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Thread: Random NIN Thoughts

  1. #14491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    Please, go on! Specifically about the new ground covered. I've never considered it in that way.

    I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but in my brain I file With Teeth away as the most radio-friendly pop album Trent has ever produced and have just sort of let it sit there. I certainly haven't looked to it for... innovation? Or maybe I'm just very tired right now and not thinking with my whole brain? I always thought it was weird that he described With Teeth as "unfixed" and in opposition to all the radio records of the era since I really feel like nothing else he did before or after has the same...sheen of popular presentability?

    Don't get me wrong, I love the album—it's not my favorite thing Nine Inch Nails has done, but it's far from my least favorite. It's got a Morrison Hotel effect on me: only when I look at the songs one at a time do I realize how much I like the world as a whole. Something like Spiral I can look at from a distance and say, "Yeah, absolutely, impressive record." Okay, I clearly am very tired right now. Though that is how I feel, notwithstanding the fact that I'm not at all sure the last paragraph makes sense outside of my head.

    The record is certainly diverse, though, in one particular way for me: "The Hand That Feeds" and "Not So Pretty Now" are maybe my least favorite things Nine Inch Nails has ever done, while "All the Love in the World" is in the God-Tier for me, and "Right Where It Belongs" and "Beside You in Time" are close behind. That being said, there's not a song that feels out of place on the LP—even the B-sides. Incredibly consistent production?

    Anyways, I've just never sat and thought about it from the perspective of new ground covered for Nine Inch Nails and think it would be an interesting argument to hear.
    First off, the subject matter is something that future NIN would heavily focus on, this sort of theme about being stuck in a dream and focus on existentialism is what covers most of With_Teeth and it is pretty much the main focus of The Trilogy, questioning whenever you are in a dream, reality, so on and so forth, a lot of With_Teeth's concepts which were touched upon got expanded in the future mostly in The Trilogy but can also be seen in The Slip, specifically Head Down.

    Beside You In Time (the track) also expanded a deeper focus on Ambient, while this was already done in The Fragile this song feels more expansive, something that hints at Ghosts or future Trent's soundtrack work.

    The aggressive song-writing is also to keep in mind, songs like The Collector/Getting Smaller (which I mentioned earlier), with their more minimal and Punkier vibe hinted at this side of NIN which gets shown to us again and again, which once again got expanded upon in future (Beginning Of The End, 1,000,000, Branches/Bones, Shit Mirror and perhaps even more). Trent wasn't afraid at this point to have minimal songs, he admitted that a lot of his layering was done out of fear of being too raw and naked with his voice, specifically hinting at "Hurt", compare that to something like Right Where It Belongs, which indeed begins with a filter on Trent's voice but then it opens up, Trent's emotional voice is in the front while gentle drone and piano plays in the background, putting all focus on Trent and his lyrics while in the past Trent would cover up his voice in "Hurt" with distortions and all sorts of layers, now think of songs like "Lights In The Sky", "This Isn't The Place", "Find My Way"..more and more, and you will see Trent embracing the vulnerability of his performance and it all goes back to With_Teeth.

    Then you also have the opening "All The Love In The World" which toys with Glitch Pop, little bit hinting at what would eventually become of "How To Destroy Angels"

    Also, while With_Teeth is an accessible album, it is still very much so an Industrial Rock album at its core.

    And a heavy one. I believe that With_Teeth's accessible singles just give people the wrong idea about majority of the contents of the record;

    "You Know What You Are" is in your face Industrial Metal, I don't think anyone can deny this, it's raw and incredibly explosive and noisy.

    "The Collector" is a song that doesn't really focus on any melody and it is in an odd time signature of 3/4, it's also really minimal, there is a little drone in the background, there is a big focus on Trent's raw explosive vocal performance here

    "Love Is Not Enough" comes in with this really heavy guitar solo and filthy bass, once again it's noisy with the guitar piercing through everything.

    Title track "(With Teeth)" is dominated by this Noise Rock guitar with an ugly drone covering the background, the structure of the song is also a little odd, this isn't the first time a NIN song suddenly gets quiet and loud (Mr.Self Destruct), but this is arguably one of the most aggressive dynamics changes ever, it's insane, when the song comes back from its little ballad it's basically a jump-scare, the song forces the listener to turn up the song just to blast their ears off, it's awesome and works.
    "Getting Smaller" is a fast Garage Punk song with incredible guitar work and drums of course.

    "Sunspots" has a heavy focus on filthy bass which hits hard with a dark guitar, it gets brighter/upbeat little bit more with the introduction of the microwave middle-way through, either way, this song still feels rather heavy to me.

    "The Line Begins To Blur" is down-right nasty, an intense wall of noise covering the verses while the chorus is almost heavenly and melodic, there is a big contrast between verses and choruses, this trick of such intense contrast between verses and choruses really got introduced here, where the chorus is some sort of "peaceful" release from the chaos and anxiety before it appears again and re-appears in "Head Down" and "The Lovers"

    What"Love Is Not Enough" comes in with this really heavy guitar solo and filthy bass, once again it's noisy with the guitar piercing through everything.

  2. #14492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    It's probably my favorite song off that album, and to me that song fits right in with the rest of the NIN catalogue. That juxtaposition of heavy noise/ soft and melodic is common throughout. The best example of this is I do not want this. There are others, but work is beating down my door at the moment.
    The difference is that I Do Not Want This constantly kinda builds towards the aggressive chorus, whereas "The Line Begins To Blur" kinda inverts this, where the song rather than becoming heavier and louder gives some breathing space after chaos in the chorus.

  3. #14493
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    "The Collector" is a song that doesn't really focus on any melody and it is in an odd time signature of 3/4, it's also really minimal, there is a little drone in the background, there is a big focus on Trent's raw explosive vocal performance here
    Great post! You articulated a lot of lovely things about With Teeth. "The Collector" has interruptions of 4/4 time, as well (especially during the chorus). Such interruptions in the verse recur in a motif of 13 (you can count it as 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 4/4), which is very similar to the verse meter pattern in "The Becoming" (3/4 + 4/4 + 3/4 + 3/4). Back in the remix.nin.com days, I did a mashup of the two songs that exploited this similarity. Not very danceable, but nevertheless...

    I also think TR's piano playing, deploying simple yet memorable hooks over synthesized textures (which is something that goes back to "Something I Can Never Have") is a very refreshing arrangement technique on With Teeth, with the nakedness of the piano standing out particularly amidst the noisy synth elements.
    Last edited by botley; 07-30-2020 at 09:31 AM.

  4. #14494
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Great post! You articulated a lot of lovely things about With Teeth. "The Collector" has interruptions of 4/4 time, as well (especially during the chorus). Such interruptions in the verse recur in a motif of 13 (you can count it as 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 4/4), which is very similar to the verse meter pattern in "The Becoming" (3/4 + 4/4 + 3/4 + 3/4). Back in the remix.nin.com days, I did a mashup of the two songs that exploited this similarity. Not very danceable, but nevertheless...

    I also think TR's piano playing, deploying simple yet memorable hooks over synthesized textures (which is something that goes back to "Something I Can Never Have") is a very refreshing arrangement technique on With Teeth, with the nakedness of the piano standing out particularly amidst the noisy synth elements.
    I actually really wanted to mention the piano, I think its most entiresting usage is in "You Know What You Are" you have this really agresive, really loud Industrial Metal song and suddenly there is this really sad piano in the angriest part of the song, it adds this level of melancholony and sadness to this otherwise pure assault of a song, it gives it an entirely new feel just from that little piano that appears on there.

    The usage of piano throughout With_Teeth is brilliant, I am also in love with that crazy frantic piano which closes off "The Collector".

    I really think that sometimes With_Teeth is my favorite album from NIN for so many reasons, my favorite NIN album changes all the time but With_Teeth a lot of the times is on the top for me, mostly due to how naked and carthatic yet angry the entire album is, it feels really powerful yet varnurable at the same time. Brutal yet tender as well.

  5. #14495
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    There is no 13 in The Collector. It's 6/4 in verses + ending and 4/4 in choruses

  6. #14496
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    There is no 13 in The Collector. It's 6/4 in verses + ending and 4/4 in choruses
    Oh God, are we going to do all this again? Count it out for yourself, in the verses you'll get two bars of six and then an extra quarter note before the pattern starts again! They even emphasize the extra thirteenth beat with a heavy floor tom-tom accent on the drums.

    Then, just before the chorus, they drop the last extra beat and go into straight 4/4 BUT there is a half-measure (or a bar of 6/4, if you like) when the singing stops.
    Last edited by botley; 07-30-2020 at 03:27 PM.

  7. #14497
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    all jokes aside, my favorite "side" of any NIN release, ever, and still, is Broken. I could throw Fixed in there, too: they're sort of companion pieces. (side note: i had a Fixed shirt before Fixed was released, at least in Dallas. it had the Broken "n" in blue, and said Fixed on the back of the shirt,i think. and i just figured it was some sort of clever companion to the broken promo materials.

    i got into NIN, because of broken, when it came out, when i was fucking TWELVE.
    Then i backtracked to PHM, and then found Fixed.

    NIN, for me, was still UTTERLY FUCKING TERRIFYING at this point.

    i waited with baited breath for the pre TDS maxi singles, or whatever you call them, like the MOTP one.
    TDS finally came out, and, it was similarly disturbing. Is it better (than broken/fixed/phm) musically? is it more complex? is it a more, idk, "focused" artistic statement? i think it is. and, i've finally begrudgingly come to the conclusion that TDS IS the best NIN record, objectively.

    BUT, Broken/Fixed will likely ALWAYS be my favorite NIN thing.
    And, downward spiral continued the vibe.

    yet, i honestly wish to GOD i could build, (well, FINISH building,) a time machine, and temporarily erase most NIN music and press from the minds of some of you youngsters,and take you to a couple shows right after TDS was released: before a fuckton of interviews, before the hype, and before Closer was a radio hit.

    You sort of just had to be there, and i'd imagine that those of you who WERE there know what i mean.
    Last edited by elevenism; 07-30-2020 at 05:56 PM.

  8. #14498
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    If Trent wins an Emmy he will be just a Tony away from the rare EGOT (Emmy Grammy Oscar Tony). To be honest, I don't think I want Trent going the Broadway route. Could be interesting but....

  9. #14499
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    I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.


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    Can’t stop thinking about a Reznor produced Lady Gaga track. I want them to collab sooooo fucking bad ��

  11. #14501
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    Quote Originally Posted by imail724 View Post
    I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.
    AFAIK He did everything sound-related for it, all SFX.

  12. #14502
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    Quote Originally Posted by imail724 View Post
    I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

    Huh, did they low-pitch his voice or something? Too deep for 90s Trent..

  13. #14503
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Huh, did they low-pitch his voice or something? Too deep for 90s Trent..
    I hear his Year Zero voice in it.

  14. #14504
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    all jokes aside, my favorite "side" of any NIN release, ever, and still, is Broken. I could throw Fixed in there, too: they're sort of companion pieces. (side note: i had a Fixed shirt before Fixed was released, at least in Dallas. it had the Broken "n" in blue, and said Fixed on the back of the shirt,i think. and i just figured it was some sort of clever companion to the broken promo materials.

    i got into NIN, because of broken, when it came out, when i was fucking TWELVE.
    Then i backtracked to PHM, and then found Fixed.

    NIN, for me, was still UTTERLY FUCKING TERRIFYING at this point.

    i waited with baited breath for the pre TDS maxi singles, or whatever you call them, like the MOTP one.
    TDS finally came out, and, it was similarly disturbing. Is it better (than broken/fixed/phm) musically? is it more complex? is it a more, idk, "focused" artistic statement? i think it is. and, i've finally begrudgingly come to the conclusion that TDS IS the best NIN record, objectively.

    BUT, Broken/Fixed will likely ALWAYS be my favorite NIN thing.
    And, downward spiral continued the vibe.

    yet, i honestly wish to GOD i could build, (well, FINISH building,) a time machine, and temporarily erase most NIN music and press from the minds of some of you youngsters,and take you to a couple shows right after TDS was released: before a fuckton of interviews, before the hype, and before Closer was a radio hit.

    You sort of just had to be there, and i'd imagine that those of you who WERE there know what i mean.
    That reminds me actually, that NIN came back SUPER HARD in 2016, I remember getting really uite freaked out by Not The Actual Events, everything about it made me unneasy (and I loved every moment of it.);

    The references to Still on the cover art, the rather crazy lyricism, musically it was definitelly the scariest thing NIN has done in a while, it had an incredibly apocalyptic feel and I'd say some of these songs are some of NIN's heaviest, or amongst the heaviest ones. Then the physical component comes with a terrifying warning which covers you in a substance which we had no idea what it was made out of and the component itself are lyrics from the album, anxiously thrown around. I absolutely love NTAE and it marked the point when NIN started freaking me out again, I absolutely LOVE how much anxiety "The Background World" gave me when I heard it for the first time, I love being absolutely spooked by "I'm Not From This World" and then being haunted by the entirety of Locusts.

  15. #14505
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    Quote Originally Posted by imail724 View Post
    I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

    That's not quite all of them; there's 31 total:

    https://mega.nz/folder/ykJxFISB#yxu6WUedy1UKLStU03-m_A

    axhit1
    axhit2
    death1
    death2
    death3
    death4
    death5
    drown1
    drown2
    gasp1
    gasp2
    gib
    h2odeath
    h2ojump
    inh2o
    inlava
    land
    land2
    lburn1
    lburn2
    pain1
    pain2
    pain3
    pain4
    pain5
    pain6
    plyrjmp8
    slimbrn2
    teledth1
    tornoff2
    udeath

  16. #14506
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    Quote Originally Posted by imail724 View Post
    I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

    Curious if the thought crossed their mind to shove any of that or other obscure clips into TGD breakdown or how long it'd take us to figure it out.

  17. #14507
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    I do feel like, before I begin, I should reiterate that With Teeth is actually pretty high on the list for me. I love this record...with the exception of "Hand," though I even appreciate what that was trying to be. Moving on.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    First off, the subject matter is something that future NIN would heavily focus on, this sort of theme about being stuck in a dream and focus on existentialism is what covers most of With_Teeth and it is pretty much the main focus of The Trilogy, questioning whenever you are in a dream, reality, so on and so forth, a lot of With_Teeth's concepts which were touched upon got expanded in the future mostly in The Trilogy but can also be seen in The Slip, specifically Head Down.
    Nine Inch Nails' lyrics have always been somewhat centered on dualities and transitions, but I suppose this is definitely where the Lathe of Heaven-influence really took off, yeah, and it's been a fruitful vein to mine. Undoubtedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Beside You In Time (the track) also expanded a deeper focus on Ambient, while this was already done in The Fragile this song feels more expansive, something that hints at Ghosts or future Trent's soundtrack work.
    I'd disagree on this. Though I fucking love "Beside You in Time," I feel like the song's structure is just a bit of a deviation on a developing Reznor standard—"Eraser," "The Day the World Went Away," and "The Way Out Is Through." I think I'd personally trace the ambient elements of Reznor's work to other sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Trent wasn't afraid at this point to have minimal songs, he admitted that a lot of his layering was done out of fear of being too raw and naked with his voice, specifically hinting at "Hurt", compare that to something like Right Where It Belongs, which indeed begins with a filter on Trent's voice but then it opens up, Trent's emotional voice is in the front while gentle drone and piano plays in the background, putting all focus on Trent and his lyrics while in the past Trent would cover up his voice in "Hurt" with distortions and all sorts of layers, now think of songs like "Lights In The Sky", "This Isn't The Place", "Find My Way"..more and more, and you will see Trent embracing the vulnerability of his performance and it all goes back to With_Teeth.
    That's interesting. I'd never really thought of that. Yeah, "Right Where It Belongs" does sort of transition to more unadorned vocal performances on the slow ballads. Like he was allowing himself to return to the perhaps embarrassing sincerity of "Something I Can Never Have." Without this level of comfort, we never would have gotten "While I'm Still Here," which I'd consider a fucking tragedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Then you also have the opening "All The Love In The World" which toys with Glitch Pop, little bit hinting at what would eventually become of "How To Destroy Angels"
    That's an interesting take. I don't know if I 100% agree. I feel like Year Zero is the more direct ancestor. But I'd probably be foolish to think "Love" didn't influence that record, I just hadn't thought of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    "The Collector" is a song that doesn't really focus on any melody and it is in an odd time signature of 3/4, it's also really minimal, there is a little drone in the background, there is a big focus on Trent's raw explosive vocal performance here
    See, I see this less as a development and more as a simplification of past tendencies. Irregular time signatures and less-than-obvious melodies typified a lot of '90s Nails. This just strips away a bunch of the layers. I've never not liked this song, but I've become more fond of it as the years have gone on.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Also, while With_Teeth is an accessible album, it is still very much so an Industrial Rock album at its core. And a heavy one. I believe that With_Teeth's accessible singles just give people the wrong idea about majority of the contents of the record
    I don't feel like it's at all industrial. To a large extent, I don't feel like The Fragile is even a particularly industrial record. It's not a bad thing, per se, that he moved out of the sound. Better than standing still. But, with a few exceptions, I still feel like the sharper edges are filed off of the songs on With Teeth. "You Know What You Are" is heavy, sure, but feels more polished and reined in than something that bombastic would have been in the past—"Gave Up" and "March of the Pigs" come to mind. But I think in debating it, I sort of agree with the initial point you made—With Teeth is a blueprint for later works. The tendency to sand off rawer edges carries through (Hesitation Marks, a lot of Year Zero). The EP trilogy is the first time after The Fragile where I feel like things are, by and large, deliberately unpolished and "unfixed" in the way of the 1990s again.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    "Love Is Not Enough" comes in with this really heavy guitar solo and filthy bass, once again it's noisy with the guitar piercing through everything.
    Great song, but it's pretty straightforward radio rock. That's really not an indictment, but I stand by my original assessment of the track as Trent schooling the kids on Modern Rock Radio by working, more or less, in their idiom. Which is what I can say for a lot of the tracks on the album—"Getting Smaller," "Sunspots." But it doesn't really seem to carry through to much to the rest of the catalogue. "The Beginning of the End"? Maybe "1,000,000," though that sounds more distinctly Nails.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    "The Line Begins To Blur" is down-right nasty, an intense wall of noise covering the verses while the chorus is almost heavenly and melodic, there is a big contrast between verses and choruses, this trick of such intense contrast between verses and choruses really got introduced here, where the chorus is some sort of "peaceful" release from the chaos and anxiety before it appears again and re-appears in "Head Down" and "The Lovers"
    This was a very cool inversion of the established Nine Inch Nails loud-quiet-loud formula and it's certainly the best early example of it. It's always struck me as the most "unfixed" track on the record and I love it, but I'd love it 1000 times more if the studio take had the live chorus—"As far as I have gone to know what side I'm on." The horrible grammar of the studio take is one poetic concession I've never been able to give him. Sucks. But it's my field and it's hard for me to ignore.

    If there were a studio take of the track with that chorus, it would be in my top tier of Nine Inch Nails songs. In fact, if I had disposable income, I'd pay someone to create this for me—that's how much I want it.
    Last edited by Sesquipedalism; 08-01-2020 at 04:41 AM. Reason: Disclaimer.

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    In my mind WT carries a heavy Songs For The Deaf influence for employing Grohl on most of the songs. I wish he'd be featured on more songs though, so that the album would feel even more as one, sonically speaking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I'd love it 1000 times more if the studio take had the live chorus—"As far as I have gone to know what side I'm on." The horrible grammar of the studio take is one poetic concession I've never been able to give him. Sucks. But it's my field and it's hard for me to ignore.

    If there were a studio take of the track with that chorus, it would be in my top tier of Nine Inch Nails songs. In fact, if I had disposable income, I'd pay someone to create this for me—that's how much I want it.
    TLBtB doesn't have a grammar problem as I read it. Not nearly as bad as "We're in This Together" does! The phrase "as far as I have gone" could either act as conjoined to the next one, or not, depending if the word "to" is added or not. This gives the line two subtly different meanings:

    1. As far as I have gone, I knew what side I'm on. "No matter what has happened up to this point, I knew right from wrong."

    2. As far as I have gone to know what side I'm on. "I had to go all this way to figure out what's right and wrong."
    Last edited by botley; 08-01-2020 at 07:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    TLBtB doesn't have a grammar problem as far as I'm concerned. Not nearly as bad as "We're in This Together" does! The phrase "as far as I have gone" could either act as conjoined to the next one, or not, depending if the word "to" is added or not. This gives the line two subtly different meanings:

    1. As far as I have gone, I knew what side I'm on. "No matter what has happened up to this point, I knew right from wrong."

    2. As far as I have gone to know what side I'm on. "I had to go all this way to figure out what's right and wrong."
    As for "We're in This Together," I find "down the path we have chose" to be a totally justifiable poetic choice, an excellent one, in fact, if one views the song record as I do—as a dialogue not between several different people, but between two (or three) aspects of a single self. I find the LP works incredibly well when the addressee of "No, You Don't" is the narrator's public face, for example, and the "she" in "The Fragile" is the narrator's humanity. Bear with me for a second; I've mulled this one before.

    The Fragile was built on a foundation of flawed sounds and things—instruments, ideas, relationships, identities—that are barely holding together and, perhaps by the end, falling apart. That much-maligned "Together" lyric, to me, is a deliberate emphasis of this fact. The lyric is in an incompletely conjugated Present Perfect tense which, I think, serves the function of A) making things feel slightly destabilized and B) maybe indicating that Present Perfect tense isn't entirely appropriate—Present Perfect indicates an action that exists currently in a state of completion and, as later songs indicate ("The New Flesh," for instance), the path (of fate) maybe wasn't quite as cemented as it once seemed.

    And, as far as I know, "We're in This Together" is performed live with its original lyrics.

    Where "The Line Begins to Blur" is concerned, it's not "as far as I have gone" that bothers me at all, it's the next part. "I knew what side I'm on" feels like it switches tense in the middle of the sentence. You'd have to be doing something pretty remarkable for me to let that stand. "I knew what side I am on" doesn't do shit for me in the context of the song. And the fact that he has, to my knowledge, always sung it differently live, doesn't make me want to go out of my way to work on an interpretation that makes it read more satisfyingly to me. Though, believe me, I've pondered that one, too. One day, I'll learn how to build that remix myself. Right after I can finally afford the Definitive Edition of the record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    In my mind WT carries a heavy Songs For The Deaf influence for employing Grohl on most of the songs. I wish he'd be featured on more songs though, so that the album would feel even more as one, sonically speaking.
    It's a combo of Queens For The Stone Age and Killing Joke, Trent literally spoke about Killing Joke's influence on The Collector, talking about wanting to create the primal soudn which Killing Joke have for that song and perhaps some of the others too.

    Dave Grohl drummed on their second debut too, funilly enough, so that is probably the record to look afte when we talk about Killing Joke influences.

  22. #14512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    Where "The Line Begins to Blur" is concerned, it's not "as far as I have gone" that bothers me at all, it's the next part. "I knew what side I'm on" feels like it switches tense in the middle of the sentence.
    It feels that way, but syntactically, it doesn't do that. "I knew" is past tense, and "what side I'm on" can be ambiguous without being present tense.

    If I add more words and keep the same meaning maybe it makes more sense:

    I knew what I do profess to be true.
    Last edited by botley; 08-01-2020 at 08:34 AM.

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    I actually really think that with The Line Begins To Blur it's;
    Studo >Live.

    The "I DON'T KNOW!" part (second verse) is far more effective in studio than in the Beside You In Time version, not a fan of the vocals that are going on in that part in the Live version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I don't feel like it's at all industrial. To a large extent, I don't feel like The Fragile is even a particularly industrial record. It's not a bad thing, per se, that he moved out of the sound. Better than standing still. But, with a few exceptions, I still feel like the sharper edges are filed off of the songs on With Teeth. "You Know What You Are" is heavy, sure, but feels more polished and reined in than something that bombastic would have been in the past—"Gave Up" and "March of the Pigs" come to mind.
    To be frank, I think its heaviness is more akin to something off The Fragile, it gives me some "No, You Don't vibes or so, I think in the terms of polish it is samiliar to that.

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    The quake ranger "telefragged" noise always sounds like a person suffering from projectile vomiting. I wonder if Trent actually went that far and puked to record it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    It feels that way, but syntactically, it doesn't do that. "I knew" is past tense, and "what side I'm on" can be ambiguous without being present tense.

    If I add more words and keep the same meaning maybe it makes more sense:

    I knew what I do profess to be true.
    Nope. Sorry, but no. I'll fight you on that. "what side I am on" is a present tense statement. And as paired clauses, sorry, no. I won't give it to you. Having the first part of that sentence be past tense with its end in the present is a logical impossibility without prognosticative powers.

    As for your example, if you kept extending your sentence with other words to "I knew then what I do now profess to be true," then I'd give that one to you. But as it is, if I were reading that less awkward example in a document I was editing, I'd ask for it to be changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    I actually really think that with The Line Begins To Blur it's;
    Studo >Live.

    The "I DON'T KNOW!" part (second verse) is far more effective in studio than in the Beside You In Time version, not a fan of the vocals that are going on in that part in the Live version.
    I totally agree. Totally. I'm a much bigger fan of studio takes, though, so it's not surprising. I just want the live lyric edited in.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    To be frank, I think its heaviness is more akin to something off The Fragile, it gives me some "No, You Don't vibes or so, I think in the terms of polish it is samiliar to that.
    Yeah, I agree, but I think "No, You Don't" is rawer and more complex than the hard stuff off of With Teeth. But I'd certainly say that "No, You Don't" is a closer sonic ancestor than any of the more industrial stuff in the catalogue.
    Last edited by Sesquipedalism; 08-01-2020 at 03:47 PM. Reason: System glitch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    That reminds me actually, that NIN came back SUPER HARD in 2016, I remember getting really uite freaked out by Not The Actual Events, everything about it made me unneasy (and I loved every moment of it.);

    The references to Still on the cover art, the rather crazy lyricism, musically it was definitelly the scariest thing NIN has done in a while, it had an incredibly apocalyptic feel and I'd say some of these songs are some of NIN's heaviest, or amongst the heaviest ones. Then the physical component comes with a terrifying warning which covers you in a substance which we had no idea what it was made out of and the component itself are lyrics from the album, anxiously thrown around. I absolutely love NTAE and it marked the point when NIN started freaking me out again, I absolutely LOVE how much anxiety "The Background World" gave me when I heard it for the first time, I love being absolutely spooked by "I'm Not From This World" and then being haunted by the entirety of Locusts.
    The vibe around NTAE was incredible. It really did feel haunted - the minimal website relaunch, the Still artwork, the absolutely horrifying opening to the album that was so different from Hesitation Marks. As frustrating as it was to have to wait the entire year for NIN to come back, when they did, they came back HARD. If we consider the trilogy as one continuous "album cycle," I think this was by far my favorite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    That reminds me actually, that NIN came back SUPER HARD in 2016, I remember getting really uite freaked out by Not The Actual Events, everything about it made me unneasy (and I loved every moment of it.);

    The references to Still on the cover art, the rather crazy lyricism, musically it was definitelly the scariest thing NIN has done in a while, it had an incredibly apocalyptic feel and I'd say some of these songs are some of NIN's heaviest, or amongst the heaviest ones. Then the physical component comes with a terrifying warning which covers you in a substance which we had no idea what it was made out of and the component itself are lyrics from the album, anxiously thrown around. I absolutely love NTAE and it marked the point when NIN started freaking me out again, I absolutely LOVE how much anxiety "The Background World" gave me when I heard it for the first time, I love being absolutely spooked by "I'm Not From This World" and then being haunted by the entirety of Locusts.
    although i dug the shit out of every NIN release (aside from the ghosts things, which i APPRECIATE from an artistic standpoint, but don't LISTEN to very often,)
    i'm 100% with you on this. NTAE is similar to broken, in a way, ESPECIALLY the first track. it's one of my favorite NIN tracks, and i've been a fan for 28 years.

    i loooooooove WT and i looooooove YZ, etc, but it's just a different vibe. and i'm not saying either sound/vibe is objectively better than the other.
    it's just that the NIN i first discovered was like, idk, an awful car crash-the sort of thing that terrified me, but i couldn't look away.
    Add Marilyn Manson as openers at my first or second NIN show, when i didn't know who MM was, when i was a freshman or sophomore in HS, and good god, it was unreal.

    Again, i know a lot of you guys were there for it. for the record, i'm absolutely not talking down to the folks who missed it. Hell, i'm a big Rush fan, and i'd be utterly infuriated if people looked down for missing the 2112 tour because i wasn't alive yet.
    But good GOD, nin was scary early on. Add in the broken movie, which was something we passed around on VHS back then, and, yeah. Jesus. I fucking loved it.

    I ALSO love HM, too, though, and i'd honestly like to hear more of THAT style.
    I'm amazed that this "little old band" has covered so much territory.
    I want them to make hip hop beats for one of these young rappers next. :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    As for "We're in This Together," I find "down the path we have chose"
    all he had to do was change it to "down the path that we chose" or "which we chose" and it would have been fine, without losing any of its poetic sensibility

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