Really.
Regardless of whether it's a figure of speech or some crappy meme, it's toxic, perpetuating our differences while adding nothing to the conversation. Homophobic words like "gay" (and "fag"; see Bill & Ted) were used as derogatory terms to describe anything (or anybody) bad in the '90s (something which continues to this day). That was just a "figure of speech" at the time. Does that mean it was okay? I don't think so.
Race is irrelevant to Nine Inch Nails (aside from that one line in God Given). Trent could be any race on the planet and it wouldn't matter; the lyrics are universally relateable.
I honestly don't care whether you like the song or not. This is a thread for controversial opinions, after all. However, I find it absolutely bizarre that you have over 1800 posts on here and yet you call out Sunspots of all songs for "white guy rhyming".
I never want to hear Hurt or Head Like A Hole ever again. They are so played.
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 02-16-2020 at 02:30 PM. Reason: I forgot to mention it sooner. =P
You're right. Thing is, every NIN show is going to be someone's first, and these songs are expected to be played.
I'd like it if they rotated them. Every tour, pick a couple of similar songs and switch them out. Instead of HLAH, they could play Less Than one night, then maybe THTF, then back to HLAH, etc. Instead of Hurt, it could be The Great Below, SICNH, Lights In The Sky. The back catalogue is pretty huge. Except... people just want to hear these old songs they've played a thousand times before (HLAH currently has been played 940 times according to setlist.fm). It's fine, but it's boring. Personally, I love HLAH. Hurt is a sing-along... which I don't enjoy all that much.
Trent has said in the past that he never wants to become a nostalgia act. This is somewhat at odds with how they tour, where the setlist is mostly kept the same (last USA tour notwithstanding). That said, there is a decent mix of old and new in there. I suppose with such a massive list of songs to pull from, some inevitably fall to the back of the pile if they're difficult or not fun to play.
But fuck it, I don't give a shit if Trent hates The Perfect Drug. I want to hear that (please).
I added to the conversation, you didn't like it, called me toxic, and proceeded to give me a history lesson about the word gay and fag using Bill & Ted. I'm white, Trent is white, I accurately called it "white guy rhyming". The only person trying to perpetuate our differences is you with your sermon.
Take some time off the Internet and stop trying to find things to be offended about.
I didn't call you toxic, I called the figure of speech toxic.
It's important to learn from history.
Please note that you're the one who originally posted the comment (that does perpetuate our differences by forcing the dialectic, by the way!). I merely posted a response questioning why you'd said it.
Trent's skin colour has nothing to do with anything and I'm still confused why you think this phrase is an accurate way to describe the way that Nine Inch Nails works or the way that... anything works. Would you describe Jane Austen's books as 'white girl writing'? I'm so lost as to why it's necessary to specifically point out the race of the artist. Yes, we know he's white. So what? Beyond being aware of that, the information is meaningless with regards to an understanding of the music. Is there any point in the history of NIN where the music needs to be contextualised by the colour of the artist's skin? No, because it doesn't matter. As I said, it's universal. This is why I stated that the phrase adds nothing to the conversation.
When I first started listening to the band, I didn't know what Trent looked like or what race he was, only that he was based in America somewhere. Heck, I didn't even know what his speaking voice sounded like, but did that matter? No, because the music was the thing I was interested in. Everything else was irrelevant.
I dislike Sunspots because the lyrics are pretty bad (although the delivery is fine) and because that vaccuuming section just has...nothing going on.
Ok, I'll bite
the worst songs are:
Not So Pretty Now
I Would for You
Disappointed
That Jane Austen thing has actually been a joke in the black comedy circuit for a while.
But I digress, I posted the comment not expecting the response. While I don't personally see anything wrong with it, I see your point. The Bill & Ted thing irked me because my father is gay. C'est la vie.
I hope I'm not adding more wood to the fire with this, but here's my two cents: "white guy rhyming" has more to do with comedic stereotypes than a racial thing; think Vanilla Ice level cheese. It's no different than "white guy dancing". It's more about illustrative language that paints a picture based on things you've probably seen on film or television (or, obviously, in real life). I get that you're trying to promote progression and positive language, but I think you're reaching a bit with comparing it to using "gay" and "fag" negatively. That's an entirely different thing, and I absolutely agree with that needing to stop. Besides, many white rappers have proven they're not a part of that stereotype (see: Eminem).
Edit: Eminem is probably an ironic example given his use of "gay" and "fag/faggot" in some of his songs. Sorry.
Last edited by wight rabbit; 02-18-2020 at 02:12 PM.
I like Sunspots, but being offended and calling "white guy rhyming" "toxic" is offensive in itself, because it somehow equates racism against white people as somehow just as bad or damaging as that to people of color. Context is everything.
White people haven't suffered centuries of laws and policies and social structures designed to destroy and drive out their communities. White kids aren't sitting in cages at the border. White kids aren't shot for wearing a hoodie or just standing around in the wrong place.
If you feel persecuted as a white person, you ought to ask yourself who is convincing yo oof this truth.
I think Sunspots is just fine, I think "white guy rhyming" is way too dismissive of a really solid track - but toxic? Offensive? No way, not in this era. No.
Also, this isn't the first time you have had issues regarding race on ETS.
Fuck y’all, year zero is a fuckin bop.
You're right. However, prejudice is prejudice. Intolerance against others because of their differences is wrong.
Also, note that the other time this happened, you were the one who brought up racism and threw me the 'racist' hot potato when I said I didn't like Old Town Road.
Cleanup on isle controversial!!!
When I go onto a Nine Inch Nails forum full of 30+ year olds I really wonder what they all think about race and thankfully this thread satisfies
Exceptional grasp and understanding displayed! FIVE dictionary definitions linked with no analysis whatsoever!! If you didn't agree with me reading the first one, read the second one, maybe the third one, and the fourth one, by the fifth one you will REALLY REALLY agree!!!
Before I was a fan, I used to call Nine Inch Nails "angry white boy music". I'll still jokingly refer to it as such if people ask me what kind of music I'm into. I even made a remix of Closer called the "Angry White Boy Remix". Not sure what the big deal is or who exactly is getting harmed by saying it. If a white person hears that and gets offended, they need to get over themselves.
Last edited by BRoswell; 02-19-2020 at 11:46 PM.
Please note that I specifically used 'prejudice' here rather than 'racism' in relation to intolerance to white people.
This thread has spiralled out of control. All I did was question why Trent's race is relevant to the art he makes. That's all.
It's frustrating that I continuously have to defend the points that skin colour doesn't (always) matter in relation to art, and that intolerance against others is wrong.
Maybe my example of another kind of intolerance was crap. Maybe I'm entirely in the wrong here. I apologise if I've offended anyone here.
Last edited by katara; 02-20-2020 at 04:21 AM.
"I'm so lost as to why it's necessary to specifically point out the race of the artist. Yes, we know he's white. So what? Beyond being aware of that, the information is meaningless with regards to an understanding of the music. Is there any point in the history of NIN where the music needs to be contextualised by the colour of the artist's skin? No, because it doesn't matter. As I said, it's universal. This is why I stated that the phrase adds nothing to the conversation."
"Colorblind" attitudes actually perpetuate racism. It is a form of gaslighting, and it is how I used to think not that many years ago. We all see race, it is what we do with our differences. If white people can't see whiteness, and if they are going to be defensive whenever anyone even utters the word "white", then we aren't going to make any progress as a society. You have to see your own race, and see the power dynamics more broadly in society, if anything approaching equality is ever going to be achieved.
Here are some articles that speak to this issue of "what does race matter?". It's been studied extensively.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...is-form-racism
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-bad-everyone/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...uctive/405037/
https://www.amazon.com/Racism-withou.../dp/1442202181
And to the rest of you who are bothered by this sidetrack interrupting your enjoyment of ETS, good. You need to be bothered sometimes. People of color are bothered by racism everyday in every context from school to work to going to the store. Be bothered. Here's a fly in your soup. Enjoy.
I realize your point was ultimately defending my use of the word "white", but holy heck. Not everything is "racially driven" these days. No one is gaslighting here; me telling you I'm not gaslighting is not my subtle form of gaslighting, either.
People are upset because a random comment got turned into a college ethics class and a game of "Find The Racist".
For talk about racism, there's a lot of white-guy debating here. Oh wait...
Back to my YZ opinion...I respect it a lot more than I enjoy the execution. I thought the album was going to be experimental in its songs' structures, but it really wasn't (which is fine, TR and AR write pop songs, generally). Guess I had my expectations unmet, whereas with other records and especially the Trilogy, my expectations were met, exceeded, or flipped.
Can confirm that most of the time I'm usually angry as well as white.
That's exactly how I took it. Jokes in general sometimes confuse the hell out me in legit conversations though, (In terms/questions like, "Was that right or wrong? Was that even funny?") but in comedy just about anything goes.
I definitely always make use of the dictionary as much as possible when it comes to topics like these or words in general. I also suppose it just sometimes depends on who you're speaking to, especially in this case. (As I've often failed to consider the source myself along with context/content and how and what is being said.)
I'm actually a bit surprised that it didn't happen in the Speak your mind and In the Headlines sections. (Not that it hasn't happened in the Nine Inch Nails section before, but it proves yet again that such a thing is bound to happen here. It's just guaranteed.)
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 02-24-2020 at 10:05 AM.
I hate Closer.