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Thread: Michael Jackson

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    Michael Jackson

    I haven't really followed up on the posthumous releases, and there hasn't been a Michael Jackson album that really let me down. I don't listen to HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I and Invincible as much as Off The Wall through Dangerous though, and I still have had a soft spot for HIStory and a few favorite songs from Invincible regardless. As for anybody that's gotten into any of the posthumous releases and gave them a try, did you like them, or did they disappoint you?

    http://www.michaeljackson.com/

    https://www.facebook.com/michaeljackson

    https://twitter.com/michaeljackson

    https://www.instagram.com/michaeljackson/

    https://www.youtube.com/user/michaeljackson

    https://www.youtube.com/user/michaeljacksonVEVO

    https://plus.google.com/+MichaelJackson

    http://www.mjjcommunity.com/

    http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/forum.php

    http://www.historycontinues.com/forums/forum.php
    Last edited by Halo Infinity; 10-26-2016 at 08:44 PM.

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    Did anyone else see the Leaving Neverland documentary? How do you feel about enjoying Michael Jackson's music now? I found the two accusers to be very credible. I do like some of his songs and think it's okay to listen to his music, you have to separate the art from the artist. That said, I can never see Jackson the same way after hearing the graphic details described in that movie.

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    I haven't watched the film, but I didn't really need to... there was a pretty insightful and heart-breaking analysis/reaction from the New York Times' culture critic Wesley Morris when he appeared on The Daily podcast a while back, the episode was called "Reckoning With the Real Michael Jackson". Obviously a difficult listen, and potentially triggering for its frank discussion of abuse. But I agree with his position — "separate the art from the artist" is hard work. It's especially hard when the artist's art is so ingrained in everything around us.

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    I enjoy his music with a cringe now, if that makes sense. Like, I love this song, but there's an unavoidable subtext to it now.

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    I honestly never really enjoyed Michael Jackson's music as I always got a weird vibe from him. He just creeped me out. It was difficult to separate that. This was even before what has come out. I just never got the love to be honest. It always made me cringe. But that's me... cringing and creeped out.

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    I'm in a similar boat. When i was growing up i only really found out about him via the trials in the 90's (and my mothers constant playing of his music) so i was always a bit "...somethings not right here" with him and thus never got into the music. But i do get how big an impact his music has ad on so many people (including many family members) so this is all a bit difficult for them to process. Can you ever truly remove the art from the artist?

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    Everyone’s interaction with art and how they relate it to its creator is valid I think generally speaking so I get how some people are never bothered by this sort of thing, and why some people have a hardline feeling that they never can enjoy work by someone they learn to be horrible. I’ve always found when the person who was terrible is dead, I don’t have that hard of a time still listening to their music. I’m not financially enriching them, I’m not supporting their lifestyle, etc.

    His hits are so embedded in my head as the archetypal perfect pop songs and I’ll never not find myself getting in the groove to something like Thriller or Smooth Criminal, but I also wouldn’t wear a shirt with his name/face on it. I think it’s complex and how we react to these things isn’t a cut and dry scenario even though a lot of people act like it is. When it’s someone presented as a solo artist and their face is on every album cover and their name is synonmous with their music it definitely makes it harder to see their private identity and their artistic persona as separate but my brain’s kind of always split the two up, regardless of who or what it is. I also think culturally as a whole we kind of pick and choose who to deem worthy of artistic erasure and who to continue celebrating the work of — if one member of a collaborative band was bad, we don’t seem to care quite as much, and if it was a behind the scenes role like a producer we don’t care either. It’s the same thing with Hollywood — we’ll condemn a director’s or actor’s body of work but if someone listed lower in the credits turned out to be an abuser we’d likely never hear about it or have it impact our appreciation of the films they were a part of.

    If Michael Jackson was alive and touring and releasing new songs i’d probably have a different feeling on it but also I grew up seeing him treated as a creep and then when he died canonized as a beloved genius and it kind of numbed me to having strong attitudes in general because of how easily people were willing to suddenly change their tune. Before his death when I was in school he was a punchline and after that summer everyone suddenly had wristbands and t-shirts and his songs were everywhere again. I don’t have a way of really explaining it that makes total sense, I just don’t think someone’s moral character has a whole lot to do with their ability to create art or not. I’m not going to give money to someone I see as having done horrific things or celebrate them as a person but if I interact with a piece of art and it moves me I’m not too terribly concerned about who was involved in the creation of it. And yet I could never watch the Cosby Show now, probably because that was so specifically about creating a certain image of the guy. It’s not a black and white, sense-making thing for me and I think most people are the same.

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    I saw the documentaries, probably some of it it's true, i still listen to him anyway, it's dumb just to "bury" music you grew up on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    i still listen to him anyway, it's dumb just to "bury" music you grew up on...
    I think it's worthwhile to investigate this impulse, in fact. Did you listen to the interview I linked? It's a pretty vivid, intense evocation of what kind of power Jackson exerted over American culture; a "rocket ship to bliss" I think is how his presence was described. It's worth unpacking that baggage a bit in this new light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    I think it's worthwhile to investigate this impulse, in fact. Did you listen to the interview I linked? It's a pretty vivid, intense evocation of what kind of power Jackson exerted over American culture; a "rocket ship to bliss" I think is how his presence was described. It's worth unpacking that baggage a bit in this new light.
    I did heard the podcast and i do agree with many of the points they make:

    I wasn't trying to sound "cynical" or even say that i "support" what Jackson did, all i was saying it's that his influence was so big in my life (just like so many others...) that "erasing" him doesn't make any sense to me (as the podcaster said: Michael Jackson's legacy is bigger than him...)

    We can't just ignore the positive and creative influence it had on all society, hell i wouldn't be such a big music fan if it wasn't for him and many talented artist wouldn't exist if it wasn't for him.

    But yes: we have to be aware of what he did, we can't just ignore it, but "erasing him" from history is something that is beyond us.

    We have to grow up and understand that these are fallible and imperfect human beings, they get so big that we tend to forget that, but stuff like these put our feet on the ground.

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    I was listening to Dangerous for the first time in ages last night. It was released in November of 1991 (I was 12), so it's the first MJ album where I remember the release as an event. Funny how it sold millions of copies but has been sort of forgotten over time.

    I feel that the album is overly long (like a lot of albums from the first half of the 1990's), and it times feels somewhat monotonous. Still, the singles are great. "Remember the Time" in particular is really, really good.
    Last edited by GulDukat; 04-25-2019 at 10:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I honestly never really enjoyed Michael Jackson's music as I always got a weird vibe from him. He just creeped me out. It was difficult to separate that. This was even before what has come out. I just never got the love to be honest. It always made me cringe. But that's me... cringing and creeped out.
    Same. I get why he was huge. But I never cared for him really at all. Same creepy vibes. I didn't doubt for one second when the accusations came out back in the day that they were true.




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    Quote Originally Posted by DVYDRNS View Post
    Same. I get why he was huge. But I never cared for him really at all. Same creepy vibes. I didn't doubt for one second when the accusations came out back in the day that they were true.




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    I'm 39, so when I was a kid, even though we didn't own any of his albums, I knew who he was, and this was during his pre-creepy vibe era, at a time when Bill Cosby was "America's Dad." So I have memories of how people used to see him and how people have seen him really since around 1993.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhettButler View Post
    I'm 39, so when I was a kid, even though we didn't own any of his albums, I knew who he was, and this was during his pre-creepy vibe era, at a time when Bill Cosby was "America's Dad." So I have memories of how people used to see him and how people have seen him really since around 1993.
    I'm 39 as well. We had his albums. i grew up on it. I just never thought it was all that great. I mean. like i said. I got it. I just didn't care for it.

    I thought Purple rain kicked thriller and dangerous' ass.

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    I think this is the thing with a bunch of people this age... When we were kids, we were completely inundated with Michael Jackson hysteria everywhere. Kids don't have the best filters when it comes to discerning quality as opposed to the blinding light of pre-internet advertising. It was more than music, this was a cult of personality... and it came with this eerie appeal to children.

    And I never really "got it." I remember feeling almost like a fool if I didn't pick up Dangerous when it came out, and so when I sat down and listened to it I remember being really perplexed with how plastic it felt. I had also grown up hearing his music everywhere, and at the end of the day, I really only have a handful of songs from him that I still would say I like.

    And I'll like those songs. Especially Smooth Criminal. That's a great song. As far as worshiping the man, I'd always been of the "eh no thanks" opinion, and then when the more disgusting scandals seeped out, it turned into "eh fuck this."

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    I like the Off The Wall singles, as in I will not change the radio if they come on. But I don't own the album or the singles. And when I was a kid music was not that big a deal to me. That changed only when I discovered heavy-handed rock music like Pink Floyd and The Doors, and was now in complete rejection of the pop music I merely tolerated when I was younger.

    I haven't seen the documentary, so I can't comment on it. I have not dove deep enough to have any definitive opinion on his guilt or innocence, but I do think we need to recognize his father as great a monster as people say MJ is who believe in the charges against him. He almost acted like someone who ran Sea World or ran a circus that whipped elephants, but with his own children instead.

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    Remember that Michael Jackson video game for Sega Genesis? You actually played Michael Jackson and had to rescue little children, who would say "Michael," when you picked them up. Weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhettButler View Post
    Remember that Michael Jackson video game for Sega Genesis? You actually played Michael Jackson and had to rescue little children, who would say "Michael," when you picked them up. Weird.
    Yeah, it was Moonwalker... a tie-in to the movie, which was a music video collection largely featuring the video for Smooth Criminal, along with some surreal and weird bumper material. They also made an arcade game adaptation.

    This kind of image of Michael Jackson as some deity/saint on a mission to rescue children was a recurring motif though. He did it at the Brit Pop awards performing Earth Song, where he had a bunch of disheveled kids bursting out of their ratty garments into robes when Michael Jackson touched them (after descending onto the stage like Christ I guess). This led Jarvis Cocker from Pulp to storm the stage and give him the finger repeatedly (or the "fuck you" two-fingered V gesture)... resulting in a security guard charging the stage to apprehend him and instead knocking into the kids when Cocker jumped out of the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhettButler View Post
    Remember that Michael Jackson video game for Sega Genesis? You actually played Michael Jackson and had to rescue little children, who would say "Michael," when you picked them up. Weird.
    James Rolfe does reference this in his video:


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    Thriller at 40

    Didn't realize there was that much stuff from the Thriller vaults.

    Need to give Thriller another spin soon. Every song is great.
    Last edited by GulDukat; 11-21-2022 at 11:47 AM.

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