Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[Halo Infinity]

I felt that, since all I can think about is Year Zero whenever I see the ARG acronym. This has also left me missing some of the 2000s.

Anyway, I don't know if this would count as a controversial opinion, but I still felt the same way about it ever since Year Zero came out. It always felt and looked right/better for new listeners to start with everything before Year Zero. I'm well aware that it shouldn't be set in stone, since tastes are subjective, but it still just seemed like I was "supposed" to have new listeners check out Pretty Hate Machine to With Teeth first, and then move onward to Year Zero and beyond. I know it's not necessarily wrong otherwise, but it just still felt right.

In most cases, I would never have anybody start with any Nine Inch Nails album after With Teeth. I'm still standing by Pretty Hate Machine to With Teeth as the introduction albums to all things Nine Inch Nails.

On the other hand, I've also realized that some people might be much better off starting with The Slip, Hesitation Marks or even Ghosts I-IV as opposed to being thrown right into Broken and The Downward Spiral, or how The Fragile would be far too much of a bloated entry-point for some of those new to NIN.

[PhoenixML]

As much as I love How To Destroy Angels, I have never cared for Keep It Together or their instrumentals. Also Ice Age is too long.

[eversonpoe]

As much as I love How To Destroy Angels, I have never cared for Keep It Together or their instrumentals. Also Ice Age is too long.

me thinks you are in the wrong thread, friend. may i direct your attention here

also:

[katara]

The artwork for Bleedthrough is so much more interesting to me than what we got for With Teeth. The latter's art is fine. I like it. Conceptually, however, Bleedthrough just fits better in a visual context between the stark grey of the previous record (AATCHB) and the glitchiness of the next (Year Zero). The image is also more compelling; I can't help but study it each time I come across it. Feels like something organic is being born, tearing through a sterile two-dimensional space into the real world.

I often wonder how different the album was prior to being re-branded, if at all. The last four songs on With Teeth feel like they come from a completely different place than the catchier material earlier on like EDIETS and Only. The six year gap after The Fragile was tough. When nin.com started to subtly shift slightly every day or so, that was an exciting time. There was this air of mystery, with that Lathe of Heaven quote and Trent playing with ideas about different layers of reality seeping into one another. At some point, that changed and it became "twelve good punches in the face". Then there are all those missing songs (four that we know of, not including the b-sides). I can't help but be curious. I also can't help but feel that Trent played it safe, throwing most of the concept out the window and instead focussing on more simple rock songs while worrying about NIN's relevancy. Don't get me wrong, again, I like what we got. I just wonder what could have been.

[allegate]

you mean like the concept he had running with the first two eps and then abandoned? I wanted to know what came out the other side of the decay on Add Violence.

[katara]

you mean like the concept he had running with the first two eps and then abandoned? I wanted to know what came out the other side of the decay on Add Violence.

Yeah, kinda. The Trilogy is a bit different, though. NTAE was a huge surprise. Following that, the sound and ideas on Add Violence were also something that no one expected. However, the narrative was by that point established, and we all knew where it was going. It was already stale before it was even out, so it makes sense that Bad Witch was either written from another completely different perspective, or that (anticlimactically), the whole Year Zero concept was just a little world in a little box in some lab somewhere and doesn't matter to anyone, and the real world isn't governed by any god or order, it's just that you get this much time, you die, and that's it. Game over.

The format in which the music came out (through EPs) destroyed their original idea. Through releasing small chunks of music at a time, all the cards were revealed by the second act. The story was out there, everyone knew what was going to happen next, and we had to wait for a conclusion we already knew. Essentially, TRAR needed another surprise just like the first two EPs, but couldn't think of one, spun wheels, and gave us this instead. If it was one full-length LP, I don't think that original concept would have changed. It's a shame, but I love what we got, so I'm happy.

I actually wonder if we would have gotten that original concept had Rob still been with NIN at the time. From what I understand, he and Trent bounced ideas off each other constantly before and during Year Zero.

[zecho]

The artwork for Bleedthrough is so much more interesting to me than what we got for With Teeth. The latter's art is fine. I like it. Conceptually, however, Bleedthrough just fits better in a visual context between the stark grey of the previous record (AATCHB) and the glitchiness of the next (Year Zero). The image is also more compelling; I can't help but study it each time I come across it. Feels like something organic is being born, tearing through a sterile two-dimensional space into the real world.

I often wonder how different the album was prior to being re-branded, if at all. The last four songs on With Teeth feel like they come from a completely different place than the catchier material earlier on like EDIETS and Only. The six year gap after The Fragile was tough. When nin.com started to subtly shift slightly every day or so, that was an exciting time. There was this air of mystery, with that Lathe of Heaven quote and Trent playing with ideas about different layers of reality seeping into one another. At some point, that changed and it became "twelve good punches in the face". Then there are all those missing songs (four that we know of, not including the b-sides). I can't help but be curious. I also can't help but feel that Trent played it safe, throwing most of the concept out the window and instead focussing on more simple rock songs while worrying about NIN's relevancy. Don't get me wrong, again, I like what we got. I just wonder what could have been.

I have a theory that the Bleedthrough concept wasn't abandoned until after recording was almost complete. The music and lyrics of With Teeth still have the elements of the Bleedthrough concept, I just think it wasn't as prominent as TR was expecting it to be, so publicly pulled back on the concept. But I don't think the music is actually any different than it would have been had the album title not been changed. I also don't think that the concept for the Trilogy had been established before Add Violence came out. There's no reference to the scifi elements until then, so I think the concept wasn't necessarily "abandoned" as much as it was constantly shifting. In the end, the "about me, about you, about us" narrative seems pretty complete to me, even if it wasn't what I was expecting after AV.

[katara]

With the announcements of even more vinyl-exclusive material in With Teeth DE and Bird Box, I find myself once again disappointed. Once again there are no options, not even for digital. Vinyl is expensive, it's cumbersome, it's inconvenient. The elitism from both NIN and this forum (seriously, "The Poopy Diaper Vinyl Thread"? Come on...) is such a turn-off.

I'm considering throwing in the towel with this band. Buy our overpriced frisbee or fuck off? Okay, I'll fuck off, then.

But this is a hard decision to make. I'm a huge, huge fan of this music. It's part of my formative years, all the way up until now. It's shaped me as a person, my way of thinking, everything. I can't simply just walk away.

Please understand that I'd like to be here with you all, to be excited for these new releases, but I'm just not. Each one is a new disappointment every single time now.

I don't know what to do.

[Tom]

Nah, don't throw in the towel - why deny yourself the pleasure you'd get from the music? Torrent the files.

[BRoswell]

Nah, don't throw in the towel - why deny yourself the pleasure you'd get from the music? Torrent the files.

Yep. To be honest, I think this is why they include digital files for the vinyl releases. They know people are going to pirate them anyway for those who don't want/can't afford the vinyl versions.

[Archive_Reports]

Non-Entity is a top five NIN track.

[Papagolash]

Yep. To be honest, I think this is why they include digital files for the vinyl releases. They know people are going to pirate them anyway for those who don't want/can't afford the vinyl versions.

Just give a fucking option to just buy only the digital media. Why is that so fucking hard to do?

[BRoswell]

Just give a fucking option to just buy only the digital media. Why is that so fucking hard to do?

I agree, but if they're not going to do that, what other option is there? I could pout about it on Ye Olde Board, or I could get it through other means.

[fishtifer]

I agree, but if they're not going to do that, what other option is there? I could pout about it on Ye Olde Board, or I could get it through other means.

With Teeth DE digital is on thepiratebay for all of us who don't buy vinyl...

[Max]

Why is this such a terrible situation? There IS an option for Digital. If you order the vinyl you get digital with it. Just consider it the cost of the digital and the artwork. You already have access to With Teeth and all the Song Tracks on streaming. I really don't understand what in the world is so wrong with the situation. NIN isn't trying to make you miserable, they are just trying to pay the bills because streaming pays pennies and the bottom has dropped out from the music industry and artists are having a hard time making it. If you can't buy everything you want in the exact format you prefer that isn't their fault. The "I only want a downloadable digital file but I don't like streaming and I am unwilling to pay for vinyl" camp is a pretty small one, just like the "I only will do CD's". They aren't going to please everyone ever.

NIN is a great band, you aren't missing out on anything important here. I wish I could afford every T-Shirt. Wish I had Cargo in the Blood. Gotta pay the bills. It will be okay. Deep breath. Enjoy the music you have. Enjoy the band.

With the announcements of even more vinyl-exclusive material in With Teeth DE and Bird Box, I find myself once again disappointed. Once again there are no options, not even for digital. Vinyl is expensive, it's cumbersome, it's inconvenient. The elitism from both NIN and this forum (seriously, "The Poopy Diaper Vinyl Thread"? Come on...) is such a turn-off.

I'm considering throwing in the towel with this band. Buy our overpriced frisbee or fuck off? Okay, I'll fuck off, then.

But this is a hard decision to make. I'm a huge, huge fan of this music. It's part of my formative years, all the way up until now. It's shaped me as a person, my way of thinking, everything. I can't simply just walk away.

Please understand that I'd like to be here with you all, to be excited for these new releases, but I'm just not. Each one is a new disappointment every single time now.

I don't know what to do.

[Max]

With Teeth DE digital is on thepiratebay for all of us who don't buy vinyl...

Or you could pay the artists what they deserve so that they keep making music we love.

[tony.parente]

Or you could pay the artists what they deserve so that they keep making music we love.

Well there's no digital only or CD version of the remaster. If i didn't own a record player i'd probably hit up TPB for the files too.

[fishtifer]

Or you could pay the artists what they deserve so that they keep making music we love.

$65 Canadian to buy the With Teeth vinyl and ship it to Canada when I've already purchased two WT cds and the dualdisc. I would have gladly paid for a digital version but there was no option for that.

I bought The Fragile on vinyl when it first came out in '99 for the extra tracks, had a friend record them onto a mix tape for me. Then bought the We're In This Together singles for the same tracks. I stored that Fragile vinyl for 15-16 years after that, played it once on another friends record player expecting it to sound the best only to be dissapointed by all the crackles and pops. So I sold it on Ebay right before it was re-released. After that I was done with vinyl.

I don't listen to music at home ever, only in my car and at work. Being a huge NIN fan since 1995 I want to own the best version of each album, so yeah - vinyl only releases are pretty irratating.

[katara]

Why is this such a terrible situation?

Welcome to Controversial NIN Opinions.

[Archive_Reports]

Producing CDs for a re-release (or at all unless you're an unsigned band trying to push your name and have show attendees leave with product) doesn't make much sense. It is odd that the WT tracks aren't made available digitally, either through purchase or the regular streaming avenues. At the end of the day, NIN - or any artist - doesn't owe their fans anything. Purchase or don't. Pirate the tracks or don't. Knowing what we do about how Trent operates, if he was that concerned about people nabbing the digital DE through nefarious means, it would be released digitally.

[katara]

At the end of the day, NIN - or any artist - doesn't owe their fans anything.

Actually, they do. Artists owe everything to their fanbase, because without one, they have nothing.

Once an artist hits a certain level of fame, perhaps it doesn't matter anymore. To a small artist, however, even one new fan means the world.

If an artist starts doing something against the grain of whatever their audience liked about them initially, those fans will initially be upset, and if this behaviour is continued, those fans will leave.

[nmitchell86]

Actually, they do. Artists owe everything to their fanbase, because without one, they have nothing.

Once an artist hits a certain level of fame, perhaps it doesn't matter anymore. To a small artist, however, even one new fan means the world.

If an artist starts doing something against the grain of whatever their audience liked about them initially, those fans will initially be upset, and if this behaviour is continued, those fans will leave.

I get what you're saying but and artist does need to be able to grow and change and develop even at the cost of the OG fans. Just my opinion.

[katara]

I get what you're saying but and artist does need to be able to grow and change and develop even at the cost of the OG fans. Just my opinion.

Limiting formats is the antithesis of growth.

[StockAvuryah]

With the announcements of even more vinyl-exclusive material in With Teeth DE and Bird Box, I find myself once again disappointed. Once again there are no options, not even for digital. Vinyl is expensive, it's cumbersome, it's inconvenient. The elitism from both NIN and this forum (seriously, "The Poopy Diaper Vinyl Thread"? Come on...) is such a turn-off.

I'm considering throwing in the towel with this band. Buy our overpriced frisbee or fuck off? Okay, I'll fuck off, then.

But this is a hard decision to make. I'm a huge, huge fan of this music. It's part of my formative years, all the way up until now. It's shaped me as a person, my way of thinking, everything. I can't simply just walk away.

Please understand that I'd like to be here with you all, to be excited for these new releases, but I'm just not. Each one is a new disappointment every single time now.

I don't know what to do.

Downloading it for free was always considered part of the possibilities. Now that you can just get whatever album for free in full quality, they just focus on that ultimate way of enjoying the music like they want, and then everyone else just wanting the sound just does whatever. I guess.

[Senateguard33]

Limiting formats is the antithesis of growth.

There's always a cut off point to formats due to supply and demand.

Here in the states, cassettes and VHS tapes were all but gone in stores by 2002. Vinyl took a dunk in the 90s (you could still import them, as the UK's drop wasn't as significant)

They aren't going to produce a format that won't sell and CDs are a redundant format.

However-I do agree that the files themselves should be available for purchase, but as far as physical products are concerned, I think vinyl gives the best possible physical package.

[ryanmcfly]

I'm considering throwing in the towel with this band. Buy our overpriced frisbee or fuck off? Okay, I'll fuck off, then.

okay, bye then. The reason there is a "poopy diaper vinyl" thread is because of the constant bitching. So if you want to bitch, go there.

back on topic, I think Hesitation Marks is better than The Downward Spiral. HM is such an important part of my early 20s. TDS was the album that took the longest for me to get into. I remember thinking it was just straight up noise from when I discovered NIN in middle school, through halfway through high school. That changed when I saw NIN play a good portion of TDS at the NINJA austin show. TDS still is an excellent record, but it's probably in the middle of the pack in regards to NIN releases for me.

[Max]

okay, bye then. The reason there is a "poopy diaper vinyl" thread is because of the constant bitching. So if you want to bitch, go there.

back on topic, I think Hesitation Marks is better than The Downward Spiral. HM is such an important part of my early 20s. TDS was the album that took the longest for me to get into. I remember thinking it was just straight up noise from when I discovered NIN in middle school, through halfway through high school. That changed when I saw NIN play a good portion of TDS at the NINJA austin show. TDS still is an excellent record, but it's probably in the middle of the pack in regards to NIN releases for me.

While I might disagree, I actually LOVE this opinion. I think HM is way underrated by NIN fans, and it is refreshing to see someone under 40 so into them. Good for you!

[Senateguard33]

Gone Girl is the best soundtrack, IMO (even better than Social Network)

I feel that the TR/AS soundtracks started strong, and got a bit samey/repetitive in the middle (Patriot's Day, Bird Box, Vietnam and Waves have many similar vibes, with more of focus on drones, minimalism and atmosphere instead of melody) While I enjoy these immensely, I feel they get muddled together in my brain, and I have a hard time latching on to anything specific.

They are getting strong again with Watchmen, and I have to say that the Jazz and Big Bands sounds are better than the usual trademark sounds. I can't wait for Volume 3. The Life on Mars instrumental and The Way Is Used to Be are breathtaking.

[tap3worm]

It all goes to shit when people say "I think this is better" rather than "I prefer this"

[memeories]

I dislike almost everything by U2 but Johnny Cash's cover of One by U2 is 10x better than his cover of Hurt by NIN.