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Thread: Game of Thrones - Spoilers

  1. #1981
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardo View Post
    I'm watching for the laughs at this point. In one episode, the Iron Fleet easily takes down a dragon. VERY easily. Last night's episode: One dragon destroys the whole fleet (and fires explosives upon the whole city) very easily. It's like every new episode makes the last one completely useless.

    I'm not the kind of person to nitpick on everything. Especially the physics of a fantasy show. But last week they were firing arrows at the dragons almost non-stop. From a boat.

    On land, they seemed to struggle getting the weapons ready and the dragon seemed much more powerful now. He could have destroyed that fleet easily last week.

    Actually, if her other dragon got killed in last night's episode making Daenerys lose her mind, it would have made more sense.

    This is bad writing and it's a shame what happened to this show. It's like they read all good fan-made finales and decided to do the exact opposite just out of spite or ego.

    GoT always shocked me somehow. Now what's is shocking is how bad it has become.
    I actually think is boils down to the fact that in last week's episode, Euron and the Iron Fleet caught her off guard in an ambush. This time around, it was the Iron Fleet that was caught off guard and unprepared. They did make a point to show how slowly those "Scorpion" ballistas turn and rotate when they need to adjust their aim.

  2. #1982
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    I actually think is boils down to the fact that in last week's episode, Euron and the Iron Fleet caught her off guard in an ambush. This time around, it was the Iron Fleet that was caught off guard and unprepared. They did make a point to show how slowly those "Scorpion" ballistas turn and rotate when they need to adjust their aim.
    Yeah, even then... poor writing IMO. Just the fact she was caught off guard is stupid enough. One of the writers actually said Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet. That's just stupid. And they were not off guard, they were all looking at the sky for her. The Dragon was much quicker in this episode than the previous one.

    The creatures/weapons powers are so inconsistent nowadays it makes me cringe. They are just as powerful as the story needs them to be at this point. And that's bad writing.

  3. #1983
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    10/10. loved the episode.

  4. #1984
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    It was her conversation with Jon at the start of the episode that sold it for me. She wants to rule through love, but nobody loves her anymore.

    Jorrah is dead. Missandrei is dead. Jon might love her, but he's not down with the whole incest thing. The people in the north don't trust her, they trust Jon. Cersei has convinced the city that she's an invading usurper so the people of kings landing hate her. She's lost 2 dragons fighting for the people of Westeros and has nothing to show for it.

    So she chose to rule by fear instead. And she's inspiring fear now. She associates herself with freedom and breaking chains, and is too hurt by what's happened to her to realize that stops being true if she rules by fear. The association of herself as a freedom bringer is enabling her to take extreme actions to take power, and is blinding her to how her actions are preventing that from happening.
    Yeah, I see your point, and I could totally see all of this as motivating her to be brutal and vengeful towards Cersei, Varys, and even Jon.

    But I don't know, I still can't see Dany responding to that situation by roasting little kids in the street. It just doesn't work for me, because I can't think of any scene in any previous episode that foreshadows that kind of mindless sadism towards innocent people. You can't just force a character to become the new Ramsey when they never acted like that before.

  5. #1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    But I don't know, I still can't see Dany responding to that situation by roasting little kids in the street. It just doesn't work for me, because I can't think of any scene in any previous episode that foreshadows that kind of mindless sadism towards innocent people. You can't just force a character to become the new Ramsey when they never acted like that before.
    What about the scene where she burned Sam's brother and father to death for not bending the knee? Or the scene where she crucified all of the masters in Meereen (most of them may have had it coming after doing the same to children, but still)? Or the scene where she burns all of the khals alive? You could argue that last one was self defense, but she wasn't exactly distressed by it. As a matter of fact, she seemed to even enjoy it. Either way, there are several times in the past where her first impulse was to be pretty damn cruel and vengeful. It's just that she used to have people like Varys, Jorah, Missandei, Tyrion, and even Jon talk her out of these decisions, but they're all either dead or traitors (in her eyes, at least) now at this point. As she said herself in this episode, she's now letting fear dictate her actions & decisions and she plans to use fear (and force) to take the throne and continue using it to maintain power & control once she obtains it. Ergo, she plans to become a dictator.

  6. #1986
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    What about the scene where she burned Sam's brother and father to death for not bending the knee? Or the scene where she crucified all of the masters in Meereen (most of them may have had it coming after doing the same to children, but still)? Or the scene where she burns all of the khals alive? You could argue that last one was self defense, but she wasn't exactly distressed by it. As a matter of fact, she seemed to even enjoy it. Either way, there are several times in the past where her first impulse was to be pretty damn cruel and vengeful. It's just that she used to have people like Varys, Jorah, Missandei, Tyrion, and even Jon talk her out of these decisions, but they're all either dead or traitors (in her eyes, at least) now at this point. As she said herself in this episode, she's now letting fear dictate her actions & decisions and she plans to use fear (and force) to take the throne and continue using it to maintain power & control once she obtains it. Ergo, she plans to become a dictator.
    Literally this. There have been so many moments of foreshadowing throughout the series that show that she was going to be the Mad Queen. Former NFL receiver Donte Stallworth tweeted this thread with various clips from the series: https://twitter.com/DonteStallworth/...63653812543489

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    Last edited by DVYDRNS; 05-13-2019 at 08:19 PM.

  8. #1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    But I don't know, I still can't see Dany responding to that situation by roasting little kids in the street. It just doesn't work for me, because I can't think of any scene in any previous episode that foreshadows that kind of mindless sadism towards innocent people. You can't just force a character to become the new Ramsey when they never acted like that before.
    I wonder what show you've been watching. There's many moments that show Dany's darker, fucked up side. It was always there. Dany wanted to be worshipped and bowed to. Cersei and the people of Kings Landing did not.

  9. #1989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    @marodi, they had several shots of Jon trying to stop the slaughter, though they registered as kind of pathetic and impossible in the context. He at least had a few highlighted moments of him "trying to do the right thing."
    Yeah, he did; and he did save a woman from being raped. But he had seen the direction Dany's thinking was taking ( the it will be fear quote) and did nothing. Worst , imho, when the Lannister soldiers put their swords down, Jon just stood there and stared at them. After a few seconds, I was shouting at my screen "what are you waiting for, you bloody moron; take their weapons away from them, secure them somewhere so they don't attack you in the back and get that bloody door open to take the Red Keep! WTF is wrong with you! Leave the staring to Bran and move"

    Seriously, what was that about? They surrendered and you just going to stare at them?

    Anyway, Jon is not fit to rule, not because he is a bad guy but because he is too much like his uncle Ned: way too noble and honest. You need to have a bit of ruthlessness in order to properly rule, otherwise, you end up having you head cut up in episode nine.

    Any of you fellow fans noticed how the great Houses of Westeros are on the verge of extinction? Patriarchy is to blame, of course but all that fighting was devastating too.

  10. #1990
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    made a small cut of Jon Snow looking stupid

  11. #1991
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I wonder what show you've been watching. There's many moments that show Dany's darker, fucked up side. It was always there. Dany wanted to be worshipped and bowed to. Cersei and the people of Kings Landing did not.
    This grew tiresome when she would have that obsession with people bending the knee to her. Breaker of chains, mother of dragons, yada yada yada... But her more caring side always seemed to take a backseat when it came to talking about the dam throne. I understand that the foreshadowing has always been there, I just feel the execution as to her going mad was poorly done, hence a lot of jarring takes on her just flipping a switch after she had already won.

    I felt it was a much more effective plot point when the throne did not matter because of the dead, with the stakes feeling incredibly claustrophobic with them marching in and finally arriving. Ugh, I rememeber when the wall came down and it was fucking shocking to me... I haven't really felt that shocking/oh shit factor all season. I would have liked to see what they would have done with Dany if the throne was no longer a huge factor anymore, due to the dead.
    Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 05-13-2019 at 10:49 PM.

  12. #1992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    This grew tiresome when she would have that obsession with people bending the knee to her. Breaker of chains, mother of dragons, yada yada yada... But her more caring side always seemed to take a backseat when it came to talking about the dam throne. I understand that the foreshadowing has always been there, I just feel the execution as to her going mad was poorly done, hence a lot of jarring takes on her just flipping a switch after she had already won.

    I felt it was a much more effective plot point when the throne did not matter because of the dead, with the stakes feeling incredibly claustrophobic with them marching in and finally arriving. Ugh, I rememeber when the wall came down and it was fucking shocking to me... I haven't really felt that shocking/oh shit factor all season. I would have liked to see what they would have done with Dany if the throne was no longer a huge factor anymore, due to the dead.
    Tyrion literally spent the last two episodes trying to get her not to just simply murder everyone in Kings Landing. She has murdered plenty of people before this... quite brutally. Hell, she is even turning on Jon because he doesn't want to fuck his family member. Caring side? She only cared when those people worship her. As soon as you betray her or not bend a knee, she's ready to burn you alive. She constantly had to be counseled to NOT kill people.

  13. #1993
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    Tyrion literally spent the last two episodes trying to get her not to just simply murder everyone in Kings Landing. She has murdered plenty of people before this... quite brutally. Hell, she is even turning on Jon because he doesn't want to fuck his family member. Caring side? She only cared when those people worship her. As soon as you betray her or not bend a knee, she's ready to burn you alive. She constantly had to be counseled to NOT kill people.
    Huh? If you go back to multiple seasons... You're telling me that the random people that were in poverty that she saved ; she didn't show any sense of heartfelt caring towards them... Ever? You may need to re-watch a few episodes. My comment wasn't directed towards her behavior for this season. She hasn't cared about shit but the throne for awhile now... Oh, and her nephew.

  14. #1994
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    I can't help but laugh at anyone who ever thought Dany was a good person or a role model. Did y'all think Trump was good too because he'd occasionally go "I want coal miners to have jobs again!" while simultaneously fucking things up for literally everyone else in the country (and beyond)?

    The "good" things she did, she did for herself. She did them so that she could destroy anyone and anything that stood between her an the Iron Throne. It has ALWAYS been that way. How on earth did anyone ever think "oh, she helped some people, she's a hero"? It boggles my mind. She never struck me as anything more than annoyingly self-centered (seriously, announcing that paragraph-long title every time you talk about her....), and one-dimensional (I'm great, because dragons). She would be nothing without those things, which the show has very clearly demonstrated that she's aware of based on her reactions each time one of them gets offed. (And for what it's worth, every single time Jon insists that she's his queen even in the face of horrific actions, I just want to smack him in the face and yell "what the hell is wrong you with, boy?!"

    This is no sudden character change. This is just her true colors finally being shown clearly enough for people who somehow couldn't see them before.

  15. #1995
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    What about the scene where she burned Sam's brother and father to death for not bending the knee? Or the scene where she crucified all of the masters in Meereen (most of them may have had it coming after doing the same to children, but still)? Or the scene where she burns all of the khals alive? You could argue that last one was self defense, but she wasn't exactly distressed by it. As a matter of fact, she seemed to even enjoy it. Either way, there are several times in the past where her first impulse was to be pretty damn cruel and vengeful. It's just that she used to have people like Varys, Jorah, Missandei, Tyrion, and even Jon talk her out of these decisions, but they're all either dead or traitors (in her eyes, at least) now at this point. As she said herself in this episode, she's now letting fear dictate her actions & decisions and she plans to use fear (and force) to take the throne and continue using it to maintain power & control once she obtains it. Ergo, she plans to become a dictator.
    Yeah, I don't know what to say dude, I just don't personally feel like any of these incidents work as foreshadowing for the fucking crazy genocidal shit from last night. To me, killing direct political enemies, soldiers, or people who are guilty of committing their own crimes and atrocities is not even remotely the same as mass-murdering thousands of unarmed women and children who are totally innocent and pose no threat. That is specifically what I'm talking about when I say there's no precedent for that kind of meaningless sadism from her. Seriously, what's the second worst thing Dany's ever done after this? Whatever you think it is, I guarantee it's not even remotely on the same level as mindlessly slaughtering hordes of innocent civilians.

    To be clear, it's not that I'm upset with this outcome for her character, because I've been hoping that they'd turn Dany into a fascist tyrant ever since season 2 or so. It's just the execution that's lacking. This episode was pretty great on its own, but it was preceded by three seasons of mediocre, fan-fiction writing that failed to develop Dany's character effectively. And in general, the sense of plotting and pacing in this show has been awful for a good two or three seasons now.

  16. #1996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Yeah, I don't know what to say dude, I just don't personally feel like any of these incidents work as foreshadowing for the fucking crazy genocidal shit from last night.
    She literally said she would take what was hers with Fire and Blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmcfly View Post
    She literally said she would take what was hers with Fire and Blood.
    Plus she’s a direct descendant of “the mad king”. She’s as mad as she is royal.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    Plus she’s a direct descendant of “the mad king”.
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    But so is Jon/Aegon.

    Unless he takes more from his Stark half.

  19. #1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmcfly View Post
    She literally said she would take what was hers with Fire and Blood.
    Big deal, I say that every day.

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    I honestly don't know why there's so much hate on this season. seriously everything thats going on is exactly what was being lined up. some people are literally impossible to please.

  21. #2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodi View Post
    But so is Jon/Aegon.

    Unless he takes more from his Stark half.
    Jon was raised a stark and while he was probably emotionally abused by Caitlyn’s coldness he was not emotionally and physically abused the way dany was by her brother.

  22. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Big deal, I say that every day.
    Well it kind of just looks like you're just ignoring the evidence that this was a direction that her character could go then.

  23. #2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    Jon was raised a stark and while he was probably emotionally abused by Caitlyn’s coldness he was not emotionally and physically abused the way dany was by her brother.
    Then again, it is entirely possible that the madness that runs through the Targaryen bloodline comes from inbreeding. While Jon was not subjected to the same environment that Dany was, he can't do anything about his genetic background.

    Anyway, Viserys was as obsess with taking back the Iron Throne as Dany is now. The difference is that he was made to look mad from the start. And even back in season one, the question of both Targaryens sanity was a concern in King's Landing.

  24. #2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmcfly View Post
    Well it kind of just looks like you're just ignoring the evidence that this was a direction that her character could go then.
    Yeah but if the textual evidence is just "Shit Daenerys says sometimes," that evidence cuts both ways. For every scene of her getting pissed off and ranting about razing these motherfuckers to the ground, there's like five more to offset that where she's talking about breaking the wheel and mercy being her strength and whatnot.

    And my point is not that there's NO signs of her becoming a tyrant. The seeds were planted from the beginning, and there were some flashes and initial steps in that direction, but ultimately I don't think it was enough to get her to where she needed to be last night. They had her at maybe a 2 or a 3 on the tyrant scale and then just cranked her up to 11 in the span of like two episodes. They didn't put in enough work over the last few seasons to gradually nudge her further and further in this direction. If we think about Walt in Breaking Bad, he didn't just go from normal dude to mass murdering asshole with only a few moderate transgressions in between. If you want a character to go through a believable transformation (which is 100% what I wanted from Dany's story), you gotta really build their arc and show multiple points of descent.

  25. #2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Yeah but if the textual evidence is just "Shit Daenerys says sometimes," that evidence cuts both ways. For every scene of her getting pissed off and ranting about razing these motherfuckers to the ground, there's like five more to offset that where she's talking about breaking the wheel and mercy being her strength and whatnot.

    And my point is not that there's NO signs of her becoming a tyrant. The seeds were planted from the beginning, and there were some flashes and initial steps in that direction, but ultimately I don't think it was enough to get her to where she needed to be last night.
    You know who's really good at being fucking crazy while tricking people into thinking they're not?

    Successful tyrants.

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    One thing I think about is, no one told her "if you cross this line I can no longer support you?" Why? Because they were afraid of her. Everyone was afraid of her. For a few seasons she's barely uttered a phrase that wasn't about the throne or being queen.

    One of my film professors pointed out that the reason this all feels faster is because all of the characters have consolidated and hang out with each other now. So instead of each characters getting like 4 minutes every other episode or even 15 whole minutes in an entire season, now we spend entire episodes where they're all in the same place and there's only 3 or 4 people to cut from, and the momentum has changed as a result
    Last edited by Wretchedest; 05-14-2019 at 10:14 PM.

  27. #2007
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    Slight diversion...

    if anyone HASN'T checked out the musical project by Jacob Anderson AKA Grey Worm called Raleigh Ritchie...GO NOW.

    Just now discovering his stuff and his 2016 album You're A Man Now, Boy is fantastic.

    Here is his latest single from 2018:

  28. #2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reznor2112 View Post
    Slight diversion...

    if anyone HASN'T checked out the musical project by Jacob Anderson AKA Grey Worm called Raleigh Ritchie...GO NOW.
    He’s great! I was SO stoked when I discovered he had music a while back. He did a guest spot on a couple episodes of Game Grumps and that introduced me to his stuff. I went and listened to YAMNB right away. Hope I can catch him live in the States one of these days! This isn’t from his full-length, but still one of my favorites.



    Edit: Just as a side note, up until now, when I’ve looked back on every season, they’ve mostly managed to improve with age the more I think about them. Season 8 is fine, but it’s the only one that has actually leaned the other way the more I’ve thought about it. :/ Intense, for sure. But a victim of a shift in writing because of a significantly shorter timeframe? More so. Definitely not awful, I should clarify.
    Last edited by ImTheWiseJanitor; 05-16-2019 at 05:22 PM.

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    God... people are petitioning (440,000 so far) to have HBO re-do season 8. Because there's not anything in the world that deserves this attention more than a fantasy TV show. And because it worked out so well for the Star Wars: The Last Jedi petition.

  30. #2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    God... people are petitioning (440,000 so far) to have HBO re-do season 8. Because there's not anything in the world that deserves this attention more than a fantasy TV show. And because it worked out so well for the Star Wars: The Last Jedi petition.
    I think (okay, I hope) that the vast majority of the petitioners are just jumping on it as a meme or a joke. I don't think they actually expect results (or even a response). I certainly don't think they feel entitled to one.

    I'm sure *some* people do, but there are always gonna be some crazies out there.

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