Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[BenAkenobi]

reading all the fragile talk, i started wondering, if (Left) and (Right) were released separately (perhaps a full year apart), would it benefit Trent? would it benefit listeners? for 5 years now i play it one CD at a time, randomly. feels alright, not too diluted or bloated as others pointed out. i think (Right) can take the title The big come down.
--edit--

...Pilgrimage. I cannot fucking stand that shit...

How old are you?

[Khrz]

reading all the fragile talk, i started wondering, if (Left) and (Right) were released separately (perhaps a full year apart), would it benefit Trent? would it benefit listeners?

I started to think so a few years back. Trent already mentioned he probably should have gone the Radiohead route and make a Kid A/Amnesiac release instead of a double album, and yeah, I think so. The right side especially would have benefited from one more year of pondering, I think. Left is very coherent, while I consider Right to be a bit all over the place (damnit Starfuckers, you really fuck it up, I love you but it's true).

[Halo Infinity]

When considering and listening to Trent's previous endeavors and influences prior to NIN, Everything wasn't surprising to me at all. And aside from liking it, I think that's also why it didn't bother me at all too.

[eayost]

While The Fragile has more individual highs than With Teeth, I think when considered as a total package, With Teeth is a better album. :/

[nowimdowninit]

Trent needs to go ahead and go all Ozzy and get a teleprompter so he can get all the words right in at least one show.

[Fred]

I don't like Hurt very much. I love the Johnny Cash cover and the duet with David Bowie, but the Nine Inch Nails version mostly bores me, and yes. I already knew the original by heart when Cash covered it.

I've also always found Something I Can Never Have incredibly dull. More so than Hurt. Would someone just give him what he thinks he can't have so he'll step away from the confounded piano and play... I dunno, Reptile or something? It's not that Trent can't write quiet songs. I like Right Where It Belongs, Lights In the Sky, Find My Way and everything on Still. Except, of course, for that one song. Sigh.

Both songs have gotten infinitely better on the 2013 tour, though. In fact, the Outside Lands version of SICNH is the only recording of it I actually like. And as for Hurt, I love that they've been ditching it at more than a few European gigs this time around. Because, you know, maybe there are other ways of ending a gig than with drunken singalong and lighters/mobile phones ablaze?

[eversonpoe]

I want to violently molest Ilan.

you know, you could have gone with "i want to make sweet, sweet love to ilan" or "seduce him" or something...but you had to go with a rape joke?

[tony.parente]

you know, you could have gone with "i want to make sweet, sweet love to ilan" or "seduce him" or something...but you had to go with a rape joke?

You mirin her controversial nine inch nails related post in the controversial nine inch nails opinions thread brah?

[Sarah K]

I meant it in a BDSM consensual nonconsent way...

[Ichiro]

Why, oh why does Pilgrimage exist? If there ever was a single NIN song I could elide from an album, this disruptive blighter would be the one.

Nonetheless, I've come around to Even Deeper, a track I had never much cared for.

[Butterscotch]

Does disliking Pilgrimage count as a controversial opinion anymore? Because it actually seems to be a common opinion in this thread.

(for the record, I think it's an okay song)

[jesus]

I like "With Teeth"'s chorus

[Ichiro]

Does disliking Pilgrimage count as a controversial opinion anymore? Because it actually seems to be a common opinion in this thread.

(for the record, I think it's an okay song)

Yeah, that probably would have been better placed in the Random NIN Thoughs thread. For the record, I don't mind the song but it breaks the left side's flow too much for my taste. The Fragile, though its my favorite album, seems to suffer from a lack of pace and throwing in another instrumental at the end of the first disc (with Just like You Imagined and La Mer) doesn't help that either.

[Elke]

I LOVE PILGRIMAGE. I had no idea so many people disliked it! That's pretty sad...

[hani]

Pilgrimage is awesome. I never knew that so many NIN fans hate it. I always thought of it as a great concert opener, right there with Pinion and 999,999.

and about The Fragile being split in two - no way. never. it works so good when combined, sometimes I switch Left with Right and you know what? when the album starts with TWOIT and ends with TGB, it still works.

[tony.parente]

The only album better than With Teeth is The Fragile.

[allegro]

The sequencing (song order) on The Fragile is thanks to Bob E... I'm not gonna type his last name because he suddenly appears.

Like I said, I like Right. Only. And since there is no "narrative," the song order on Right means nothing. And Starfuckers works just fine in breaking up what could be monotony, works great. Thanks, BOB.

[eversonpoe]

The sequencing (song order) on The Fragile is thanks to Bob E... I'm not gonna type his last name because he suddenly appears.

Like I said, I like Right. Only. And since there is no "narrative," the song order on Right means nothing. And Starfuckers works just fine in breaking up what could be monotony, works great. Thanks, BOB.

is he the new beetlejuice?

[Tyson]

I like waiting five years for new albums. I didn't mind being bombarded with new stuff from 2005 to 2009, but after that and then going back to a five year wait I find the anticipation much more exhilarating. It could be nostalgia, but I find the build up to the new release much more satisfying than two "SURPRISE! NEW ALBUM!"s in the same year.

[allegro]

is he the new beetlejuice?

Pretty much, yeah. He has Google Alerts and POOF, he appears.

[screwdriver]

The sequencing (song order) on The Fragile is thanks to Bob E... I'm not gonna type his last name because he suddenly appears.

Like I said, I like Right. Only. And since there is no "narrative," the song order on Right means nothing. And Starfuckers works just fine in breaking up what could be monotony, works great. Thanks, BOB.

I don't think that's really fair. Since Bob E... used the analogy himself, I'll continue it. He was acting as editor to TR's "movie," and he provided the narrative flow. It was an act of collaboration. Doesn't mean the song order means nothing -- far from it. The grand auteur vision of NIN is sexy, but not really accurate, and acknowledging that doesn't subtract from the greatness.

[allegro]

I don't think that's really fair. Since Bob E... used the analogy himself, I'll continue it. He was acting as editor to TR's "movie," and he provided the narrative flow. It was an act of collaboration. Doesn't mean the song order means nothing -- far from it. The grand auteur vision of NIN is sexy, but not really accurate, and acknowledging that doesn't subtract from the greatness.

A "Narrative" means a story with a protagonist, a turning point, and a denouement. Bob may have assembled what TR described as basically a big mess of material he had no idea what to do with, but that's from the brain of Bob. Not Trent. Trent said his brain wasn't working properly and he had no idea what do with all that tons of material, and when Bob put it all together Trent said he cried. From relief. That's not saying that Bob shouldn't have stopped being a Yes Man and told Trent that a lot of that material should have been put aside for a separate project. Instead, Bob took the puzzle pieces and put it together to form Bob's Puzzle. Meanwhile, John Malm was over raiding some bank accounts instead of minding his client.

[Amaro]

Narrative aside, there was (and as there always is) still a musical flow to consider just as top priority. Bob's call, Trent left it up to him. And ultimately said yea. Definitely not a boring listen on Right, or Left, in my opinion. Beautiful messes.

[brokenfragility]

I like waiting five years for new albums. I didn't mind being bombarded with new stuff from 2005 to 2009, but after that and then going back to a five year wait I find the anticipation much more exhilarating. It could be nostalgia, but I find the build up to the new release much more satisfying than two "SURPRISE! NEW ALBUM!"s in the same year.

I agree with you, but an interesting point to make is how short-term the build-up/wait actually is. Sure its satisfying right now, but a couple years down the road no one will care how Hesitation Marks was released or marketed, it will be all about the music. Year Zero I think is the only one that really carries its marketing around with it because of the ARG, and it was the coolest way to market stuff IMO. I'm kind of disappointed in the stereotypical "release a couple singles and a video and make everyone wait for 3 months" way Hesitation Marks was marketed, even though, as you said, it was very satisfying to have to wait again after getting Ghosts and The Slip spur of the moment. I think some balance between the two would be ideal. I don't know, just talking out of my ass here, music marketing has intrigued me post-Year Zero.

[allegro]

Narrative aside, there was (and as there always is) still a musical flow to consider just as top priority. Bob's call, Trent left it up to him.

Well, yeah, "musical flow." Starfuckers does NOT mess up any "musical flow." Obviously, BOB agrees as he deliberately put it there. I'm assuming Bob knows better than most of us; I like the "musical flow" of Alice Cooper's "Love it to Death" and "Billion Dollar Babies" LPs, and I guess that's from the Brain of Bob, as well.

[Tyson]

I agree that from a marketing aspect YZ kicks all other NIN marketing in the behind, but I just like the waits. You have plenty of time to get to know an album before the next one is out. Although, some of this could come from the fact that nowadays you constantly have tweets, newsfeeds etc. talking about what's going on, where back in the pre-WT days you had no clue what TR was doing in those five years between albums, and the whole reveal as a surprise.

[TheRealNs1]

I think Welcome Oblivion and The Social Network score are some of the best albums Trent has ever released.

I love "Welcome Oblivion". Great album.

[[Shep]]

'Suck' bores the hell out of me, I wish Trent would stop performing it live.

[Butterscotch]

I actually like THTF a lot. It gets me pumped, and I love singing along with it.

[Amaro]

Well, yeah, "musical flow." Starfuckers does NOT mess up any "musical flow." Obviously, BOB agrees as he deliberately put it there. I'm assuming Bob knows better than most of us; I like the "musical flow" of Alice Cooper's "Love it to Death" and "Billion Dollar Babies" LPs, and I guess that's from the Brain of Bob, as well.

Starfuckers has to do with The Fragile, I think, no matter what people say about the essence or air about it. It compliments the narrative (...yes) AND the musical flow for where its at on Right, in the kinda same way as Everything does on the new record. Very generally same idea (because they're two way different songs). Bob put together a very interesting and very memorable sequence altogether with The Fragile, a massive part of how the album in particular was/is received.

There were very different takes on the track listing order, when it was to be a single side album; I have the sorta-rare Fragility book with the Expo board pictures of it in it, as well as some shots of some CD-Rs with TF tracks, which I suppose weren't necessarily actual intended listings. Nevertheless, other shots were attempted, and...cue Bob.