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Faceplams: Ha sorry i was in a rush our of work, i do really enjoy The THE TDSOriginally Posted by elevenism
The TDS @Haysey ?myself, I've always appreciated The TDS.
This Cannot Continue
Ha sorry i was in a rush our of work, i do really enjoy The THE TDSThe TDS @Haysey ?
I was nobody. Nothing.
HAHAHA
Active Member
I would love an interviewer to ask him this.
Active Member
Trent would probably say what he tends to say when it comes to past work: he was a different person back then.
I was nobody. Nothing.
as much as I like the trilogy, I don't think nearly as many of us would be here if it had been released instead of TDS. I really don't.
Furthermore, I would argue that TDS was so groundbreaking and layered in such a stunning manner that it would be a 10/10 no matter when it was released. That's what I THINK anyway. Honestly, who knows?
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The trilogy couldn't exist without the previous albums. There's a perspective to them that is only possible through time and distance.
I was nobody. Nothing.
yeah but...Here's my controversial opinion: this happened a long time before some fans think it happened.
Does it bother you? I would argue that MOST nin addresses similar ideas and concepts and themes, albeit from various perspectives.
But the themes of pain and addiction and such, these are things I always deeply relate to, so I don't mind.
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It doesn't bother me. Trent has repeated themes and concepts since the early days of Nine Inch Nails, but there's a section of fans that seem to think that's only happened in the past decade or so, which is funny to me. It doesn't matter to me because the artistry of what he makes is still on display. Whether or not something he made is my absolute favorite thing he's done doesn't matter to me, because he's at least exploring and seeing what works. He's not phoning it in like a lot of bands who have made it as far as Nine Inch Nails has. He's still interested in the work, which is what keeps his work interesting.
I was nobody. Nothing.
Preach!
Throbbing Member
Well if nin does a q&a in Chicago like they did before Riot fest last year, I'll go and try.
Last edited by nmitchell86; 09-23-2018 at 10:33 PM.
Throbbing Member
Sure TDS is great, but my real question being asked is more along the lines of this…
It’s a question of the fan assessment of a body of work in relation to their personal view of the artist at a given time. We might agree that TDS is great, but some might attribute that specific greatness to the piss and vinegar of youth, others might attribute it to being born from the twisting affects of drugs, alcohol, or depression. Maybe there is the idea that without those specific real world elements there would be no magic in the album, so to speak.
But, if TDS were created and released today, would people have a skewed view of it based on it coming from a 50+ year old guy who seems to be a happily married family man, who is famous, in good health, sober, and financially well-off? Would people today listen to lyrics from songs like Heresy, Closer, or Big Man With A Gun and accept and praise it, or would they charge it with being completely silly and disingenuous because it came from this guy…
and not this guy…
It’s a very weird question, yes, but it comes to my mind occasionally when reading different thoughts here, especially the wide range of differing takes on latter-year nin output.
I was nobody. Nothing.
@Dr Channard , I don't think it would ... Hmmm.
The lyrics might be taken as disingenuous now, but then I think about NTAE and I'm not sure.
I mean, also, when TDS came out I sure didn't know much about the dude behind it. My buddy and I mistakenly called him Trent Renzor.
So like, my perception of the man didn't affect it much because there wasn't much to go on you know?
Last edited by elevenism; 09-23-2018 at 10:43 PM.
Memb, Member, The Membest
Did you guys consider the opposite: how in 1994 nine inch nails would have a new record with 5 songs (mr self destruct -> closer) , then in 1995 another record (ruiner -> a warm place), and finally in 1996 a grand finale to the trilogy (eraser -> hurt, dead souls? burn?). That way he will be quickly overshadowed by the likes of Manson and ultimately have no resources to record Fragile and the highest peak of his career would be that remix for Bowie.
Throbbing Member
As much as I love Closer, I think they should retire it live. The lyrics are super rapey and while some women enjoy it a lot, I know some feel super uncomfortable if they’ve been assaulted and here’s this guy singing “you let me violate you... you let me desecrate you,,, I want to fuck you like an animal...”
It just doesn’t feel good. They played it on the same day that ford was testifying in front of the Senate. It just doesn’t feel the same way it used to.
I know it’s not ABOUT rape. I now it’s about self loathing and longing for connection. But it doesn’t stop it from feeling that way for some survivors and I think we should care about that.
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it wasn’t played at either of the London shows and honestly I didn’t even realise it hadn’t been played till I heard it mentioned somewhere.
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Nope. Also, good luck with that.
Stubby Member
ehhh I think this is silly to stop playing a song because some people may perceive it as 'this doesn't feel good for my special situation'. this is the problem with fucking america and twitter and the like, get over the shit.
should he stop playing shit mirror too?
I tried a bit then I tried some more
I left her on the bathroom floor
I think I knew when it crossed the line
I think I knew the whole goddamned time
Last edited by 3knic; 09-28-2018 at 11:02 AM.
Throbbing Member
People's "special situations" affects something like one out of five, maybe as high as one out of three women. He played it on the same day of the Kavanaugh hearings where a woman was describing a sexual assault, and many more women online were describing their own awful situations. Love the one, I think the music to it is genius, and I get that it's not about rape. I know lots of women also like the song and it doesn't bother them. But I think it lived a good life and it's time to retire it. I think it is tone-deaf at BEST. It's not just me, I spoke to someone about this after the concert and she was really disturbed by it, she did not enjoy it at all. I think we need to be willing to give up a few things we like sometimes if we really care about others.
Shit Mirror is metaphor. It's about the United States, not about a particular woman. Like Survivalism personified Mother Nature as a whore.
Trent Reznor is awesome. His "character" in A Downward Spiral was a terrible misogynist and in this moment in our country, there are a couple anthems that we could do without.
I love Closer, but I am willing to let it go for the greater good. I'll bet there on women on here reading this who agree but would never speak up because they don't want to deal with bros coming at them about it, which is why I think it's important for me to speak up.
I realize most will disagree, some might be furious, but I've found its important for us to periodically question the status quo, which i think NIN is all about.
Active Member
Unless you only focus on "I want to fuck you like an animal" (which most people do), Closer isn't about rape at all. It's about someone giving so much of themselves over to one person that they break their sense of self-worth, which is something I think people can actually relate to in this day and age.
Throbbing Member
If songs such as 'Für Elise' or 'I want to hold your hand' were released today... would they go on to be timeless songs that will be loved the next 100-200 years? I do think that TDS will be listened to 100's of years from now; where as Short Bus will not be; TDS is a gem from the 1990s. If TDS were released today by an artist whom only had 1 previous LP and EP I doubt it would go down as one of 2010s best albums?
Stubby Member
A lot of old songs have strange lyrics when put into the perspective of a "victim" which underwent anything you could imagine. Even Michael Jackson has questionable lyrics in many of his songs:
Time changes the meaning of things because of how the surrounding culture is part of a never ending change of thought. Sometimes it is justified, sometimes the altered interpretation is all but justified.
Banned
Right now it seems like that status quo (at least online), is to cater to the needs of everyone's different situations with kid gloves. How about retiring Hurt because it mentions intravenous drug use? Hurt has lived a good life; I'm personally tired of it closing most shows. You could say it's tone deaf to people who have struggled with drug addictions and don't need to re-live those feelings.
There are people who have had bad shit happen to them and dealt with them like emotionally mature adults. They realize that the world doesn't cater to their feelings and isn't going to bend over backwards to coddle them.
Throbbing Member
I'm still pissy about the quality of 'Less Than'. I can shuffle through songs and blast them in my car or headphones... Starfuckers, Closer, Please, Demon Seed... then less than comes on and it sounds like a shitty MP3 rip.
I'm pissy because 'Less Than' is one of my favourite songs, I absolutely love it.
Throbbing Member
One more: This is a controversial thread right? Yes people change and mature; but TR has lost an edge when it comes to his recent works. In the 90's we had humans being ground up into meat. I found the video for 'Help Me I'm In Hell' to be verrrryyy interesting. Then there's the SIN video and much much more. Closer vid is very intelligent.
But is TR playing it safe lately? He talks about music today being too safe yet he doesn't really do anything controversial or edgy himself.
That's totally fine, personally I've grown and have a reputation to maintain for myself so I get it.
'CBH' was a cool and interesting video, one doesn't need to include sex, guts and gore to produce something "edgy". And "How Long" video was very interesting. But they are all safe (aside from the possible seizures triggered by CBH video).
His scores are fairly safe too, aside from the awesome retaliation scene in "TGWTDT".
Does TR need to put out something "edgy"? Maybe the "Edgy/Controversial" Trent Reznor was never the real Trent and this is what he struggles with... "thats not the real me, Im actually not that into shit like that".
Maybe TR needs to get behind the camera again.
As a consumer of all of his work; scoring is becoming a bit repetitive; does he want to become an Elfman?
Active Member
Here's a question: why SHOULD Trent & Atticus have to do something edgy? What do they have to prove by doing something that they've already done in the past? Just ask Marilyn Manson how trying to be shocking and provocative all these years has worked out for him. It seems like every music video he comes out with has some sort of shock value or celebrity cameo attached to it, and whatever attention is paid to them quickly burns out. Besides, what would be shocking and controversial in this day and age? The stuff you see in the Broken Movie or Closer isn't any more graphic or edgy than your average R-rated horror film. That sort of stuff is beyond played out at this point, and I'm sure Trent & Atticus are well aware of that.
I respect them for staying true to what THEY want to do, fans and critics be damned.
Throbbing Member
^ I totally agree with you BRoswell. In fact it's part of why NIN is so special; unlike many other artists NINs albums are all very unique sounding from one another. Almost each song sounds different from any other. That's fucking talent.
I still feel like TR has been a bit "Safe" lately, but I think his decisions have been good ones. I'll leave it to Rob Zombie to take care of "shock" productions. Manson is funny.
Additionally there's Eminem's recent "disses"; people are like "wow burnnn" but they are also like "Wow give it a rest cant you do anything else".
Active Member
The Trilogy is anything but safe. Buried lyrics, deliberately lo-fi production, weird structures, tense atmosphere. This is not something most people will enjoy. If you're talking about Satellite, sure, that's safe. She's Gone Away? Not a chance.
There have even been a few songs that have divided the devout fanbase. Burning Bright is one of them. God Break Down The Door was a shock to everyone. Some love it, some hate it. No one expected music like this from NIN, especially after Hesitation Marks.
Active Member
Well, saxophones are the Devil's horn, after all.
Throbbing Member
Very good and I appreciate you replying as my original understanding of 'safe", is not the right idea. I guess I was initially thinking about appearance and attitude, and even still I'm wrong. Sometimes I look back at things I've posted and wonder where my head was at. I kind of regret my post.
What you wrote is on point!
Down, but not out.
I can't imagine this not being a controversial NIN opinion at all on ETS. I'm sure I never posted it here before, because I didn't think too much of it until now.
Anyway, I don't know what it is, aside from how catchy it is, but Pretty Hate Machine has always been the most fun Nine Inch Nails record of all time, out of all of them to me, even until now. And all lyrics aside, I just get a very upbeat and chill vibe from it. (As in upbeat and chill at the very same time.)
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