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Thread: Prepare for Assault World War Three?

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    I didn't think his ego could handle backing down.
    He's pulled this brinkmanship shit several times now, with Syria and NK. I'm not saying it was planned from the get-go but he definitely sees value in dialing things back to give the appearance of diplomacy.

  2. #242
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    Oh, to be sure. It's the go-to play for Trump now...start a crisis, do something/barely anything to de-escalate, take credit for it, and watch his pundits clap like baby seals.

  3. #243
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    the thing about Trump is, time and time again, he proves to do the opposite of what he says to the public. so I'm not taking his words too seriously.

  4. #244
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    Juxtaposition:

    Mike Lee (R-Utah)...click thru to the thread for full effect


    Lil Marco Rubio (R-Florida)

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Word is spreading that it was accidentally hit with one of those many missiles that went out; the plane was (allegedly) full of Iranians, so it wouldn’t likely be deliberate.
    Welp...

    https://www.newsweek.com/iranians-sh...ources-1481313

    To be clear, the missile(s) in question is different from the ones launched against the coalition bases. But still...holy fuck.

    Edit:
    Last edited by cdm; 01-09-2020 at 11:45 AM.

  6. #246
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    So sad. Every time I think about it, I try to imagine the terror the passengers felt. Hoping it was quick.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #247
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    Fuck. Donald. J. Trump.

  8. #248
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  9. #249
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    Wait. Holy fuck. I've not seen the news.
    So there IS evidence that the plane was attacked?

    Edit: not sure why I asked, rather than checking the news.

    FUUUUUUUUUUCK.

    SOo, I wonder how we handle THIS particular brand of bullshit?

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Wait. Holy fuck. I've not seen the news.
    So there IS evidence that the plane was attacked?
    Not “attacked,” no. The majority of the people aboard were Iranian.

    It appears to have been *accidentally* hit by a SAM.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Not “attacked,” no. The majority of the people aboard were Iranian.

    It appears to have been *accidentally* hit by a SAM.
    This is a fucking awful accident, if it's truly an accident.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    SOo, I wonder how we handle THIS particular brand of bullshit?
    This isn't without precedent (US & Iran) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    You can read the wiki but the generally accepted scenario (accepted by everyone but the Iranians) is the US warship mistakenly shot down the airliner thinking it was a fighter jet. Investigations subsequently found the leadership on the ship acted in a reckless manner and was within Iranian territorial waters when it shouldn't have been. The countries settled for $60+ million in international court without the US having to admit fault. Iran never accepted that the incident was mistaken ID.

    The difference here is with IranAir 655 the Navy claims to have tried to contact the airliner before firing. The airliner never heard these calls as they didn't have access to the frequencies. But with PS752 there is no way the Iranians tried to contact the plane...there was just no time. They fired as soon as the radar locked.

    So with all that said I'm not sure we'll handle anything. Boeing will have to be granted a sanction waiver in order to offer investigatory aid, Treasury would surely do that although it is unclear if Iran will accept their assistance. The US could assist a third party nation at some point, possibly France, if Iran hands over the black boxes. Surely we'll offer something to Canada, potentially helping ID & transferring remains. This is all speculation as we didn't have any citizens on board and it wasn't a US registered plane. Aside from the fact that our actions in the region were a catalyst for the eventual incident the only US link is the manufacturer. Iran will have to decide whether or not they allow Boeing in.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    This is a fucking awful accident, if it's truly an accident.
    It would be interesting to know why that plane was targeted when it was so obviously close to the airport and, more importantly, climbing (ie not an aggressive posture)? According to Flightradar24 other flights departed the airport that morning...

    *752 to Kiev 6:12am shot down
    1185 to Istanbul 5:17am
    *752 to Kiev was delayed...was schedule to depart at 5:15am
    873 to Istanbul 5:07am
    491 to Doha 5:01am
    513 to Moscow 4:31am
    872 to Vienna 4:23am
    601 to Frankfurt 2:42am
    Ballistic missiles fired between 1:45 - 2:15am

    We'll probably never know.

    Edit: I'm not suggesting it wasn't mistakenly brought down, just wondering why that particular one caught their attention on what appears to be normal operations despite the ballistic missile strikes.
    Last edited by cdm; 01-09-2020 at 09:24 PM.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    It would be interesting to know why that plane was targeted when it was so obviously close to the airport and...
    We will likely never know-i agree.

    I'm just hoping this thing doesn't trigger...well, you know: the thing that the thread is about.

    Will the U.S. consider something that killed Canadian citizens grounds for war? Will this be one of those mistakes that triggered a war, and go down in history as such?

    Btw: @cdm , I appreciate the information you've provided here. I'm watching news on YouTube, and i've not seen some of the info you've found.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    We will likely never know-i agree.

    I'm just hoping this thing doesn't trigger...well, you know: the thing that the thread is about.

    Will the U.S. consider something that killed Canadian citizens grounds for war? Will this be one of those mistakes that triggered a war, and go down in history as such?
    Nope. The Commander in Chief doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone except white American citizens. A plane full of Canadians doesn't even register to him. But if there had been one dues-paying Trump Club member on that plane, we would have carpet bombed Iran already.

    And so far, I haven't read any news about Canada launching a retaliatory strike (though maybe I just haven't seen those articles).

  16. #256
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    I think the plane being shot down was a mistake by the Iranian military. I have no info to base that on other than itís such an obvious fuck up. military personnel assumed it was an American jet and fired at it.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Nope. The Commander in Chief doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone except white American citizens. A plane full of Canadians doesn't even register to him. But if there had been one dues-paying Trump Club member on that plane, we would have carpet bombed Iran already.

    And so far, I haven't read any news about Canada launching a retaliatory strike (though maybe I just haven't seen those articles).
    So far we've just demanded a full investigation and justice, but no further details. I wouldn't expect a retaliatory strike. I would expect an inquiry, a trial of some sort and see what happens from there.

  18. #258
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    When you're trying to help cover up an extrajudicial killing of a high ranking enemy in exchange for political favors and the dummy says the quiet part loud...


  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    It would be interesting to know why that plane was targeted when it was so obviously close to the airport and, more importantly, climbing (ie not an aggressive posture)? According to Flightradar24 other flights departed the airport that morning...

    *752 to Kiev 6:12am shot down
    1185 to Istanbul 5:17am
    *752 to Kiev was delayed...was schedule to depart at 5:15am
    873 to Istanbul 5:07am
    491 to Doha 5:01am
    513 to Moscow 4:31am
    872 to Vienna 4:23am
    601 to Frankfurt 2:42am
    Ballistic missiles fired between 1:45 - 2:15am

    We'll probably never know.

    Edit: I'm not suggesting it wasn't mistakenly brought down, just wondering why that particular one caught their attention on what appears to be normal operations despite the ballistic missile strikes.
    It was a SAM site that took it down right? If I'm not wrong aren't those generally an automatic system? What I'm getting at is i don't know that any one person would have necessarily "pulled the trigger" so much as failure in disarming the system when there were no threats present.
    Last edited by thelastdisciple; 01-10-2020 at 12:01 PM.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelastdisciple View Post
    It was a SAM site that took it down right? If I'm not wrong aren't those generally an automatic system? What I'm getting at is i don't know that any one person would have necessarily "pulled the trigger" so much as failure in disarming the system when there were no threats present.
    It's a good question. I'm sure some weapons expert would know the answer regarding this specific system. Logically there would be some sort of automatic aspect to it...whether fully (radar picks up a target and fires relatively immediately) or partially (radar automatically picks up target but gives the opportunity for human intervention before firing). I don't know the answer and I haven't come across anything explaining it.

    The US has said satellites picked up 1. the SAM radar switching on 2. two missiles launching 3. the heat signature of an explosion but [so far] I haven't seen the amount of time between #1 and #2. Did they switch the radar off to allow the flights to take off and then back on after 5:17am departure not knowing 752 was delayed?

    One note on those departures: On Flightradar24 you can load earlier flights on the departure board but my account doesn't go back very far, a little over a day. To get the above departures I looked at yesterday's early morning flights and cross referenced to see if they were daily; some were and others weren't. What I listed are actual departure times according to the flight pages. The website cautions that they cannot guarantee the data is correct that they pull info directly from other sources. Generally the data is pretty accurate. I mention this because I've seen some sources say there was a ground stop that morning but these departures don't really back that up...it's hard to say without seeing the full board.

  21. #261
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    Well looks like Iran owned up to it and they even apologized, so credit where it's due... it's not like the U.S. ever apologized when they blew Iran Air Flight 655 out of the sky.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKCN1ZA05V

    Also, i found my answer regarding how their missile defense system operates.

    From Reuters: "To attack a target, the Tor operator must identify it on the radar screen and direct the missile to launch."

    Reiterated by WaPo: "The SA-15 does not track threats and fire autonomously. The operator must identify the target on a screen and then fire the missile."

    For more info on what took down the plane:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1Z90A1

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...rainian-plane/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_missile_system

  22. #262
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    Awful, heartbreaking, enraging. Unfortunately, I fear this development will play into the GOP's portrayal of the Iranian government as monsters and they will use it to justify "regime change".

    P.S. the same-ass monsters Trump was doing business with three fucking years ago.
    Last edited by botley; 01-11-2020 at 01:54 PM.

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  24. #264
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    Iranians protesting against supreme leader:








  25. #265
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    you know, i was thinking: didn't our dicking around with Iran's gvmt partially CREATE the conditions for the revolution that put this regime into power?

  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    you know, i was thinking: didn't our dicking around with Iran's gvmt partially CREATE the conditions for the revolution that put this regime into power?
    Yeah we helped overthrow their democratically elected government in 1953 and install the brutal Shah (might have spelled that wrong)

  27. #267
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    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...h-flights.html

    ^^ Expands on the departures on the morning of the incident, although this assertion has been debunked and Iranian military has admitted it’s not true:

    Iran said the plane turned toward a sensitive military base, leading Iranian missiles to bring it down.
    Last edited by cdm; 01-11-2020 at 08:36 PM.

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  29. #269
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    Man.
    That is intense.

  30. #270
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    So is world war 3 over? Did the good guys win? I've been off the grid.

    Did we free Palestine yet?

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