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Thread: halo twenty eight. hesitation marks. 09.03.2013

  1. #7111
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    Running sounds like an outtake from Niggy Tardust tbh. Expect Saul's voice popping up anytime.
    That’s fair to say, because in that same vein, for me, it has a strong sound of things a la The Fragile, which is probably why I really like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HurtinMinorKey View Post
    At this point, it's the only memorable song on the album for me. I don't love it, but it sounded more genuine than just about everything else on the album.
    oh snap dude!!!

    Just no!!
    Last edited by Amaro; 12-11-2017 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #7112
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    Quote Originally Posted by HurtinMinorKey View Post
    At this point, it's the only memorable song on the album for me. I don't love it, but it sounded more genuine than just about everything else on the album.
    You didn't find Various Methods of Escape or I Would for You to be genuine? I don't even know what to say...

  3. #7113
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    You didn't find Various Methods of Escape or I Would for You to be genuine? I don't even know what to say...
    Or While I'm Still Here
    Or In Two
    Or Find My Way
    Or Running....
    Fuck it, every track.

    Hesitation Marks is raw as hell.

  4. #7114
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    Listened to Hesitation Marks (audiophile, btw what happened to this interesting experiment) yesterday evening, mp3 player and pillow over my face (yeah, I like the warmth and disconnect), after about week without listening to anything - and it worked so well, aaaaargh, orgasm. Even the more repetitive songs are OK, but what follows them is mind-blowing. And the last three songs are one of the best LP endings I know. Even the remixes are good ("Find my way" some strong sustained notes, and then when it becomes peaceful, shivers), and the four "Conversation" demos I can't remember if I cut myself from some iTunes-only file or from where. So, Hesitation Marks are still good, don't you forget that! :-)

    Edit: The last three I mean For you - In two - While+Noise.
    I just don't know anymore...
    I just don't know anymore...
    I just don't know anymore...
    Last edited by Substance242; 12-18-2017 at 11:09 AM.

  5. #7115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Substance242 View Post
    ... And the last three songs are one of the best LP endings I know. Even the remixes are good ("Find my way" some strong sustained notes, and then when it becomes peaceful, shivers), and the four "Conversation" demos I can't remember if I cut myself from some iTunes-only file or from where. So, Hesitation Marks are still good, don't you forget that! :-)

    Edit: The last three I mean For you - In two - While+Noise...
    Iíve made the argument in several non-ETS spaces that While Iím Still Here / Black Noise is as perfect a song as I could have hoped for, and a great ending of an album to boot (it's easily T5 for best album closers). Hell, I wrote about just this pairing a few years ago over here. I'll go on record now, with many years of absorbing Hesitation Marks, that it is still my favorite NIN album, and that WISH/BN close the album perfectly. Perfectly.

  6. #7116
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    I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

    Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

    I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

    Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

  7. #7117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

    Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

    I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

    Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
    What elements of the music are hip-hop to you ?

  8. #7118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

    Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

    I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

    Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

  9. #7119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

    Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

    I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

    Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
    Some of the beats in songs like "Satellite", "Running" and "While I'm Still Here" do sound hip hop-ish, but i think the whole album has all kinds of influences and sounds, at moments it sounds a bit influenced by LCD Soundsystem.

    Come at me!
    Last edited by henryeatscereal; 01-07-2019 at 12:27 AM.

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    Although I prefer the current line-up, I really liked the expanded band with Pino Pallidino & the back up singers (wish Adrian Belew hadn't backed out!). It was different for NIN & IMHO quite good. & the visuals on that tour were stunning.

  11. #7121
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    Some of the beats in songs like "Satellite", "Running" and "While I'm Still Here" do sound hip hop-ish, but i think the whole albums has all kinds of influences and sounds, at moments it sounds a bit influenced by LCD Soundsystem.

    Come at me!
    I would agree that there are other influences in there. But also consider that hip hop itself includes some of these influences these days too. Definitely blurry lines between genres.

    Also consider that he did most of the first pass of composing on the Maschine from what I understand and that is very beat-oriented. Often used to compose hip-hop beats.

    Finally, I would just propose that anyone interested just go give it a listen. Tune out the lyrics and listen to the music and consider the idea. Everything is more Joy Division and In Two is a bit of a stretch towards the end of it, but every other track would work on a hip hop record.

    I think back to previous songs and there are very few that would work in the same way. Down in it of course. Closer. Maybe a couple off With Teeth and maybe Echoplex off The Slip? But not a lot.

    I would be very interested to hear Trentís thoughts. Perhaps he would totally disagree with me? Iím happy to hear other points of view. I really donít have stake in it. I like Saul Williams, RTJ, and a few others, but in general itís not my genre.

    Hesitation Marks feels more and more like an anomaly in the catalogue these days. I really like it but itís also very unique compared to what came before and after and somewhat puzzling to me now after the Trilogy.

  12. #7122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    I would agree that there are other influences in there. But also consider that hip hop itself includes some of these influences these days too. Definitely blurry lines between genres.

    Also consider that he did most of the first pass of composing on the Maschine from what I understand and that is very beat-oriented. Often used to compose hip-hop beats.

    Finally, I would just propose that anyone interested just go give it a listen. Tune out the lyrics and listen to the music and consider the idea. Everything is more Joy Division and In Two is a bit of a stretch towards the end of it, but every other track would work on a hip hop record.

    I think back to previous songs and there are very few that would work in the same way. Down in it of course. Closer. Maybe a couple off With Teeth and maybe Echoplex off The Slip? But not a lot.

    I would be very interested to hear Trent’s thoughts. Perhaps he would totally disagree with me? I’m happy to hear other points of view. I really don’t have stake in it. I like Saul Williams, RTJ, and a few others, but in general it’s not my genre.

    Hesitation Marks feels more and more like an anomaly in the catalogue these days. I really like it but it’s also very unique compared to what came before and after and somewhat puzzling to me now after the Trilogy.
    some great songs on the record. "find my way" is 1 of my favorite NIN songs & to my ears "copy of a" was sounding great this year. as good as anything in the catalog & that's saying a lot!

  13. #7123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    ...
    Finally, I would just propose that anyone interested just go give it a listen. Tune out the lyrics and listen to the music and consider the idea. Everything is more Joy Division and In Two is a bit of a stretch towards the end of it, but every other track would work on a hip hop record.
    Isn't that just Trip Hop then

  14. #7124
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    It's an interesting idea, but ultimately too far-fetched, imo. Genres of any kind aren't limited to the use of certain equipment, for one.

    The record was probably influenced by many different artists or genres. There certainly is a Hip Hop element to it in SOME of the beats, but there are many examples, where there are clearly cues from other genres.

    See, for example: "Copy Of A" vs. " "

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    Trent's been into Hip Hop from the beginning with Down In It. The Fragile was supposed slated to be "a funk hip-hop record", which obviously changed a bit, but he still worked with Dr Dre. Later, with Saul Williams, interestingly on some of the unreleased songs from that same album.

    To say the whole of Hesitation Marks is supposed to be rap album is maybe stretching it a little. However, the influence is undeniable.

  16. #7126
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    I just want to make the distinction- a rap/ hip hop album *musically*. That he is not rapping or speaking over the music makes a big difference in terms of the final genre. But I would encourage everyone to go and listen to the actual music itself and tune out the lyrics and tell me Iím wrong about it.

    And again itís way different from every other NIN album in this regard. You could not turn off The Slip or The Fragile and have Mos Def or Killer Mike rhyme over it. But almost all of Hesitation Marks could easily serve that purpose.

    It is probably because it is more beat-based than the other records, and itís beat based because thatís how he started composing it.

    Again this is just how it strikes me. Style and genre are subjective and overlap a lot.

  17. #7127
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    I personally don’t hear it at all on HM. Closest thing to a NIN rap/hip hop record is probably Year Zero- and I think Trent mentioned it a bit back in the day. Not all of the songs but some with the more “electronica “ production.

    And Down In It is definitely a rap rock tune. Not sure if he meant do that back in the day on purpose. Regardless, do yourself a favor and play DII on someone’s car stereo that has a subwoofer. It’s pretty damn cool with the hard hits and bass drops even to this day.

  18. #7128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
    I personally don’t hear it at all on HM. Closest thing to a NIN rap/hip hop record is probably Year Zero- and I think Trent mentioned it a bit back in the day. Not all of the songs but some with the more “electronica “ production.

    And Down In It is definitely a rap rock tune. Not sure if he meant do that back in the day on purpose. Regardless, do yourself a favor and play DII on someone’s car stereo that has a subwoofer. It’s pretty damn cool with the hard hits and bass drops even to this day.

    Vessel hammers too, but what really shreds cones is the first Puscifer record.

  19. #7129
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    @Max - It's hard to come up with examples without going discussing other Nine Inch Nails songs and albums, but it always made sense to be because of Trent Reznor's eclectic preferences, influences and inspirations. I've always liked how Nine Inch Nails can easily appeal to fans of rock and pop in general, and even rap as we can apparently see. It also makes even more sense considering how well his music works when remixed and mashed up. So, aside from fame, success and popularity, I always thought it's cool how a massive range of eclectic and overall diverse tastes also appeared to fans of just about any genre of music.

    Anyway The Gangsta, The Killa and The Dope Dealer by Westside Connection, which sampled Hurt came to mind.



    As for Hesitation Marks itself, I could totally see how it can work with rap. I do see how pop is a given though, but I still see what you mean.

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    I should clarify that Iím not even into rap or hip hop all that much. I like Saul Williams and RTJ are pretty good... but my other favorite bands are Bowie, Radiohead, and Mogwai. Iím just saying that this isnít coming from a place of me hearing what I want to hear.

    Itís interesting that many others arenít hearing it the same way so I think iíll let it go here. I wasnít sure if everyone else already thought the same or not.

    Even this issue aside, the more time passes and the more material NIN releases, the more HM stands out to me as a real departure from the rest of their material.

    Reminds me of how Bowie or others would reinvent themselves over time. You go back and listen to Young Americans and it feels like a different person from other records.

    For me, Bad Witch felt like a real departure as well, in a good way. Almost a new form of music.

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