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Thread: Random NIN Thoughts

  1. #14521
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    The Trilogy as a whole has grown on me over the years. I wasn't completely sold on all of NTAE when I first heard it, but the more I listen to it, the more I love it. Add Violence was an instant winner for me, but that's because I'm still a sucker for the hard, fast aggressive NIN. Bad Witch is still my least favorite, but I do like it for the weirdness and the risks that he takes on the record. It shows that the NIN story isn't over and it's a peak at where he could take it next, which makes me so excited for the next album, EP, whatever the hell it is. I will say, all three releases blew me away with the vocals. Some of them were so damn sinister they gave me chills! And of course Trent singing on God Breakdown the Door. Completely unexpected, but I think it works. I just like that he keeps finding ways to actually make new, exciting, and provocative music rather than gives us 5 more versions of TDS.

  2. #14522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I got one thing besides colossal debt for certain: an uncompromising hatred of the idea of genres. Genres are boxes created by humans for the convenience of humans.
    Yeah, this. I like genre's as a concept in the broadest possible brushstrokes but once you start trying to define the details, one can get lost in the minutia of it all (and then you have 100s of sub-genres). What I dislike the most is those who self-label themselves/their music and they obviously are neglecting crucial aspects of that label... which is why i tend to let others do the labelling and if whatever *I'm* doing doesn't fit that label, it's not my concern. I wasn't trying to meet others expectations/definitions.

  3. #14523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    A big problem, though, is that most people are so into the idea of classification that—especially in our system—artists have to lean into that sort of self-labelling if they want to reach larger audiences. Which is fine...ish....sometimes, except for all the times it's actually a disservice. I spoke with a literary agent one time who pressed me to the point of incomprehensibility to tag my fiction with genre descriptors. I had to be a good salesperson. And she had a very annoying spreadsheet that amounted, essentially, to stickers for me to pick and slap on myself.
    "Where shall we put William Gibson today? Sci-Fi, Fiction Bestsellers (New York Times) or Canadian..."

  4. #14524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I would absolutely argue that it’s served Nine Inch Nails poorly.
    In my digital library, they are listed as "Electronic".

  5. #14525
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    Genre labels are helpful insofar as they mark certain ways in which pieces of music resemble one another. They can tell us that a given piece of music resembles some other pieces of music in certain relevant respect. Taken at this level, as just describing certain family resemblances, they're fairly harmless, and sometimes be helpful. They're problematic though when they're taken to mark fundamental categories, or natural kinds, with certain necessary and sufficient conditions for inclusion and exclusion. So understood, genres don't intersect; they can subdivide, but they don't overlap. And so for any piece of music the question arises as to which one of these categories it belongs to, and disagreements pointlessly ensue. If we just think of genres as labels for family resemblances, these disagreements (at least) shouldn't get started, since it's perfectly possible for a single piece of music to resemble very different pieces of music in very different respects. I think Nine Inch Nails is a good example of this, which is why it's always been so difficult to box it into a particular genre.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
    In my digital library, they are listed as "Electronic".
    Ditto!

  6. #14526
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    I still find the genre discussion interesting, I do not get hanged up over it but we have them for a reason, the more complicated it is to pin point a genre on a record the more interesting it is to me and I find the discussion of that interesting. I know some people get really hostile about it like "AAAA how dare you call NIN any type of Industrial?!" but I think my question was fairly innocent and just curious, I do not intend to gate keep or anything lke that, we have genres for a reason and they help music discussion quite a bit, I don't genres did NIN wrong, it's just people who do not know how to properly use them.
    Last edited by HWB; 08-18-2020 at 09:12 AM.

  7. #14527
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    Discussing genres and recongizing them can help you notice where the artist took influences form and Trent totally took influences from specific bands and genres throughout the years. It helps you notice how music has developed, how Blues Rock would give-away to Metal, how Swan's sound would went to influence Godflesh which gave away to Industrial Metal, I think learning all of that is amazing, I do not know why some people get so angry/hostile over a genre discussion when it is a calm and collected one rather the one which gate-keeps.

    With Nine Inch Nails, I do not think it is that complicated, yes, Trent does have his own unqiue sound which he build upon over the years but the influences are obvious where they came from I would say they fit mostly Industrial Rock with various of sub-genres being attached depending on what record you are listening to with focus being also to another genre alongside Industrial Rock, but Industrial Rock is almost always present. There are expections, those being the latest Ghost records and Hesitation Marks which still has its own Industrial Rock moments in various of songs (Came Back Haunted) but at its core it is far more focused on Electronics, percussion/drum machines, And Still, of course.


    As someone who makes musc, attempting to label your own work with genres is unbelivably hard and you almost have to do it, it'S no easy feat for sure, it is interesting to hear what different people hear depending on what genre they think the music is.
    Last edited by HWB; 08-18-2020 at 09:21 AM.

  8. #14528
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    If I'm ever in a position where I have to pin nin down to a genre I invariably say 'industrial pop'. That's not meant to be at all disparaging (Trent has frequently used the term 'pop' to describe his music). It certainly has it's more rockish moments, but still I find 'pop' better as a catchall.

  9. #14529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    If I'm ever in a position where I have to pin nin down to a genre I invariably say 'industrial pop'. That's not meant to be at all disparaging (Trent has frequently used the term 'pop' to describe his music). It certainly has it's more rockish moments, but still I find 'pop' better as a catchall.
    Mmmmh.
    For the most part, Industrial Rock fits perfectly for me for a lot of records at least. At least for me, I will admit that even when Trent writes more abbrasively his songs tend to have a lot of hooks, but I am still not sure if I could call majority of his works Poppish even if it is full of hooks. It is certainly not on the same level as Ministry or Skinny Puppy, obviously.

    A lot of Industrial Rock can be very accessible already and NIN's focus on Rock is quite major for the most part when you look through their discography.

    But!

    I will admit that there are specific works in NIN which are far more leaning into Pop territory than others and do not put big emphasis on Rock instrumentals...specifically Pretty Hate Machine and Hesitation Marks.

    I guess this may sound dumb but I was considering that NIN can be Synth-Poppy when this happens? Like Pretty Hate Machine and Hesitation Marks..I was considering those were partly Synthpop but I can't say that with much of confidence. I am conflicted with Hesitation Marks in particular, if it's SynthPop or EBM

    Industrial Pop sounds like an interesting term, but, it's not quite established and has never really been used by anybody so I do not know what it would consist of and how you would seperate Industrial Rock from Industrial Pop.

    Actually!

    Maybe EBM is "Industrial Pop"? One of its alternative names is "Industrial Dance" So maybe that could fit this side of NIN?

  10. #14530
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    Honestly, aside from Broken and The Downward Spiral, I wouldn't really call Nine Inch Nails industrial. After The Downward Spiral era, Trent made an effort to distance himself from that label. I certainly wouldn't call anything after that album industrial, although there are industrial tinges that are present on some tracks that followed it.

  11. #14531
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    Tbh NIN almost were never full-blown "Industrial" I think the only full-blown Industrial thing NIN did back then was probably Quake Soundtrack, but almost always were Industrial Rock, even "With_Teeth" has a lot of moments which fit the Industrial Rock imho and that is probably the closets he has come to Alt.Rock in his career.
    Last edited by HWB; 08-18-2020 at 01:16 PM.

  12. #14532
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    I never really think of NIN in a genre. If I want to listen to NIN, it's a certain album or (the horror!) a mix I've made. But most of the music I listen to in that fashion. I'm in the mood for the artist, not the genre.
    Maybe I'll go from Verve's Stormcloud in Heave to DM's Song of Faith and Devotion...there's blends or "genres" if you must. Asobi Seksu and Slowdive blend well.

    But rarely do I mix my listening of NIN. From the harder to the softer...I don't see the point.

  13. #14533
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    Regarding the discussion of NINs lyrics from a few days ago: Yesterday there was an article on The Quietus (founded by the guy who wrote TDS DLX liner notes) by a singer about Cormac McCarthy. In it he posed the question of how to write lyrics knowing he won't ever be able to reach the levels of acclaimed authors such as McCarthy. Here are some quotes:

    So-called “creatives” waste giant swathes of our lives trying to find new ways to articulate universal experiences. As soldiers in the war of expression we come armed to the teeth with hubris. Our feelings run so much deeper than those of civilians who rely on our work to escape from or make sense of their excruciatingly basic lives. We are artists. Art is sacred. Bow the fuck down.

    Of course, this sentiment is by and large bullshit. What I am trying to say through a metric ton of overwrought hyperbole is: We sure think we’re special. There are exceptions, but generally even the humblest among us have a bug up their ass about their work carrying a degree of importance.

    Like so many boring middle-aged men, I am constantly trying to rip off Mr. McCarthy in my own half-cocked way. I write songs about isolation and alienation, loneliness and regret. My work is a banal prayer for redemption, peppered with moments of hope among ubiquitous violence. There is little to nothing original about what I write, and I am at peace with that. I write about subjects that I identify with, in a manner that makes sense to me. I write for spiritual and psychological release. I write because, although conceptually unoriginal, the thing that I want to create doesn’t quite exist yet.

    Now, what the fuck does any of this have to do with Cormac McCarthy?

    Everything he does has been done before, he just does it better than most. I try to keep this example in mind every time I start writing weird for the sake of writing weird. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel when your goal is to make something relatable. Now, I’ll never be one iota as good as Cormac McCarthy at anything at all but if he’s content to walk in the shadow of giants maybe I should worry less about being original and more about not falling on my fucking face while trying to structure a sentence.
    https://thequietus.com/articles/2877...i-have-learned

  14. #14534
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    Today is the 11 year anniversary of the Webster Hall TDS show. Going to watch the video later today. This still remains my #1 all time show of any band. Such a great memory.

  15. #14535
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    I love that the industrial argument rages on.

  16. #14536
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    Quote Originally Posted by tap3worm View Post
    I love that the industrial argument rages on.
    Reminds me of this exchange on RateYourMusic's With_Teeth's genre voting comment section.



    Love it.



    Last edited by HWB; 08-24-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  17. #14537
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    Does this remind you of anything?



    (Sorry for the shitty song)

  18. #14538
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    I woke up today to find myself finding The Slip a 10/10
    Last edited by HWB; 08-26-2020 at 06:02 AM.

  19. #14539
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    Does this remind you of anything?



    (Sorry for the shitty song)
    [insert terrible Russian reversal joke here]

  20. #14540
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    Sounds like the beginning of an Even Deeper parody.
    Wasn't intending it to but I edited it to be even more like Even Deeper

  21. #14541
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    Does this remind you of anything?



    (Sorry for the shitty song)
    I listened to damn near the entire track before I realized it was in reference to the video.

  22. #14542
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    Could be seen as an ode to the original, or a straight copy. now we need another copy to get a copy of a copy.

  23. #14543
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    Given the sheer quantity of interviews for Watchmen and knowing Mank is Oscar bait and Pixar films tend to be Oscar nominated, we’ll probably get no press for new NIN as theyll be so burnt out on interviews!

  24. #14544
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    Given the sheer quantity of interviews for Watchmen and knowing Mank is Oscar bait and Pixar films tend to be Oscar nominated, we’ll probably get no press for new NIN as theyll be so burnt out on interviews!
    You're most likely correct. Their schedules are sure to be flooded.

    We already got new NIN this year, so that alongside all these new soundtracks, plus the fact that they can't tour a new album right now due to CV19 means that we probably won't hear anything else NIN-related until 2021.

    Honestly, I'm so burnt out on soundtrack stuff that it feels like we haven't had a NIN release since Bad Witch three years ago. Sorry to be controversial; I'm just impatient to hear TR's voice again.

  25. #14545
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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    You're most likely correct. Their schedules are sure to be flooded.

    We already got new NIN this year, so that alongside all these new soundtracks, plus the fact that they can't tour a new album right now due to CV19 means that we probably won't hear anything else NIN-related until 2021.

    Honestly, I'm so burnt out on soundtrack stuff that it feels like we haven't had a NIN release since Bad Witch three years ago. Sorry to be controversial; I'm just impatient to hear TR's voice again.
    What? The 2 seconds of Trent's discernible voice at the end of Babysitter didn't do it for you?

  26. #14546
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    Bad Witch (Trilogy iin general) has some of the best vocals Trent has gave us in a while, Shit Mirror's aggressive vocals are so good!

  27. #14547
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Bad Witch (Trilogy iin general) has some of the best vocals Trent has gave us in a while, Shit Mirror's aggressive vocals are so good!
    100% agreed. and i actually love that in the live version, robin got to do those vocals, because his voice is perfect for them.

    i still think that "this isn't the place" is one of trent's best vocal performances ever, and that song is easily in my top 5 NIN songs of all time.

  28. #14548
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    i still think that "this isn't the place" is one of trent's best vocal performances ever, and that song is easily in my top 5 NIN songs of all time.
    I swear to God, Trent sounds like he is sobbing through that song when his vocals enter, it may be one of the more depressing NIN songs of all time after Trent indeed confirmed it is about Bowie, utterly heart-breaking.

  29. #14549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    Do you have a source handy for this? I'd never heard that.

    Given the presumed themes of the Trilogy at the point this record was released, I assumed it was a fleshed out version of "My Dead Friend" from the With Teeth sessions. Something that might have come earlier on the record and acted as a paired bookend with "Beside You in Time." Which is probably where it'll remain for me, thanks to three years of thinking about this every time it played. But hearing the actual story would be cool, too.
    After This Isn't The Place was been played at Phoenix Broken Show Trent said this;

    “That was written about a friend of mine, & we actually worked on this next song a few years back”.

    And then he jumped into "I'm Afraid Of Americans".

  30. #14550
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    Speaking of the trilogy, this album artwork always strikes me as very similar to the frontcover of Bad Witch. The fact it's also a 6 song mini-LP is funny, too.


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