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  1. #3511
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    It’s a disconnect from compassion, from reality, and the system is so Big it does nothing to protect children.

    If I had children in school right now, I’d HOME SCHOOL them.

    If you can’t afford it or can’t hire somebody, get sterilized.

    Because the System is no longer protecting your child against:

    * Bullying
    * Sexual assault
    * Bullets
    * Bombs
    * Inadequate education

    My mom has worked in the public school system since before I was born. I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is true, and most teachers are upset every day they come home because they aren't able or allowed to do anything to help any of those situations.
    Not to put down any other profession, but being a (good) teacher today has got to be one of the most stressful jobs.

  2. #3512
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    If a school has a lot of UNATTENDED entrances and exits, itís a problem; thatís probably what they meant.

    This shooter allegedly waltzed in, looking like a student, through an unprotected entrance, carrying a hidden shotgun; heíd already been in the building several times, planting explosives.

    There are many entrances and exits to the airport and the courthouse, too, but all are attended by armed guards and metal detectors or have cameras.

    We used to be able to walk into and around airports with little to no security; we got full meals on planes, even in coach, with flatware; you could call ahead and request special meals (American Airlines had a great seafood salad); the last 5 rows in back were the smoking section. Things change.
    Yeah but it seems kinda ridiculous that our schools need to adopt TSA-style security measures now just because Americans aren't willing to give an inch on their gun rights for the sake of kids' safety.

  3. #3513
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    Shit, not another one and this time in Georgia: https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/cla...unty/752279092

  4. #3514
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Explosives: Homemade, impossible to regulate or control, this guy and the Columbine guys had them. This guy had handmade Molotov cocktails and pressure cooker bombs.

    Shotgun: Not regulated, this guy had one. Edit: that he stole from his dad, he also stole his dadís .38 handgun

    Stolen guns: The Sandy Hook shooter had them

    Strengthen gun laws, yes; but that wonít increase security.

    We had more security in my high school in the 70s than high schools do now. Go figure.
    I guess my hesitation about adding more security to schools is that I really don't like the way police interact with students, particularly with non-white students. I've seen it multiple times. In 2012 I spent a year volunteering at a high school in north Minneapolis and both of the cops there were fucking wackos, making weird threats to students and all sorts of shit. One of them used to scream down the hallway, yelling crazy shit like "Move it buddy or I'm gonna bury my shoe in your face!" Like we're in a fucking bootcamp or something. Not exactly the world's greatest learning environment. And then the faculty would have these meetings wondering why the kids viewed the school in an oppositional way. Gee, take a guess. There was also , and plenty more just like it that you can find all over youtube. I have a cousin in middle school who lives in northern Nevada and has been targeted and bullied by the campus cop there for no logical reason at all, and what a shock, he's one of the only Latino kids in the whole school. My family from Los Angeles have had extremely negative experiences with the cops in their schools.

    So yeah, I'm pretty reluctant to increase police presence in schools given their horrible reputation so far. And I just think it's ridiculous that we need to completely redesign our schools in order to cater to all the obsessed gun lovers, as if their pet political cause is the most important issue in our country and everything should be oriented toward making them happy.

    I do understand what you're saying about the homemade explosives, that gun regulations have no way of preventing that. I honestly don't have a good answer for that particular aspect of it. That said, none of the casualties in the Texas shooting came from homemade explosives. Same thing with the the one today, or Florida high school shooting, or the Sandy Hook shooting, and so on. Most of these school shootings haven't involved homemade explosives, and even the ones that did, like Columbine, the explosives are rarely the cause of death. The Columbine explosives didn't even go off. The majority of all these casualties are from the GUNS, so that to me is the primary issue that needs to be addressed at the moment.

    And to me, the whole argument that you can't regulate illegal/stolen guns doesn't really make sense in this particular context. For me that argument is more convincing when we're talking about gangs, terrorism, organized crime, etc. But these kids didn't acquire their guns from some ring of underground gun smugglers. They're only considered to be "stolen" guns because they took them from their parents who legally purchased them, but those parents should have never been allowed to have those guns in the first place. If they'd never owned them to begin with, their kids would have had nothing to "steal" and wouldn't have been able to pull off these massacres. If I had my way, purchasing a gun would require a year long screening process, complete with mental health evaluations, unscheduled home inspections, in depth training, and a very thorough assessment about WHY this person wants to purchase the gun in the first place. The vast majority of gun ownership is completely pointless and should have never been allowed. People should not be allowed to purchase killing toys any time the mood strikes them.

  5. #3515
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    The Royal Wedding--I couldn't give two shits and a flying fuck. Glad it's finally over.

    ETA--and it's Yanny!
    Last edited by RhettButler; 05-20-2018 at 06:19 AM.

  6. #3516
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Who said anything about police in schools? That didnít do shit in Parkland; Deputy Donuts hid in the bushes outside.

    Welcome to 1996 in Chicago: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...-appeals-court

    https://chicagodefender.com/2010/01/...s-on-security/

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/educati...s-drugs-gangs/

    https://www.propublica.org/article/n...ning-every-day

    I get scanned EVERY single time I go to a Courthouse, the Federal building, or to see a fucking hockey game. You nearly get butt-probed now when you see a concert. Assuming that itís because of ďraceĒ is bullshit; itís because we live in a violent world where assholes want to fuck us up. Teaching kids to be wimps complaining about metal detectors isnít preparing them for real life. Guess what, kid? Youíre gonna go through metal detectors and get wanded to see fucking Disney on Ice, so get used to it.
    It's definitely not "bullshit," come on. I'm assuming that someone as widely read and well informed as you must already know all about the whole "School to Prison Pipeline" problem. Well, that's the stuff that concerns me here. "Teaching kids to be wimps" is not a genuine issue that we are currently grappling with, it's the way that our schools are increasingly being used as a direct channel to our racist criminal justice systems. Plenty of schools already have metal detectors and various security measures, and there is a widely proven causal link between "increased school security" and the targeting of nonwhite students. This is a basic fact that has been demonstrated over and over in multiple research studies across the country for many years now.

    Furthermore, when it comes to the specific issue of these mass school shootings, I personally view all these security measures as just putting a band aid on the situation as opposed to getting at the root of the problem. If some kid snaps and decides he's ready to go down in blaze of violence, things like metal detectors and cameras aren't going to stop him, because the whole point is that he's chosen to embark on his own personal suicide mission. I think prevention makes for a more effective strategy, and by and large, these kids couldn't pull off these shootings if they didn't have such easy access to guns through their parents, immediate family, neighbors, etc. It's that EASE OF ACCESS that is the key issue here and that needs to be addressed for the sake of all the future victims that are guaranteed to come if we simply leave things as they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    As to your ideas re who should have guns and how to regulate them: I suggest you read the U.S. Supreme Court ďHellerĒ decision of 2008, which further defines the 2nd Amendment and explains how the Court sees it, itís a really interesting opinion, and how the SCOTUS is likely to view any future legislation on guns (stare decisis):

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf
    Yeah, I know the Heller decision, and I disagree with it. I remember when it was passed. That was a fucking bummer of a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Thereís (justified) outrage about school shootings, but crickets regarding the epidemic of guns and domestic violence against women:

    https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/
    Wow, very interesting. It's true, this issue really does get overlooked. I'll bet a lot of people don't even think about this because the casualties are dispersed, and also because, at least in my opinion, people have a weird sense of resignation and acceptance about domestic violence, almost like it's some "natural" human phenomenon that can never fully go away. Yet another reason why gun ownership in the US needs to drastically reduced across the board.

  7. #3517
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The alleged "school-to-prison pipeline" isn't due to basic security, it's due to zero tolerance and exclusionary policies like the one that expelled the Parkland student, and it's also rooted in deeper socioeconomic issues, none of which we have seen in these mass school shootings. The articles I've linked note that NO mass school shootings have occurred in major urban schools; instead, they've occurred in rural or suburban schools, in the opposite environments of urban environments. The Parkland shooter's economic background is upper class, his mother left an estate of more than a million dollars, that school district has been consistently ranked as one of the most wealthy school districts in the country. The school districts that have already implemented the metal detector programs are in urban areas where there is a lot of gang activity, where fights were breaking out in school and students were at risk of being stabbed to death daily, let alone being shot. Ultimately, it's the school's and the school district's responsibility to insure the safety of the student, but also to reach out to students with problems.

    And that's also a big problem; these kids don't matter one fucking bit to the school districts. They're all education factories, churning out ill-equipped students; the ones who are having trouble -- be it economically, mentally, educationally, behaviorally -- will be ignored or will be kicked out, and will sink or swim, with no help from the education factory.

    I once sat next to a woman at a bar who worked in an administrative office in the Racine WI school district; she was complaining about the poor parents in Racine who didn't pay for their kids' lunches; evidently, you don't get free lunches, you get discounted lunches, and if you don't pay your lunch bill, the district cuts your kid off and your kid gets no lunch. And I asked why they don't pick up the phone and call the parents. And she said, "well, we SEND HOME A NOTE!" Come on, lady, you know how kids are with NOTES. They're lucky they remember to put on a jacket to go home, you think they're gonna remember to give Mom a note? What if Mom works two jobs? What if Mom can't afford it and the kid knows it and doesn't give it to Mom? Why are you putting the KID in charge of this, anyway? Why aren't you making these lunches FREE, anyway? This woman was genuinely PISSED that she even had to deal with it, in the first place, like why don't these people just pay their damned bills. And I kept thinking about those poor kids who got a lunch in line, only to be told that their Mom hadn't paid the lunch bill and sorry, no lunch for you, so they go hungry that day, and suffer humiliation.

    We're the richest country in the nation with the shittiest fucking schools systems. Bernie Sanders wants $15 minimum wage, but that fixes NOTHING; we should have better CAREERS for people, instead of having them spend a lifetime in a fucking $15.00/hour career that won't pay for shit. But giving people careers in high school, getting off this fucking COLLEGE track and paying for VOCATIONAL training, too, is the solution, not "here's a bigger minimum wage, go have fun at Target."

    Anyway ...

    The Parkland shooter had mental and social difficulties, the Sheriff's Deputy and guidance counselors at that school had recommended that the kid be Baker Acted, but the school declined. Also, now it ends up that the school district lied over whether or not the kid was in the "PROMISE" program. And the kid shouldn't have been in that, either, the kid should have been Baker Acted, as recommended. The kid's adopted mother had been pretty much begging for help, but the system didn't give a shit.

    And the system does the same by giving these kids passing grades and shifting them out into society with no skills, with hardly a basic level of education, and with mostly fear of what will happen to them. Interviews with students around the country indicate that most feel it's not a matter of "if" but "when" the same thing will happen in their schools. How can students study when they don't even feel safe? The reality is that these shootings are fairly rare, relative to the VAST number of schools in our country. But, the media continues to publish the names of the shooters, carving a sure path to glory.
    I fully agree with all of this, but pointing out that there are many important systemic changes that need to happen in our schools and society doesn't erase the problems that inherently arise from allowing such easy access to guns. Of course, school shootings are a very complex problem that require layers of solutions, but gun control is most definitely one of those layers. It's not "ignorant" to acknowledge the effect that our gun laws are having in our society and to then consider what part gun control can play in preventing mass shootings. The weapons used to carry out these massacres need to be addressed. A gun isn't just some neutral, abstract means to an end. And it isn't like a knife or car, which can be used to hurt people but primarily exist for other reasons. A gun is a device with a specific purpose that opens up specific possibilities that wouldn't be there otherwise. That's the whole point of them existing in the first place. If they didn't perform their function so well, no one would bother with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Regarding Heller, it's not a "bummer" of a day for law-abiding people who simply want a handgun to protect their homes and family, like those in the City of Chicago or Baltimore or D.C., living in neighborhoods where they're scared every single day.
    Maybe I'm misreading, but I feel like this is more or less the "good guy with a gun" argument, and it's never made much sense to me. Obviously there are plenty of responsible people who will never use their gun in a bad way, but that doesn't really matter. If we as a society allow almost unlimited access to guns, they will for a fact end up in the hands of people who shouldn't have them. There's just no avoiding it. For example, under our current system, there's absolutely no mechanism in place to prevent a gun from falling into the hands of a sloppy parent who doesn't keep the gun safe from their mentally unstable teenager. And given the incredibly high rates of gun ownership, we know, statistically speaking, that this is bound to happen at some point. Thinking otherwise is just naive. Approximately 42% of US households have a gun (link). That is an enormous chunk of the country. At that rate, it is essentially guaranteed that mentally ill teenagers are eventually going to get his hands on one sooner or later.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    With school shootings, we're pointing at the guns but we're not looking at WHY.

    WHY would a kid go get a weapon and go KILL his teachers and fellow students?

    WHY??

    What prompts somebody to even contemplate it, let alone pre-plan it, and then put the plan into action, actual execute the plan and murder and injure people? These perpetrators are KIDS. What in the FUCK is going on, here?

    It's likely that they didn't have access to guns, they'd find something else; it you push it down one place, it pops up somewhere else. Like the kid who went on a stabbing spree at school.

    WHY? What prompts a kid to be that angry, to lash out, literally, at fellow students, and snap like that? Who the fuck at school is ignoring all those fucking warning signs? Where are the parents? Is there help available? Are the kids bullied? Where are programs to help kids being bullied, to stop that? Is social media at play, here? Pointing at the weapon of choice instead of why the kids are doing it in the first place (and how to help them) is being just as fucking ignorant. I don't expect the kids to have answers, but I damn well expect that we adults should find a way to figure it out.
    Yeah...I hear you. I think about this stuff all the time. I don't know.

    I understand what you're getting at. It's not like there was this happy, well-balanced kid just cruising along through life without no issues, and then suddenly he saw a gun at home and instantaneously transformed into a psychotic mass murder. The gun was simply the method of execution, and while I still maintain that access to guns has to become way more limited, I do understand that they aren't necessary the direct catalyst. Given how heinous these acts are, it's hard to understand where that extreme level of violence is originating from. It's like some kind of crazed lashing out. If these were isolated events that happened once in a great while, you could argue that it was some freak phenomenon, like serial killers or something. But this is getting to be all the time now.

  8. #3518
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The NRA used to teach all of this, but it went off the rails somewhere. There really needs to be a new “gun” organization that isn’t about milking unsuspecting Americans for money and giving it to political candidates and lobbyists but, instead, is about safety and education etc.
    Good luck with that. Even the local hunter safety classroom and range had fucking "Killary" memes, and one of my "graduating classmates" brought his own folder of "target papers" which were normal target sheets with Hillary's face in life size on them. He was passed as a safe hunter and given permission in NY (in a state known for somewhat strict gun laws) to hunt with long arms. He already had a cary conceal pistol permit.

    It's beyond the NRA, it's a fucking part of firearm culture now.

  9. #3519
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    Quote Originally Posted by sick among the pure View Post
    Good luck with that. Even the local hunter safety classroom and range had fucking "Killary" memes, and one of my "graduating classmates" brought his own folder of "target papers" which were normal target sheets with Hillary's face in life size on them. He was passed as a safe hunter and given permission in NY (in a state known for somewhat strict gun laws) to hunt with long arms. He already had a cary conceal pistol permit.

    It's beyond the NRA, it's a fucking part of firearm culture now.
    I would've called secret service on his ass the second I saw those targets.

  10. #3520
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    First, I’m surprised they allowed a target with a person’s face on it, since it’s encouraging murdering someone, anyone; it’s not funny, it’s the opposite of “gun safety.” Second, I don’t believe ALL of “gun culture” is on the right; I believe there is a shit ton of gun enthusiasts and gun owners and 2A proponents in the center or left, but they are thought to be unicorns or shamed into hiding.

    Still, all that aside, gun safety is still important and should be provided and encouraged; it appears that the parents of the shooter in Texas didn’t take gun safety classes, or just didn’t care. If the NRA was smart, they could use this as a teachable moment about the importance of gun safety and keeping your firearms away from your kids. But it appears that they have some kind of “list” for the year and they don’t deviate from that list. Or something.

    Edit: Maybe THIS is what’s needed?!
    My wife and I were both in the military. We both love shooting weapons at a range so I took her to one near here for her 40th. They had several zombie sheets - very popular - but they also had some typical political targets. You can see them if you want, I just used the search term "zombie range targets" and they showed up. I'm not linking for various reasons but...yeah.

    Politicians keep talking about how video games teach kids to be violent against people because of the avatar stand-ins, but how is this any different? It's a specious and hypocritical argument at the best of times.

    Oh and I'm on an NRA mailing list now. I wonder how that happened.

  11. #3521
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  12. #3522
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Can we cancel the President too?

  13. #3523
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    When there are so many terrible things to say about someone and you don't know where to start...
    Congressional candidate who admits to:

    being a neo-nazi
    running an incel discussion board
    raping his late ex wife
    being a pedo with a nice helping of incest

    GOOD FUCKING JOB AMERICA.
    Last edited by sick among the pure; 06-01-2018 at 09:21 AM.

  14. #3524
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    Quote Originally Posted by sick among the pure View Post
    When there are so many terrible things to say about someone and you don't know where to start...
    Congressional candidate who admits to:

    being a neo-nazi
    running an incel discussion board
    raping his late ex wife
    being a pedo

    GOOD FUCKING JOB AMERICA.
    I should have known better to click that but GIANT CONTENT WARNING ABOUT INCEST and all of the above stuff. There are excerpts.

  15. #3525
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    Ughhhh, why isn't he locked up?!?

  16. #3526
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    There are people like this on the ballot all the time, they just usually don't get much media attention because they're completely unelectable and get weeded out fairly early.

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    Miss America is scrapping the swimsuit portion of the competition and claiming that they won't be judging the women by appearance and will be "more inclusive" of different body types.

    I think this is silly, and here's why:if they are really serious about this shit, then next year, the contestants should be of all ages and body types.
    It should be activists and authors and revolutionary politicians. An 80 year old philanthropist; a Muslim who pushed for equal rights in the Iranian American community; a trans woman who stood up to oppression.

    But it WON'T be that. It will still be absurdly, insanely unusually beautiful women, but with more clothes on.

    If they don't prove me wrong, then this move is pretty meaningless imho.

  18. #3528
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    Quote Originally Posted by sick among the pure View Post
    When there are so many terrible things to say about someone and you don't know where to start...
    Congressional candidate who admits to:

    being a neo-nazi
    running an incel discussion board
    raping his late ex wife
    being a pedo with a nice helping of incest

    GOOD FUCKING JOB AMERICA.

    Apology for double post, but after I read that, I just have to say:
    OH GOD OH JESUS WHAT IN THE FUCK?

    "As Lysander on suiped.org, a forum for “suicidal pedophiles,” Larson wrote numerous posts endorsing child rape and other forms of sexual abuse.

    “Why doesn’t every pedo just focus on making money so they can get a pedo-wife and ..."

    yeah I'm not quoting the rest of it.

    But you SHOULD click on it if you can handle it, just to see how fucking utterly insane it is.
    @Demogorgon , really?! JESUS.



    Last edited by elevenism; 06-06-2018 at 07:28 AM.

  19. #3529
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Miss America is scrapping the swimsuit portion of the competition and claiming that they won't be judging the women by appearance and will be "more inclusive" of different body types.

    I think this is silly, and here's why:if they are really serious about this shit, then next year, the contestants should be of all ages and body types.
    It should be activists and authors and revolutionary politicians. An 80 year old philanthropist; a Muslim who pushed for equal rights in the Iranian American community; a trans woman who stood up to oppression.

    But it WON'T be that. It will still be absurdly, insanely unusually beautiful women, but with more clothes on.

    If they don't prove me wrong, then this move is pretty meaningless imho.
    Hopefully they will allow beer guts in to the Mr Olympia Contest next.

  20. #3530
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post


    really?! JESUS.



    Yeah man, it's crazy how many outright insane people run for public office. It's so commonplace that it's usually not even local news, plus, it was kind of an unwritten/unspoken rule that media simply didn't want to give these people a platform to spout their shit. "There is no bad publicity" and all that. The tone of politics is different at the moment though, and so every single deviant going for a seat is likely to get coverage so the media can try to stave off all the bias and agenda accusations that have been cropping up. Social media let that genie out of the bottle.

  21. #3531
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    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...612-story.html

    Proposal to split California in three will be on the state ballot in November. NorCal, SoCal, and California (aka Beach California).

    Not the first time this has happened, and polling still shows weak support (sub-20%), but it got over 400,000 signatures in order to get on the ballot.

    While they're at it, let's move NYC to NJ and make the rest of New York its own state.

  22. #3532
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...612-story.html

    Proposal to split California in three will be on the state ballot in November. NorCal, SoCal, and California (aka Beach California).

    Not the first time this has happened, and polling still shows weak support (sub-20%), but it got over 400,000 signatures in order to get on the ballot.

    While they're at it, let's move NYC to NJ and make the rest of New York its own state.
    This is such a bad idea. All of that money going to waste as taxes will go very high and this will lead to states being divided. Oh, I'll be living in North Georgia where Atlanta is the border between North and Middle Georgia. Florida will be split into five different states if this shit happens.

  23. #3533
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    Miami dade county could be its own state if it wanted.

  24. #3534
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    This is such a bad idea. All of that money going to waste as taxes will go very high and this will lead to states being divided. Oh, I'll be living in North Georgia where Atlanta is the border between North and Middle Georgia. Florida will be split into five different states if this shit happens.
    The (generalized) consensus I've seen so far is that NorCal would be taxed out the ass, California would be fucked because they have no water rights, and SoCal would be impoverished. Agreed, it's a fucking stupid idea. It's a desperate Republican attempt to get more power in what they've falsely labeled an "ungovernable" state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...612-story.html

    Proposal to split California in three will be on the state ballot in November. NorCal, SoCal, and California (aka Beach California).

    Not the first time this has happened, and polling still shows weak support (sub-20%), but it got over 400,000 signatures in order to get on the ballot.

    While they're at it, let's move NYC to NJ and make the rest of New York its own state.
    Why do rich white guys think they always have the answers?

    Oh yeah.

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    Canada just legalized Marijuana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    Canada just legalized Marijuana.
    I thought they did that like a year ago. Or did it just become effective?

  28. #3538
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    I thought they did that like a year ago. Or did it just become effective?
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-act-bill-c-45

  29. #3539
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    Been a busy day for the Supreme Court already. First the Travel Ban, and then this: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...JhT?li=BBnb7Kz

  30. #3540
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    Mass shooting at a Maryland newspaper.

    Who would've thought this would ever happen in gun-loving, press-hating Trumpland.

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