas (needle in the world's biggest haystack). There were all kinds of "signs" pointing to these guys doing some stupid shit, but hindsight is always 20/20. So they got through airport security, used jumbo jets fully-loaded with fuel as giant bombs, and killed 2,996 people and injured over 6,000 people.

    So, yes, how do we "avoid" this happening again?

    Answer: We can't.

    Yes, we should monitor EVERYBODY who comes into this country so we can keep track of visas; Polish, Greek, German, whomever. But, this would require a huge budget, and we're barely able to keep up with undocumented immigrants, already. And, we have had terrorist acts committed by American Citizens.

    Better security is the best answer, which is how we have been combating this problem so far. Our American post-9/11 reality is INSANE levels of security everywhere. We get frisked and wanded and our bags are checked at frigging RAVINIA, now, which is the summer home of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. We aren't allowed to bring even a purse to a Chicago Bears game, anymore (except about the size of a deck of cards). There are cops, barricades, guys with guns at pretty much all festivals (post-Boston Bombers).

    AND, even with ALL THAT, we STILL can't avoid assholes LIKE THIS.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 12-20-2016 at 01:04 PM.

  17. #3017
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    I'll take "Reasons why it's good to have Volband on Ignore" for $100.

    Do xenophobic douchebags realize their reaction is part of the terrorists plans? This is what they want us to do. Get scared and hateful. Paint with a wide brush, forcing those who just wanted the fuck out to either hate us more and join up with them or fuck it, just kill them if they don't.
    Last edited by Swykk; 12-20-2016 at 12:51 PM.

  18. #3018
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Well, of course, the U.S. lost more people in one terrorist attack in a single day than any country has lost in decades.

    And those guys got in here legally via visas but stayed here on expired visas. And, you know how big this country is and hard it is to locate people with expired visas (needle in the world's biggest haystack). There were all kinds of "signs" pointing to these guys doing some stupid shit, but hindsight is always 20/20. So they got through airport security, used jumbo jets fully-loaded with fuel as giant bombs, and killed 2,996 people and injured over 6,000 people.

    So, yes, how do we "avoid" this happening again?

    Answer: We can't.

    Yes, we should monitor EVERYBODY who comes into this country so we can keep track of visas; Polish, Greek, German, whomever. But, this would require a huge budget, and we're barely able to keep up with undocumented immigrants, already. And, we have had terrorist acts committed by American Citizens.

    Better security is the best answer, which is how we have been combating this problem so far. Our American post-9/11 reality is INSANE levels of security everywhere. We get frisked and wanded and our bags are checked at frigging RAVINIA, now, which is the summer home of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. We aren't allowed to bring even a purse to a Chicago Bears game, anymore (except about the size of a deck of cards). There are cops, barricades, guys with guns at pretty much all festivals (post-Boston Bombers).

    AND, even with ALL THAT, we STILL can't avoid assholes LIKE THIS.
    Well, I highly doubt anything close to the 9/11 events could happen again in the USA. Your biggest casualties are from madmen and the gun question, not terrorism. But look how many awfully similar terror attacks Europe suffered during a relatively short time. 9/11 was out of the blue, now we have what, the second truck plowing in 5 months?

    I just read that the Christmas fair in Dresden has been surrounded by concrete blocks. Now, that's the first step I'd like to see everywhere from now, until people come up with a better solution. It's ugly, it reminds you of danger, BUT it is there to save your life. Being afraid or cautious is not a stupid move; we have to admit eventually that the terrorists' plan is working to plant fear in us. But that's just a battle, not the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I have to work on letting go and that some things can't be fixed and don't deserve my time and effort, as it's not valued and doesn't end up mattering. I should instead spend this on more positive endeavors. I get so sucked into fixing things, often things that it ends up dragging me down into a very negative space. I have a bad habit of letting the wrong people affect me. So additionally, I need to give myself a break and be kinder to myself. I don't have the level of esteem and confidence most people have and I think this is what allows this negative cycle to continue. This entire month has been a terrible one as far as I've had numerous panic attacks, the most since 2010 when my ex cheated on me and filed for divorce.
    Lots to figure out here but I will continue to get better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I'll take "Reasons why it's good to have Volband on Ignore" for $100.
    So are you in love with me that you are still obsessed with me despite even the admins telling us to stfu, or what? You put me on ignore list for like 2 years now, yet you can't seem to leave me alone; at least ask me on a date already!

    Anyway, how about you take your own advice instead of just crying about stuff? Maybe if you'd look in the mirror, compared your words to your actions you'd be one step closer from getting away from your crippling depression. Right now, you are still mentally incapable of ignoring me, a complete stranger on the internet a continent away, but you wonder why your life sucks.

    Either put me off your ignore list and trash me "face to face" like others do, or grab a dictionary and look up the meaning of to ignore. I'm fucking tired how you are are crying and asking pity everywhere, but you always find the confidence to cover your eyes and ears and nag me.
    Last edited by Volband; 12-20-2016 at 03:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    Well, I highly doubt anything close to the 9/11 events could happen again in the USA.
    9/11 happened because that's exactly what the Americans were thinking: it will never happen here. That's how you let your guard down and you get sloppy. Magical thinking never worked for anyone.

    That will only forced terrorists to be more creative. But at least someone is doing something, right? *shrugs*

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    @Volband

    For what it's worth I don't think you're a racist or whatever & I think what you're asking needs palatable answers that the mainstream politicians and civilian left just don't really answer or really fully address

    However I tend to agree with what allegro is saying - we do basically monitor people as well as we can, there's very little more that could realistically be done.

    But there is the question of the refugee influx. It's already been shown that terrorists have snuck in with the flow. So it really comes down to this - expend a lot of money keeping them out, and let the innocent amongst them die, or accept the occasional attack as inevitable. A tough choice for a lot of people. It is worth remembering that the ISIS plan is to turn us against our resident Muslim populations and therefore make them more susceptible to radicalisation.

    The way I believe it will play out is that the current trend for international terrorism is a phase that will eventually subside (while Islam does have extremely martial aspects to it, I don't believe the religion inevitably leads to what is happening now & it is mostly motivated by geopolitical disagreements, conspiracy theories and political instability) - the islamic world is basically going through what Europe went through in the thirties and forties (extremes of the dominant ideologies - fascism and communism - wreaking havoc).

    However there is simply no way the man in the street will accept "just put up with the fear of death for a decade or two, we can't do any better" when there are populists offering to make it all go away

    The mainstream politicians have some serious soul searching and strategizing to do. To be honest I have no idea what they can do, short of turning draconian in a skilfully euphemised way.

    In my estimation they have two time limits ticking away - they have a slow burning candle whereby people will eventually get fed up and vote far right. But what could happen very quickly is a 9/11 type event, a mass poisoning or nuclear terrorism of some kind. That would send people to the far right very quickly

    ISIS is taking a serious pounding at the moment and one hopes that conflict and the past 18 years of the war on terror (it really started with the Cole and Kenyan embassy bombing) will have drained this era of most of its most dangerous and willing people.

    But who knows, perhaps the on going Arab/Israeli conflict and now the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria will create a new generation. Hopefully not, but the temptation is to ask why wouldn't it?

    How can we delegitimise the Islamist narrative... the other big question next to how to handle the refugee influx

    A dark period of history but the best we can do to get through it is keep our heads and think critically

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    No, @Volband, I assure you it's when people quote assholes like you on my ignore list that I unfortunately see what terrible things people like you write. I'm recommending others do the same in ignoring you to save them the hassle of trying to reason with a douche soaked brick wall. I write with honesty, I hide next to nothing, wearing my heart on my sleeve, so I'm sure you think you really zinged me by quoting my words from another thread but really, you're just proving my point. You're good at that. Trying to use my depression/anxiety against me is a low move but not an unexpected or effective one.

    No admin has ever told me to shut the fuck up to my knowledge but if one did, I'd probably show respect because I love this place. I think I've had one run in with one admin ever. I've got nothing against her now. It was a disagreement that had nothing to do with you.

    Keep helping terrorists with their agenda, though. It's going to work GREAT for us for the next four years (because it worked so well under GW)...
    Last edited by Swykk; 12-20-2016 at 06:39 PM.

  23. #3023
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    Random General Headlines

    Admins tell me to shut the fuck up and I'm an "admin." Just sayin.

    Free speech for all, IMO. Ignore lists are silly ways to not exercise self control. I'm a noninterventionist unless people are fucking up hard.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 12-20-2016 at 07:19 PM.

  24. #3024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    I just read that the Christmas fair in Dresden has been surrounded by concrete blocks. Now, that's the first step I'd like to see everywhere from now, until people come up with a better solution. It's ugly, it reminds you of danger, BUT it is there to save your life. Being afraid or cautious is not a stupid move; we have to admit eventually that the terrorists' plan is working to plant fear in us. But that's just a battle, not the war.
    That's pretty much what we are doing, here. High levels of security is the best current "answer" since we can't possibly control all human behavior. And, even that isn't totally secure, since suicide bombers can thwart security. We are no longer living in safe world. But we do the best we can to protect our citizens. I totally agree with what @Sutekh said about dark days of growing pains of Islam, and that this will phase out. Many experts have agreed. This is primarily a geopolitical problem, not really a religious problem.

  25. #3025
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    There is nothing to admit here. There was a crime. There are officials examining the facts. They will do so and release their results to the press / public. Plain and simple. Tbh, I like the fact, that our media is not as hysterical as the British press.

    Also, what's wrong in not blaming a whole group of people for the crime(s) of an individual?
    its not about blaming a whole group...at all...its the fact the German media are not being honest about what is happening.
    And its disturbing to see a democracy censor stuff, like the Cologne incident, the German media refused to cover it, they are actively whitewashing the negative aspects of the current situation.
    Germany let in 1 Million people last year...its a massive task to take on, there will be social consequences because of this
    Good and bad, but its not letting people have constructive conversations on how to improve the situation. Because its not telling them what is happening.
    Maybe Angela Merkel did fuck up by letting to many people in, in a short space of time, maybe she should have taken in 500.000 instead of a million.....it seems all the media outlets are in bed with the government....
    Even worse so than in the UK or US.......
    it is repressing information. Thats the disturbing thing here...
    taking 16 hours to admit...it was a terror attack is the sort of thing im talking about.

    The British press can be hysterical and vile...but at least they dont go around pretending everything is fine. They actively question things...which is not allowed in Germany at the moment...

  26. #3026
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    The U.S. doesn't "automatically" say it's a "terrorist attack," either, until it absolutely gets confirmation that they absolutely know it was a terrorist attack.

    We don't consider that repressing information; we consider it waiting to put out the CORRECT information, to avoid hysteria or hyperbole and misinformation, etc.

    We have had cases, in the past, where it was ASSUMED to be a terrorist act and then it ended up that it wasn't.

    Sometimes, letting information out while you are STILL LOOKING FOR THE CULPRIT can HURT the investigation.

    You have to think of all of these things.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 12-20-2016 at 07:35 PM.

  27. #3027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    its not about blaming a whole group...at all...its the fact the German media are not being honest about what is happening.
    And its disturbing to see a democracy censor stuff, like the Cologne incident, the German media refused to cover it, they are actively whitewashing the negative aspects of the current situation.
    Germany let in 1 Million people last year...its a massive task to take on, there will be social consequences because of this
    Good and bad, but its not letting people have constructive conversations on how to improve the situation. Because its not telling them what is happening.
    Maybe Angela Merkel did fuck up by letting to many people in, in a short space of time, maybe she should have taken in 500.000 instead of a million.....it seems all the media outlets are in bed with the government....
    Even worse so than in the UK or US.......
    it is repressing information. Thats the disturbing thing here...
    taking 16 hours to admit...it was a terror attack is the sort of thing im talking about.

    The British press can be hysterical and vile...but at least they dont go around pretending everything is fine. They actively question things...which is not allowed in Germany at the moment...
    Are they actually doing that though, or do they just wait until the full details are available? are they still denying it was a terror attack now? do you read the German press or is this something you heard?

    A 16 hour delay to me seems like the gap between the evening news and the morning headlines. even breitbart went with "Truck ploughs into market" until about midnight

  28. #3028
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodi View Post
    9/11 happened because that's exactly what the Americans were thinking: it will never happen here. That's how you let your guard down and you get sloppy. Magical thinking never worked for anyone.
    Sorry, should've specified what I meant: it could not happen again, because it put the USA on their feet and upped their security big time.

    It would be "hilarious" if we'd come full circle and the excuse for the sloppy anti-errorist work would be explained by the sheer number of migrants and how hard it is to scan them all thoroughly. But let's not paint the devil on the wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    A dark period of history but the best we can do to get through it is keep our heads and think critically
    Many people rather recite their leftist or rightist mantra day and night than to think critically. They treat leftism or rightism like some religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    No, @Volband, I assure you it's when people quote assholes like you on my ignore list that I unfortunately see what terrible things people like you write. I'm recommending others do the same in ignoring you to save them the hassle of trying to reason with a douche soaked brick wall. I write with honesty, I hide next to nothing, wearing my heart on my sleeve, so I'm sure you think you really zinged me by quoting my words from another thread but really, you're just proving my point. You're good at that. Trying to use my depression/anxiety against me is a low move but not an unexpected or effective one.

    No admin has ever told me to shut the fuck up to my knowledge but if one did, I'd probably show respect because I love this place. I think I've had one run in with one admin ever. I've got nothing against her now. It was a disagreement that had nothing to do with you.

    Keep helping terrorists with their agenda, though. It's going to work GREAT for us for the next four years (because it worked so well under GW)...
    I won't go through posts to find that one, but we were told that if we are ignoring each other, then stick to it. But I have no problem with you directly talking to me, shows some spine finally!

    As for others, they are probbaly grown ass people too, so they are perfectly capable of deciding who and what to pay attention to. You see, one of the differences between us is that even if I believe that you are a miserable piece of entity, I am not campaigning against you, because I really do not care who talks to you or who likes you. I respected the fact that you announced that I am ignored and did not ever quote you unless you started your bullshit nabbing again.

    Was it a low move? Maybe, but you were on my back for like 2 years now on and off with your childish attitude, while I knew the whole time (since I visited that topic occasionally) you were moaning and seeking attention without actually getting anywhere. You have 99 problems dude, but a Volband should not be one.

    And how exactly am I helping terrorists? Supporting concrete bricks around big fairs? Wanting the EU to stricken on their migrant politics? Demanding the EU to at least show initiative in the war aggainst terrorism? - like it's cool and all we are bombing shit far away, but it would be cool if we had some proper security back home.

    Spoiler alert: terrorists are winning their battles here, everything they do accomplishes their plans. People moving to the right or far right (just fyi: our current government you people hate is only a rightist one, we have an actual and more and more popular far right as well), people losing their sense of security. It's all happening, and good luck convincing someone who witnessed dozens of people getting plowed to stop being afraid, becaufe if they do so, then they are just helping the terrorists.

    Ps.: fuck you and have a merry christmas!
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Admins tell me to shut the fuck up and I'm an "admin." Just sayin.

    Free speech for all, IMO. Ignore lists are silly ways to not exercise self control. I'm a noninterventionist unless people are fucking up hard.
    Sure, I am all for free speech, but firing shots while hiding behind your ignore list is retarded. Either come out and play or enjoy your safety. Like, I could call you all kinds of a moron now, quicly ignore you and go on with my day, reminding people every 1-3 months that I bet you are still a moron. Sounds lame, isn't it?

  29. #3029
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    New Gallup annual survey listing top priorities for American. Economy, terrorism, immigration, Government tops the list.
    Environment, income inequality, education are at the bottom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    its not about blaming a whole group...at all...its the fact the German media are not being honest about what is happening.
    And its disturbing to see a democracy censor stuff, like the Cologne incident, the German media refused to cover it, they are actively whitewashing the negative aspects of the current situation.
    I'm a teacher in politics and history, so part of my job is to read newspapers every day. All kinds of. And I'm sorry, but what you're saying is simply not true. There certainly is no censorship AT ALL. Like, there's not even "THE media". You know, THE media consists of many many outlets and newspapers, left, liberal, conservative, etc. They all have different voices and opinions. And that diversity clearly is at display in this debate.

    So why did it take a while for the media to report on those incidents on new years day? Because the police fucked up and didn't pass information concerning this incident as quickly as usual. They were in over their heads with what was happening. When it became clear what happened that night, it got a LOT of coverage, actually, and it spiked a new discussion about immigration and our laws and stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    Germany let in 1 Million people last year...its a massive task to take on, there will be social consequences because of this
    Good and bad, but its not letting people have constructive conversations on how to improve the situation. Because its not telling them what is happening.
    This, also, is not true. Example: A few weeks ago a young woman was raped and murdered by a refugee. It was all over the news and spiked - again - a discussion about the refugee-"crisis".

    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    Maybe Angela Merkel did fuck up by letting to many people in, in a short space of time, maybe she should have taken in 500.000 instead of a million.....it seems all the media outlets are in bed with the government....
    Even worse so than in the UK or US.......
    it is repressing information. Thats the disturbing thing here...
    taking 16 hours to admit...it was a terror attack is the sort of thing im talking about.
    Cologne was no terrorist attack for one. Also, 1.000.000 is too big a number, it's more like 700.000 over the course of a year.

    Again, what did anyone expect? That we're letting them in and hope there'll be no consequences or problems? Do you really think our goverment to be that naive? It's rather a challenge for our society to get this thing done and not let fear take us over as soon as someone from that group of people does something bad. Germans also do bad stuff, you know.

    To say "this terror attack wouldn't have happened would you not have let them in" is a dangerous argument to make, because that way, you could also argue that "had that person never been born, he couldn't have done such and such". This argument follows a stange and evil logic.
    Because in the end it's an argument against humanity.
    Last edited by r_z; 12-21-2016 at 12:42 PM.

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