Throbbing Member
While Hesitation Marks was never meant to be a direct sequel TDS but rather an introspection about its era, I still think that you can intepret it that way if you so desire and it works rather well.
This theory in particular is really cool, pretty cool reason for the music to be sounding the way t does.Originally Posted by SchwarzerAbt
Hairy Member
Hesitation Marks fits (story-wise) in-between TDS and TF (with Hurt going into The Eater Of Dreams and Black Noise going into Somewhat Damaged), but you can look at it in either way really. You can have it sit in-between TDS and TF and act as a "flash forward" album (like YZ) or you can just look at HM's place in the discography and see it as a "flash back" album. Both ways work.
Throbbing Member
I think this NIN album has the strongest synths/drum machines work, a lot of people say that they sound all the same, yet there are so many varieties of them throughout this record, I don't think real life drums can do this justice, real drums are nice but they don't fit to me to this very Electronic record (Even though it has a lot of use of guitars).
Active Member
I agree especially as I much prefer the ‘festival’ version of Copy of a rather than the drum based one on the Tension tour
Stubby Member
After the TDS, NIN’s lyrical and conceptual content became saturated with duality, doubles and echoes. You see it in TR’s narrative imagination but also it seemed like in real life he was losing himself to fragmented versions/identities. I think this really comes to life in WT, partly as a very real way of therapeutically reclaiming a real identity outside of NIN, but this also became an opportunity to approach NIN and TR’s fictional imaginative identity inside of NIN as some kind of split from reality but still a real living breathing thing. TR often refers to his past self as “that guy” or when performing saying he teleports back into that person who wrote that song.
I think he has allowed himself to explore this and take it as far as he wants to go with it. It seems like some of what becomes NIN starts with TR in real life have thought experiments or soul searching about his real self and NIN as a musical act. Those explorations then seem to manifest into the imaginary flesh of NIN and TR as concepts within a narrative world. So, we end up with TR’s doubles or echoes or identities and references to NIN within NIN.
Hesitation Marks and the Trilogy took this to a whole new level. Since we are talking about HM in relation to TDS I will focus on that. I think HM is something like Lynch’s Lost Highway. In Lost Highway, you have the idea of psychic transference manifest into flesh and blood reality. Something has happened and now a person so desperately imagines or longs for something different that the person becomes something different, only to end up being haunted by your true self and never being able to escape the momentum of that true self.
HM to me, seems to be about real-life TR thinking about what if that version of himself had taken a different path creatively and a different path within the concept of TDS. This is huge speculation, but, based on what he has said, it seems maybe be feels that the metaphysical thing that compelled him to create the artwork that became TDS was sort of always supposed to be that way. And the fallout of that was in real life TR losing his identity, becoming a version of himself he didn’t like and struggling with addiction. Hesitation Marks is created then out of an idea that collapses in on itself because it is not what was supposed to be. So like in Lost Highway, and I think especially in the two opening and closing tracks, the character in HM and the setting of the album is not meant to be. The world of HM is sort of a plea that whatever the imputes of creation that turned into TDS could instead have been something else. And, maybe to, in real life, TR would not have to have lost himself the way he did.
And I think this is sort of a literal thought experiment for TR the person and for NIN as expression. The person within HM is a copy and does not have much time. A sort of split from the version of TR trapped in the creation of TDS. And, in real life TR is always sort of questioning his place in the world. Am I always going to be a part of the guy who made the TDS or can I be an adult with a family and be that guy too? Those things existing at the same time and the insecurities and questions of who we really are. I think HM ends up telling us that the thing, the muse, the conduit of art, that made real life TR create TDS was sort of destine to create the artwork and the finale version of real life TR. HM splits off or looks back and gives us an alternative, but it devours itself because it was not supposed to be that way.
We are always haunted by echoes or ghosts of our past. We can think of how things might have been, but they were not that way. And whatever it was that created the momentum for the way things were then expressed in a way that they had to. This idea or thought experiment revealed itself through HM in many different real-life ways and narrative creative ways. I even think maybe things as simple as what type of music TR thought he could or should make based on the success and sound of TDS.
For further links to Lost Highway, there is Lynch’s video for CBH, which is very reminiscent of and even looks like the character in Lost Highway during his transfer from or back into his true self.
Sorry this is so long; I will finish this with more movie references. I have never thought TDS was very literal in its narrative or concept. I have always thought TDS was way more Cronenberg’s Videodrome than Scorsese’s Taxi Driver. So, for me, both TDS and HM are not just literal stories of a guy self-destructing or a guy RUNNING from that self-destruction guy.
Hairy Member
I think the biggest hint that HM is a parallel version of TDS is the track-list similarities.
And the same thing happening within The Trilogy. The three different track-lists within The Trilogy are parallel as well and work as different paths or versions of NIN during that era. I always saw Over And Out as sort of the credits track to the whole Trilogy, being that 6th track and sticking out compared to the other two EP's. Sounds like it would work as a great credits song too.
Active Member
I still stand by my interpretation of TDS in which a dude buys a bunch of pigs so he can have sex with them, then moves on to iguanas later.
she/her/hers
Active Member
Album grew on me.
Still can't get over the lyrics for ATL and CBH, still don't care for Everything, Black Noise and The Eater...
But I also love the production, I love the guitar contributions of Belew & Co. and I love those instrumental demos from that "In Conversation with.." Interview.
Throbbing Member
This was the album that got me into NIN again. I wasn't a huge fan of The Slip and I didn't like Ghost I - IV at all, but when I heard Came Back Haunted and Copy of A, they just hit me in the gut. I was like fuck yes! And I loved the rest of the album too. I also like the connection it has to TDS. I have to admit, Everything threw me for a loop, but I dig it. It's one of those songs I have to be in the mood for. HM isn't the best NIN release, but it's still a really solid album.
Throbbing Member
Everytime I hear "Copy of a" I am amazed around 3:30 how it calms down, I probably mentioned this before, it's not just fade down of tracks. Reminds me of "Field of dreams" movie characters disappearing into cornfield - almost real but not completely, wait something was not normal there, what exactly happened?
Active Member
Love the Tension live version of In Two with the band and back up vocalists
Flaccid Member
All this talk about HM reminded me that I was looking for many years to get the elusive remix of Disappointed by Future Funk Squad. Finally, I’m glad to announce that we can finally listen to it with an option to download in lossless format at this address: https://futurefunksquad.bandcamp.com...rmx-nin-rmx-s4 . If you feel cheap you can also get it for free, but that’s up to you… Enjoy!
nincatalog.com
Thanks! I updated the NINwiki page as well to reflect this. https://www.nin.wiki/Disappointed
Active Member
Is this 'official' or fan made? What's the story behind it?
Administrator
Sounds like it was officially commissioned, but unused.
Active Member
I can't believe it's been an entire fucking DECADE already, but Hesitation Marks is 10 years old today. Giving it a spin to mark the occasion. I'm sure it's because of the time of year it came out and when I was digesting it, but this album always makes me think of Fall and I've always thought it has a bit of a Halloween vibe to it. This also means that the other album I was obsessed with in 2013—...Like Clockwork by Queens of the Stone Age—is also 10 years old. Time flies (a little too fast lately).
EDIT: Looks like I may have jumped the gun by a few days (the correct date of September 3, 2013 is even in the title of the thread. Duuuur), but in my defense, Wikipedia lists the release date as August 30, 3013, so it's their fault. Also, it leaked early, so most of us WERE listening to it by now. But to further drive home the point of how long ago it was, Hesitation Marks came out back when new music was still released on Tuesdays.
Last edited by sonic_discord; 08-30-2023 at 11:04 AM.
nindivinedebris
I think it was released to streaming services early due to the leak, so that's probably where the various dates are coming from.
Active Member
Yes, you are correct. I was here reading all of the comments back then, but it was during my lurking phase (I was a member of the old ETS that crashed and hadn't created a new login yet), so I didn't participate in the discussion. But I remember that.
Active Member
I feel like I talk about this song the most of anyone on ETS. It needs to become a live staple. Best song on HM other than maybe Copy of A.
Throbbing Member
For my money that would be In Two. I know a number of people including you love VMOE but I've always felt it was solid but not standout. Hesitation Marks is a good album but it's definitely at its most stale and inconsistent in its middle (roughly), from Disappointed through I Would For You, at least in my opinion. Definitely a worthwhile release though.
Can't believe it has been just about ten years since it was released. Boy I feel old and unaccomplished!
Throbbing Member
Co-sign on "VMOE." Twas awesome to hear live back in the day. Actually might be my top NIN song now, which is craziness.
Stubby Member
I was moving into my current house the day it leaked. And I was trying to have have my priorities in order to everyone around me that day.
But I was listening to individule songs on YouTube throughout the day whenever I had a chance.
I Would For You was a standout for me and still one of favorite NIN songs.
Weirdly or thankfully, the album does not remind me of the move in because it had become my go to shovel snow song.
The first winter in the house the album was still fresh and I listened to it while shoveling snow.
And now it's a funny tradition. I actually enjoy shoveling snow if I have plenty of time and it's not like life threatening outside.
Something about stopping for a breather in winter with 6 inches of snow on the ground at dusk and Find My Way comes on.
I like all the songs but do agree with some that it is maybe not as cohesive as it could be.
But I do like some of the weird choices and on it and it def sounds different than other NIN albums.
And in 4 months I'm sure I will be playing it a few times through the winter.
Active Member
Apparently this was a limited option as it's down now.
Throbbing Member
FFS also had a really awesome remix of HLAH for sale.
Sadly both are gone, but happily they're available to listen on SoundCloud. HLAH is an absolute Banger and The Crystal Method plays it on his set often.
https://m.soundcloud.com/futurefunks...in-hlh-ffs-rmx
Disappointed: https://m.soundcloud.com/futurefunks...s-remix-128kps
Last edited by shagg_187; 08-30-2023 at 09:09 PM.
Active Member
thanks for that, can't wait to listen.
Hairy Member
I have Disappointed in lossless if anyone is interested. Would love to get a hold of HLAH in lossless as well if anyone out there has it.
Active Member
+1 for Various Methods of Escape! It's probably my favorite track on the album, although In Two, All Time Low, and Satellite are close runner-ups. I also agree that they should drop Copy of A (I don't dislike it, I've just seen it many times) in favor of bringing VMOE back into the rotation.
Active Member
+1 for VMOE too.
Copy of A is fine, it's just that it's just another NIN single, like Less Than, The Beginning of the End, Discipline, The Hand That Feeds... Not only are those tracks pretty disposable after a short while IMO, but there's already Came Back Haunted on this album
Active Member
This album (and subsequent shows) reaffirmed NIN as my favorite band in a point in my life where I wasn’t sure they were still my favorite. I remember seeing the tweet from Trent with the pitchfork article that said NIN returns. Can remember how excited I was when I was sitting in my 8am comparative politics class. This album is probably my third favorite album. Love every track on it. While I’m Still Here, Various Methods of Escape, and Came Back Haunted are probably my favorites on there. Additionally, Came Back Haunted is my wife’s most hated NIN song to this day.
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