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Thread: Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

  1. #4021
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    Because this the controversial opinions thread and we're talking about Sanctified, let me be the dissenting voice and say that the original is so much better in every conceivable way. The cool thing about the 2013 remix is the fact that TR pulled the song out of mothballs after decades of not playing it... but unfortunately, it's not the song I know and love. It's not bad; I still like the 2013 mix, it's just not Sanctified to me anymore.

  2. #4022
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    Because this the controversial opinions thread and we're talking about Sanctified, let me be the dissenting voice and say that the original is so much better in every conceivable way. The cool thing about the 2013 remix is the fact that TR pulled the song out of mothballs after decades of not playing it... but unfortunately, it's not the song I know and love. It's not bad; I still like the 2013 mix, it's just not Sanctified to me anymore.
    Out of interest, have you heard the version from the Bowie tour? It has a totally different and great intro. I love them all but I’ve never felt this massive loyalty to the original version so I’m happy for it to be mixed up a bit


  3. #4023
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    I love that version. It's basically the original with a cool intro. That particular performance is amazing; I've had the entire concert burned to a CD for about 20 years.
    It still KILLS me that my sister, my best friend from school and I, all of who were into NIN, went to New York in October 1995 because we wanted to go there on Halloween without having the slightest clue that NIN were touring with Bowie, not to mention we didn’t even see the Downward Spiral tour in the UK because it was at tiny venues. I blame the lack of internet, we just had no clue. I even looked up my diaries from those years to see what fascinating thing I was doing on the dates from ninlive - absolutely nothing of interest at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    Out of interest, have you heard the version from the Bowie tour? It has a totally different and great intro. I love them all but I’ve never felt this massive loyalty to the original version so I’m happy for it to be mixed up a bit
    I love that version. It's basically the original with a cool intro. That particular performance is amazing; I've had the entire concert burned to a CD for about 20 years.
    The Becoming and the Eraser remix were also mindblowing on that tour. And on top of that, they played Piggy (nothing can stop me now) and Closer To God (not on that date, though). Damn, I wish I had been there.

    For what it's worth, I'm a big fan of remixes if they're done right. The Downward Spiral era did it right.

  5. #4025
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachpassingphase View Post
    Those two really added something special to the songs they sang on. I didn't even LIKE "Sanctified" until that tour. Between those two and Pino I suddenly loved a song I skipped for two decades.
    You...
    You didn't like Sanctified?

    I'm likelier to skip head like a hole and down in it than sanctified.

  6. #4026
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    You...
    You didn't like Sanctified?

    I'm likelier to skip head like a hole and down in it than sanctified.
    My husband loves Sanctified and thinks i'm nuts for that one too. PHM is my least-favorite NIN album overall, which I know is a heretical statement to make on the NINternet. My favorite songs from that album (Terrible Lie, Something I Can Never Have etc) I LOVE the live versions of, and don't really listen to the original recordings. Head Like a Hole is maybe the only song I like in its original recorded form.

    I've never really understood why, and couldn't put my finger on what it is. It's not like it's a bad album, just my least favorite.

    If I had to guess, it's because I was a teenager when The Fragile came out, so I tend to listen to The Fragile and all the work after that far more often than I do everything that came before it. I think a lot of people tend to connect the most with music that marked their Middle School/High School/College years, and for me that was The Fragile, WT and YZ.

  7. #4027
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    I didn't want to assume, about the age, @eachpassingphase , but I figured as much. For me it was Broken and Fixed in middle school, and backtracking to PHM, and then waiting for TDS to come out, and it came out when I was a freshman in HS, you know?

    So I can understand.

  8. #4028
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    Ugh, sadly I’m too old to have ever listened to NIN at high school, I got into them right from the first album in 1991/92 and I was already 19.

  9. #4029
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachpassingphase View Post
    My husband loves Sanctified and thinks i'm nuts for that one too. PHM is my least-favorite NIN album overall, which I know is a heretical statement to make on the NINternet. My favorite songs from that album (Terrible Lie, Something I Can Never Have etc) I LOVE the live versions of, and don't really listen to the original recordings. Head Like a Hole is maybe the only song I like in its original recorded form.

    I've never really understood why, and couldn't put my finger on what it is. It's not like it's a bad album, just my least favorite.

    If I had to guess, it's because I was a teenager when The Fragile came out, so I tend to listen to The Fragile and all the work after that far more often than I do everything that came before it. I think a lot of people tend to connect the most with music that marked their Middle School/High School/College years, and for me that was The Fragile, WT and YZ.
    I was also a teenager when The Fragile came out and it actually held my attention and interest much more than Pretty Hate Machine, Broken and The Downward Spiral. I have also thought about that as well, with Nine Inch Nails and music in general. People in general tend to be fans of music that came out before they were born, during their childhood or adolescence, or their early 20s and not a day over 25 at the latest.

    And while this is common sense in some ways, I think that's why it was nearly impossible for me to find Nine Inch Nails fans born any time beyond 1995 or 1999. From the looks of it, the youngest Nine Inch Nails fans as of the 2010s are usually still older than The Downward Spiral. And not that they don't exist, as I've seen a few fans here admit that they were younger than The Fragile, but it's still just much more rare, since the majority of fans on ETS seem to have been born in the 1970s and 1980s. Even then, it also seems like most of the fans born in the 1980s were also born before 1985, and it's even much more likely to find fans born before 1970 than after 1990-1993 as well.

    As for Pretty Hate Machine, it's still one of my favorite albums of all time, but I could still very much understand and accept why it would be far from a fan favorite for some. The lion's share of fan love still goes to TDS and TF anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    I didn't want to assume, about the age, @eachpassingphase , but I figured as much. For me it was Broken and Fixed in middle school, and backtracking to PHM, and then waiting for TDS to come out, and it came out when I was a freshman in HS, you know?

    So I can understand.
    There's just a thought that I could've been a fan if I had a chance to listen to The Downward Spiral when it came out from any friends if such a thing every happened around ages 9 to 11 at the very least. I'm sure I would've loved it back then in elementary school, but no such chance ever occurred to me. Most people I knew used cassettes more than CDs so I sometimes like to imagined what it would've been like to have checked out TDS on cassette back then. (And then Broken and PHM.)

    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    Ugh, sadly I’m too old to have ever listened to NIN at high school, I got into them right from the first album in 1991/92 and I was already 19.
    That was almost the case with me as I was also very late to the game. I even had a chance the check out The Fragile when it first came out, or at least any time during 2000. I wish I had the chance and was encouraged by the very same friend that got me into NIN in 2002 as I just turned 17. He admitted he just wasn't to sure if I would be into it, but I'm so thankful he gave me a chance to know about NIN after he knew that I ended up like Marilyn Manson in 2002.

    But the thought of it yet again, just like with my imaginary younger self when TDS came out at the time ironically fills me with regret and imaginary joy/delight at the same time. Back in 2000, I had many fond memories listening to Korn, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock and Eminem a lot. The Fragile would've been easily the perfect album to have me put through into that year, just knowing how much I'd have a blast checking out the discography in reverse with PHM, Broken and TDS. It would've been absolutely and unequivocally more than ideal for my 14 year old self.
    Last edited by Halo Infinity; 09-15-2019 at 01:40 PM.

  10. #4030
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    There are younger fans on the NIN subreddit. I think single-topic message boards like ETS tend to skew older, while places like Reddit have a more diverse age range. But yeah, the fanbase seems to predominately be folks born in the late 70's/early 80's (people who would have been teens/young adults during TDS).

    I definitely saw a lot of older teenagers at the Memphis show for most recent tour. I was REALLY excited for that, because when I saw them in KC for the With Teeth tour, I was one of the youngest people there and I was 18 at the time. I remember waiting in the early-entrance waiting area for Spiral members and feeling like a dopey little kid. There weren't as many girls/women then as there seems to be now either.

    I'd be interested to see if the audience continues to morph with Trent's recent influx of pop cultural influences (Black Mirror,

  11. #4031
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachpassingphase View Post

    I'd be interested to see if the audience continues to morph with Trent's recent influx of pop cultural influences (Black Mirror,
    I THINK it will, in terms of age, at least, what with NIN becoming more visible.

    I also think it's already happening to some extent.

    Like, I'm pretty sure there are middle schoolers who are the weird kids listening to Smashing Pumpkins and Nirvana and NIN, thinking they were born in the wrong generation, in the same way that, in the early nineties, I was INSANELY obsessed with Led Zeppelin and Rush, and listening to old Heart and The Police and whatnot.

  12. #4032
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachpassingphase View Post
    There are younger fans on the NIN subreddit. I think single-topic message boards like ETS tend to skew older, while places like Reddit have a more diverse age range. But yeah, the fanbase seems to predominately be folks born in the late 70's/early 80's (people who would have been teens/young adults during TDS).

    I definitely saw a lot of older teenagers at the Memphis show for most recent tour. I was REALLY excited for that, because when I saw them in KC for the With Teeth tour, I was one of the youngest people there and I was 18 at the time. I remember waiting in the early-entrance waiting area for Spiral members and feeling like a dopey little kid. There weren't as many girls/women then as there seems to be now either.

    I'd be interested to see if the audience continues to morph with Trent's recent influx of pop cultural influences (Black Mirror,
    r/nin seems to be quite varied yeah, too bad the mods there don't organize anything within the community, there's a lot that could be done with all those types of people in one place. A weekly sticky goes a long way to make people.. talk.

  13. #4033
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    Quote Originally Posted by StockAvuryah View Post
    r/nin seems to be quite varied yeah, too bad the mods there don't organize anything within the community, there's a lot that could be done with all those types of people in one place. A weekly sticky goes a long way to make people.. talk.
    It was unofficially T-Shirt Time for a while there.

    *it’s t-shirt time*

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  15. #4035
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricil View Post
    It was unofficially T-Shirt Time for a while there.
    What the fuck is the world coming to?

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    just came from the future and just wanted to tell you that tomorrow's post at nin.com about the fragile turning 20 years was/is a little plain

  17. #4037
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    Because this the controversial opinions thread and we're talking about Sanctified, let me be the dissenting voice and say that the original is so much better in every conceivable way. The cool thing about the 2013 remix is the fact that TR pulled the song out of mothballs after decades of not playing it... but unfortunately, it's not the song I know and love. It's not bad; I still like the 2013 mix, it's just not Sanctified to me anymore.
    Come on, tell me you at least love that bass.

  18. #4038
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    Well, this is the controversial NIN opinions, so here goes... 20 years ago when The Fragile was released, I remember a very strange mixed feeling of "Yeah... this sounds awesome (I was an aspiring sound engineer at the time) but it kinda misses the point..." I found at the time - and my opinion hasn't really changed - that the songs had really good production but didn't talk to me on any level like the three previous records did. TDS, PHM and Broken had a huge influence on my life (TDS is the reason I became a sound engineer), those records helped me through some nasty personal stuff. But somehow, I always felt disconnected when listening o The Fragile. I understand some of the themes, but a lot of this record seems too "obvious" lyrically and the layering of sounds lacked the poetry and forceful impact of TDS. I really didn't want TR to repeat the same record, don't get me wrong, and I didn't have special expectations : I was just really happy to listen to new NIN material. But somehow I could never click with The Fragile as a work of art - although I still recognize all of its musical and technical merits.
    Then a few years ago, I discovered the instrumental versions (Deviations) and suddenly I felt deeply impacted by the music and sound layers, the profound madness behind the "production" (a word still strangely used to talk about the construction of the emotional impact of a song). Of course, the passing of time and the experience of growing up plays a role in the change of perception, but I also realized that I thought the record was better to me without lyrics, as if TR's discourse hit me way more musically than lyrically.

  19. #4039
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    Quote Originally Posted by benoïde View Post
    Well, this is the controversial NIN opinions, so here goes... 20 years ago when The Fragile was released, I remember a very strange mixed feeling of "Yeah... this sounds awesome (I was an aspiring sound engineer at the time) but it kinda misses the point..." I found at the time - and my opinion hasn't really changed - that the songs had really good production but didn't talk to me on any level like the three previous records did. TDS, PHM and Broken had a huge influence on my life (TDS is the reason I became a sound engineer), those records helped me through some nasty personal stuff. But somehow, I always felt disconnected when listening o The Fragile. I understand some of the themes, but a lot of this record seems too "obvious" lyrically and the layering of sounds lacked the poetry and forceful impact of TDS. I really didn't want TR to repeat the same record, don't get me wrong, and I didn't have special expectations : I was just really happy to listen to new NIN material. But somehow I could never click with The Fragile as a work of art - although I still recognize all of its musical and technical merits.
    Then a few years ago, I discovered the instrumental versions (Deviations) and suddenly I felt deeply impacted by the music and sound layers, the profound madness behind the "production" (a word still strangely used to talk about the construction of the emotional impact of a song). Of course, the passing of time and the experience of growing up plays a role in the change of perception, but I also realized that I thought the record was better to me without lyrics, as if TR's discourse hit me way more musically than lyrically.
    I've always felt that NIN was never that strong lyrically. The overall sound is more important to me, while the words are secondary. Vocals are like another instrument.

    Deviations 1 suffers from a lack of voice. On the original album, the vocals helped to hide the repetitive loop-like nature of how many of the songs are constructed. I find myself getting bored listening to the instrumentals.

  20. #4040
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    I've always felt that NIN was never that strong lyrically. The overall sound is more important to me, while the words are secondary. Vocals are like another instrument.

    Deviations 1 suffers from a lack of voice. On the original album, the vocals helped to hide the repetitive loop-like nature of how many of the songs are constructed. I find myself getting bored listening to the instrumentals.
    I will agree that Trent's lyrics aren't his high point, I think many agree with that even with the lyrics improving, especially on The Trilogy, it isn't the main draft of the band, but Trent's vocals are incredibly important and it is one of many things that seperate NIN from its peers, other Industrial Rock/Metal bands had a very different approach to the way they treat their vocals, being far more muffled, distorted, while Trent's vocals tended to be far clearer, even when distorted and muffled they are still far more in the front or would eventually become clear in the chorus (Cease in point; Burning Bright). His vocals are an important part to NIN's music as it is the human element that makes so many people connect to it

    Also, the way sings those lyrics is what sells those emotions more than the lyrics themselves

  21. #4041
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    TDS does not need Big Man With A Gun on it and would actually work better without it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    I will agree that Trent's lyrics aren't his high point, I think many agree with that even with the lyrics improving, especially on The Trilogy, it isn't the main draft of the band, but Trent's vocals are incredibly important and it is one of many things that seperate NIN from its peers, other Industrial Rock/Metal bands had a very different approach to the way they treat their vocals, being far more muffled, distorted, while Trent's vocals tended to be far clearer, even when distorted and muffled they are still far more in the front or would eventually become clear in the chorus (Cease in point; Burning Bright). His vocals are an important part to NIN's music as it is the human element that makes so many people connect to it

    Also, the way sings those lyrics is what sells those emotions more than the lyrics themselves
    I that NIN is definitely a music-over-lyrics band, but, while the lyrics aren't exactly beautiful poetry and clever wordplay, TR excels at making songs that are almost solely about a theme. He seems to go through pretty great lengths to keep his lyrics separate from a strict narrative. All of his songs words describe a feeling as opposed to a scenario in which that feeling is felt. I'm never going to gush about his lyrics the way I do people like Stephin Merritt or Conor Oberst, but his ability to write around the narrative instead of writing the narrative outright is pretty impressive.

  23. #4043
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    I am going to completely disagree about Trent not being a great lyricist. Some of the best poets use “simple” language to powerful effect. Honestly, it was always his lyrics that I was most drawn in by. He’s always been more confessional, rather than pretentious. It’s not like he isn’t capable of being more obtuse, it’s just not what he’s going for. That’s my take. That said, I’m not going to submit Kinda I Want To for a literary prize, but Hurt? Yeah. It’s poetry.

  24. #4044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    I am going to completely disagree about Trent not being a great lyricist. Some of the best poets use “simple” language to powerful effect. Honestly, it was always his lyrics that I was most drawn in by. He’s always been more confessional, rather than pretentious. It’s not like he isn’t capable of being more obtuse, it’s just not what he’s going for. That’s my take. That said, I’m not going to submit Kinda I Want To for a literary prize, but Hurt? Yeah. It’s poetry.
    I feel like I should rephrase what I've said before about him as a lyricist. I don't think he's a bad lyricist at all. His words have had a profound effect on me over the years. It's more that his lyrics aren't the main focal point of his work. For the most part, they don't stand out from the music. His music is more about the cumulative effect rather than lyrics over sound, which is a good thing. Some might say that actually DOES make him a good lyricist, and maybe they're right. For me, it just means that he's more concerned with the overall feeling of the track than just the words on the page.

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    Love Is Not Enough is an amazing song, gets over-looked a lot and people barely talk about it, shame, has a lot of impact, that guitar's heavy as hell

  26. #4046
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Love Is Not Enough is an amazing song, gets over-looked a lot and people barely talk about it, shame, has a lot of impact, that guitar's heavy as hell
    The live version, especially when it opened the With Teeth tour sets, was a fucking killer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    The live version, especially when it opened the With Teeth tour sets, was a fucking killer.
    This will always stick with me since that 2005 tour was only my 2nd through 5th time seeing NIN, and that 2005 club tour is now the clear return of NIN as an active, bit time project/band. And hearing LINE kicked it all off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    The live version, especially when it opened the With Teeth tour sets, was a fucking killer.
    The rehearsal version off "Beside You In Time" is also worthy of a mention

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Love Is Not Enough is an amazing song, gets over-looked a lot and people barely talk about it, shame, has a lot of impact, that guitar's heavy as hell
    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    The live version, especially when it opened the With Teeth tour sets, was a fucking killer.
    LINE should’ve been the first song on WT, too. Yeah that was a great live opener for that era and glad it got pro shot captured.

    Since this is the controversial thread and I just typed the above, ATLITW is the weakest opener of any NIN album and WT would’ve been better served with LINE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
    LINE should’ve been the first song on WT, too. Yeah that was a great live opener for that era and glad it got pro shot captured.

    Since this is the controversial thread and I just typed the above, ATLITW is the weakest opener of any NIN album and WT would’ve been better served with LINE.
    I do like ATLITW, I feel like it's a nice opener as a distraction, you wouldn't expect.
    But I feel like You Know What You Are might have been just as strong as an opener if not better, I don't know, I think a kick in the face from the get-go without any build-up would be awesome, kinda like how Alice In Chains' Dirt opens up. Just imagine starting With_Teeth and those fast-paced drums being the first thing you'd hear.

    I guess it makes sense for ATLITW to be an opener thematically, to set up the melancholic, lonely feeling of the album.

    The only Nine Inch Nails album which actually does this is Bad Witch, funilly enough, every other album builds-up to that aggressivnes, even Broken does this, interesting. I think it could have worked nicely with With_Teeth too.

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