Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[WorzelG]

I really liked this review of With Teeth, that seemed to be negative at the start particularly about lyrics, but ends up positive because of the music

http://www.drawerb.com/2005/06/20/ni...th-interscope/

I think NIN get too raw a deal from reviews because of the lyrics, it seems to me because music critics are journalists and write for a living, they put undue emphasis on lyrics rather than music. I mean if you're going to slag off NIN for poor lyrics, how come Morrissey doesn't get anywhere near enough slagging for his solo output being interchangeable jangly guitar indie landfill music? because they like the lyrics (I was so disappointed when I got the 'world of morrissey' which was supposed to be a best of and every song sounded the same - except I did love the Moon River cover). Sorry but if lyrics are your thing and music doesn't figure, become an author

[r_z]

http://www.drawerb.com/2005/06/20/ni...th-interscope/

That's a great review. Thanks for posting.

[implanted_microchip]

I roll my eyes whenever people call That's What I Get and Kinda I Want To "stupid" or "immature" yet wank themselves silly over The Only Time.

I've honestly never understood the problem people have with Kinda I Want To. It's really no different from the rest of PHM lyrically and musically it's fine; I feel like half the reason people trash it so much is because TR himself said he doesn't like it (and if people are going to go with that, then we all have to not like Broken, the Woodstock performance, and Ruiner's guitar solo, too.)

[icecream]

I really liked this review of With Teeth, that seemed to be negative at the start particularly about lyrics, but ends up positive because of the music

http://www.drawerb.com/2005/06/20/ni...th-interscope/

I think NIN get too raw a deal from reviews because of the lyrics, it seems to me because music critics are journalists and write for a living, they put undue emphasis on lyrics rather than music. I mean if you're going to slag off NIN for poor lyrics, how come Morrissey doesn't get anywhere near enough slagging for his solo output being interchangeable jangly guitar indie landfill music? because they like the lyrics (I was so disappointed when I got the 'world of morrissey' which was supposed to be a best of and every song sounded the same - except I did love the Moon River cover). Sorry but if lyrics are your thing and music doesn't figure, become an author

Kanye's lyrics are always pretty lame. Yeezus got great reviews. some of his lyrics made me cringe, but I found the music to be pretty good. People who write reviews seem to judge 50% on content and 50% on hipness. Kanye is hot while NIN is that band you liked in highschool. That's how I see it anyway. Morrissey is cool, he gets pretty good reviews too.

[Krazy]

Wow, I'm actually shocked about the hate that TR's lyrics get overall. Yes- there's some songs that aren't all that great (the most recent that comes to mind directly is All Time Low- sounds like Paul Stanley tried doing a rap song/everything needs to rhyme; or CBH generic stuff- actually a lot off HM), but the good/intelligent/personal lyrics over his career far outweigh the bad.

Still not a fan of HM, giving up at this point. outside of Ghosts (which I don't consider a NIN album anyways- was a better way of marketing rather than something like 'Trent Reznor presents: Ghosts- a soundtrack to daydreams') it's the only NIN album I can't find anything to connect with or even entertaining musically. I like Copy of a but more for its live performance.

Which leads ads to the next album that TR hinted at. There was an 'expectations' thread prior to HM's release. I honestly don't have any for the next album, whenever that may be (guessing second half of 2015?? Still will be before Tool!!)

[implanted_microchip]

Wow, I'm actually shocked about the hate that TR's lyrics get overall. Yes- there's some songs that aren't all that great (the most recent that comes to mind directly is All Time Low- sounds like Paul Stanley tried doing a rap song/everything needs to rhyme; or CBH generic stuff- actually a lot off HM), but the good/intelligent/personal lyrics over his career far outweigh the bad.

Still not a fan of HM, giving up at this point. outside of Ghosts (which I don't consider a NIN album anyways- was a better way of marketing rather than something like 'Trent Reznor presents: Ghosts- a soundtrack to daydreams') it's the only NIN album I can't find anything to connect with or even entertaining musically. I like Copy of a but more for its live performance.

Which leads ads to the next album that TR hinted at. There was an 'expectations' thread prior to HM's release. I honestly don't have any for the next album, whenever that may be (guessing second half of 2015?? Still will be before Tool!!)

Just out of curiosity, how'd you feel about The Slip? Musically it seemed pretty close to Ghosts and lyrically HM is pretty damn similar.

[Krazy]

Just out of curiosity, how'd you feel about The Slip? Musically it seemed pretty close to Ghosts and lyrically HM is pretty damn similar.

To be fair I knew what TS was- a quickie free NIN album. I'll agree to disagree about it being similar to Ghosts- would pen it more towards the B-sides of WT, feels a bit more like a "rock" album and there's lyrics and what not. I can also get into a few of TS songs like 1 mil (and 999,999 is a satisfying intro- particularly with the LITS tour), Discipline, and couple more.

[Ryan]

as black as the night can get
everything is safer now
there's always a way to forget
once you learn to find a way how

in the blur of serenity
where did everything get lost?
the flowers of naivete
buried in a layer of frost

the smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes

thought he had it all before they called his bluff
found out that his skin just wasn't thick enough
wanted to go back to how it was before
thought he lost everything
then he lost a whole lot more

a fool's devotion
swallowed up in empty space
the tears of regret
frozen to the side of his face

the smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes

I've done all I can do
could I please come with you?
sweet smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes



Yes, Trent can't write lyrics at all...

[implanted_microchip]

Also don't forget In This Twilight, Head Down, Right Where It Belongs, The Line Begins to Blur, Even Deeper, Zero-Sum, Ruiner, And All That Could Have Been, Happiness In Slavery, Me, I'm Not, The Great Below, In Two, Home, While I'm Still Here, Lights In the Sky, Love Is Not Enough, etc.

Honestly the amount of NIN songs with good to great lyrics are pretty high and the lesser ones are absolutely the minority. He may revisit a lot of themes and have recurring phrases, but that's pretty common for artists of any medium -- Stephen King has alcoholics, Tarantino has trunk shots and violence, and Trent Reznor cannot stop slipping away with all these things put inside of him. Big deal?

Oh and a lot of people complain about CBH's final chant but let me be the one to point out that it's basically the same thing as Discipline with more words, a song generally accepted as pretty okay.

[m15a]

I've honestly never understood the problem people have with Kinda I Want To. It's really no different from the rest of PHM lyrically and musically it's fine; I feel like half the reason people trash it so much is because TR himself said he doesn't like it (and if people are going to go with that, then we all have to not like Broken, the Woodstock performance, and Ruiner's guitar solo, too.)

Oh, no. I disliked Kinda I Want To since before I even had internet, so I definitely didn't even know TR didn't like it. It definitely stood out as sounding super corny as a teenager - mind you, in retrospect, I think of that as more a personal fault of mine (not being able to listen past that corniness). I don't think it had anything to do with the lyrics, either, since I don't really listen to lyrics much. These days, I still am not a huge fan of the version on PHM, but I am not a huge fan of PHM as a whole, and I actually like the demo version.

Weirdly, That's What I Get was one of my favorite songs from PHM. I didn't know it was thought of as a lesser song until years later. And I didn't know Terrible Lie was such a big hit (at least at live shows).

::shrugs::

[screwdriver]

also don't forget in this twilight, head down, right where it belongs, the line begins to blur, even deeper, zero-sum, ruiner, and all that could have been, happiness in slavery, me, i'm not, the great below, in two, home, while i'm still here, lights in the sky, love is not enough, etc.

Honestly the amount of nin songs with good to great lyrics are pretty high and the lesser ones are absolutely the minority. He may revisit a lot of themes and have recurring phrases, but that's pretty common for artists of any medium -- stephen king has alcoholics, tarantino has trunk shots and violence, and trent reznor cannot stop slipping away with all these things put inside of him. Big deal?

thank you <3

[AlanMorlock]

Also don't forget In This Twilight, Head Down, Right Where It Belongs, The Line Begins to Blur, Even Deeper, Zero-Sum, Ruiner, And All That Could Have Been, Happiness In Slavery, Me, I'm Not, The Great Below, In Two, Home, While I'm Still Here, Lights In the Sky, Love Is Not Enough, etc.

Honestly the amount of NIN songs with good to great lyrics are pretty high and the lesser ones are absolutely the minority. He may revisit a lot of themes and have recurring phrases, but that's pretty common for artists of any medium -- Stephen King has alcoholics, Tarantino has trunk shots and violence, and Trent Reznor cannot stop slipping away with all these things put inside of him. Big deal?

Oh and a lot of people complain about CBH's final chant but let me be the one to point out that it's basically the same thing as Discipline with more words, a song generally accepted as pretty okay.

What makes me laugh is that some of those recurring phrases tend to come up for Trent even in conversations and interviews, "a million miles away." in particular.

[WorzelG]

Kanye's lyrics are always pretty lame. Yeezus got great reviews. some of his lyrics made me cringe, but I found the music to be pretty good. People who write reviews seem to judge 50% on content and 50% on hipness. Kanye is hot while NIN is that band you liked in highschool. That's how I see it anyway. Morrissey is cool, he gets pretty good reviews too.

Do people see kanye's lyrics as 'ironic' though? I found Yeesus musically ok but a lot of the songs seemed to jump around in genres mid-song which I found annoying, like he doesn't think people have the attention span.

[AlanMorlock]

The difference being Only is a good song.

[icecream]

Do people see kanye's lyrics as 'ironic' though? I found Yeesus musically ok but a lot of the songs seemed to jump around in genres mid-song which I found annoying, like he doesn't think people have the attention span.

I have no idea, people seem to love his lyrics though and justify their badness. I have heard/ read him being called the voice of my generation. With lyrics like his, I feel there are better out there. As to the music, apparently the album was a mess a few weeks before the deadline and they had Rick Rubin come in and try to salvage some of it. I noticed the jumping around too, but it didn't bother me as much. I just think there are better experimental rap albums out there. All hype and not much content but still more interesting than the other major releases out last year.

[Kyle]

I kinda liked the jumping around in genres mid-song, but then again I'm a Mr Bungle fan.

[m15a]

Yeah, I haven't heard Yeezus, but there is plenty of music that changes suddenly and rapidly. Strange to jump to the conclusion that it's because of some expected limitation of the listener. It's like saying that gradual or minimal music is designed for stupid people. (The statement struck a nerve because I do write and listen to more gradual music and some people do say that sort of thing. Same with experimental music being meant to shock people.)

[MAD]

as black as the night can get
[...]
Yes, Trent can't write lyrics at all...

Those are some of my favorite lyrics..

[katara]

Otherwise I adore Find My Way, but the lyrics always force my teeth to grind. HM in general is one big contrasty hit n' miss party of lyrics.

As the thread demands, let me put it controversially enough:

The song might also be seen as kind of a mantra or chant in which repetition is important for the prayer.

[WorzelG]

Yeah, I haven't heard Yeezus, but there is plenty of music that changes suddenly and rapidly. Strange to jump to the conclusion that it's because of some expected limitation of the listener. It's like saying that gradual or minimal music is designed for stupid people. (The statement struck a nerve because I do write and listen to more gradual music and some people do say that sort of thing. Same with experimental music being meant to shock people.)

I see Kanye as a mainstream act so I go into it, perhaps unfairly, thinking about how he's trying to pull the audience in. I noticed that some of lady gaga's stuff has that genre changing within songs lately too so I just think of it as a new thing! I don't listen to anywhere near enough music now anyway. But I guess I love the theme to tetsuo, which changes suddenly and the more you listen to it, a certain symmetry in the noise becomes apparent. I give NIN a lot of chances to grow on me though, which i don't have the time or inclination to give to everyone!

[fillow]

Woah hold on a second. Someone mentioned Me, I'm Not and good lyrics in one sentence? Really?
I mean it's not bad, but as generic as lyrics can possibly get.

[Ryan]

hey
can we stop?
me
i'm not
heyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Kyle]

And why are we bringing Kanye into this anyway? "In the french-ass restaurant. Hurry up with my damn croissants" is a level of poetry Trent (and the rest of us) can only dream of.

[BenAkenobi]

hey
can we stop?
me
i'm not
heyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Dude, this song's charm isn't in the lyrics. It's in the late night bus or train ride when there's barely any people around and the book has been finished but you don't want to fall asleep and just stare at the window trying to find focus between distant lights and tiny spots on glass. Tomorrow awaits, yesterday never returns...

[HurtinMinorKey]

Yeah, I haven't heard Yeezus, but there is plenty of music that changes suddenly and rapidly. Strange to jump to the conclusion that it's because of some expected limitation of the listener. It's like saying that gradual or minimal music is designed for stupid people. (The statement struck a nerve because I do write and listen to more gradual music and some people do say that sort of thing. Same with experimental music being meant to shock people.)

Kanye's lyrics are bad AND his flow is terrible. He's a good producer, that's about it.

[ophelia_]

Kinda like a cloud I was up, way up in the sky and I was feeling some feelings you wouldn't believe.

The only time I've ever facepalmed at TRs "bad" lyrics.

[implanted_microchip]

Woah hold on a second. Someone mentioned Me, I'm Not and good lyrics in one sentence? Really?
I mean it's not bad, but as generic as lyrics can possibly get.

The verses themselves as apocalyptic sci-fi are pretty good, as are a lot of YZ.

"I can swallow it down
Keep it all inside
I define myself by how well I hide
Feel it coming apart
Well, at least I tried
I can win in this war by
Knowing not to fight
If I could take it all back
Someway, somehow --
If I knew back then
What I know right now--"

Like, I'm not trying to claim that they're his best lyrics ever of all time, but in context of the song and album they really help craft an atmosphere and build the theme pretty strongly and get the job done.

[Krazy]

Kanye's lyrics are bad AND his flow is terrible. He's an over-rated producer, that's about it.

Fixed. Seriously, every time someone has to justify Kanye West they bring up his production. It gets old- like Nickelback jokes (no, not a fan or sticking up for them either). I'll give credit that it's better than a lot of hip-hop but it's far from great. (IMHO)

[m15a]

Fixed. Seriously, every time someone has to justify Kanye West they bring up his production. It gets old- like Nickelback jokes (no, not a fan or sticking up for them either). I'll give credit that it's better than a lot of hip-hop but it's far from great. (IMHO)

Nobody should have to justify why they like the music they like, though. Sure, if someone likes music I don't like, I'd be interested to know what they're hearing. But they shouldn't have to convince me to like it, and I shouldn't convince then to dislike it - that's an absurd argument because people hear and appreciate different things in music.

[screwdriver]

Kanye's lyrics are bad AND his flow is terrible. He's a good producer, that's about it.

"too many urkels on your team, that's why your wins low" is the best lyric, ever, in all of time