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Thread: halo twenty eight. hesitation marks. 09.03.2013

  1. #7141
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    Quote Originally Posted by slopesandsam View Post
    and the post-punk movement in general were doing the heavy production + drum machine thing before it became a staple of hip-hop. You could probably argue that that movement (if not NIN in particular) were influences on rap and hip-hop production, and then rap and hip-hop production was an influence on NIN in turn.
    If we take the evolution of the Purest Feeling demos to the finished Pretty Hate Machine album, I think that the production Adrian Sherwood and Keith LeBlanc had bears out that... coming from Reggae/Dub/Industrial roots (with On-U Sound and Ministry) and Tommy Boy respectively.

  2. #7142
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    Quote Originally Posted by slopesandsam View Post
    I feel like this is sort of a snake-eating-its-own-tail argument. Because NIN, other industrial bands, and the post-punk movement in general were doing the heavy production + drum machine thing before it became a staple of hip-hop. You could probably argue that that movement (if not NIN in particular) were influences on rap and hip-hop production, and then rap and hip-hop production was an influence on NIN in turn.
    Yeah thatís just not true at all. Hip hop and rap date back to the early eighties. You should watch the documentary on Amazon about the 808 drum machine. As with much of modern music, the innovations actually came from the black community and were later cooped by white culture. The same is true of jazz, blues, rock and roll, and rap, all of which are the foundations of modern music.

    Trent Reznor is absolutely innovative and yes his music did go on to become an influence for all kinds of musicians including hip hop artists. But letís be honest with ourselves. Trent Reznor did not in any way lay the foundation for modern hip hop.

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    I remembered this week that I had the audiophile mastered version in a hard drive, and I hadn't listened to it in years. While "audiophile" might not have been the best way to describe this master, it's amazing how much the album improves by listening to this version.
    Last edited by mauro995; 05-11-2019 at 06:13 AM.

  4. #7144
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    After getting into The Cure I get more vibes from them throughout most of Hesitation Marks rather than Hip-Hop, especially "Everything", perhaps it's just that one song, but I connect Hesitation Marks to some Cure albums..

    The more of a Hip-Hop influenced album is Year Zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by mauro995 View Post
    I remembered this week that I had the audiophile mastered version in a hard drive, and I hadn't listened to it in years. While "audiophile" might not have been the best way to describe this master, it's amazing how much the album improves by listening to this version.
    I haven't listened to the "normal" master of the album in years, I always stick to the "Audiophile" now. I am not sure how significant the differences actually are between the two masters.

  5. #7145
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    I recently put this album back on again after sitting on it for awhile and I forgot how much there was to enjoy through it. I see this album get more of a negative rep. than it actually deserves. I get the criticism at times, but overall - I still really enjoy this one. Honestly, the only track that doesn't work for me is "Satellite" and that's probably due to how Year Zero the song feels in both a production standpoint and lyrically. Year Zero still remains the one Nine Inch Nails project that no matter how many times I want it to click for me it ... it never does.

    Also, if there's a fan club for those who actually really love "Everything" - let me be a member, please. It's SO unlike anything within the rest of the album and I'll fully admit that the track doesn't belong on the record ... but it wears it's love for The Cure on it's sleeve and it's just a really enjoyable track. I think my admiration of similar sounding bands makes me enjoy the track as much as I do.

    To me, Hesitation Marks is like With Teeth with a little bit of The Fragile mixed in. There are hooks all over the record, but there's a lot more going on within the textures of the tracks than the straight-forward rock of WT. With a little bit more added to them ... songs like "Disappointed", "Various Methods of Escape" (some two of my favorites off the album), "Running" and "In Two" could've easily sat on Disc 2 of The Fragile IMO. I get where Trent is coming from in that the album has a "minimal" approach ("Copy of A"'s rigid, yet awesome drum sequence for sure) but there is a lot beneath the surface to enjoy. Though it's a little all over the place and Trent would kick the shit out of my expectations a few years later with Bad Witch, it was good to revisit this album again.
    Last edited by thefragile_jake; 05-11-2019 at 12:45 PM.

  6. #7146
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefragile_jake View Post
    I recently put this album back on again after sitting on it for awhile and I forgot how much there was to enjoy through it. I see this album get more of a negative rep. than it actually deserves. I get the criticism at times, but overall - I still really enjoy this one. Honestly, the only track that doesn't work for me is "Satellite" and that's probably due to how Year Zero the song feels in both a production standpoint and lyrically. Year Zero still remains the one Nine Inch Nails project that no matter how many times I want it to click for me it ... it never does.

    Also, if there's a fan club for those who actually really love "Everything" - let me be a member, please. It's SO unlike anything within the rest of the album and I'll fully admit that the track doesn't belong on the record ... but it wears it's love for The Cure on it's sleeve and it's just a really enjoyable track. I think my enjoyment of similar sounding bands makes me enjoy the track as much as I do.

    To me, Hesitation Marks is like With Teeth with a little bit of The Fragile mixed in. There are hooks all over the record, but there's a lot more going on within the textures of the tracks than the straight-forward rock of WT. With a little bit more added to them ... songs like "Disappointed", "Various Methods of Escape" (some two of my favorites off the album), "Running" and "In Two" could've easily sat on Disc 2 of The Fragile IMO. I get where Trent is coming from in that the album has a "minimal" approach ("Copy of A"'s rigid, yet awesome drum sequence for sure) but there is a lot beneath the surface to enjoy. Though it's a little all over the place and Trent would kick the shit out of my expectations a few years later with Bad Witch, it was good to revisit this album again.
    I am totally with you on all of this. Count me in on Everything as well. People don't know what's good.

  7. #7147
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefragile_jake View Post
    I recently put this album back on again after sitting on it for awhile and I forgot how much there was to enjoy through it. I see this album get more of a negative rep. than it actually deserves. I get the criticism at times, but overall - I still really enjoy this one. Honestly, the only track that doesn't work for me is "Satellite" and that's probably due to how Year Zero the song feels in both a production standpoint and lyrically. Year Zero still remains the one Nine Inch Nails project that no matter how many times I want it to click for me it ... it never does.

    Also, if there's a fan club for those who actually really love "Everything" - let me be a member, please. It's SO unlike anything within the rest of the album and I'll fully admit that the track doesn't belong on the record ... but it wears it's love for The Cure on it's sleeve and it's just a really enjoyable track. I think my admiration of similar sounding bands makes me enjoy the track as much as I do.

    To me, Hesitation Marks is like With Teeth with a little bit of The Fragile mixed in. There are hooks all over the record, but there's a lot more going on within the textures of the tracks than the straight-forward rock of WT. With a little bit more added to them ... songs like "Disappointed", "Various Methods of Escape" (some two of my favorites off the album), "Running" and "In Two" could've easily sat on Disc 2 of The Fragile IMO. I get where Trent is coming from in that the album has a "minimal" approach ("Copy of A"'s rigid, yet awesome drum sequence for sure) but there is a lot beneath the surface to enjoy. Though it's a little all over the place and Trent would kick the shit out of my expectations a few years later with Bad Witch, it was good to revisit this album again.
    EXACTLY what I was thinking of, the record gave me a lot of The Fragile vibes. Stuff like "Even Deeper" wouldn't be out of place on Hesitation Marks.

    What sometimes bothers me how people look at this album as Trent's "happy" album, I think that is just not understanding what each of the songs are trying to get across.

    Also, I am on that "Everything rocks" club, I think, when you think about it, it works even in the context of the album Disappointed goes really well into it.

  8. #7148
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    This morning I put on HM and I was suddenly struck by how this album could have been approached a little differently to give it a different story arc and get rid of a couple tracks that feel a little weaker or don't fit. I know that's an audacious claim to make, but it has increased my enjoyment of the album and perhaps it will do the same for you. Think of this as an alternate universe version of what Hesitation Marks could have been if Trent and Atticus had made a few different editorial choices. Not better or worse, just different:

    "Everything"
    "Came Back Haunted"
    "In Two"
    "All Time Low"
    "The Eater of Dreams"
    "Copy of a"
    "Disappointed"
    "I Would for You"
    "Various Methods of Escape"
    "While I'm Still Here"
    "Black Noise"
    "Find My Way"


    "Satellite" was cut because while it fits the album sonically, I believe that it is thematically out of place. "Running" is cut because it is a decent track, but it doesn't really say anything that the others do not. This leaves it at 12 tracks. One might even cut "Disappointed" and "In Two" if you really wanted to be ruthless. I like those tracks, but they would be the next to end up as B-sides as far as I am concerned.

    I paid a lot of attention to how the songs flow into one another. "Eater of Dreams" works nicely before "Copy of a", and serves as a quiet interlude. Everything opens up the album as kind of a thesis - here is what the album is about - but also serves to say, "this is where my journey begins. I survived everything. Now what?" The story arc kind of ends at "While I'm Still Here" but now "Find My Way" serves as a coda - kind of like Hurt. An appeal and maybe a question to end the album. And it ends where it began - I have to every place. I have been to everywhere.

    I feel blasphemous for posting this - like why should I know better than Trent and Atticus about the order of the album and the arc of the story, so take all this for what it is. It's just something I discovered that I enjoy.


    I guess this is what we do when there is no NIN news or releases for a while...

  9. #7149
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    Oh, and on InTwo - starting at 2:57 - is that a sample of Hurt playing?! If you go to the end of Hurt (like 5:12) or so.... it sounds the SAME to me. Like he put that last part of hurt as a sample on a keyboard and just kept hitting it but only letting you hear a fraction of a second of it each time.

    Maybe it just sounds similar, but it would make a lot of sense.

  10. #7150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    Oh, and on InTwo - starting at 2:57 - is that a sample of Hurt playing?! If you go to the end of Hurt (like 5:12) or so.... it sounds the SAME to me. Like he put that last part of hurt as a sample on a keyboard and just kept hitting it but only letting you hear a fraction of a second of it each time.

    Maybe it just sounds similar, but it would make a lot of sense.
    I think it's a different synth, though superficially they do bear some resemblance. If you listen very closely the sound gets filtered all over the place and seems to build in intensity after the guitars re-enter. So, probably not just a single sample, but a continuous tone being manipulated through synthesis (possibly racks and racks of modular units).

  11. #7151
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    @Max currently trying your tracklist. I added Satellite and Running between Everything and Came Back Haunted, and it works I think. Also weird for In Two to not be the climax at the tail of the album but it works. Great flow between all time low and the eater of dreams.
    Last edited by StockAvuryah; 06-12-2019 at 06:48 AM.

  12. #7152
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    Quote Originally Posted by StockAvuryah View Post
    @Max currently trying your tracklist. I added Satellite and Running between Everything and Came Back Haunted, and it works I think. Also weird for In Two to not be the climax at the tail of the album but it works. Great flow between all time low and the eater of dreams.
    Oh cool! It just goes to show how much the arrangement of the tracks affects the experience and even the meaning of an album. Like editing a movie. A actually love satellite, it just feels more Year Zero in its content. But what a great album.

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    "While I'm Still Here" and "Black Noise" had me in awe last night. I guess it was my first full listen since I bought some new head phones, but wow, I can't stop thinking about listening to those two songs again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d1stinct View Post
    "While I'm Still Here" and "Black Noise" had me in awe last night. I guess it was my first full listen since I bought some new head phones, but wow, I can't stop thinking about listening to those two songs again.
    I always crave Branches/Bones after those. And then the rest of The Trilogy. And then the next NIN release. Thank you Black Noise.

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