piggy by nine inch nails is the greatest jazz song ever written
piggy by nine inch nails is the greatest jazz song ever written
Whatever nerd.
Eraser "remastered" high was giving me seizures. I'm convinced parts of this "remastered" the downward spiral are alternate takes.
Me too, but in another context.
We know that there's a lot going on between Left and Right, however... what if 12 tracks that are on 1st disk were released on their own?
How would we treat it today?
halo fourteen: The Fragile (1999): CD we know as Left but the rest all the same - cover, title, only a thinner booklet.
(same singles may have remained but no cross-reference to 2nd CD: TDTWWA+TDTWWA (quiet) and WITT+TPD)
halo sixteen: Into the void (minus WITT and TPD plus a remix)
halo severteen: The Big Comedown (?) (2000 or 2001): what we now know as Right CD (incl. TMH) under different cover
halo eighteen: Starfuckers, Inc. (video version + a remix)
halo nineteen: TFA (2001 or 2002, EP because many remixes went to previously dropped singles)
halo twenty: Live/Still
...
It's not hard to guess that With Teeth would probably be considered a bigger success compared to each of those hypothetical half-double albums
What frame of mind was trent in when he wrote "big man with a gun?"
it's the only nin song that kind of bothers me.
I've heard it said that it was supposed to be a "parody of hip hop" but i don't see that.
Then there's the whole "it's a story about a character" thing, but i've never bought that either. On TDS and TF, trent is obviously the "character."
I think it's a consequence of hanging out with Manson
If Trent is the character of TDS, then he's a rapist and dead.
He obviously heavily inspired the album from himself, but it's still a story, especially with songs like Hurt, Big Man With A Gun and The Downward Spiral, which tell events which haven't happened to Trent. I think Big Man was his insertion of story and also a very creepy catharsis towards someone or some thing. I also dislike it, probably for the same reasons, and I never once bought the parody of hip hop bullshit, especially considering the friends he keeps.
I like it, in the context of TDS it's the inevitable explosion of lust, violence and hatred the character has been nursing during the whole first segment, all expressed at once.
It could probably have been expressed more cleverly or subtly, but as elaborate as it is TDS isn't a "clever" record, nor a subtle one. It's extremely good at bludgeoning and does it expertly, but it's still expressing itself by giving heads, getting butts, and various other headbuttings.
Plus, the vulgarity and immorality of BMWAG is kind of the whole point, in my opinion...
@elevenism : You never write in a vacuum, and in the case of Reznor we all know most of his material is inspired by himself, but I think that TDS was written by fishing in his own dark parts. Think of the shit that pops in your mind sometimes, random spontaneous bouts of ephemeral yet boiling hatred, the fucked up perverted shit that bubbles up to your conscious mind in the middle of the day.
"I wonder what would happen if I pushed that kid in front of the bus. What if I just punched your face off you fucking hag ? How would Sheila react if I fucked her mother ?"
I think Big Man... is just that, a pure flow of lust and fury released all at once. It's not Reznor any more than those nasty thoughts are you. But they're there, and in the context of TDS they've been brewing for eight tracks before they just explode in a messy rage.
Last edited by Khrz; 09-09-2015 at 12:31 PM.
Aside from the other points that were already mentioned, I have also wondered if it was also set up to look like an intentional reference or response to Me And A Gun by Tori Amos on her album Little Earthquakes. What you've said reminded me of their conspiracy, as it was called. I'm not sure if it's still going on, but it seemed to be very much alive from the early 1990s to the mid 2000s.
@Charmingly Miserable @RhettButler - I'd definitely be interested in what either of you might have to say about it as well.
On the other hand, I could also still see that as a satirical parody of hip hop, as well as a parody of people acting like tough guy rappers and gangsters, but that's just me. I'd even go out on a limb and venture to say that if it was intended to be a parody of such on any kind of level, it's probably somewhat akin to say, 50 Cent's Wanksta in some ways. Aside from that, I don't know what else to say, because I still found what Trent said about Big Man With A Gun to be very believable.
I could actually see that in some ways, even though that sort of thing was already visually accomplished on the Broken movie. I also thought that Big Man With A Gun could've also inspired the way the final version of Get Your Gunn (At least in a minor way.) came to be, even though most of the inspiration from The Downward Spiral ended up on Smells Like Children and Antichrist Superstar. But yes, in that era, I wouldn't put it past Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson influencing and inspiring each other with ideas being bounced around from both camps as a result of their collaboration and friendship.
I just loved the way you put that, as this is exactly what I had in mind, not only with Big Man With A Gun, but the entire Broken movie as well. Depending on who you are, if your brain has ever functioned like that whenever you're very angry, it's actually very relatable and understandable. You've also summed it up so much better than I ever could have, which is great, because I had a very hard time trying to describe the Broken movie in that kind of way.
And not to mention, I can also still see how those types of songs also set the perfect mood for destroying instruments and equipment on stage with or without them messing up. It's also still one of my favorite reasons for watching Closure.
I also saw Big Man With A Gun as the final explosion before slowing down for A Warm Place and then facing further demise and lows afterwards. I have also read descriptions of The Downward Spiral having some of the songs are of the character trying to get higher and higher in songs like Closer and Ruiner only to go lower and lower in songs like A Warm Place and Eraser as the character gets more vulnerable and suicidal after those bursts of aggression and perceived invincibility and power, with Hurt being the bottom the downward spiral as well as the final blow.
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 09-09-2015 at 03:48 PM.
Reznor undeniably intended to piss lots of people off (not to mention deliberately antagonize the hypocritical American moralist Christian groups, who would actually protest outside of NIN concerts) by including that song on the album and performing it live. Hard rock music was still the devil incarnate circa 1993-94, and until Manson was blamed for supposedly inciting the Columbine massacre, NIN was taking a lot of that heat in the mass media for apparently corrupting and warping the minds of children. Though it serves its purpose in painting that internal narrative of The Downward Spiral, in a broader context that song was also fuck-you to corporate media sanitization under the banner of moral authoritarianism. This is something Reznor flirted with on each NIN album, up until leaving the corporate structure of Interscope/Vivendi/Universal etc. in 2007, by which time the media landscape had begun to fragment. But it was a different world back when both major American political parties had active proponents advocating for the censorship of popular music.
Last edited by botley; 09-09-2015 at 01:48 PM.
Tim Cook has One Republic as one of his favourite bands, what? Is Trent happy plugging a product that is a promotional tool for One Republic???
Are you for real ?
No, sorry, the elaborate version of what I meant would be "do you really care ? Why do you care ? Who cares ?"
Reznor promoted and participated in a product meant to distribute music. As much music as possible. From the largest range of bands as possible, to the maximum amount of consumers possible.
The CEO of the company that released this product loves a band you hate.
Honestly, who gives a fuck ? Why in high heavens should Reznor give a fuck ? Why do you ? Why should we ?
It's alright, I'm not that bothered. I'm actually on the free trial although I've turned off auto renewal, streaming music isn't really a priority in our house at the moment.
Do you really believe they're one of tim cooks favourite bands though? He's just a middle aged man sucking up to what he thinks young people like
Last edited by WorzelG; 09-09-2015 at 02:48 PM.
If you don't believe Big Man With A Gun is a parody of gangsta rap, you haven't listened to gangsta rap. That shit was all about bragging how tough you were and talking shit about whoever your rival of the month was, including threats of forced dick sucking and murder.
I wonder if the fragile was meant to be 3 CDs titled The Fragile, The Frail, and The Wretched.
Possibly ? Maybe the guy just has very bland taste in music, likes to think he's keeping up, and subsequently likes very bland current bands ? Or indeed, he hilariously fails at being hip with the times and down with them youngsters ? Worst case scenario he's thinking this is a shrewd PR move and nobody will see through this clever charade ?
I still got more interested in my own voice here than in that whole situation. I still got more interested in why that would be interesting.
I'm sorry if it's dickish of me, I really am ! I'm just puzzled.
Who here thinks The Big Come Down Instrumentals guitar outro is waaay better than the studio/released version?!
I'd be interested to see (if he does ever release the 5.1 mix) if the guitar outro is present in one of the surround speakers,
like a lot of the unfound sounds in the TDS 5.1 mix, ahhh clarity!
I hope there is a deluxe edition of the Greatest Hits that comes with a second disc of all the hits but remade, either for a more modern take or even broken down Still versions.
I was recently wondering what happened to the studio recordings that Reznor apparently made of those Bridge School Benefit show arrangements (with the string ensemble and a grand piano). I think he said on a Spiral chat or something that he was recording them, anyway — Martin St. Pierre, who did the arrangements and played violin at the shows, seems to have confirmed this. Not saying that a retrospective anthology is what those recordings are being held back for, but it would make some sense to release them that way. That shit is too good to remain a little-heard audience bootleg and a couple of soundboard tracks on some obscure iTunes download.
Last edited by botley; 09-11-2015 at 10:01 AM.
The Greatest Hits has to happen as far as I understand, unless the record company changed their mind. Wonder if there is a deadline in the contract.
Well, as far as I'm concerned I would have been Running to get it, Find My Way to the last surviving record store, only to find out I already owned Everything on it except for the shoved In Two unreleased tracks, which I don't even really like.
All I'm saying is, I'm pretty happy with the way things panned out.
dude...i listen to more hip hop than rock, and i'm 35. So i was at the prime age for snoop and dre, scarface, bone, tupac, the click, ugk etc etc etc
It's not that i don't know about gangsta rap, it's that i don't believe that BMWAG was a parody of it.
Why would you put a "parody" song at a fairly crucial turning point of a semi-autobiographical concept album?
I think the "parody of gangsta rap" explanation was just a way of dodging an actual explanation of the raw violence of the song.
but then again, it took @Khrz ...to make me rea-lize....a better understanding of the song
so i could be wrong
Last edited by elevenism; 09-11-2015 at 06:47 PM.