Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[nowimdowninit]

Peter Murphy was fucking awesome with NIN.

Now, that's controversial.

[allegro]

I kind of agree. When I was a teen and The Fragile came out, The Fragile Left was my shit, but as I've become older and wiser I much prefer TF Right now. Right had some way more experimental stuff and is fantastic (

"Ripe (with decay)" is my favorite song on The Fragile.

I also really like Starfuckers.

[eversonpoe]

"Ripe (with decay)" is my favorite song on The Fragile.

I also really like Starfuckers.

i think ripe (with decay) is the best single-song album closer trent has ever done. everything about that song is perfect.

i also dig starfuckers.

[howdidislipinto]

Even though I like the songs themselves, I kind of wish Broken could be erased from the NIN discography. It had too much of an influence on how people perceived the band for too long. I know that shouldn't matter, but for years when I talked about NIN the picture I'd try to get across in my head would be, say, the artistry behind The Persistence Of Loss/Leaving Hope... while other people, staring back at me, eyebrow cocked, definitely had the Broken image (and perhaps the fanbase that came along with that) still in their mind. I think the EP had far more impact than it deserved. It wish it had come and then disappeared off the face of the Earth when TDS arrived, like how all thoughts of An Omen disappeared once Welcome Oblivion arrived. (I know An Omen was literally an album preview and not a standalone EP, but you get my drift.) To me it should have been just a random halo for the hardcore fans to find, not a statement like the LPs.

[theSplinter04]

I still don't see why anyone would skip Pilgrimage. I fucking love that track!
and No You Don't.
and Letting You.
and Spoiler: Everything. It fits so perfectly

[allegro]

had the Broken image (and perhaps the fanbase that came along with that)

Broken was the second record after Pretty Hate Machine. And The Downward Spiral isn't a big departure from Broken; in fact, Broken is the prelude to The Downward Spiral. Pretty Hate Machine and Broken are SO different, people could barely believe they were from the same band (including me: I disliked Pretty Hate Machine until revisiting it 2 decades later). But hating an album because it attracted a certain kind of fan is a dumb reason for disliking an artist's work, don't you think? I remember being in a bar in Wrigleyville and Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" came blaring out of the PA and a bunch of really drunk stereotypical frat bros jumped up onto some chairs and started fist-pumping and dancing and, for a millisecond, I wanted to dislike Nirvana.

But I'm not that stupid.

[Halo Infinity]

Even though I like the songs themselves, I kind of wish Broken could be erased from the NIN discography. It had too much of an influence on how people perceived the band for too long. I know that shouldn't matter, but for years when I talked about NIN the picture I'd try to get across in my head would be, say, the artistry behind The Persistence Of Loss/Leaving Hope... while other people, staring back at me, eyebrow cocked, definitely had the Broken image (and perhaps the fanbase that came along with that) still in their mind. I think the EP had far more impact than it deserved. It wish it had come and then disappeared off the face of the Earth when TDS arrived, like how all thoughts of An Omen disappeared once Welcome Oblivion arrived. (I know An Omen was literally an album preview and not a standalone EP, but you get my drift.) To me it should have been just a random halo for the hardcore fans to find, not a statement like the LPs.

Yeah, while I understand that such a post is very true to the overall nature and being of this thread, picturing Nine Inch Nails without Broken is just flat-out wrong to me. That thought just made me picture Radiohead without The Bends, or Ministry without The Land of Rape and Honey, or Marilyn Manson without Antichrist Superstar just to give you an idea on other bands being used as an example.

[howdidislipinto]

Broken was the second record after Pretty Hate Machine. And The Downward Spiral isn't a big departure from Broken; in fact, Broken is the prelude to The Downward Spiral. Pretty Hate Machine and Broken are SO different, people could barely believe they were from the same band (including me: I disliked Pretty Hate Machine until revisiting it 2 decades later). But hating an album because it attracted a certain kind of fan is a dumb reason for disliking an artist's work, don't you think? I remember being in a bar in Wrigleyville and Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" came blaring out of the PA and a bunch of really drunk stereotypical frat bros jumped up onto some chairs and started fist-pumping and dancing and, for a millisecond, I wanted to dislike Nirvana.

But I'm not that stupid.

I hope it was clear that I'm not in that category. But I also wouldn't blame people that are or call them stupid. First impressions do matter, and if a certain type of NIN music video/fanbase was the loudest in the '90s, what exactly might inspire someone who WOULD like the other aspects of NIN but has no idea they exist to look further? When it comes down to it, I guess I'm saying that even when Trent gets loud and abrasive, there's an artistry to it (like TDS, obviously)... but I personally don't feel that on Broken. I like the songs, but subtract a few of the more intense production moments and those songs could be written by any heavy '90s band. That's not something I feel you can say for any other NIN material. It just doesn't fit well into the puzzle for me, and for such a small, insignificant release, it's had way too much of an impact.

People always say TDS = PHM+Broken, and I always thought that was incredibly disparaging to TDS -- nothing on Broken even touches the level of work on TDS, outside of occasional volume levels. Never understood it.

Marilyn Manson without Antichrist Superstar.

C'mon now, Marilyn Manson without his best album (or only good one, in my personal opinion) is NOT the same is NIN without Broken!

Also, despite all my criticisms of Broken, I love Gave Up and don't mind that it's still a live staple. I do think Wish is overrated and has no need to still be showing up at concerts. And Last is... kind of meh. /more controversy

[Dryalex12]

My favorite song from the PHM Era is the untitled hidden track from HLAH

[Halo Infinity]

People always say TDS = PHM+Broken, and I always thought that was incredibly disparaging to TDS -- nothing on Broken even touches the level of work on TDS, outside of occasional volume levels. Never understood it.

I suppose that we're going to just have to agree to disagree because I actually like Broken that much and I sometimes like to think of it as a second LP even if it is an EP, as I've mentioned earlier in the thread. And I'm also one of those people that thought it was very complimentary to The Downward Spiral. We're on completely opposite ends here.

C'mon now, Marilyn Manson without his best album (or only good one, in my personal opinion) is NOT the same is NIN without Broken!

Also, despite all my criticisms of Broken, I love Gave Up and don't mind that it's still a live staple. I do think Wish is overrated and has no need to still be showing up at concerts. And Last is... kind of meh. /more controversy

And I suppose that it still just boils down to me loving Broken that much, and that's just me. I agree with you on Gave Up though, and would actually like to hear more of Happiness In Slavery again, even though I also like Last a lot. I even see what you mean about Wish too. Not that I started disliking Wish, but I've clearly heard that song from Broken the most live. However, I don't think I'd ever get tired of hearing Pinion as a concert opener.

[allegro]

othing on Broken even touches the level of work on TDS, outside of occasional volume levels.

When did you start listening to Nine Inch Nails? I mean, with what album?

Because I think this is a lot like the "Which Alien is Best?" discussion; It all depends on which one you saw first. (Pretty much everybody agrees that the last Alien movie really sucked.)

If I had come in at around The Fragile, I wouldn't be in this forum discussing Nine Inch Nails. If I had not had Broken and TDS, I would have had zero interest in Nine Inch Nails. The Fragile did not resonate with me. At all. When Broken was released, I went "HEY, THIS IS AWESOME!!! I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GUY, BUT THIS IS GREAT STUFF! Is this really the same Pretty Hate Machine guy??" It wasn't Guns n Roses, it wasn't all that other metal crap during that period, it wasn't Pearl Jam, it was kinda kinky and sexy and hard and fun and dirty and gritty and the video for Wish was like Escape from New York. The "metal" people I knew didn't like ANY of it. At all. When The Downward Spiral was released, it was not much different from Broken. I put them together in the same category of brilliance. Preference is preference, but don't judge THE WORK based on preference, you know? "I don't like The Fragile" is not the same as "The Fragile is crap." I would never say the latter.

Being tired of songs because he plays them too many times live shouldn't affect the work, itself. If I never hear "Hurt" or "Closer" again, live, that would be fine with me, but that doesn't mean they aren't great songs.

I didn't want to go to any Nine Inch Nails shows during the Self Destruct tour because it involved way too much testosterone-fueled stupidity and I just don't like that kind of energy. But did I stop listening to Nine Inch Nails because of a bunch of douche bags at NIN shows? Because NIN attracted a bunch of douche bags because of The Downward Spiral? Of course not. I almost disliked NIN when all the Tickle Me Emo people showed up with The Fragile, but noooooooo ... I'm still here.

[Akuratyde]

Here's a controversial opinion:

Hesitation Marks is only okay.

[howdidislipinto]

When did you start listening to Nine Inch Nails? I mean, with what album?

Because I think this is a lot like the "Which Alien is Best?" discussion; It all depends on which one you saw first. (Pretty much everybody agrees that the last Alien movie really sucked.)

TDS was my first NIN album, and at this point I can't recall whether Broken or PHM came next (both were very close). I liked them both at the time -- since then, my love for PHM has grown leaps and bounds while Broken has sort of just stayed in the same spot. Part of it could be a personal issue with the production, too -- I think Broken has the lamest guitar sound in the entire NIN discography. The live versions of most of the songs are preferable. As I said earlier, I do feel like any '90s band could have put out something that approximates the Broken sound -- no '90s band could or did put out anything that approximates The Downward Spiral.

And just to further outline our differences in NIN-taste, I got The Fragile at the midnight release, late Monday night, made it home near 1am, tried to listen to as much as I could before my bullshit 6am wake up call for high school... and even though I think I only made it to WITT that first night, every fucking note resonated with me right away. Dorky as it sounds, it was maybe one of the most magical weeks of my life.

That's what makes NIN fun though. There's so much diversity in the catalogue that even two hardcore fans tastes need never intersect.

P.S. I might've seen Alien: Resurrection first. Definitely don't think it's the best, and I hope no one does, ha. But then I saw Alien and Aliens together and love them both passionately and equally, so maybe the theory does work.

[brokenfragility]

I do feel like any '90s band could have put out something that approximates the Broken sound

I just want to hop in and say WTF!? Broken is far more intricate than you think. Its cool that you don't like it as much as some other stuff, but don't say any 90s band could have made Broken, that is just insane. Happiness In Slavery!?

[howdidislipinto]

I just want to hop in and say WTF!? Broken is far more intricate than you think. Its cool that you don't like it as much as some other stuff, but don't say any 90s band could have made Broken, that is just insane. Happiness In Slavery!?

In my previous post I said "other than some of the more intense production moments" which was pretty much my way of saying "other than Happiness In Slavery."

[allegro]

I do feel like any '90s band could have put out something that approximates the Broken sound

I think there are a LOT of people, here, who would disagree with you, myself included. And, it's not just about the "sound," it's about the whole package. Broken represents the definite audible SHIFT that happened to Nine Inch Nails after Pretty Hate Machine.

[howdidislipinto]

I think there are a LOT of people, here, who would disagree with you, myself included. And, it's not just about the "sound," it's about the whole package. Broken represents the definite audible SHIFT that happened to Nine Inch Nails after Pretty Hate Machine.

Got to agree to disagree -- Broken to me stands alone, both in its production and simplicity, and doesn't at all represent or reflect what came afterwards. The comparison cheapens the later albums. Even if you take some of the potentially "Broken-like" songs from the later albums, like March Of The Pigs or Somewhat Damaged -- does anything on Broken even compare with those two tracks? Compare it to the only other EP we have, Still, and... goddamn, it's not even in the same ballpark. And Still fits in more in the discography, too. Beautifully, in fact. Such a good progression from The Fragile. To me, Broken just sticks out like a sore thumb.

I know lots of people will disagree. That's why I put it in Controversial NIN Opinions.

[allegro]

To me, Broken just sticks out like a sore thumb.

Broken in the Nine Inch Nails discography is as essential as "Paranoid" in the Black Sabbath discography.


But, you're right, we're allowed to disagree.

I gotta admit something, though: My not loving The Fragile isn't exactly news on this board; I've been here since January of 2004 so, technically, my comment was not "controversial" on ETS. Sorry.

[Krazy]

When did you start listening to Nine Inch Nails? I mean, with what album?

Because I think this is a lot like the "Which Alien is Best?" discussion; It all depends on which one you saw first. (Pretty much everybody agrees that the last Alien movie really sucked.)

If I had come in at around The Fragile, I wouldn't be in this forum discussing Nine Inch Nails. If I had not had Broken and TDS, I would have had zero interest in Nine Inch Nails. The Fragile did not resonate with me. At all. When Broken was released, I went "HEY, THIS IS AWESOME!!! I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GUY, BUT THIS IS GREAT STUFF! Is this really the same Pretty Hate Machine guy??" It wasn't Guns n Roses, it wasn't all that other metal crap during that period, it wasn't Pearl Jam, it was kinda kinky and sexy and hard and fun and dirty and gritty and the video for Wish was like Escape from New York. The "metal" people I knew didn't like ANY of it. At all. When The Downward Spiral was released, it was not much different from Broken. I put them together in the same category of brilliance. Preference is preference, but don't judge THE WORK based on preference, you know? "I don't like The Fragile" is not the same as "The Fragile is crap." I would never say the latter.

Being tired of songs because he plays them too many times live shouldn't affect the work, itself. If I never hear "Hurt" or "Closer" again, live, that would be fine with me, but that doesn't mean they aren't great songs.

I didn't want to go to any Nine Inch Nails shows during the Self Destruct tour because it involved way too much testosterone-fueled stupidity and I just don't like that kind of energy. But did I stop listening to Nine Inch Nails because of a bunch of douche bags at NIN shows? Because NIN attracted a bunch of douche bags because of The Downward Spiral? Of course not. I almost disliked NIN when all the Tickle Me Emo people showed up with The Fragile, but noooooooo ... I'm still here.

Thank you- for posting something I'd like to write. I'll disagree with the last live show part though. Nothing wrong with "kids" letting out some steam at a very intense live show. And no, I wasn't one of those meatheads (no pun intended) that would mosh into people that didn't want to.

Here's a controversial opinion:

Hesitation Marks is only okay.

I'll second that. It's got some decent spots but not digging it right now. I'm sure more listens will get me liking it more but nothing is really "sticking" (so to speak).

[aggroculture]

Impossible/Improbable Pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Fragile.
Yes, a fake news story was better than the reality of NIN's magnum opus.

And: the beginning of Came Back Haunted reminds me of this:

[Krazy]

Also not sure if this is a controversial opinion: when the big news came in February about new NIN album and tour, I was more excited about the tour. Wasn't sure what to expect with the new album but the festival shows haven't seemed to disappoint.

Im not pointing fingers, but for the people that say TR is in a better place and life has changed and glad he's happy and all (all of which I agree with), he's not completely different- he sure as fuck can still bring it to the stage despite age and family, and maybe better than anytime before (outside of the vocals losing a bit, but that's like me complaining about my mid-30's receding hair line). And his twitter rants always bring a smile/grin? to my face.

[tw3rbz]

My favorite song from the PHM Era is the untitled hidden track from HLAH

Woo! They're GOOD!!1!one

[ManBurning]

Here's a controversial opinion if there ever was one...

I'd rather get my hands on the Fragile Deluxe Reissue than listen to Hesitation Marks again...

[allegro]

I don't think anything pro-Fragile is very "controversial" on this board.

[ManBurning]

No, but not enjoying Hesitation Marks seems to be the new controversial opinion of the week on this board. I swear everyone on this board except me (and the trolls who register to just write "this album sucks" and fuck off) love this album more than anything on this planet.

[ninsp]

Pretty Hate Machine is half good, half god awful. When people praise it for being amazing, maybe for the time. Now it sounds like a product of its time. Many songs sound great, many sound awful.
Broken is...not very good.
With Teeth is...also...not very good.
Year Zero is better than Pretty Hate Machine and Broken.
The Slip is boring as shit.

Also, I really don't understand how any NIN fan could dislike Hesitation Marks. It, is, literally, the epitome of Nine Inch Nails.

[jesus]

it was so funny watching Trent as Darth Sidius in the Reading Festival, and fuck it! the way his voice sounded during The Warning LOL

[ManBurning]

I so Wish ETS never crashed and we had a well kept log of everyone's first impressions of albums like [With_Teeth], Year Zero, The Slip etc. as I am curious if everyone that says Hesitation Marks is the greatest thing since "The Fragile" only because it is new and fresh. Did all those people say the same about the previous NIN releases when they first came out? God, I wish I could go back in time and find those threads. Everyone making these "confessions" now that album "B" is better than album "A" makes you kind of wonder what those people's initial reaction to the album was.

Has time tainted our opinion on certain albums?

I would ESPECIALLY like to see this whole forums original opinion of "The Slip" oh holy mother of fuck, if any thread needs to come out of the archives it's that one. Something tells me EVERYONE hating on The Slip, loved the FUCK out of it when it first came out, and you want to know why? Because it was NEW NINE INCH NAILS, therefore it was automatically better than the last few records. I seriously believe this is how a new NIN record works, everyone loves it at first until a newer record comes out, or until other people start getting tired or bored of the album and start hating on it, that influences other people's opinions into maybe believing what they are hearing is true.

Long story short, in 2-5 years (hopefully sonner rather than later) when a new NIN record comes out, it will be better than Hesitation Marks automatically by default because it is new and this is old. If this board is still around in 5-10 years and all of you are still posting on here, I would like to see if any of you come to to this confessions thread to spill your heart out about forcing yourself to TRY and like the new album by just saying you liked it all along, but deep down hated it.

Not just The Slip, but [With_Teeth] as well, that gets alot of flack for being a crappy album. I thought the NIN community went BALLISTIC over that album when it came out. Put it on a pedastol like a brick of gold, because we never thought we would hear from TR ever again, so the fact he came back with one more round of tunes, we were happy. We didn't give a fuck what was on that album, we ate it all up.

But compared to Hesitation Marks, [With_Teeth] IS a gold brick, and it deserves to stay up on that pedastol.

[ninsp]

I so Wish ETS never crashed and we had a well kept log of everyone's first impressions of albums like [With_Teeth], Year Zero, The Slip etc. as I am curious if everyone that says Hesitation Marks is the greatest thing since "The Fragile" only because it is new and fresh. Did all those people say the same about the previous NIN releases when they first came out? God, I wish I could go back in time and find those threads. Everyone making these "confessions" now that album "B" is better than album "A" makes you kind of wonder what those people's initial reaction to the album was.

Has time tainted our opinion on certain albums?

I would ESPECIALLY like to see this whole forums original opinion of "The Slip" oh holy mother of fuck, if any thread needs to come out of the archives it's that one. Something tells me EVERYONE hating on The Slip, loved the FUCK out of it when it first came out, and you want to know why? Because it was NEW NINE INCH NAILS, therefore it was automatically better than the last few records. I seriously believe this is how a new NIN record works, everyone loves it at first until a newer record comes out, or until other people start getting tired or bored of the album and start hating on it, that influences other people's opinions into maybe believing what they are hearing is true.

Long story short, in 2-5 years (hopefully sonner rather than later) when a new NIN record comes out, it will be better than Hesitation Marks automatically by default because it is new and this is old. If this board is still around in 5-10 years and all of you are still posting on here, I would like to see if any of you come to to this confessions thread to spill your heart out about forcing yourself to TRY and like the new album by just saying you liked it all along, but deep down hated it.

Not just The Slip, but [With_Teeth] as well, that gets alot of flack for being a crappy album. I thought the NIN community went BALLISTIC over that album when it came out. Put it on a pedastol like a brick of gold, because we never thought we would hear from TR ever again, so the fact he came back with one more round of tunes, we were happy. We didn't give a fuck what was on that album, we ate it all up.

But compared to Hesitation Marks, [With_Teeth] IS a gold brick, and it deserves to stay up on that pedastol.

My initial reaction to With Teeth was "This is awful. Can't do it without the drugs, apparently." Wrong about the drug part, still awful.
My initial reaction to Year Zero was "This is amazing." Still is.
My initial reaction to The Slip was "This is OK. Feels like an EP." Still feel that way.

Stop making assumptions and putting words in people's mouths to try to make yourself feel better that people prefer an album you like to another one that everybody else likes. ETS was in no way this excited about YZ or The Slip after an early leak. Didn't go on ETS for With teeth so I can't comment.

Great way to make yourself feel better by trashing everyone else, though.

With Teeth is more like a golden turd. Notice it gets left out of the set, except for the two huge singles...even Trent knows it.

[Khrz]

Has time tainted our opinion on certain albums?

Time has given perspective, that's all.

Personally, I've been underwhelmed by With_Teeth from the release of THTF. I remember turning to my girlfriend (who wasn't a fan, but enjoyed NIN very much) and asking her "that's not so good, is it ?"
Eventually I warmed up to some of those tracks and embraced others, but it's the first time I bought a NIN CD from the bargain bin, instead of grabbing the mint CD as soon as released.

When we started to hear snippets of Year Zero I was extremely excited. At last something radically different and challenging. When the CD came out, I loved how it sounded, and still believe YZ is the most left-field NIN has been since TDS.

But I've never been that enthusiastic about every track on a NIN record as I have now. Considering that every NIN release has needed time to "percolate" so to speak, this enthusiasm could be considered a bad sign, but I know what I love, and it's not straightforwardness. I considered With_Teeth too "easy". Not the case here.

Oh, and I did, and still, consider The Slip as a very good, but somewhat uninteresting Best Of. Uninteresting in the sense that I know NIN, thank you, and know what Reznor is capable of. The Slip, to me, rehashes everything we know, and adds very few to the mix. The songs are great, but there's no evolution here. Time hasn't changed much of my opinion on that matter.

pedastol

*giggle*