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  1. #1411
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmd 5a View Post
    How is calling out misogyny "even more gross" than misogyny itself?
    Reread what I said: "PUA is gross, but it's even more gross to leverage these killings to attack it. "

    Because you are using a public killing as your launching point. It also detracts from you view when you have to capitalize on murders to make a point.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 05-25-2014 at 11:35 AM.

  2. #1412
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmd 5a View Post
    Just like the white supremacist who shot up the Sikh temple was obviously motivated by racism, this guy was obviously motivated by misogyny. That's more of a 1:1 comparison.
    Edit: https://medium.com/the-archipelago/1bb065f76278 puts it pretty well.

    Agreed. His motive was to get back at women for not sleeping with him. He says it in his pretty clearly in his videos.

  3. #1413
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss k bee View Post
    His 'manifesto' is online

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/...orld-manifesto

    The whole PUA/Game anti PUA thing is horrible.

    Read the last 3 pages of his manifesto (p135-137). His fucked up views are WAY more extreme than even the worst PUA and MRA shit can dish out. There is no way I am going to get through all 150 pages of that shit, but I'm willing to bet that he was like this before he even knew what those communities where. His obsession with blond girls, his desire for global extermination/cleansing and insane authoritarian rule akin to north korea... The dude practically molded himself after Hitler.

    Also, read what he actually planned to do on page 132. It goes way beyond misogyny. Torturing attractive men & women who he thinks had a better life than him. Killing his little brother "to deny him the chance to surpass me." Appearing to be a god to those around him. Delusions of grandeur... massively (this ties in with his reported Aspergers issues).

    This dude had issues that went WAY beyond females. He certainly chose to focus most of his anger on females though. He strikes me as a mentally unstable rich kid who was used to getting everything he wanted... but this was the one thing money couldn't buy him. His misogyny was a major symptom of his core issues, not the cause.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 05-25-2014 at 04:06 PM.

  4. #1414
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  5. #1415
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    If anyone finds a decent cliffnotes version of his manifesto, please link it. I'm skimming through it while my kid sleeps and stuff is just... crazy.

    - Thinking he can harness supernatural powers to influence the world around himself
    - He thinks he has no skills but wants to become rich so he buys a shitload of lottery tickets and spends days meditating to will a win into existence.
    - The way he always judges others against himself... like meeting a kid younger than him but instantly hating him because he was taller.
    - Constant desires to stop the entire world from having something he couldn't, and it went back as far as, at least, 17 with him wanting to stop the act of sex.

  6. #1416
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    This whole thing hits disturbingly close to home, as I find myself to be a good guy - who no one seems to have any interest in dating. So in that regard alone, the shooter has my sympathy. Being single when you don't want to be is tougher than a lot of people realize, especially when you're constantly surrounded by people rubbing it in your face (i.e. PDAs everywhere you turn).
    A lot of guys are weirded out by how much they identify with the kid's life and general problems. The thing is, that is an extremely typical youth for anyone who was nerdy/awkward/whatever. The issue is that this kid decided to constantly find problems that were someone else's fault. But even that is pretty common... we all know those types of people. This kid had mental issues that somehow made killing people ok. (and I say "kid", simply because it's clear he never grew up, emotionally. by most societal definitions he is a man).


  7. #1417
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    This is interesting (number three especially)

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/23/us...html?hpt=hp_c5

    ANDRILL AnemoneI (Edwardsiella andrillae)
    Location: Antarctica
    Scientists with Antarctic Geological Drilling Program (ANDRILL) were studying ocean currents under Antarctica's ice shelf. Setting out to test a camera-equipped robot, they discovered the Edwardsiella andrillae actually living in the ice. The sea anemones are less than an inch long and have between 20-24 tentacles that protrude in the chilly waters. While Antarctica is full of variations of sea anemone, these are the only known to actually live in the ice and it's still uncertain how they are able to withstand the harsh conditions in which they live.



  8. #1418
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    this guy isn't just someone who was socially awkward and bad with girls. If you listen to the way he talks in that video, he sounds like a melodramatic tool. Listen to him laugh! He thinks women should want to fuck him because his daddy bought him a luxury car... and then he spews this delusional melodramatic bullshit.

    I'm sure it wasn't just that women weren't interested. This kind of personality and mannerism is pretty much off-putting to everyone, he probably had no friends, but he lives in this affluent entitled bubble that keeps assuring him that he's justified and everyone else is just denying him.


    I wonder at what point during his rampage did he realize "holy shit, this is real, and all of this is really happening." Right before he shot himself?

    My only real issue with the way this story is being discussed is the focus on "a greater social issue" with regards to how men view women. Yes, I'm sure it's a bit distressing for some unpopular guys to feel themselves even partially identifying with this guy's woes, but this isn't a normal person. There's so many things wrong with this guy, the only thing that's shocking to me is that the cops interviewed him and then just thought 'ok, well, he seems adjusted enough.'

    This is the kind of person you red flag. You take a moment out of your day to monitor what he's uploading, what he's saying. Maybe instead of needlessly wire tapping everybody, and recording random phone calls, and all of this Prism nonsense, we can actually FOLLOW UP on keeping tabs on people who might potentially do something horrific. And you don't even need to tap his phone! Just set up a google alerts to check out what insane psychotic shit he's uploading and typing for everybody to see!
    Last edited by Jinsai; 05-26-2014 at 12:50 AM.

  9. #1419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    My only real issue with the way this story is being discussed is the focus on "a greater social issue" with regards to how men view women. Yes, I'm sure it's a bit distressing for some unpopular guys to feel themselves even partially identifying with this guy's woes, but this isn't a normal person. There's so many things wrong with this guy, the only thing that's shocking to me is that the cops interviewed him and then just thought 'ok, well, he seems adjusted enough.'

    This is the kind of person you red flag. You take a moment out of your day to monitor what he's uploading, what he's saying. Maybe instead of needlessly wire tapping everybody, and recording random phone calls, and all of this Prism nonsense, we can actually FOLLOW UP on keeping tabs on people who might potentially do something horrific. And you don't even need to tap his phone! Just set up a google alerts to check out what insane psychotic shit he's uploading and typing for everybody to see!
    It seems silly to otherwise prioritize one issue over another on this, but this is a clear cut example of how behind America in general is when it comes to mental health issues. A name that I hope will manage to get some air time over the next few weeks is that of Virginia senator Creigh Deeds, whose own son stabbed him in the face before taking his own life last November. With all of his stroke and influence, even he was not able to find suitable treatment for his son and had to just keep a ticking timebomb at home.

    But it's a lot to take in of how it's holding up a mirror to where we are now. Men/Women, guns, mental health, the entitlement of the 1%.

  10. #1420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    There's so many things wrong with this guy, the only thing that's shocking to me is that the cops interviewed him and then just thought 'ok, well, he seems adjusted enough.'
    Is it REALLY shocking? I know a lot of this country puts a lot of faith in the paternalistic protectionism of law enforcement (gun control, always giving up rights for "safety", etc). but cmon... this can't truly be that surprising. Cops aren't psychologists... they are extremely far from it. We saw the same shit with the Boston Bomber stuff. Also, this kind of personality isn't all that uncommon. I could name at least 4 people who I went to school with or are neighbors that are almost identical to this kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Just set up a google alerts to check out what insane psychotic shit he's uploading and typing for everybody to see!
    Local law enforcement doesn't have this kind of time or resource. Besides, you think this kind of monitoring would go over well with the public, especially in the post-Snowden age?

  11. #1421
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    And what the fuck... There were just as many deaths in Chicago this weekend but hey... they weren't white people. Let's spin up some 1984 shit and throw our tax dollars at the occasional problems that hit white people while many many more are dying in those poverty stricken areas we can keep ignoring.

  12. #1422
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    It seems silly to otherwise prioritize one issue over another on this, but this is a clear cut example of how behind America in general is when it comes to mental health issues. A name that I hope will manage to get some air time over the next few weeks is that of Virginia senator Creigh Deeds, whose own son stabbed him in the face before taking his own life last November. With all of his stroke and influence, even he was not able to find suitable treatment for his son and had to just keep a ticking timebomb at home.

    But it's a lot to take in of how it's holding up a mirror to where we are now. Men/Women, guns, mental health, the entitlement of the 1%.
    This. Exactly this. The only "help" in this country right now is JAIL and that ain't no fucking help but, trust me, that's where the vast majority of people with mental health issues end up for a day or two and it just makes them WORSE, not better.

    We closed down all the big Fed mental institutions for good reasons, they were Hell holes. But we have never replaced them with the intended multiple small community-based facilities due to significant lack of funding.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    And what the fuck... There were just as many deaths in Chicago this weekend but hey... they weren't white people. Let's spin up some 1984 shit and throw our tax dollars at the occasional problems that hit white people while many many more are dying in those poverty stricken areas we can keep ignoring.
    THIS, too. The suburban white people are driving into the ghetto to buy drugs, and the drug trade is run by the gangs and the gangs are no longer a few powerful gangs but HUNDREDS of warring shitty thug gangs and it's like fucking Beirut and it's all caused by those white people buying the drugs. A few weeks ago, some gang thugs drove up to a park DURING THE DAY and asked a group of children if they were in a gang. Before the kids, ranging in ages from FOUR to ELEVEN and mostly GIRLS, could answer, they were gunned down.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-26-2014 at 08:18 PM.

  13. #1423
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    Creepy guy. He thought his dad's money could buy him sex. This promise of sex through material possessions is basically everywhere now. Though Hollywood might be shallower than the rest.

  14. #1424
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss k bee View Post
    I skimmed through the whole thing and it is clear how disturbing his tunnel vision was. I found him completely narcissistic where he deserved these so called idealistic women. What I find ironic about this whole situation is that this occurs during Mental Health Month and this is what angers me the most about this. Shit like this happens from time to time and people get angry because mental health issues are ignored. Wake the fuck up, America. Fix our mental health care system.

    Also, it was reported that this kid had Aspergers although I cannot confirm this or not. What angers me about that is how the media tends to vilify those with Aspergers/autism. It's like, this kid has Aspergers. No wonder this kid went on a rampage. While I am not sympathizing with this kid at all, stop vilifying people with Aspergers/autism. It puts a stigma on everyone who has it and it's the complete opposite. Not everyone with Aspergers/autism is a psycho. This is why this country needs to beef up on its mental health care system and understand more about those who fall under the spectrum.

    End of rant.

  15. #1425
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    You know what? I feel terrible for the parents of those who were killed but I also feel terrible for the parents of this guy. They knew something was off and they tried to do something. They are the one who called his therapist who in turn called the cops on him. And last Friday, when they received his "manifesto" by email, they immediately went to look for him in the hope that they would stop him before he could hurt someone but they were already too late.

    These parents were failed by the system although it is hard to say what more the system could have done for them.

  16. #1426
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    Via Reddit.


    Every time there's a mass murder, this Charlie Brooker video needs to be posted:


  17. #1427
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    Hey @DigitalChaos , you have 1776 posts for memorial day.

    I for one think that people who go sideways and murder a bunch of random people are TOTAL FUCKING ASSHOLES!
    Why didn't the kid just shoot himself?
    Maybe i'm just in a bad mood today, but something about that dude's mannerisms REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.
    And i REALly don't give a fuck if he had Aspergers.
    I have bipolar disorder with psychotic features, and i was diagnosed in 1997, WAY before they started diagnosing everyone with it left and right. I've also been diagnosed with schizoeffective disorder.

    So i guess what i'm trying to say is, i'm state certified psychotic and sometimes i hallucinate. On top of that, i used to drink a liter of vodka a day. I've also gone through phases of shooting heroin and cocaine and i've probably eaten a thousand hits of acid. I go on and off of my psych meds all the fucking time.

    But get this. Somehow, i've managed to like...NOT go murder a bunch of people!

    The thing is, no matter how fucked up you are mentally, you have to kind of be a dick to murder people!

    Just sayin.

  18. #1428
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    Random General Headlines

    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-26-2014 at 09:29 PM.

  19. #1429
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    http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/26/world/...html?hpt=hp_c4

    'Vampire' burial in Poland keeps alive the myth that will not die

    From Laura Chubb, for CNN
    updated 10:28 PM EDT, Mon May 26, 2014


  20. #1430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmingly Miserable View Post
    What angers me about that is how the media tends to vilify those with Aspergers/autism.
    Agree, but the Aspergers is a component. It helps explain his socially awkward traits and his propensity to fixate on specific things to such extreme levels. There is a LOT more at play here but our media doesn't do nuance. They want the overly simplified answer because that is what the average viewer wants.

    The Charlie Brooker segment that @GavinCollins420 posted is always spot on, but I think it is going to be even less attainable with social media. I'm personally interested in this one just because of how much information is available to examine. Also, many of the "we should have/we need to" things actually DID happen (gun control in a strict state was followed, he had multiple therapists trying to help his mental issues, police actually examined him while he was in the final stages of planning it, huge amounts of the public saw the flags but didn't act) that would normally get tons of attention as THE thing that everyone needs to act on with legislation or whatever. That knocks all the easy things off the table and forces people to think about the more nuanced reality that always exists.

  21. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Wow. This one gives a really valuable insight into his thinking. I missed the extreme racism portion when skimming his 150page rant. He really is a Hitler + Patrick Bateman hybrid but without any of the success/attention. Napoleon Complex dialed up to the highest level.

    With all the info available, you can really get a decent veiw inside his fucked up head. But I still feel like something is missing... something that explains why all his horrendous views lead him to "...so I'll start killing people." I don't know if it's because he left something out of his rant (he is certainly a manipulative bastard, I didn't see anything about his therapists and such) or what. I recall one of his friends saying how they watched Chronicle together and Rodger became obsessed with world domination.

  22. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessicaSarahS View Post
    I like this piece. There needs to be more of this kind of writing: feminism for dudes.
    It's sadly ironic that so much of the feminist reaction to the killing has been yet more of the kind of discourse that Rodger was so incensed by in the first place: the "you are not entitled to my body" stance. Of course young men need to understand that, but I wonder if there is a better way of getting them to do so. I think there is room for development there: if young men understood how feminism benefits them...

    This whole event has shown how much of a lack of positive models for masculinity there are.
    Feminism offers a valuable, important critique of patriarchy and bad/toxic masculinities: but men have clearly not stepped up to the plate in terms of developing positive male ideologies.

  23. #1433
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    I just want to give some insight on my personal experiences from working within a Community Habilitation for Mental Health.

    It's fucked up.

    I mean, it was the first and only job that I've enjoyed, because I loved seeing the progress that individuals made. Sometimes that progress could be seen daily, other times it took forever.

    First of all, the pay is shit. I was hired at $9.00 an hour. I had some basic psychology classes completed at this point, and that was way more than the majority of my coworkers. When I got promoted to be a supervisor, I was making $10.27 an hour. Due to my organization trying to grow too rapidly, I was working AT MINIMUM, 80 hours a week. We didn't have enough staff for the homes that we already had, but the organization only cared about growth. Working 80 hour weeks here and there can be okay. But when you're doing 80, 90, and 100 hour weeks for months and months, it is draining. I would go months without a day off. Basically, they only care about a body being there, due to most of our individuals being under state mandated 24/7 care. They don't give two fucks if you're actually mentally there... You know, actually able to provide assistance for the individuals in care.

    So, what you end up with is a bunch of late teen to early twenties kids hired into these jobs with NO training and NO understanding of what they're getting themselves into. They come into this job basically thinking that they're "babysitting" and can sit around and fuck off on their phones all day, not realizing that PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE AT RISK. Like I said, I had basic classes under my belt, so I had a little bit of understanding. However, there is absolutely nothing that can actually prepare you for getting into this line of work. I filled out my paperwork, and was left on my own the very first night, without knowing what in the fuck I was supposed to be doing.

    This leads into the paperwork side of it. Again - no training. If you submit paperwork at the end of the month with ANY ERRORS, the state will be like LOL NOT PAYING... And you lose out on that person's funding for the day.

    I once saw one of my clients get Tasered by the fucking cops AS I WAS CHECING HIM IN FOR A PSYCH EVAL DUE TO SUICIDAL ACTIONS.

    I saw clients be mistreated by their doctors.

    I saw clients be put on and pulled off of psychotropic medications on a daily basis.

    I saw clients wait to get ANYTHING from their families - a phone call, a fucking card, SOMETHING. And generally, those things never come. So, when you go into this line of work for the correct reasons, you become their families. I still call and write a lot of them, because you form bonds with them that are very special. You see them at their worst. You see them at their best.

    It is a dangerous job. I cannot count how many times I got punched, hit, kicked, had items thrown at me, etc. A lot of times, the first time someone gets hit, they quit with no notice.

    There is also an issue of the state trying to force people into this level of care when in reality, they DO need to be in a facility. That might sound shitty and cold, but it is the truth. I had one girl who beat the shit out of me on the daily. Would break windows and then chase me down with the glass when she wasn't cutting herself.

    We had a worker who ended up in the hospital for a LONG TIME because a client took down the rod in the closet and beat her with it over and over.

    I hate it when people who are mostly functional with disorder say shit like "Well, I'VE never done that". Well, sure. But every disorder lies within a spectrum. Just be thankful that yours wasn't as bad, and you're able to be integrated into society. Being dismissive of disorders as a cause for concern is shitty. I believe that there is a mental health care crisis in this fucking country. We need to stop acting like it is some made up thing, and actually address it.

    TL;DR - there are programs for people with mental health disorders. But the employees of these programs are paid nothing, and receive no training. Often times, they do more harm than good.

  24. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    TL;DR - there are programs for people with mental health disorders. But the employees of these programs are paid nothing, and receive no training. Often times, they do more harm than good.
    Thanks, Sarah, that was a great post. And there are programs but not NEARLY enough of them and, like you said, they're not staffed properly and they're horribly underfunded and most people only end up doing 72 hours in a psych unit (see my above link) but jail ends up being the most common "mental health facility."
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-27-2014 at 03:02 PM.

  25. #1435
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    Given the outrage that people are expressing over the psychiatrist who (maybe because she said it on fox news) considered the possibility that the shooter was a repressed homosexual, I think it's worth saying that the notion isn't THAT far fetched. She wasn't saying "gay people are violent psychos." A lot of the people getting really angry about the speculation are insisting for evidence in his manifesto where he spells out his homosexuality in an obvious way... which would mean that he acknowledged it and accepted it to be true, which isn't what she was suggesting.

    And yet, he spends as much time evaluating how good looking (or ugly) he perceives men to be who are successful with women. He refers to himself as beautiful. The only criteria he lists that I saw for what makes a woman attractive is that they're white and blonde. He even claims that he wasn't attracted to women who aren't white and blonde. He's furiously and violently jealous of heterosexual couples. He's a 22 year old virgin, on the verge of a killing spree to exact revenge on women and the men who go for them, but he doesn't even consider going with a prostitute? He's complaining about happy couples spoiling his day, but he doesn't even include any examples where he actually went out and tried to approach a girl where the end possibility could have resulted in sex. Is it really that much of a stretch to consider the possibility that he really wasn't physically interested in sex with women? We know he was a narcissist, misogynist, that he'd never had any physical sexual interaction with women, identified a VERY simple and basic "type" of woman that he was singularly attracted to, which was the equivalent of describing a Barbie doll when asked what "his type" of woman was.

    I don't know if I buy it, but it's not the craziest theory I've heard. I think it's kind of insane (and maybe a little ironic) that people are accusing the person who suggested the possibility to be homophobic. If someone concluded that his aspergers likely contributed to his social awkwardness in general, are they expressing an attitude which belittles or demonizes people with mental disorders?

    Is this form of speculation inappropriate, or is it just simply unhelpful and pointless? I don't know, but I don't get the controversy.

  26. #1436
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    @Sarah K I worked for the State of California, Department of Developmental Service when I was 19-21. It was basically at state run long term facility for those with developmental disabilities. However, most of these clients has some serious psychotic issues too (like the young adult who carried his stuffed animal around who he fucked through the seam on the back). It was a crazy few years there too. However, I have never been in danger there. I've been working at a public elementary school since 2005 and I have felt that my life was threatened more than once. I have been seriously bitten and everything else except for stabbed at my current job.

    I am not doubting you one bit in your experience; in fact, I totally can relate. But I find that there is some sort of irony in my experience where I have never been threatened at the mental facility that I worked in 10+ years ago but I have been seriously in danger working in a public elementary school.

    What I just said brings me to this: First and foremost, I'm not a big fan of medication. I have been on a few in the past (Xanax, Abilify, and a couple of others that I can't remember ATM); I feel better without them. However, there are certain situations that medication is needed. Sure, cognitive behavior therapy, holistic healing and other methods might help, but if you are hurting others or hurting yourself in combination with some seriously deep issues, get on meds.

    I'm not sure if Rodger was on meds or if they would have helped him. Maybe I'm just going on another tangent here but that kid was fuuuuuuuuuuucked up.

  27. #1437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmingly Miserable View Post

    I'm not sure if Rodger was on meds or if they would have helped him. Maybe I'm just going on another tangent here but that kid was fuuuuuuuuuuucked up.
    I thought they were saying on the radio that he was on meds but stopped taking them. Another note of interest is that he sent his "manifesto" to his psychiatrist apparently? That was how the parents became notified that he was about to go on a rampage. It all makes you wonder how often his psychiatrist was seeing him, and whether he/she could be considered partially responsible for not insisting upon legal intervention earlier.

  28. #1438
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    If so, I don't know why the psychiatrist didn't 5150 him ASAP, especially in California.

  29. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Given the outrage that people are expressing over the psychiatrist who (maybe because she said it on fox news) considered the possibility that the shooter was a repressed homosexual, I think it's worth saying that the notion isn't THAT far fetched. She wasn't saying "gay people are violent psychos." A lot of the people getting really angry about the speculation are insisting for evidence in his manifesto where he spells out his homosexuality in an obvious way... which would mean that he acknowledged it and accepted it to be true, which isn't what she was suggesting.

    And yet, he spends as much time evaluating how good looking (or ugly) he perceives men to be who are successful with women. He refers to himself as beautiful. The only criteria he lists that I saw for what makes a woman attractive is that they're white and blonde. He even claims that he wasn't attracted to women who aren't white and blonde. He's furiously and violently jealous of heterosexual couples. He's a 22 year old virgin, on the verge of a killing spree to exact revenge on women and the men who go for them, but he doesn't even consider going with a prostitute? He's complaining about happy couples spoiling his day, but he doesn't even include any examples where he actually went out and tried to approach a girl where the end possibility could have resulted in sex. Is it really that much of a stretch to consider the possibility that he really wasn't physically interested in sex with women? We know he was a narcissist, misogynist, that he'd never had any physical sexual interaction with women, identified a VERY simple and basic "type" of woman that he was singularly attracted to, which was the equivalent of describing a Barbie doll when asked what "his type" of woman was.

    I don't know if I buy it, but it's not the craziest theory I've heard. I think it's kind of insane (and maybe a little ironic) that people are accusing the person who suggested the possibility to be homophobic. If someone concluded that his aspergers likely contributed to his social awkwardness in general, are they expressing an attitude which belittles or demonizes people with mental disorders?

    Is this form of speculation inappropriate, or is it just simply unhelpful and pointless? I don't know, but I don't get the controversy.
    He actually reminds me a bit of that Luka Magnotta guy.

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    Nothing can excuse Rodger’s repulsive beliefs and actions, but digging deeper to understand them exposes the ways in which we, too, are complicit in them—as enablers of a culture where material wealth is a marker for success, whiteness is a badge of prestige, and sexual “conquest” a measure of masculinity.
    I think this article neatly sums up why people will always include the bigger picture in discussing these cases: because he was educated and shaped by that bigger picture. No, patriarchal mysoginy didn't "make him do it". But it is a context, and to consider our complicity in this context is, imho, important.

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