Professional Wrestling

[Space Suicide]

Luger was hitting a stride then he jumped ship to WCW unannounced. So yeah, WWF only had the small run with him and the dumb Lex Express gimmick. The dude had a good stereotypical wrestler mullet though.




And since we're on WCW rumblings in talk, I had a thought the other day about it all.

As for WCW, everyone who joined initially was well booked and done (1993-1995). The nWo was fantastic but a literal one trick pony. After the initial nWo debut and run (1996-mid 1997) it had played its welcome out. The faction became 20 men or more and broke into two forms with Red and Black Wolfpack and White and Black Hollywood. It just got obnoxious, it was essentially the prime example of too much of a good thing is bad. Besides inner turmoil with management and Hogan, Nash and Hall running the show backstage, the steam in the entire organization was feigning even as early as 1998, maybe 1999. They had nothing to help prod them along with new storylines, feuds or fresh ideas. It was basically nWo or you're not on TV. Minus finances, in my OPINION I consider that the reason WCW failed in the end to take down the WWF/E.

[Piko]

I don't think Luger would've worked. May have worked for a little while, but not long. His lack of wrestling skills would've caught up to him. His personality/character was also lacking. Timing was definitely a factor though. But, after that, he went nowhere fast. You could blame his watered down character there though. Vince waters down everything. It's a miracle anyone can get over there.

Perfect did have problems with getting hurt. But, there was plenty of time to give him a legit run, but they didn't. Same goes for guys like DiBiase and Piper. Criminal that they never got runs at the top. Not even a title reign for Ted except for tag belts. That's insane.

[henryeatscereal]

In related news, i heard Kevin Nash is getting inducted to the WWE Hall of Fame as Diesel (just like Scott Hall, the plan is to induct them with their old WWE gimmicks, so they can induct along with Hogan as the NWO, next year...)

[onthewall2983]

I think if Luger had Nash's run in 94-95 they would have been better off, but not by much because their biggest problem was not having a deep enough roster of heels to throw at whoever their top guy was.

Agreed NWO was a one-shot deal at most. They rode that well past when the wheels fell off. At least WCW turned Hulk good again in 1999, which is probably one of the few memorable moments of those last 2 years of the company.

[henryeatscereal]

Speaking of the NWO: I agree that it was both a blessing and a curse for the WCW, the stable started great and to say we still it's effect today would be an understatement, but also the stable became a parody of itself and became the same thing over and over; add to the mix Hogan's and Nash's backstage politics and you'll get WCW's death (also add stupid decisions like how they handled the Goldberg character, putting the belt of David Arquette, burying young guys, etc).

Read the Meltzer piece, it's so interesting, i hope that Bryan wins the WWE title once more but it's also clear that Bryan could care less since he's happy to wrestle and just "being there", McMahon would never understand this because it's all about the ego, i can't wait for McMahon to leave the WWE for good...

[Piko]

I read Meltzer's piece, so depressing. NWO was the beginning of the end. They had way too many people than they knew what to do with. The creative control in the back didn't help. But, it all really came down to the time Warner merger. They didn't want to be in the wrestling business, and wasted no time getting rid of it. WCW probably could've been salvaged, maybe. But, WCW was doomed the second that merger happened.

[RJK]

WWE sent me a $25 code for WWE shop for being subscribed for the entire year. That was nice, since they did two months for free in that year.

[thefragile_jake]

Man, what a crazy couple of days it's been since I went to FastLane on Sunday. Lots of stuff happened this week, but I thought I'd give a rundown on the crowd.

Honestly, the building was really full and even though everyone is right that the crowd seemed quiet during most of the show...my section was extremely loud and we were on the hard camera the entire time and I'm shocked that everything we were saying wasn't picked up by the camera...but the asshole that shouted "boring" during the Stardust/Goldust match that @Final Destiny brought up was. I'd say the crowd was more 70% into Bryan and 30% into Reigns. Bryan had more of a bigger demographic of fans while it seemed to be teenagers, women and little children into Roman. Except for this one really fat guy towards the front who I kept getting into it with. We booed when Bryan shook his hand and I know that at least came across on TV. We all felt deflated after Roman won, it was to be expected but Bryan certainly made both of them look like a million dollars. Kind of a sombre feeling after the show. Did anyone else see my YES sign and me in the crowd?




I was kind of shocked our seats were so close, I didn't mind the show overall as I think it's MUCH different being there and being so close. I lost my voice the next day from booing Roman so much and so loud. Oddly enough, if you go back and watch the Reigns vs. Bryan match...as he's working on him outside of the ring there's a shot where you see Roman wink at someone in the crowd..it was actually me. I was shouting at him so much, he did some goofy wink.

In response to what Metlzer wrote, I don't think there's a genuine concern for Daniel Bryan never being able to reach that top level again. The company just has a certain objective that they want to push and they're not going to back down from it. I really like Dave Melzter, I really do....but I'm starting to take what he says with a little bit more hesitation. Although he wrote a beautiful and crushing piece about Daniel Bryan, I sincerely doubt there's nothing going to be a time that the guy can't ever rise to the occasion again. Is he going to be the next John Cena? Of course not, I don't think his fans expect him to...but he is certainly going to be the next Bret Hart style of champion. What Metlzer brings up in his great recap of history when it came to fans wanting something that company wasn't pushing, we know that Diesel was positioned to be the guy in 1995 but ultimately that failed. It's crazy to think that 20 years later, we're in a similar position....the tall goateed, long haired pretty boy with a lack of real in ring ability against the smaller, more technically sound mat grappler who is still over with the fans. Ultimately, the Diesel project failed as business wasn't in a good spot...and I see the Roman project failing even worse. Besides that business was down, Diesel had WAY more charisma and charm than Reigns does and his victories never caused major fan backlash. I think what's more damaging about this situation is that I'll probably never get the Brock Lesnar vs. Daniel Bryan dream match I want, not that Bryan is going to be pushed so down the mid-card that it destroys the guy's chances. I understand the Chris Benoit comparison Dave brings up with the fact that Bryan could be positioned later on as the workhorse guy that helps get newer talent over and is the best work with in years to come, but I don't think it's fair to compare the two as Benoit never even dreamed to reach the level of both popularity and mainstream appeal that Bryan has been able to do without the company pushing for it. Honestly, it seems more that right now they're doing everything they can to help position Roman as what the WWE wants and it's looking like it's turning on the company. The majority of the crowds are not into Roman and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. I also don't feel that the fans have given up either. It's really a matter of the product just not being as hot as it was once in cities that aren't as into it, RAW is going to be in some northeast cities soon and that'll certainly inject some life into the TV show as well as getting back to the rallying Daniel Bryan fans. I suspect before years end, Bryan will be on the hunt for the title once more.

Again, I always love to read Meltzer's work and he is for better or for worse...a great insider asset to fans...but he's been wrong before (CM Punk returning to RAW, WM31 main event a triple threat) and he'll be wrong again at some point. When it regards to Bryan's future with the company and top title matches never being a possibility, I think he'll be incorrect once more.

[Piko]

Going by recent trends, they see Bryan as a guy who has a following, but not a top guy. He's going to be the guy to use when it comes to getting people over. He may get a run with the title. But it won't be a meaningful run. Probably a placeholder champion until someone else comes along. The rumor now is that Bryan may feud with Wyatt after mania. And just like more recent decisions, Taker will probably go over on Wyatt (when he shouldn't ). Bryan will probably end up being a rebound for Wyatt to look strong after his mania loss.

Tons of talent that won't go where they should go because they aren't "marketable" enough. Reigns has a look, and isn't bad in the ring, but has zero personality. Vince wants it, but it's not there (for now at least ). It's like cooking something that will take hours, but cutting it down to a half hour. Obviously it won't be good. If they had allowed more time for him to develop. Get him ready for a push. They rushed it and completely screwed it up.

[henryeatscereal]

^oh man, Bryan VS Wyatt again?, i'm sick of that feud already...

When Meltzer compared Bryan to "Hacksaw Jim Duggan", i cringed, if that's the plan they have for Bryan (putting people over, being a 2nd guy).
Sadly Vince will never learn as long as he has the network subscriptions and the ratings he'll do whatever he pleases, i understand now all the fans that threaten to quit watching, but if it's just a threat then all will be a "vicious circle" all over again...

[Piko]

People can complain all they want. WWE is still getting paid. Network subscriptions, merch, and tickets. Want to make a actual difference? Stop giving them money. That will do something, if enough people actually do it. No one will though.

[thefragile_jake]

I think Meltzer comparing Bryan to Duggan was what set me off. Piece was written very well but that was certainly sensationalism at it's best.

[thevoid99]

Bryan shouldn't be in the same room with Duggan. Bryan is a way better wrestler and personality than Duggan. All Duggan was essentially was a 2x4 and a "Ho!" kind of guy. The Meltzer piece was depressing to read but it is a confirmation that Vince is once again setting himself up for failure. He truly hasn't learned from his mistakes of the past as he's now bound to repeat it.

[Piko]

Wasn't too big on Duggan. Comes out with the 2x4, does his shtick, clothesline, over.

[onthewall2983]

Jim Duggan was a bit more than that, but that's basically what he was reduced to in WWF. Same with The Bushwhackers who were actually a brawling heel team before they were repackaged as goofballs.

[thevoid99]

Jim Duggan was a bit more than that, but that's basically what he was reduced to in WWF. Same with The Bushwhackers who were actually a brawling heel team before they were repackaged as goofballs.

I saw some pre-WWE clips of them when one of them talked to Jake Roberts who was doing a little thing on the group. They were in some serious hardcore matches back then. Some of it was scary. How'd they get repackaged by the WWE like that is beyond me but they managed to make it work for some reason. They were a guilty pleasure for me.

[thefragile_jake]

Vince McMahon in his own world.

[Swykk]

Rey Mysterio was finally released today. Likely headed for Lucha Underground.

[thevoid99]

Rey Mysterio was finally released today. Likely headed for Lucha Underground.

Yeah, I read about that. I guess he and Alberto will create their own rivalry but I doubt it will work considering Rey's weak knees.

[Piko]

He can still make appearances though. I wouldn't have him wrestle though. At least not regularly. Speaking of Alberto. Watched ROH earlier. He seems a lot more bearable to watch there. Like he's enjoying himself. Pretty decent match with ACH.

[Space Suicide]

Rey Mysterio was finally released today. Likely headed for Lucha Underground.

I won't miss him. He's been crap to watch in WWE feud wise, skill wise and enjoyability wise since 2005.

[thevoid99]

I heard that the Intercontinental title match will be a multi-man ladder match. Could be interesting but I'm too skeptical about the booking of it.

[Piko]

Quite a few people have been hoping for mania to have a big match like money in the bank. This is as close as we're going to get to that. Haven't watched smackdown yet, but even if it's a four way ladder match, that could be pretty cool. Especially with Ziggler and Ambrose involved.

[Space Suicide]

I heard that the Intercontinental title match will be a multi-man ladder match. Could be interesting but I'm too skeptical about the booking of it.

It is, I got a notification on my phone from the WWE App. Here's to hoping it's good. Barrett and Ambrose are entertaining to watch so it should be good in some form.

[Piko]

On a side note, fuck that app! That app has spoiled way too many things for me. First NXT Takeover. Network was still new, and unstable. Crashed, and got a notification ruining the main event for me. Got rid of it, quick.

[Space Suicide]

On a side note, fuck that app! That app has spoiled way too many things for me. First NXT Takeover. Network was still new, and unstable. Crashed, and got a notification ruining the main event for me. Got rid of it, quick.

Just turn off notifications.

[Piko]

Guess I was just looking for a reason to get rid of it. Thank Michael Cole for that.

[henryeatscereal]

I think the ladder match has potential, i find it a bit forced but at least has good talent...

They couldn't even give us Bryan/Ziggler... :/

[thefragile_jake]

I think the ladder match has potential, i find it a bit forced but at least has good talent...

They couldn't even give us Bryan/Ziggler... :/

Yeah exactly, WWE is the only company I've ever seen be so against the grain of it's fans most of the time and afraid that their employees could sabotage their "big plans."

While I'm certain it would be a great match, booking wise..this is terrible for Daniel Bryan. At least if they had the one on one Sheamus match, you could bill it as the final chapter in their series of matches. Bryan has been having a tough year since his return and now you've got a returning and now dangerous wrecking ball in Sheamus threatening to take Bryan out. How would Bryan be able to survive already being beaten down and now going against someone who has beaten him seconds previously. It plays off their chemistry, allows Bryan to be booked as the underdog character they can't seem to get away from and gives Bryan another feel good victory as I'm certain that Bryan beating Sheamus was the creative decision last year.

Now it just feels like he's going to be a spot guy with guys who can go like Ziggler and guys who haven't been in anything high profile in years like R-Truth.

Besides, the european tour has Barrett vs. Ambrose for the IC title booked..so unless they change it for the tour, it's clear that Ambrose is walking out the champion. Which makes it even more obnoxious and not special, since he's been walking around with it so much.

[Swykk]

Totally agree with you. Rey's been done since 2008 at the latest. I hate how WWE likely coerced him into beefing up. It made him lethargic in the ring...like Triple H levels of slow.