Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[Kyle]

Sometimes, just sometimes, despite general reactions, you really want to listen to Kawehi's Closer.

So why the fuck has it been deleted off of youtube, and the why the fuck is vimeo's buffer time so slow? FUCK ME I'M RAGIN' SO HARD I'M GONNA CREATUE DUPLICATE UPLOADS FOR PUREST FEELING AND THE BUTCH VIG OR WHATEVER LAST REMIX GODDAMMIT

Upload the unicorn and puppies everything video. That will get attention.

[Shadaloo]

I'm not sure if this is controversial, but I fucking love Butch Vig's remix of Last, and have done so since it was just a shitty 11 kHz, 8-bit AIFF. Seems to be fairly divisive though. You either love it or hate it. I, for one, think it would have fit just fine on Fixed. It may well be my favourite NIN remix.

I would take a whole goddamn Butch Vig remix of Broken itself and that's no joke.

It's called the Throw This Away remix for whatever that's worth according to Butch.

[Fred]

It's a shame Trent saw fit to do just that.

[r_z]

All this talk about NIN, TR and his output in the 00s/10s had me thinking: Apart from maybe Radiohead, is there are more successful artist today, that got his breakthrough in the 90s, than Trent? There isn't really, is there? I mean he went independent, tried some things in terms of how to release music in this new climate. He keeps releasing music, that certainly follows a certain formula, but to be fair he never did the exact same thing twice. He took some risks with the music (Ghosts, Everything, ...), kept challenging himself. Got into scoring for movies. Won an Oscar. Apart from personal tastes... and I'm certainly not into NIN as I was 10 years ago... I highly respect Trent and his art.

[Calvatron]

Maybe david grohl.

[Krazy]

I guess it's how one would define "success". Are we talking about a band or one musician? Radiohead is brought up but that's a band. Pearl Jam and Tool (just to name a couple) will easily out sell NIN in regards to ticket sales, and probably album sales if they would release something in a similar time frame.

[r_z]

Well, creatively speaking, I guess.

[Krazy]

That's still very hard to measure, and probably impossible I guess. I mean is Danny Elfman "more successful" than Bono? I doubt it.

Theres Rob Zombie who had success in White Zombie and a solo career, on top of dabbling in decent horror filmmaking. Maynard James Keenan who had a lot of success in both Tool and APC and winemaking. Gwen Stefani in both No Doubt and a solo career, on top of her being in TV and fashion. Etc.

[Tyson]

The ARG turned NIN fans into Tool fans. By that, I mean people insisting there's more there than there actually is.

[Kyle]

I guess it's how one would define "success". Are we talking about a band or one musician? Radiohead is brought up but that's a band. Pearl Jam and Tool (just to name a couple) will easily out sell NIN in regards to ticket sales, and probably album sales if they would release something in a similar time frame.

Too would outsell NIN but mostly because they've been gone for so long that their fans are hungry for something new. If Tool consistently toured and released albums, they would probably be on par. Pearl Jam outsells NIN easily so commercially they're more successful but musically I don't know. You people think Trent follows a formula have you listened to Pearl Jam? They do what they do very well, but they rarely stray from it.

Someone said Dave Grohl and that's a yes. He's remained relevant consistently for a long long time, whether you like his music or not (because I'm trying to keep subjective tastes out of this)

[Jon]

I'm sure he had distanced himself from the Coil guys due to either their completely out of control, "ritualistic" drug use or perhaps a falling out over them not signing to Nothing – TFA doesn't have them on it, but Peter Christopherson is on "Driver Down" and the Quake soundtrack, Jhonn dies a few years later, and except for the planned collaboration with Peter on HTDA, they never reappear in the discography – and, I dunno, maybe he was burned by Aphex Twin refusing to actually listen to his music? That's pretty harsh, even for Aphex.

Was this ever confirmed? I suggested years ago in this very thread that Peter Christopherson was part of the Quake soundtrack and was ridiculed.

As far as Richard D. James, he always does his own thing. I believe @botley said, "par for the course".

I'd have to go back through and look for the title now, but one of the songs from the user18081971 SoundCloud dump incorporates most of the elements from "At The Heart Of It All".

EDIT:

[Senateguard33]

Was this ever confirmed? I suggested years ago in this very thread that Peter Christopherson was part of the Quake soundtrack and was ridiculed.

I have heard that a couple times as well, and I can totally see that too, even if it's just samples that Trent and Co. borrowed. Does anyone have more info on this?

I'm sure he had distanced himself from the Coil guys due to either their completely out of control, "ritualistic" drug use or perhaps a falling out over them not signing to Nothing – TFA doesn't have them on it, but Peter Christopherson is on "Driver Down" and the Quake soundtrack, Jhonn dies a few years later, and except for the planned collaboration with Peter on HTDA, they never reappear in the discography – and, I dunno, maybe he was burned by Aphex Twin refusing to actually listen to his music? That's pretty harsh, even for Aphex.

There wasn't any distancing between him and Coil. Peter and Jhonn were more falling out with themselves. They weren't quite happy with the album to be released on Nothing (Backwards) and there are, in fact, a few different versions of that album. They would sort of split Coil up for a short period and record under different pseudonyms (Elph, Black Light District, Time Machines, etc) before bringing Coil back to life. Trent worked with Peter on a few projects during this period, the aforementioned Lost Highway track, several NIN video pieces, etc. Peter was supposed to be part of the HTDA project in a limited capacity sort of way (providing samples and textures) but of course his untimely death happened. Originally Trent reached out to him for permission to use the name "How To Destroy Angels", which Peter thought was unnecessary, but referred to Trent as "the perfect gentlemen, as always"

Can't comment on Aphex Twin, sorry, but I do love the tracks he contributed.

[MrLobster]

The shipping issues are a part of the new ARG.

He wanted to create tension and angst for the new stuff...

[Pbgut]

I have heard that a couple times as well, and I can totally see that too, even if it's just samples that Trent and Co. borrowed. Does anyone have more info on this?



There wasn't any distancing between him and Coil. Peter and Jhonn were more falling out with themselves. They weren't quite happy with the album to be released on Nothing (Backwards) and there are, in fact, a few different versions of that album. They would sort of split Coil up for a short period and record under different pseudonyms (Elph, Black Light District, Time Machines, etc) before bringing Coil back to life. Trent worked with Peter on a few projects during this period, the aforementioned Lost Highway track, several NIN video pieces, etc. Peter was supposed to be part of the HTDA project in a limited capacity sort of way (providing samples and textures) but of course his untimely death happened. Originally Trent reached out to him for permission to use the name "How To Destroy Angels", which Peter thought was unnecessary, but referred to Trent as "the perfect gentlemen, as always"

Can't comment on Aphex Twin, sorry, but I do love the tracks he contributed.

That is true – I was thinking that during the Fragile period, they sort of rekindled Coil for one of the longest runs before Jhonn died, including Musick, which was quite a shift from what Backwards would have been. And they also did a run of live shows. But I guess Jhonn was pretty far gone at that point – a couple of horrible, sad stories of alcohol-induced psychosis and hospitalizations before his death.

I also had misremembered an interview from a Quake level designer, American McGee, where he said the entire NIN camp worked on the soundtrack, despite it being credited entirely to Trent: http://qaddicted.com/interviews/americanmcgee. I suppose it's possible Peter worked on it too, but I can't find any sources. Sneaky Trent. No wonder Danny Lohner looped "I am really a liar" on that Where Is Everybody remix.

[Pbgut]

As far as Richard D. James, he always does his own thing. I believe @botley said, "par for the course".

I'd have to go back through and look for the title now, but one of the songs from the user18081971 SoundCloud dump incorporates most of the elements from "At The Heart Of It All."

Hah, yep – I first heard that on a bootleg called the Joyrex tape that was leaked in the early 2010s and had a 'holy shit' moment. Seems like he really industrialized it up for Trent. Must be from the Ventolin era.

I do remember him saying he also refused to listen to The Lemonheads, now that I think about it. But that's straight up rock music. And a lot of the 26 Mixes include at least some element of the original song in them, so ... I dunno. I say: slightly more harsh than usual to give someone who makes electronic music an entirely new track of your own making, even if it's par for the course in general. Splitting hairs maybe

[Jon]

Hah, yep – I first heard that on a bootleg called the Joyrex tape that was leaked in the early 2010s and had a 'holy shit' moment. Seems like he really industrialized it up for Trent. Must be from the Ventolin era.

I do remember him saying he also refused to listen to The Lemonheads, now that I think about it. But that's straight up rock music. And a lot of the 26 Mixes include at least some element of the original song in them, so ... I dunno. I say: slightly more harsh than usual to give someone who makes electronic music an entirely new track of your own making, even if it's par for the course in general. Splitting hairs maybe

Are you talking about track 5 ("World Waver")? There was also a version of that released with the SoundCloud dump. I have no doubt that is the same metallic percussion slowed down for "At The Heart Of It All". "2 Pcp 2 [unreleased Version]" seemed to have more of the elements present overall.

[Pbgut]

Are you talking about track 5 ("World Waver")? There was also a version of that released with the SoundCloud dump. I have no doubt that is the same metallic percussion slowed down for "At The Heart Of It All". "2 Pcp 2 [unreleased Version]" seemed to have more of the elements present overall.

I think I meant just the How to Science version (track 2), maybe missing a drum hit within the third beat in the second bar? It's the same pattern with different sounds. I didn't go through a lot of the SC dump but it is on there. The World Weaver track on YouTube sounds like a totally different thing, maybe the titles are switched? And yeah - never heard 2 Pcp 2, but those seem to be some of the same sounds. "The Beauty of Being Numb" is similar in its goofiness to a lot of the Melodies on Mars tracks, which was also made around the time FTDS was being put together.

I'm glad that Aphex Twin is such a jerk, or I wouldn't have been introduced to him through NIN.

[Jon]

I think I meant just the How to Science version (track 2), maybe missing a drum hit within the third beat in the second bar? It's the same pattern with different sounds. I didn't go through a lot of the SC dump but it is on there. The World Weaver track on YouTube sounds like a totally different thing, maybe the titles are switched? And yeah - never heard 2 Pcp 2, but those seem to be some of the same sounds. "The Beauty of Being Numb" is similar in its goofiness to a lot of the Melodies on Mars tracks, which was also made around the time FTDS was being put together.

I was specifically talking about the clangy, metallic "percussion" that is present throughout several of the Joyrex tracks. Track 2 does seem to resemble "At The Heart Of It All" very closely, though. I honestly never noticed that. It also predates the rest of the examples, yes?

[paul_guyet]

I get bummed every time I think about what Reznor, Sleazy and Balance could've come up with if given the time. I like to think the original "Heaven's Blade" is a good example of the three of them, but I've got no proof Reznor worked on that, just that it was recorded at Nothing.

[Pbgut]

I was specifically talking about the clangy, metallic "percussion" that is present throughout several of the Joyrex tracks. Track 2 does seem to resemble "At The Heart Of It All" very closely, though. I honestly never noticed that. It also predates the rest of the examples, yes?

I didn't see any dates for the track – but I heard it again, it's definitely the same rhythm pattern with different samples – and it sounds like the samples from Wonder Wave! Thus my holy shit moment. I have spent way too much of my life fooling around with drum machines and soft synths so I think I'm just used to hearing patterns at this point.

[botley]

Was this ever confirmed? I suggested years ago in this very thread that Peter Christopherson was part of the Quake soundtrack and was ridiculed.

As far as Richard D. James, he always does his own thing. I believe @botley said, "par for the course".

I'd have to go back through and look for the title now, but one of the songs from the user18081971 SoundCloud dump incorporates most of the elements from "At The Heart Of It All".

The Mescalinum United remixes on Aphex Twin's Classics, plus the new track on the Soundcloud dump, all date from the same era as "At the Heart of It All," yes. Probably just something on an old tape that Richard D. James had lying around, and gave to the courier who came to pick up the DAT master. This was known to be his routine back when he'd get top dollar for remixing tracks to an unrecognizable state (remember, his anthology was called 26 Mixes for Cash). Richard just revealed how he would ask to meet record company reps in random locations around London to deliver these so no one would be able to figure out where he lived. Shades of banksy...

[Pbgut]

I get bummed every time I think about what Reznor, Sleazy and Balance could've come up with if given the time. I like to think the original "Heaven's Blade" is a good example of the three of them, but I've got no proof Reznor worked on that, just that it was recorded at Nothing.

We at least have the Coil remixes of NIN, which are still some of the most imaginative rearrangements of a song I've ever heard. The "Precursor" remix of Closer is still stunning to me – it totally captures the mood of the lyrics in a way the original doesn't (rather than the way that the song is generally interpreted due to the famous chorus line and the disco-funk sound). Same with the non-'Polite' "Eraser" remixes on FTDS. "Gave Up" is an amazing track that borrows some techniques from "In My Blood" on the Backwards demo bootleg, and again works as well as a totally otherworldly soundscape as much as it does a conceptual reimagining of the words. I don't know how they worked on that level on so, so many drugs. I always disliked how NIN was kind of put down as this group with incredibly "dumb" or "simplistic" lyrics – when I think it's sort of unusually brainy in its own way, on some albums more than others. When you add Coil to it, it's just magic.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the Backwards we have is released quasi-officially by Danny Hyde and has no credits at all. They never signed to Nothing, so I'm guessing that Trent doesn't own it, but there must be other legal reasons for not mentioning who did what. (Or just outright laziness). Backwards helped ignite some nostalgia/appreciation for the 90s for me, which I was sort of too young at certain points to fully appreciate.

I always found it funny in retrospect that I loved these remixes as, like a 10 year old kid. I was realizing I was gay, and kind of felt uncomfortable about it in my town, and here I was listening to music by this incredibly well-known (for industrial, left-field musicians), insanely talented gay couple without even knowing it. They should have had pride flags next to those tracks, dammit.

[botley]

Speaking of the 90s, I forgot how bonkers it is that there was a fucking Levi's 501 television commercial with "The Art of Self Destruction, Part One" in it.



Not a Coil track, mind you (this was remixed by NIN themselves) but depending on where and when this aired it must have royally freaked people out.

[GentlemanLoser]

No, that's on par for Aphex

I seem to remember reading somewhere that he did a remix for someone, and they listened to it and were like, "This is a totally different song, where is the original song in this?" To which Mr. James responded, "I sped up your track to a fraction of a second long. Do you hear the hi hats? Those are the original song."

[TheRealNs1]

//edit

ah n/m

[TheRealNs1]

Too would outsell NIN but mostly because they've been gone for so long that their fans are hungry for something new. If Tool consistently toured and released albums, they would probably be on par.

Tool has toured pretty much every year since 2007. They just do ~10 shows at a time, and do that once or twice a year.

[botley]

Tool has toured pretty much every year since 2007. They just do ~10 shows at a time, and do that once or twice a year.

Seems like NIN is planning to start touring on that kind of calendar, too. Might be a good idea to keep things fresh.

[TheRealNs1]

Seems like NIN is planning to start touring on that kind of calendar, too. Might be a good idea to keep things fresh.

As a Tool fan who has seen almost every tour since 2007, ask me how well that works out.

[Bachy]

I don't like Trent incorporating "The Only Time" to "Closer."

[eversonpoe]

We at least have the Coil remixes of NIN, which are still some of the most imaginative rearrangements of a song I've ever heard. The "Precursor" remix of Closer is still stunning to me – it totally captures the mood of the lyrics in a way the original doesn't (rather than the way that the song is generally interpreted due to the famous chorus line and the disco-funk sound). Same with the non-'Polite' "Eraser" remixes on FTDS. "Gave Up" is an amazing track that borrows some techniques from "In My Blood" on the Backwards demo bootleg, and again works as well as a totally otherworldly soundscape as much as it does a conceptual reimagining of the words. I don't know how they worked on that level on so, so many drugs. I always disliked how NIN was kind of put down as this group with incredibly "dumb" or "simplistic" lyrics – when I think it's sort of unusually brainy in its own way, on some albums more than others. When you add Coil to it, it's just magic.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the Backwards we have is released quasi-officially by Danny Hyde and has no credits at all. They never signed to Nothing, so I'm guessing that Trent doesn't own it, but there must be other legal reasons for not mentioning who did what. (Or just outright laziness). Backwards helped ignite some nostalgia/appreciation for the 90s for me, which I was sort of too young at certain points to fully appreciate.

I always found it funny in retrospect that I loved these remixes as, like a 10 year old kid. I was realizing I was gay, and kind of felt uncomfortable about it in my town, and here I was listening to music by this incredibly well-known (for industrial, left-field musicians), insanely talented gay couple without even knowing it. They should have had pride flags next to those tracks, dammit.

"the new backwards" that was released in conjuction with "the ape of naples" is also a nice alternate version of what "backwards" could have been. between those two albums and the more recently released danny hyde version of backwards, plus the original demos, i think we have every possible version of those songs.