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  1. #4501
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    I think Trumpy doesn't know how cowardly a lot of his fanbase is. Most of them just want to go to the rallies, wear the hats, post the memes, and spew hatred from afar. They talk a good game, but most of them would probably shit themselves if an actual civil war broke out. Just look at how his followers handled January 6th. If they really were as tough as they claim to be, they would have succeeded.
    I hope to god you're right.
    When we speak of a new Civil War, in my mind, there's a 0% chance of it being between a coalition of states, BECAUSE, check this out:

    Let's look at our HARDCORE conservative states.
    According to 2022 polling, Mississippi is the most conservative state, with 50% of people identifying as conservative. Then you've got Wyoming tied with Alabama at like 46%.
    Then there's WV, at 45%, followed by SD, TN, LO, OK, AR, UT, SC, MO: in THOSE states, you're looking at low 40s.

    Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Montana, for instance, don't make the top ten.

    "Republican strongholds" like Texas and Florida, for instance, are numbers 23 and 26 in terms of self identified conservatives.

    HERE'S the other thing, though, looking at recent poll numbers. Anaheim, CA,
    is one of the most conservative CITIES in the US. Same with Colorado Springs and Aurora, Colorado, for some fucking reason?

    SO.

    The idea of Civil War 2: this would just be fucking mass chaos and mass civil unrest, and, perhaps, Civil WARS in states.

    We could potentially be looking at LA vs Anaheim and Dallas vs Arlington, etc, I think.

    I think we'd be seeing things more akin to terrorism, perpetuated by militias and the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers and their ilk, vs, you know, like the New Weather Underground or whatever.

  2. #4502
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    I hope to god you're right.
    When we speak of a new Civil War, in my mind, there's a 0% chance of it being between a coalition of states, BECAUSE, check this out:

    Let's look at our HARDCORE conservative states.
    According to 2022 polling, Mississippi is the most conservative state, with 50% of people identifying as conservative. Then you've got Wyoming tied with Alabama at like 46%.
    Then there's WV, at 45%, followed by SD, TN, LO, OK, AR, UT, SC, MO: in THOSE states, you're looking at low 40s.

    Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Montana, for instance, don't make the top ten.

    "Republican strongholds" like Texas and Florida, for instance, are numbers 23 and 26 in terms of self identified conservatives.
    But look at the other side of that:

    Mississippi: 50% liberal

    Then you've got Wyoming tied with Alabama at like 54% liberal

    Then there's WV, at 55% liberal, followed by SD, TN, LO, OK, AR, UT, SC, MO: in THOSE states, you're looking at low 60s liberal.
    And that’s based on POLLING data, which I haven’t trusted.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-16-2022 at 04:12 PM.

  3. #4503
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    But look at the other side of that:



    And that’s based on POLLING data, which I haven’t trusted.
    I feel you, 100%. And we can obviously invoke the Mark Twain quote about lies.

    But either way, it still comes down to the same thing, right?

    So I feel like my point still stands. I don't think there's much possibility of a civil war like the first one.

    I think we'd be looking at something more like unprecedented social unrest, featuring what we call domestic terrorism.

    It's more about regions than states at this point.
    Last edited by elevenism; 09-16-2022 at 04:41 PM.

  4. #4504
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    They get around that by convincing themselves the majority of the military will side with them.
    I hope they find out the hard way... the way they've turned Ashli Babbit into a martyr, when really she was just a deluded domestic terrorist... The truth is, none of us needed to know her name, and it is astounding that she was the only one killed when you violent motherfuckers tried to raid the capitol building... we literally blew up a hijacked plane full of poor, innocent people who were just trying to take a flight to their desired destination, because they were aiming it at the capitol. Fuck these people, and fuck every single politician who is wondering if they should decry it already.

  5. #4505
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    They get around that by convincing themselves the majority of the military will side with them.
    Some of them? Sure. Go into almost any area with a television and itís on Fox News. I donít know why itís like that but itís been that way for a long time.

    That said a lot of them take the General Milley approach.

  6. #4506
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    Some of them? Sure. Go into almost any area with a television and it’s on Fox News. I don’t know why it’s like that but it’s been that way for a long time.
    Simple: it's propaganda. It gives soldiers something to be angry about.

  7. #4507
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    more the old guard / retirees who come on base. the younger set (and I'm including myself even though I'm only young in spirit) see through the bull shit. Mostly. The guy I work with who moved to Florida because "he likes what DeSantis is doing" was also military so there's some who are just broken in their mind.

  8. #4508
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    more the old guard / retirees who come on base. the younger set (and I'm including myself even though I'm only young in spirit) see through the bull shit. Mostly. The guy I work with who moved to Florida because "he likes what DeSantis is doing" was also military so there's some who are just broken in their mind.
    Ok. I was gonna make a joke here: (but desantorum and Ted Cruz are great! They're just like trump, but with more secret buttsex and less idiocy)!

    But so, jokes aside: you feel that young recruits AREN'T falling for the nonsense?

    Edit: I'd say more, but last nite was.freeky, and I've got to wash the DeSantorum out of my sheets.

  9. #4509
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    R/Veterans is more blue than red, really. That’s not saying a lot because of sample size but I do notice that the conversations have been trending that way for awhile now. There are still some who feel the need to complain about the libtards but they’re usually confronted with stuff like the PACT Act voting and how the Republicans are consistently voting against the veterans best interest.

    Like Rick Scott and his “vote on everything every five years” bullshit. That’s a really good way to get rid of Medicare and, wouldn’t you know it, veterans benefits. I’m filing for an increase in my disability because it’s getting to where I can barely walk some days and if that’s taken away what then? Social secur…oh wait they want to get rid of that as well!

    and yet there are some who see that and still think “these are my guys”.

  10. #4510
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    Well I'd call that a piece of good news from the front lines of the social media wars, ain't it, @allegate r?

  11. #4511
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    I don't understand how any vet is on the GOP side of shit at this point, when all they do is basically either ignore them or refuse to pass legislation that would actually do a goddamn thing to help them. Republicans do not like or appreciate you, they just lie and pretend to

  12. #4512
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    100% agree. you have to have so much hate and hurt to see their policies as 'good'.

    It's especially concerning because there's the whole "commander-in-chief" thing and it's supposed to be person agnostic. Combine that with the "will not act on an illegal order" and it should be pretty cut and dry. But people aren't rational beings and are actually kind of stupid.

    Which reminds me of a funny story. We were waiting in line to check out at the grocery store and the lady in front of us was having a conversation with the checker about her son and his ASVAB score and military ambitions. Well, "ambitions" as you will soon see. Anyway, she was going on about how proud she was and my wife and I were just kind of rolling our eyes because there are no rose-colored glasses in this family. She gets to a point where she says her son was going into the infantry and how exciting that would be and my son, doing his best "Kids Say the Darndest Things" impression, says that "he must not be very smart then because that's a low score on the test". I'm not recalling it 100% but you get the gist.

    That lady shut right up turned at least six shades of red and stormed out.

    The thing I would say about it is that at least you can be smart in the military, unlike the police force.

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  15. #4515
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    We have Chicago friends who just got a second home in Fort Myers because her elderly Dad moved down there after her Mom died. They have a 2-yr-old and an American Bulldog and they’d JUST driven down there and Ian was on its way.

    A bunch of us were texting them, asking if they were leaving. He told me they weren’t notified that they were in the evacuation area, they’d posted photos on IG of how they’d put up metal hurricane shutters.

    This morning, my Chicago gf who now lives south of Myrtle Beach said ARE THEY NUTS?!?! THEY SHOULD HAVE LEFT?!?

    Last I heard from him is 8:45 this morning my time.

    People just don’t take this shit seriously enough, or they just don’t understand. I’m freaking out, hoping they all didn’t drown.

    Meanwhile, Midwest Twitter is like:

    “I’ll take the worst snow storm over this shit. We just stay inside with hot chocolate and alcohol, and maybe the worst that happens is we get out our generator.”


    Jesus Christ: Jim on the Weather Channel trying to stand up in Punta Gorda in 110mph wind.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-28-2022 at 07:20 PM.

  16. #4516
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    that's an incredible amount of water.

  17. #4517
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    Houses are off their foundations and floating away. Up past the 2nd story of buildings in Fort Myers.

  18. #4518
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    My sister lives right near where the storm made landfall. Last update was about four hours ago. Her house is fairly reinforced with hurricane proof windows and doors thankfully. She said the roof lost most of its shingles and there's tons of trees down. She lives far enough inland that I don't think she has to worry about flooding too much, but it's still going to be a huge mess when it's all over.

  19. #4519
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    I honestly did not see this coming. Who told the Republicans to show their whole ass before the election? Is it because they know they have the votes counters on their side and don't need to worry about lying anymore?
    Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), a Florida native and lawmaker, voted against a measure to free up millions of dollars in disaster relief for the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

    Gaetz was one of several House Republicans on Friday who voted against a resolution to allow FEMA to use up to $15 million from the Disaster Relief Fund, Newsweek reported.

    The bill passed in both the House and the Senate, and it awaits President Joe Biden’s approval.

  20. #4520
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  21. #4521
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    Alex Jones ordered to pay $965M US for false claims about Sandy Hook massacre

    sure, nothing more than a headline right now but...

  22. #4522
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    So, liek...

    Kanye West.

    He's going "DEATHCON 3" against...the Jews.

    I think that dude is about to run out of both "pop star" and "mental health" passes.

  23. #4523
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
    Alex Jones ordered to pay $965M US for false claims about Sandy Hook massacre

    sure, nothing more than a headline right now but...
    jesus fuck.

    i'm sorry, and i know from experience that my opinion of Alex (who spent his formative years a few miles from where i spent my formative years) isn't welcome, here.

    But, here's the thing: alex didn't create those theories.
    He reported on them.
    He also APOLOGIZED for the sandy hook thing YEARS ago.

    He's already been utterly deplatformed. So now, what...we wanna make it so he can't buy food?

    I understand suing him, to make an EXAMPLE, but good lord.
    These numbers are getting kinda high.

    Edit: i'm gonna go out on a limb. fuck it.
    Speech is free, as long as people agree with the majority, i guess.
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-15-2022 at 05:39 PM.

  24. #4524
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    He's paying for his stupidity...

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    At the risk of being, well, wrong. I think I get where @elevenism is coming from here. Now, I haven't followed the whole Alex/Sandy Hook trial or anything. But Alex Jones is basically an entertainer. And one that has already been kicked off every major platform except the one he built himself. I guess I don't quite understand how this sort of thing doesn't fall under free speech. Don't get me wrong, I think his Sandy Hook take was awful in just about every way, I'm just wondering if the punishment fits the crime is all. I mean, will they start coming after my crazy uncle when he rants about vaccine conspiracies after a few drinks? Where does it end once we start heading down the road of playing with free speech.

    Am I the only one that actually LIKES when these assholes are allowed to spew their opinions everywhere? At least then we know who the nutjobs are, right? Not to mention, this sort of thing actually REINFORCES many of Jones's crazy conspiracy theories about the government being out to silence him. AND it further ostracizes his listeners and pushes them further into an echo chamber of information bubble. What do we think is going to grow inside that bubble? Nothing good.

    Also, for the record, I've never voted republican once in my life. But free speech IS important to me. Even when it is absurdly wrong and false, it still needs to be permitted doesn't it? People should be allowed to be idiots, is basically what I'm saying. But, again, maybe I'm wrong. What am I missing?

    Edit: Just saw the Kanye thing. I think to be fair that if we are going to ruin Alex's life we should also ruin Kanye's.

  26. #4526
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    Free speech is only free as long as it doesn't hurt someone. Alex Jones' hateful lies were directly responsible for a huge amount of harassment targeting families who were grieving for something no one should ever have to grieve. Alex Jones hurt people. Fuck him.

    Defamation has never been legal, or part of free speech.
    Last edited by otnavuskire; 10-12-2022 at 07:07 PM.

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    Alex Jones is a stupid fuckwit that deserves anything and everything coming to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otnavuskire View Post
    Free speech is only free as long as it doesn't hurt someone. Alex Jones' hateful lies were directly responsible for a huge amount of harassment targeting families who were grieving for something no one should ever have to grieve. Alex Jones hurt people. Fuck him.

    Defamation has never been legal, or part of free speech.
    Fair enough. I'm not out here saying he was right in his Sandy Hook conspiracy. Obviously, that was bottom of the barrel stupidity. I'm also no legal scholar, so I'm just genuinely asking about this stuff.

    But "free speech is only free as long as it doesn't hurt someone" is pretty vague to me. Did he call for his listeners to commit violence? If so, then yes, that falls outside free speech. And, furthermore, if one of his listener listened to his lies and took him seriously and then decided to go harass those poor parents, isn't it the listener who is committing the crime of harassment in that case?

    Again, I'm new to this case, idk the particulars. I'm not asking if Jones was morally right here, he obviously wasn't. I'm just asking how lying on an entertainment program can be grounds for a billion dollars owed in court.

  29. #4529
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post
    Fair enough. I'm not out here saying he was right in his Sandy Hook conspiracy. Obviously, that was bottom of the barrel stupidity. I'm also no legal scholar, so I'm just genuinely asking about this stuff.

    But "free speech is only free as long as it doesn't hurt someone" is pretty vague to me. Did he call for his listeners to commit violence? If so, then yes, that falls outside free speech. And, furthermore, if one of his listener listened to his lies and took him seriously and then decided to go harass those poor parents, isn't it the listener who is committing the crime of harassment in that case?

    Again, I'm new to this case, idk the particulars. I'm not asking if Jones was morally right here, he obviously wasn't. I'm just asking how lying on an entertainment program can be grounds for a billion dollars owed in court.
    "Defamation is the act of communicating to a third party false statements about a person that result in damage to that person's reputation."

    It doesn't matter if he told his followers to harass people or not. By claiming that they were lying about their children being tragically ripped from their lives, he defamed their reputation, plain and simple. Fuck him, his followers, and anyone that defends him.

  30. #4530
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    Alex Jones may not have created the Sandy Hook conspiracy theories but he sure help spread them to a vast audience. And he made a shitload of money doing it.

    And like @otnavuskire said, his lies had enormous impact in the real world for these people. Like this:

    Erica Lafferty, the daughter of slain Sandy Hook principal Dawn Hochsprung, testified that people mailed rape threats to her house. Mark Barden told the court how conspiracy theorists had urinated on the grave of his seven-year-old son, Daniel, and threatened to dig up the coffin.
    That's from the article posted above.

    Free speech is me saying:" I believe vaccine are causing autism. I believe COVID is no worst than the flu. I am not getting vaccinated."

    Defamation is me saying: " There was no mass shooting at Sandy Hook. No children died there. Those parents are actors being paid by leftist so they can come after our guns and implement more restrictive anti gun control laws. These people are liars with an agenda."

    See the difference? For the record, I've had my 4 shots of Covid vaccine and I've had my flu shot yesterday.

    Alex Jones deserves to burn in hell for all I care. He is not remorseful at all for all the pain and suffering he caused. Even today he was mocking the court, the jury and the prosecution.

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