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Faceplams: All of his albums are arguably his best, that's how arguing works.Originally Posted by billpulsipher
Josh Wink was on HLAH
All of his albums are arguably his best, that's how arguing works.
Active Member
I think Billy Boy and that Omega person should duke it out to see who can ignore basic facts the best. At some point they would start arguing about their own existence and then fade into nothing.
Last edited by BRoswell; 01-24-2015 at 10:30 PM.
Captain Rustleboots
Playing the devils advocate here...but I think it's a safe bet that The Downward Spiral/The Fragile will always be the frontrunners to be his "Sgt. Pepper" to at least 75% of his fans. And this is coming from someone who's favorite album is with teeth, then again I do have the lyrics to la mer tattooed on me.
God is an American
The Fragile is not well remembered outside of the hardcore fanbase. I also happen to think it doesn't need remastering (unlike the And All That Could Have Been: Live CD, which sounds maybe 10% as good as the soundtrack from the official Tension 2013 video). The Fragile surround mix on its own won't sell strongly, as surround music is a pretty niche market. Deluxe artwork and bonus tracks will make it attractive to the fans, and high-res digital for the audiophile crowd would be welcome. Something like the Ghosts I–IV super-deluxe is what I assume would be the prototype for a Fragile reissue.
The Fragility 2.0 tour didn't always sell out either, yet it was the most elaborately documented NIN show with official live releases in many different packages — Live CD, Still CD, cloth-bound deluxe 2-CD set, 2-DVD set (which came in two flavours: Dolby Digital or DTS), and even VHS. The Live: With Teeth tour went on for over a year and only got Beside You In Time, a single disc in one of three flavours (Blu-ray, DVD and remember HD-DVD?) — which is comparatively short shrift, considering how many people came to see those shows and how good that band was.
Last edited by botley; 01-25-2015 at 12:29 AM.
Throbbing Member
More importantly, as good as The Fragile is, why the hell should he want to look back on that time of his life? He clearly wasn't in a good head space and I doubt he is really itching to look back on it.
Captain Rustleboots
Don't facepalm me here, but did any Tension show sell out at all?
@nooneimportant he wasn't in a good space during the downward spiral either and we got a full remaster/5.1/demo and extra disk with that reissue too. And he did the remaster of PHM too and he needed someone to teach him out to kiss during that time period.
Last edited by tony.parente; 01-25-2015 at 01:11 AM.
Dis-member
LA and Toronto off the top of my head. And technically the LV shows.
EDIT: did any Fragility arena shows sell out?
Memb, Member, The Membest
Excuse me, but the fact there's one disk instead of two doesn't mean B.Y.I.T. is shorter. Both main shows are 19 tracks and B.Y.I.T. wins in the extras area
Active Member
Toronto, New York, Atlanta, LA, and Vegas did for Tension, but most of the shows that didn't sell out still had around 75% attendance, which isn't bad.
But it doesn't matter because the tour and the album were MASSIVE flops. I mean massive, big tittied bra flops. Jesus, I'm surprised that Trent is still getting work after all that.
Last edited by BRoswell; 01-25-2015 at 01:44 AM.
Dis-member
If Atlanta was a sellout it was purely because of a reconfigured arena- I recall looking at tickets when they went on sale and they had all sections open, and eventually closed the top sections. GA tix could be had from TM weeks after on sale date.
To be fair Atlanta can't even draw good crowds when their sports teams are doing good (Falcons, Braves, Hawks) despite being one of the largest U.S. markets.
Active Member
I don't think so. I remember one interview during the WT press cycle, where he was like "the next one's already done", presumbly talking about the Amnesiac to WTs Kid A. This was - I believe - before touring and the YZ recording started. So, yeah, there probably are a few songs from that era lying around somewhere in a vault of Trents.
Active Member
I had a The Prestige flashback and giggled.
Throbbing Member
My point is that he was going crazy with the drugs, alcohol, and his Grandmother's death. What I'm saying is that he probably doesn't want to look back on that too much. He even said he had a hard time dealing with AATCHB because of this exact reason.
I want a cool re-issue as much as anybody else but I just think that Trent wants to move forwards and not backwards.
Last edited by nooneimportant; 01-25-2015 at 07:13 AM.
24.24.1.1397
Though it's already been mentioned that shows did sell out, saying "Toronto sold out" is a huge understatement. Toronto sold out in a matter of seconds for the pre-sale, and regular on-sale, and people were clamoring for at least a second show in the market. A combination of years of experience sniping up my NIN ticket along with SO MUCH LUCK are the only reasons I was able to go.
Also, the space Trent was in for TDS and TF, while similarly depressing, are in no way comparable from my understanding. Not that he would shy away from TF because of it, though. Just saying, I wouldn't consider it the same thing.
Active Member
I really don't think the "did any of the shows sell out even?" argument works for the Tension tour at all. They were playing big arenas, as a solo headlining act, where aside from two dates of the tour the openers were fully instrumental acts that have very niche fanbases. Most bands will have trouble filling arenas now. Concert attendance in general is lower than it once was, and a giant venue that can fit 20,000 people isn't going to get filled most nights.
Did Lights in the Sky sell out every night? I doubt it. Does that mean NIN fans everywhere consider it a failure? Nope. And then when NIN tours nothing but clubs and amphitheaters, of course those will sell out a hell of a lot easier than an arena tour will. The fact that NIN could get booked for that big of an arena tour alone is a good sign for NIN, and the same thing happened in Europe, where attendance was maybe the lowest of the 2013/14 cycle, and really that's more due to them not being as major an act in Europe than elsewhere.
Just because some people didn't like HM and backing singers and thought one of the best living bass players was "too creepy," doesn't mean Trent shouldn't bother releasing a Tension show as part of a concert package. I sure as hell would buy it, a lot of other people here would buy it, and I'm sure plenty of the thousands of people who saw Tension and had a fantastic time would too if they heard about it. Everyone around me had an amazing time when I saw them in Orlando, and it was one of the most out-on-a-limb things Trent's ever done for a tour.
I find it funny that people will complain that he's not done an all Still-type tour or electronic tour or any other radical shift from the norm, and yet the one time he did there was a small but very loud subset of fans who just spent an entire tour complaining and then kept it going after that even.
I already own The Fragile. I'd love to own it with extra content and get a vinyl release of it that isn't an obscene amount of money, yeah, but I have the album, and I have the singles, and I have AATCHB's DVD and CD, and I've even got Still, too, along with the CRC Sessions from RITC. I feel pretty good about the amount of music I have from that time period. As much as I would love a Smashing Pumpkins-style reissue with three discs of demos that only really matter to superfans like us, I'm very content with the album I have and surrounding material. The Tension and Other Shows tour set on the other hand, I don't have, and I saw 3 shows in that year-long cycle. I'd love to add that to my collection, I'd love to watch it without songs cut, without YouTube not wanting to stream in 1080 because of a shit ISP, and I'd love to have one of the European shows, or one of the North American shows, or anything else really.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
The majority doesn't mean they're right though - as my favourite is Ghosts, and I've met people who claim Still and The Slip as their own, I think every position can be argued equally. Especially if you consider sales a factor in "best" (which you obviously shouldn't)
Memb, Member, The Membest
I just looked at nin.com for pre-H/M news and you know, right before album announcement there are Fragile journals from 1999 posted. If "he" isn't (wasn't?) too shy to showcase those, why draw conclusion that Fragile material necessarily mean "moving backward"? And then nin performed songs such as Into The Void. your point of view is understandable, though
Active Member
I keep reading about the success and overall reception of the Tension tour relateively to the presence of backup singers, but remember that that only represents the US tour, the international leg featured a regular NIN lineup...
Active Member
The Tension tour was only in the US. There was the 2013 Festival tour, Tension tour, then essentially NIN Live 2014, which was broken into Nine North Inch America Nails 2014, NIN Europe 2014, NIN/QOtSA 2014, NIN Latin America 2014, etc. Basically made "Performance 2007" sound creative, but it's a well-drawn line that the Tension lineup was the 8 piece and the 4 piece was the 2014 lineup.
Active Member
Ahem.
The gap between that first major tour and Closure was 33 months.
The gap between Closure and AATCHB was 15 months faster than before.
The gap between AATCHB and YIT was 11 months than before.
What I'm getting at is that at the rate they've been decreasing production time, this release obviously should have been finished and on sale sometime in the middle of the tour (and the next one should be on shelves before production rehearsals start). You can't expect me to believe that Trent and Rob don't have that Spaceballs technology that gets it in homes before it's even done filming.
Last edited by theimage13; 01-25-2015 at 09:54 AM.
Banned
on the 06 leg of the WT tour (clean and sober Trent) was playing 5-7 Fragile songs a night....as for not wanting to look backwards etc...TR is the one who announced a Fragile reissue and how big its going to be...He opened pandora's box
Active Member
Honestly Bill, when it comes to Reznor and Pandora's boxes, his home studio must look like the storage at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark...
Pandora's boxes, Pandora's boxes as far as the eye can see...
Dis-member
Since people discuss it so much, I've no doubt TR mentioned it- but what and when was said about a TF reissue?
(I must've missed it)
Banned
He's mentioned it 50 times....starting with this....in 2009...coming in 2010...lol
https://twitter.com/nineinchnails/status/4157519090
I was nobody. Nothing.
well i didn't get to go to tension because it didn't come anywhere near me and i still have no car,
so i want a effing gd dvd, damnit.
Active Member
You know, I'd be ok with Trent taking this year to produce some one else's music. I kinda wished that El P picked him as one of the producers for Meow the Jewels.
Administrator
Not sure what you mean by "commonly believed"... In fact, I'm completely disagree with this.
Maybe this isn't a best example I'm drawing, but look at The Smashing Pumpkins discography. Even before BC started the recent remaster/reissue campaign, there were already mountains of rough unfinished or live demos in circulation. I don't even mean the alt takes and proper demos of album songs, but unreleased songs. And now with this campaign he completely opened the floodgates, revealing even more songs.
Now take a look at, say, Radiohead. It's also a well known that they have a lot songs just shelved. But they chose not to flood the market with demo stuff. That's their choice. It's hard to believe they don't have lots of it though.
And there we have Trent Reznor, a well-known perfectionist. It's just that he's way more strict about this shit. He spent in the studio two years making an album (The Fragile), which is probably longer than Pumpkins spent on MCIS, and was joking that at some point the album could take as much as 6 CDs, and you tell me he milked these ideas out for further releases? No way. Plus he also spent year and a half making TDS (judging by his Prodigy posts where he said he hope to release it in early '93 no less) and all we got is 14 songs + 5 b-sides? There just has be more unreleased shit.
Stubby Member
I sat down and listened to HM today and heard a completely different album. I didn't hear an album with simple and boring sound, I heard an album with layers and layers of atmosphere and genius structure. I don't know what changed, but I love this album now.
Administrator
Bill, I gotta say, that was a lot of fun to retweet just now.
Dis-member
I've set my calendar for a January 2019 reminder to RT the 2013-14 "video release" tweet from NIN official account.
Whether its out or not.
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